WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.000 - Good afternoon. 00:00:03.000 --> 00:00:04.480 My name is Amber Briggle. 00:00:04.480 --> 00:00:06.680 I'm serving as the chair of the zoning board of adjustments 00:00:06.680 --> 00:00:08.320 here in the city of Denton. 00:00:08.320 --> 00:00:10.720 I hereby call this meeting of the city of Denton's 00:00:10.720 --> 00:00:13.520 ZBA zoning board of adjustments into session. 00:00:13.520 --> 00:00:18.520 The time is 3.06 and the date is May 24th, 2021. 00:00:18.520 --> 00:00:20.660 The board consists of seven regular members 00:00:20.660 --> 00:00:21.640 and two alternates. 00:00:21.640 --> 00:00:23.800 A quorum is present. 00:00:23.800 --> 00:00:25.080 Therefore, we're ready to proceed 00:00:25.080 --> 00:00:27.200 with our regularly scheduled agenda. 00:00:27.200 --> 00:00:28.760 Prior to commencing our hearing, 00:00:28.760 --> 00:00:30.400 I'd like to just review our meeting format 00:00:30.400 --> 00:00:32.720 just for the benefit of those in attendance. 00:00:32.720 --> 00:00:34.480 So the members of ZBA, 00:00:34.480 --> 00:00:36.280 we're all residents of the city of Denton. 00:00:36.280 --> 00:00:38.440 We serve voluntarily and we've been appointed 00:00:38.440 --> 00:00:40.600 to our positions by the city council. 00:00:40.600 --> 00:00:44.840 It takes six votes to reverse or modify any determination 00:00:44.840 --> 00:00:47.840 of an administrative official on appeal. 00:00:47.840 --> 00:00:50.040 Citizens wishing to speak over the phone, 00:00:50.040 --> 00:00:55.040 during the meeting may call 940-349-7800. 00:00:55.420 --> 00:01:00.420 Again, 940-349-7800. 00:01:00.420 --> 00:01:02.420 All speakers are to state their name 00:01:02.420 --> 00:01:04.720 and their address for the record. 00:01:04.720 --> 00:01:06.380 In consideration of other speakers, 00:01:06.380 --> 00:01:07.560 please keep your comments brief 00:01:07.560 --> 00:01:09.360 and only provide information that's relevant 00:01:09.360 --> 00:01:11.020 to the actual agenda items. 00:01:11.020 --> 00:01:13.120 And after the hearing and board discussion, 00:01:13.120 --> 00:01:15.080 a motion will be entertained. 00:01:15.080 --> 00:01:18.120 We will now commence with our regularly scheduled agenda 00:01:18.120 --> 00:01:20.120 and item number one on our agenda 00:01:20.120 --> 00:01:23.640 is applied to both US and Texas flags. 00:01:23.640 --> 00:01:25.920 So there's a flag behind Richard. 00:01:25.920 --> 00:01:27.560 So we'll look in that direction. 00:01:27.560 --> 00:01:33.400 - I pledge allegiance to flag of the United States of America 00:01:33.400 --> 00:01:36.040 and to the Republic for which it stands, 00:01:36.040 --> 00:01:39.680 one nation under God, indivisible, 00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:42.240 with liberty and justice for all. 00:01:42.240 --> 00:01:46.040 - And to the Texas flag, I guess behind, 00:01:46.040 --> 00:01:46.880 well, it's not behind. 00:01:46.880 --> 00:01:48.200 That's the Denton flag behind that. 00:01:48.200 --> 00:01:50.520 So imagine the Texas flag in your head. 00:01:50.520 --> 00:01:51.880 (laughing) 00:01:51.880 --> 00:01:56.560 - Congratulations to the section one state under God, 00:01:56.560 --> 00:01:57.880 one indivisible. 00:01:57.880 --> 00:02:00.080 Okay. 00:02:00.080 --> 00:02:06.120 Item two A is ZBA 21-014 considering the approval 00:02:06.120 --> 00:02:08.800 of the minutes from January 25th. 00:02:08.800 --> 00:02:13.600 Every member should have gotten a copy of those minutes. 00:02:13.600 --> 00:02:15.040 Were there any, it was really brief 00:02:15.040 --> 00:02:16.460 'cause we just kind of had a briefing. 00:02:16.460 --> 00:02:19.660 Were there any corrections to the minutes? 00:02:22.280 --> 00:02:25.600 And so hearing none, is there a motion to approve? 00:02:25.600 --> 00:02:28.360 - I will move. 00:02:28.360 --> 00:02:29.640 - Okay. - So moved. 00:02:29.640 --> 00:02:30.980 - Great, and a second? 00:02:30.980 --> 00:02:37.800 - I'll second. 00:02:37.800 --> 00:02:39.260 - Thank you from Ms. Meisner. 00:02:39.260 --> 00:02:40.960 So having received a motion and a second, 00:02:40.960 --> 00:02:42.880 is there any further discussion? 00:02:42.880 --> 00:02:46.840 Hearing none, we're gonna vote at a call 00:02:46.840 --> 00:02:48.600 on each of you individually. 00:02:48.600 --> 00:02:50.520 So I'm just gonna go on my screen. 00:02:50.520 --> 00:02:53.680 So Ms. Meisner, how do you vote? 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:54.760 - Yes. 00:02:54.760 --> 00:02:55.700 - Mr. Redwine? 00:02:55.700 --> 00:02:58.540 - Yes. 00:02:58.540 --> 00:03:00.040 - Ms. Linus? 00:03:00.040 --> 00:03:01.320 - Yes. 00:03:01.320 --> 00:03:02.800 - Ms. Lane? 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:03.640 - Yes. 00:03:03.640 --> 00:03:05.180 - And Mr. Njaka? 00:03:05.180 --> 00:03:06.020 - Yes. 00:03:06.020 --> 00:03:06.860 - And I also vote yes. 00:03:06.860 --> 00:03:09.440 So that's six in favor and zero against. 00:03:09.440 --> 00:03:10.840 So the minutes are approved. 00:03:10.840 --> 00:03:13.960 Item two B-- - Did you call on Prince? 00:03:13.960 --> 00:03:15.280 - I did. 00:03:15.280 --> 00:03:16.840 - Yeah, my last name is Njaka. 00:03:16.840 --> 00:03:18.080 You may have not known that. 00:03:18.080 --> 00:03:18.920 - Oh, gotcha. 00:03:21.480 --> 00:03:26.480 - Item two B is ZBA 21-0001. 00:03:26.480 --> 00:03:28.960 Hold a public hearing and consider an appeal 00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:32.000 of an administrative decision regarding the interpretation 00:03:32.000 --> 00:03:34.920 of the use specific standards for automotive repair major 00:03:34.920 --> 00:03:39.640 for property located at 3008 South I-35E. 00:03:39.640 --> 00:03:43.320 The appellant is Frederick Enterprises, LLC. 00:03:43.320 --> 00:03:45.440 Now I will swear in the witnesses for today's hearing. 00:03:45.440 --> 00:03:48.440 So all witnesses who will provide testimony 00:03:48.440 --> 00:03:51.640 of today's hearing, please turn on your camera 00:03:51.640 --> 00:03:53.040 and raise your right hand. 00:03:53.040 --> 00:03:55.720 Do they have cameras, maybe? 00:03:55.720 --> 00:03:58.240 - Chair, if I can interject real quick. 00:03:58.240 --> 00:04:00.840 If Billy can let the applicant know, 00:04:00.840 --> 00:04:05.840 I think they are going to be speaking in or presenting. 00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:14.000 - They're in the meeting and both on phone. 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:17.200 - Both on phone, so I'm going to assume 00:04:17.200 --> 00:04:18.960 that their right hands are raised. 00:04:18.960 --> 00:04:22.800 Mr. Hanna and Mr. Sargent, are you, 00:04:22.800 --> 00:04:25.320 you are speaking and swearing you both in? 00:04:25.320 --> 00:04:29.680 - Yes, I am, I'm here. 00:04:29.680 --> 00:04:30.880 Great, this is Gray Hanna. 00:04:30.880 --> 00:04:32.200 Right hand is raised. 00:04:32.200 --> 00:04:34.000 - Great, great. - This is Trey Sargent. 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:35.440 My hand is raised as well. 00:04:35.440 --> 00:04:36.280 - Oh, great, thank you. 00:04:36.280 --> 00:04:39.960 Okay, under penalty of perjury, do you swear or affirm 00:04:39.960 --> 00:04:42.880 that any testimony or information you provide 00:04:42.880 --> 00:04:45.440 or any statement you make before this board is complete, 00:04:45.440 --> 00:04:48.120 true and correct to the best of your knowledge and ability? 00:04:48.120 --> 00:04:50.560 If so, please answer, I do. 00:04:50.560 --> 00:04:51.840 - I do. 00:04:51.840 --> 00:04:52.680 - I do. 00:04:52.680 --> 00:04:53.680 - Great, thank you. 00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:57.480 Okay, so today we're talking about whether to affirm, 00:04:57.480 --> 00:05:01.120 reverse, and hold or impart or amend or modify a decision 00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:04.680 or interpretation made by the administrative official. 00:05:04.680 --> 00:05:07.040 There's information in the backup agenda. 00:05:07.040 --> 00:05:09.080 I'm not going to go through the whole thing on the script, 00:05:09.080 --> 00:05:11.280 but if you're curious to see what the DDC says 00:05:11.280 --> 00:05:13.320 and what the different definitions are, 00:05:13.320 --> 00:05:16.080 you can find that in the backup agenda 00:05:16.080 --> 00:05:18.240 on the City of Denton website. 00:05:18.240 --> 00:05:20.560 But I will go through how the hearing is gonna go, 00:05:20.560 --> 00:05:22.040 because this is very important 00:05:22.040 --> 00:05:23.800 and I wanna make sure everyone understands what's going on. 00:05:23.800 --> 00:05:25.840 So bear with me, it's a little bit long. 00:05:25.840 --> 00:05:27.800 So the hearing procedure will be as follows. 00:05:27.800 --> 00:05:31.760 Number one, I'm gonna open the public hearing in a second. 00:05:31.760 --> 00:05:34.960 Two, the city staff presents testimony, evidence, 00:05:34.960 --> 00:05:37.000 and arguments to support the administrative official's 00:05:37.000 --> 00:05:39.280 decision with potential questions 00:05:39.280 --> 00:05:42.080 of the city staff from the board. 00:05:42.080 --> 00:05:45.360 Three, the applicant presents testimony, evidence, 00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:48.280 and arguments to support the appeal with potential questions 00:05:48.280 --> 00:05:50.720 of the applicant from the board. 00:05:50.720 --> 00:05:54.600 Four, members of the public may provide comments 00:05:54.600 --> 00:05:57.920 with potential questions of speakers from the board. 00:05:57.920 --> 00:06:00.560 Five, city staff will be given an opportunity 00:06:00.560 --> 00:06:01.760 to make rebuttal comments 00:06:01.760 --> 00:06:03.920 with potential questions from the board. 00:06:03.920 --> 00:06:06.920 Six, the applicant will be given an opportunity 00:06:06.920 --> 00:06:09.680 to make rebuttal comments with potential questions 00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:10.520 from the board. 00:06:10.520 --> 00:06:13.920 Seven, members of the public who previously provided input 00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:16.240 will have the opportunity to make a rebuttal 00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:19.120 with potential questions again from the board. 00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:21.720 Eight, the city staff and/or the applicants 00:06:21.720 --> 00:06:24.640 will answer any further questions of the board. 00:06:24.640 --> 00:06:27.880 Nine, upon conclusion of this testimony, 00:06:27.880 --> 00:06:31.080 evidence and arguments and any questions and answers. 00:06:31.080 --> 00:06:32.280 And when the chair has determined 00:06:32.280 --> 00:06:34.880 that the board has adequate information to make a decision, 00:06:34.880 --> 00:06:37.360 the chair will close the public hearing. 00:06:37.360 --> 00:06:39.800 And then 10, I'm gonna open the next agenda item 00:06:39.800 --> 00:06:42.200 to deliberate and decide the appeal. 00:06:42.200 --> 00:06:44.360 So upon the completion of the board's deliberation, 00:06:44.360 --> 00:06:46.800 the board shall render an unbiased decision 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:49.200 based on the record and support by reasons 00:06:49.200 --> 00:06:51.200 and findings of facts. 00:06:51.200 --> 00:06:53.000 Is that all clear as mud? 00:06:53.000 --> 00:06:54.160 Fantastic, good, okay. 00:06:54.160 --> 00:06:56.960 And considering the appeal, 00:06:56.960 --> 00:06:59.320 this board shall consider the facts and information 00:06:59.320 --> 00:07:02.040 in the administrative officials letter interpretation, 00:07:02.040 --> 00:07:04.680 the applicant's appeal letter and testimony 00:07:04.680 --> 00:07:05.640 presented in today's hearing. 00:07:05.640 --> 00:07:08.560 A lot of this is also found in the backup agenda, 00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:10.080 so I'm excited to kind of hear it 00:07:10.080 --> 00:07:12.160 from people actually today. 00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:14.680 And our consideration and evaluation of the requirements 00:07:14.680 --> 00:07:16.840 of the applicable standards from the DVC. 00:07:16.840 --> 00:07:21.840 So I now open the hearing at 3.13 p.m. 00:07:21.840 --> 00:07:25.680 First up is will the city please present testimony, 00:07:25.680 --> 00:07:27.240 evidence and arguments to support 00:07:27.240 --> 00:07:29.160 the administrative officials' decision? 00:07:29.160 --> 00:07:31.720 - Great, thank you, chair. 00:07:31.720 --> 00:07:35.480 I'm gonna have Julie White make the presentation for staff. 00:07:36.880 --> 00:07:38.920 Good evening, let me share my screen 00:07:38.920 --> 00:07:43.800 and we will go through the presentation. 00:07:43.800 --> 00:07:49.200 All right, so this is ZVA 21-0001, 00:07:49.200 --> 00:07:51.440 Automotive Repair Administrative Appeal. 00:07:51.440 --> 00:07:56.240 Before we get into staff's interpretation 00:07:56.240 --> 00:07:58.680 and the appeal information, 00:07:58.680 --> 00:08:00.400 I wanna talk a little bit of background 00:08:00.400 --> 00:08:02.840 about how this came to the fore. 00:08:02.840 --> 00:08:06.760 So the subject property is located along I-35, 00:08:06.760 --> 00:08:08.760 the property is outlined there in yellow. 00:08:08.760 --> 00:08:10.880 It's about 1.98 acres. 00:08:10.880 --> 00:08:13.600 It has the zoning of Highway Corridor District. 00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:17.480 Earlier this year, the applicant approached the city 00:08:17.480 --> 00:08:19.840 and requested a pre-application conference. 00:08:19.840 --> 00:08:22.000 That is a meeting that the city hails 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:25.400 with potential applicants to talk about processes 00:08:25.400 --> 00:08:27.840 related to the development of a site 00:08:27.840 --> 00:08:32.320 and provide comments and information 00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:35.680 regarding their proposed use and development. 00:08:35.680 --> 00:08:40.280 In this instance, they requested information 00:08:40.280 --> 00:08:42.480 regarding the feasibility of redeveloping 00:08:42.480 --> 00:08:44.000 an existing retail site 00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:47.600 with an automotive repair major use. 00:08:47.600 --> 00:08:51.360 As the 2019 DDC has use-specific standards 00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:52.440 for that proposed use, 00:08:52.440 --> 00:08:54.760 it is permitted in Highway Corridor 00:08:54.760 --> 00:08:56.400 with those use-specific standards, 00:08:56.400 --> 00:08:57.680 and there are three of them. 00:08:57.680 --> 00:08:59.880 First, all repairs, services, and storage 00:08:59.880 --> 00:09:03.560 shall be conducted within an entirely enclosed structure. 00:09:03.560 --> 00:09:06.840 Second, open storage of wrecked or inoperable cars, 00:09:06.840 --> 00:09:08.520 discarded tires, auto parts, 00:09:08.520 --> 00:09:11.200 or other similar materials shall be prohibited. 00:09:11.200 --> 00:09:14.840 And then finally, sales of vehicles shall be prohibited. 00:09:14.840 --> 00:09:16.480 At that pre-application conference, 00:09:16.480 --> 00:09:20.960 staff provided information that cars awaiting service 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:24.440 for this use would constitute open storage 00:09:24.440 --> 00:09:28.480 and must be kept within an entirely enclosed structure. 00:09:28.480 --> 00:09:31.720 Based upon that feedback, 00:09:31.720 --> 00:09:36.320 the applicant requested a formal written interpretation 00:09:36.320 --> 00:09:38.160 from city staff. 00:09:38.160 --> 00:09:43.360 This is a process that the 2019 Development Code has. 00:09:43.360 --> 00:09:46.400 It's in subsection 2.8.6. 00:09:46.400 --> 00:09:49.560 And it provides for a uniform mechanism 00:09:49.560 --> 00:09:52.560 for rendering formal interpretations of the DDC. 00:09:52.560 --> 00:09:56.280 The director is responsible for these interpretations, 00:09:56.280 --> 00:09:57.880 and it can be related to the zoning 00:09:57.880 --> 00:10:01.800 subdivision provisions, the text of the DDC. 00:10:01.800 --> 00:10:04.120 And it includes, but not limited to, 00:10:04.120 --> 00:10:09.080 interpretations as to which is the stricter 00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:11.640 and thus controlling provision in case of conflict 00:10:11.640 --> 00:10:13.280 with this DDC and other provisions 00:10:13.280 --> 00:10:15.280 of the Municipal Code of Ordinances, 00:10:15.280 --> 00:10:18.680 interpretations of compliance with a condition of approval, 00:10:18.680 --> 00:10:22.800 interpretations of whether an unspecified use falls 00:10:22.800 --> 00:10:25.120 within a use classification, use category, 00:10:25.120 --> 00:10:27.960 or use type allowed in a zoning district, 00:10:27.960 --> 00:10:31.560 and then to interpretations of a zoning district boundary. 00:10:31.560 --> 00:10:34.960 So those are the potential interpretations 00:10:34.960 --> 00:10:36.000 that the director could make, 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:37.640 but it's not limited to those. 00:10:37.640 --> 00:10:42.640 Following that process, 00:10:42.640 --> 00:10:46.000 the Denton Development Code provides, 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:49.520 there are considerations that the director 00:10:49.520 --> 00:10:54.200 has to keep in mind when making that interpretation. 00:10:54.200 --> 00:10:56.560 And those are listed in the Denton Development Code 00:10:56.560 --> 00:10:58.080 and in your backup material. 00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:00.320 They must follow the rules of construction. 00:11:00.320 --> 00:11:03.240 Those rules of construction are in sub-chapter nine 00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:04.640 of the Denton Development Code, 00:11:04.640 --> 00:11:06.760 and that words and phrases shall be construed 00:11:06.760 --> 00:11:09.720 according to the common and approved usage of the language, 00:11:09.720 --> 00:11:12.400 but technical words and phrases and such others 00:11:12.400 --> 00:11:16.440 may have acquired a peculiar and appropriate meeting in law 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:19.320 and shall be construed and understood 00:11:19.320 --> 00:11:20.600 according to that meeting. 00:11:20.600 --> 00:11:22.400 So those are those rules of construction 00:11:22.400 --> 00:11:24.080 that have to be considered. 00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:27.160 And then those considerations that the director 00:11:27.160 --> 00:11:29.680 has to follow when making an interpretation 00:11:29.680 --> 00:11:31.960 are first, the clear and plain meaning 00:11:31.960 --> 00:11:33.480 of the provisions wording. 00:11:33.480 --> 00:11:37.120 Second, the intended purpose of the provision. 00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:41.440 Third, the intent to give every provision meaning. 00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:44.520 Fourth, the general purposes served by the DDC. 00:11:44.520 --> 00:11:48.360 And then finally, consistency with the comprehensive plan. 00:11:48.360 --> 00:11:49.720 We're gonna go over these again, 00:11:49.720 --> 00:11:51.280 so you don't have to commit those to memory. 00:11:51.280 --> 00:11:52.800 We'll talk through them again. 00:11:52.800 --> 00:11:58.040 So first of all, we are gonna talk through 00:11:58.040 --> 00:12:00.640 those considerations, but I first wanna talk about 00:12:00.640 --> 00:12:05.160 that intent of these use-specific standards. 00:12:05.160 --> 00:12:08.040 So when looking at that legislative intent, 00:12:08.040 --> 00:12:11.880 we first went back to the 2002 Denton Development Code. 00:12:11.880 --> 00:12:16.840 The use was a little different under the 2002 DDC, 00:12:16.840 --> 00:12:17.960 as was the zoning. 00:12:17.960 --> 00:12:21.840 The subject property had a zoning designation of RCR1. 00:12:21.840 --> 00:12:24.520 Vehicle repair was not a permitted use 00:12:24.520 --> 00:12:25.840 in that zoning district. 00:12:25.840 --> 00:12:30.080 So there were also no use-specific standards related to it. 00:12:30.080 --> 00:12:32.320 Vehicle repair was defined as a business 00:12:32.320 --> 00:12:34.640 providing vehicle repair or other body work 00:12:34.640 --> 00:12:35.840 to the motoring public. 00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:38.600 So you can see those pullouts 00:12:38.600 --> 00:12:40.800 for the 2002 Denton Development Code 00:12:40.800 --> 00:12:42.800 and then that zoning map. 00:12:44.840 --> 00:12:48.320 In 2010, we've got that property maintenance code 00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:52.280 that also speaks to outdoor storage. 00:12:52.280 --> 00:12:54.520 Two provisions I wanna highlight, 00:12:54.520 --> 00:12:58.880 and this is in the Code of Ordinances, section 17-34. 00:12:58.880 --> 00:13:04.480 And section A of that talks about the impacts, 00:13:04.480 --> 00:13:08.800 those visual impacts for inoperable vehicles 00:13:08.800 --> 00:13:10.840 being stored outside. 00:13:10.840 --> 00:13:13.640 It also talks about that they should be screened 00:13:13.640 --> 00:13:15.920 from the right of way or adjacent property 00:13:15.920 --> 00:13:18.800 by means of either a solid opaque fence 00:13:18.800 --> 00:13:21.320 or shall be enclosed within a building. 00:13:21.320 --> 00:13:28.360 Next, there was the 2019 Denton Development Code. 00:13:28.360 --> 00:13:31.920 The property was rezoned to Highway Commercial District 00:13:31.920 --> 00:13:36.920 and we also got a new use-specific standards 00:13:36.920 --> 00:13:41.920 related to automotive repair shop major. 00:13:43.400 --> 00:13:47.480 In that, we got those use-specific standards 00:13:47.480 --> 00:13:50.120 that we talked about, that the all repairs and storage 00:13:50.120 --> 00:13:52.680 should be conducted within an enclosed structure, 00:13:52.680 --> 00:13:56.800 the open storage of wrecked or inoperable cars is prohibited 00:13:56.800 --> 00:13:59.320 and then sales of vehicles shall be prohibited. 00:13:59.320 --> 00:14:04.320 So the City Council went further on that, 00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:09.520 the screening of those inoperable cars 00:14:09.520 --> 00:14:13.560 to be more specific within the use-specific standards 00:14:13.560 --> 00:14:15.200 in the 2019. 00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:18.840 So in the 2002, it wasn't permitted. 00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:21.240 Then we had the Code of Ordinances, 00:14:21.240 --> 00:14:22.920 we talked about it needed to be screened 00:14:22.920 --> 00:14:27.320 and then the City Council further clarified in 2019 00:14:27.320 --> 00:14:29.840 that that open storage was prohibited. 00:14:29.840 --> 00:14:35.840 So based upon staff's analysis, 00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:38.360 we did provide a formal interpretation 00:14:38.360 --> 00:14:40.840 of those use-specific standards to the applicant. 00:14:40.840 --> 00:14:44.280 We provided them to them on March 25th of this year. 00:14:44.280 --> 00:14:47.480 And the three items on your screen 00:14:47.480 --> 00:14:49.960 are those interpretation. 00:14:49.960 --> 00:14:52.000 First, that automobiles awaiting repairs 00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:55.960 for less than 24 hours do not constitute storage. 00:14:55.960 --> 00:14:58.440 Second, any vehicles intended for service 00:14:58.440 --> 00:15:01.400 and stored outside of a structure for more than 24 hours 00:15:01.400 --> 00:15:04.160 are classified as open storage and must be contained 00:15:04.160 --> 00:15:06.600 within an entirely enclosed structure 00:15:06.600 --> 00:15:09.360 in accordance with those use-specific standards. 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:11.120 And then third, while outdoor storage 00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:13.680 may be generally permitted as an accessory use 00:15:13.680 --> 00:15:16.280 under the provisions of the Zoning District, 00:15:16.280 --> 00:15:19.000 the use-specific standards for the primary use 00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:21.920 of automotive repair major prohibit outdoor storage 00:15:21.920 --> 00:15:24.880 of any elements related to the use. 00:15:24.880 --> 00:15:28.720 So now we're gonna go over those considerations 00:15:28.720 --> 00:15:30.920 related to that formal interpretation 00:15:30.920 --> 00:15:34.960 and just kind of talk through staff's analysis of that. 00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:36.800 So the first one, if you recall, 00:15:36.800 --> 00:15:39.920 the clear and plain meaning of the provisions wording 00:15:39.920 --> 00:15:43.640 as defined by the meaning and significance given 00:15:43.640 --> 00:15:45.960 specific terms used in the provision 00:15:45.960 --> 00:15:48.480 as established in sub-chapter nine definitions 00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:51.800 and by the common and accepted usage of that term. 00:15:51.800 --> 00:15:54.600 And remember, we're using that construction 00:15:54.600 --> 00:15:56.280 that we talked about. 00:15:56.280 --> 00:15:59.040 So first of all, the use-specific standard number one, 00:15:59.040 --> 00:16:01.080 that all repair services and storage 00:16:01.080 --> 00:16:04.480 shall be conducted within an entirely enclosed structure. 00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:06.840 The clear and plain meaning stipulates 00:16:06.840 --> 00:16:09.960 that all activities and materials associated with the use 00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:12.680 must be maintained within a structure 00:16:12.680 --> 00:16:14.320 with four walls and a roof. 00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:16.720 The wording does not provide special exceptions 00:16:16.720 --> 00:16:20.880 or carve-outs for any specific activities or materials. 00:16:20.880 --> 00:16:23.000 Second, use-specific standard two, 00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:25.480 open storage of wrecked or inoperable cars, 00:16:25.480 --> 00:16:29.080 discarded tires, auto parts or other similar materials 00:16:29.080 --> 00:16:30.520 shall be prohibited. 00:16:30.520 --> 00:16:32.640 This specifies items which are prohibited 00:16:32.640 --> 00:16:35.200 from being stored in an open manner. 00:16:35.200 --> 00:16:38.880 Open storage of wrecked or inoperable cars 00:16:38.880 --> 00:16:41.160 or vehicles is not permitted. 00:16:41.160 --> 00:16:43.160 I wanna go a little deeper into both of these 00:16:43.160 --> 00:16:44.960 in the next couple of slides. 00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:47.760 So first, I wanna talk about the meaning 00:16:47.760 --> 00:16:49.800 of open or open storage. 00:16:49.800 --> 00:16:55.320 So the DDC does not define open storage. 00:16:55.320 --> 00:16:59.400 So what we're gonna look at is those standard definitions 00:16:59.400 --> 00:17:01.960 for open or open storage and then talk about 00:17:01.960 --> 00:17:05.400 how that also relates to other DDC defined terms. 00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:08.040 So first of all, we looked at the Cambridge Dictionary. 00:17:08.040 --> 00:17:11.520 It defines open is not closed in or covered. 00:17:11.520 --> 00:17:15.000 A Webster Dictionary defines open is not covered 00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:17.480 with a roof, with a top roof or lid. 00:17:17.480 --> 00:17:20.680 It indicates the clear meaning prohibits any storage 00:17:20.680 --> 00:17:23.720 of items outside of a structure with a wall, 00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:24.840 with a roof or walls. 00:17:24.840 --> 00:17:27.840 So just based upon that clear meaning of open, 00:17:28.840 --> 00:17:33.320 it indicates to staff that those use specific standards 00:17:33.320 --> 00:17:35.840 would require four walls and a roof 00:17:35.840 --> 00:17:38.200 in order to meet the requirements. 00:17:38.200 --> 00:17:42.840 We also looked at those related DDC defined terms, 00:17:42.840 --> 00:17:45.800 first outdoor storage and then second outside storage. 00:17:45.800 --> 00:17:48.800 And those are in sub chapter nine of the 2019 DDC. 00:17:48.800 --> 00:17:53.760 And we looked to those to provide a basis 00:17:53.760 --> 00:17:56.120 for that specific time limitation 00:17:58.440 --> 00:18:01.280 because what we've got is that 24 hours 00:18:01.280 --> 00:18:02.320 in that interpretation. 00:18:02.320 --> 00:18:05.040 That's really when an item transitions to that storage. 00:18:05.040 --> 00:18:07.280 So it really sort of creates the difference 00:18:07.280 --> 00:18:10.720 between somebody may be getting an oil change who's there 00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:14.320 and will be parked on a very short period of time. 00:18:14.320 --> 00:18:19.320 And then those vehicles which are there for long-term repair. 00:18:19.320 --> 00:18:25.240 So outdoor storage as a principal use a property or area 00:18:25.240 --> 00:18:28.160 used for the long-term more than 24 hours storage 00:18:28.160 --> 00:18:32.680 of materials, merchandise products, stock supplies, 00:18:32.680 --> 00:18:35.560 machines, operable vehicles, equipment, 00:18:35.560 --> 00:18:38.600 manufacturing materials or other items not kept 00:18:38.600 --> 00:18:41.960 within a structure having at least four walls and a roof. 00:18:41.960 --> 00:18:44.800 New or used automobile sales and leasing display 00:18:44.800 --> 00:18:48.560 and parking and other outdoor sales and display areas 00:18:48.560 --> 00:18:51.880 shall not be defined as outdoor storage, outside storage. 00:18:51.880 --> 00:18:55.280 So once again, that gives that 24 hour limitation. 00:18:55.280 --> 00:18:58.360 And it also distinguishes between parking 00:18:58.360 --> 00:19:01.120 and those vehicles that are there for the service. 00:19:01.120 --> 00:19:03.560 And then second outdoors, outside storage, 00:19:03.560 --> 00:19:05.840 the storage of objects, items, products 00:19:05.840 --> 00:19:08.480 or other materials outside an enclosed building 00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:10.880 and not intended for immediate sale. 00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:15.600 The second term I wanna talk about 00:19:15.600 --> 00:19:17.640 is that wrecked or inoperable cars. 00:19:17.640 --> 00:19:19.800 What does that mean? 00:19:19.800 --> 00:19:22.440 So given the nature of automotive repair major 00:19:22.440 --> 00:19:25.680 which is primarily engaged in providing vehicle repair, 00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:28.360 bodywork, mechanical servicing and or painting, 00:19:28.360 --> 00:19:30.440 it is reasonable to construe 00:19:30.440 --> 00:19:33.360 that except for employees vehicles and or those 00:19:33.360 --> 00:19:36.160 which are awaiting immediate maintenance 00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:38.520 such as oil changes or tire replacement, 00:19:38.520 --> 00:19:42.040 vehicles parked on site are damaged and or inoperable, 00:19:42.040 --> 00:19:44.520 meaning the common accepted usage 00:19:44.520 --> 00:19:46.000 of wrecked or inoperable car. 00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:50.040 So if a car is there and is not for an employee 00:19:50.040 --> 00:19:52.400 or somebody short-term visiting, 00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:54.480 it really does meet that definition 00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:56.000 of wrecked or inoperable cars 00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:57.880 because they're there for repair. 00:19:57.880 --> 00:20:03.160 Number two, consideration. 00:20:03.160 --> 00:20:04.800 The intended purpose of the provision 00:20:04.800 --> 00:20:07.160 as indicated by purpose statements, 00:20:07.160 --> 00:20:08.960 its context and consistency 00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:11.880 with surrounding related provisions 00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:14.600 and any legislative history to its adoption. 00:20:14.600 --> 00:20:18.120 This is goes into that legislative history 00:20:18.120 --> 00:20:21.240 that we talked about at the beginning of the presentation, 00:20:21.240 --> 00:20:25.800 how vehicle repair has been treated in this general area 00:20:25.800 --> 00:20:31.320 from 2002 until now and then also how the city 00:20:31.320 --> 00:20:36.320 has kind of reviewed that storage of wrecked cars on site 00:20:36.320 --> 00:20:38.520 or inoperable cars. 00:20:38.520 --> 00:20:41.760 Additionally, the purpose of the standards 00:20:41.760 --> 00:20:44.840 is to ensure appropriate design and intensity for the use. 00:20:44.840 --> 00:20:48.160 So just broadly, our use specific standards 00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:50.560 are really written to ensure that a use 00:20:50.560 --> 00:20:53.560 would be appropriate in any given area. 00:20:53.560 --> 00:20:56.240 In this instance, that vehicle repair 00:20:56.240 --> 00:21:00.720 does require those use specific standards in HC district. 00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:05.720 And so it is the intent of that use specific standard 00:21:05.720 --> 00:21:10.200 to make sure that it is appropriate design 00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:12.160 for that zoning district. 00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:15.600 The DDC distinguishes automobile related uses 00:21:15.600 --> 00:21:18.720 which require vehicle storage within an enclosed structure 00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:20.560 from automobile related uses 00:21:20.560 --> 00:21:23.040 that allow outdoor vehicle storage. 00:21:23.040 --> 00:21:25.640 So for instance, automobile fuel sales, 00:21:25.640 --> 00:21:27.880 automotive repair shop minor, 00:21:27.880 --> 00:21:30.560 those also prohibit open storage of wrecked 00:21:30.560 --> 00:21:32.040 or inoperable cars. 00:21:32.040 --> 00:21:34.440 However, automotive wrecking service, 00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:38.080 impound lot, junkyard and salvage yard 00:21:38.080 --> 00:21:41.280 uses authorized stored vehicles to be outside 00:21:41.280 --> 00:21:42.960 if they are screened from public view. 00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:45.680 So the code makes that distinction 00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:50.680 between that vehicle repair 00:21:50.680 --> 00:21:54.720 and then those impound junkyard or salvage yard. 00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:57.080 So they do treat those differently. 00:21:57.080 --> 00:22:00.320 The definition of outdoor storage, 00:22:00.320 --> 00:22:03.800 new or used automobile sales and leasing display 00:22:03.800 --> 00:22:06.840 and parking are not considered outside storage. 00:22:06.840 --> 00:22:10.400 And then because automotive repair major use 00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:13.520 does not authorize outdoor screening of stored vehicles 00:22:13.520 --> 00:22:17.160 and is not a new or used automobile sales 00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:18.440 and lease display, 00:22:18.440 --> 00:22:20.800 the DDC requires the storage of vehicles 00:22:20.800 --> 00:22:22.920 to be within an enclosed structure. 00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:32.040 Additionally, under that 2002 DDC automotive repair, 00:22:32.040 --> 00:22:35.640 that this type of use was classified as vehicle repair 00:22:35.640 --> 00:22:40.640 and it was permitted in more intense type 00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:44.000 of zoning districts, 00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:46.480 consider community mixed use employment, 00:22:46.480 --> 00:22:49.920 a regional center commercial downtown employment center, 00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:52.120 commercial and employment and center industrial 00:22:52.120 --> 00:22:53.840 and then our industrial centers. 00:22:53.840 --> 00:22:58.480 And then city council through the adoption of the 2019 DDC 00:22:58.480 --> 00:23:00.920 sought to establish updated standards 00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:03.160 consistent with the comprehensive plan 00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:05.600 and that's where these new use specific standards 00:23:05.600 --> 00:23:08.800 came in to implement that high quality urban design 00:23:08.800 --> 00:23:11.400 as envisioned by the Denton plan 2030. 00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:15.120 Number three, consideration, 00:23:15.120 --> 00:23:17.680 the intent to give every provision meaning. 00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:19.560 The interpretation provides clarity 00:23:19.560 --> 00:23:22.680 as to how to apply automotive repair major 00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:26.840 use specific standards related to storage and open storage. 00:23:26.840 --> 00:23:31.840 So this interpretation does provide that more full explanation 00:23:35.240 --> 00:23:38.360 of those requirements. 00:23:38.360 --> 00:23:41.120 And then the general purposes served by this DDC 00:23:41.120 --> 00:23:44.880 is set forth in section 1.2 purpose. 00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:49.880 So purpose 1.2.4 is to improve the city's appearance 00:23:49.880 --> 00:23:56.400 and purpose 1.2.7 encourage the appropriate use 00:23:56.400 --> 00:23:59.320 of land, buildings and structure. 00:23:59.320 --> 00:24:01.320 These use specific standards, 00:24:01.320 --> 00:24:03.040 not only for this particular use, 00:24:03.040 --> 00:24:06.120 but more broadly how use specific standards 00:24:06.120 --> 00:24:08.280 are used within the city of Denton 00:24:08.280 --> 00:24:10.240 are to further these purposes 00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:12.880 outlined in the Denton development code. 00:24:12.880 --> 00:24:15.960 And then finally, consistency with the comprehensive plan. 00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:18.800 The interpretation ensures high quality urban design 00:24:18.800 --> 00:24:21.080 as envisioned by that comprehensive plan. 00:24:21.080 --> 00:24:26.080 So it does require that any cars awaiting repair 00:24:26.080 --> 00:24:32.280 kept over 24 hours on the site 00:24:32.280 --> 00:24:35.120 would have to be stored within an enclosed structure 00:24:35.120 --> 00:24:40.120 to ensure any visual impacts related to those cars 00:24:40.120 --> 00:24:45.960 would be muted and mitigated with that enclosed structure. 00:24:45.960 --> 00:24:50.520 So finally, just wanted to reiterate again 00:24:50.520 --> 00:24:55.400 that staff interpretation of those use specific standards 00:24:55.400 --> 00:24:58.920 and sub chapter five of the Denton development code. 00:24:58.920 --> 00:25:02.720 And really the purpose of this is to clarify 00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:05.120 what is open storage. 00:25:05.120 --> 00:25:09.200 First, automobiles awaiting repairs for less than 24 hours 00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:11.600 do not constitute storage. 00:25:11.600 --> 00:25:13.440 Any vehicles intended for service 00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:16.560 and stored outside of a structure for more than 24 hours 00:25:16.560 --> 00:25:19.120 are classified as open storage 00:25:19.120 --> 00:25:22.240 and must be contained within an entirely enclosed structure 00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:25.040 in accordance with the use specific standards. 00:25:25.040 --> 00:25:27.440 And then while outdoor storage may be generally permitted 00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:31.080 as an accessory use in the HC zoning district, 00:25:31.080 --> 00:25:34.280 the use specific standards of that vehicle, 00:25:34.280 --> 00:25:38.360 automotive repair shop major prohibit outdoor storage 00:25:38.360 --> 00:25:40.840 of any elements related to the use. 00:25:40.840 --> 00:25:42.280 Those really control. 00:25:42.280 --> 00:25:49.600 So the review, the administrative appeal 00:25:49.600 --> 00:25:51.240 is really a two step process. 00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:54.880 So this first step is this public hearing process. 00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:59.880 Once that's closed, it will then open that second agenda item 00:25:59.880 --> 00:26:04.120 and that's where that decision would be made. 00:26:04.120 --> 00:26:06.600 And then we do have criteria for approval 00:26:06.600 --> 00:26:09.040 for an administrative appeal. 00:26:09.040 --> 00:26:12.960 They are in DDC section 2.8.3D. 00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:15.880 The first is facts stated in the application 00:26:15.880 --> 00:26:19.440 as presented by the appellant and or the director. 00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:21.920 And then two, the requirements and the intent 00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:24.520 of the applicable standards from this DDC 00:26:24.520 --> 00:26:27.360 compared to the written decision that is being appealed. 00:26:27.360 --> 00:26:29.160 And that concludes my presentation 00:26:29.160 --> 00:26:31.720 and I'll be happy to answer any questions. 00:26:31.720 --> 00:26:38.560 - Does anyone have any questions for Ms. Wyatt? 00:26:38.560 --> 00:26:42.720 - Let me stop sharing my screen. 00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:46.520 Oh. 00:26:46.520 --> 00:26:52.760 So no questions. 00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:56.440 Ms. Wyatt, I think you did a great job 00:26:56.440 --> 00:26:58.480 with those, the definitions just walk us 00:26:58.480 --> 00:26:59.920 right on through the DDC. 00:26:59.920 --> 00:27:02.560 I learned a lot today, so thank you. 00:27:02.560 --> 00:27:05.480 So there's no questions from Ms. Wyatt, 00:27:05.480 --> 00:27:08.480 then I believe it's the appellant's turn 00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:11.520 to present their testimony, evidence and arguments. 00:27:11.520 --> 00:27:12.680 Do we have a screen share 00:27:12.680 --> 00:27:14.600 so we can see what y'all are talking about too? 00:27:14.600 --> 00:27:16.440 'Cause I really wish there were more pictures 00:27:16.440 --> 00:27:18.440 in the backup, so I could have seen it. 00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:22.360 - The applicant has a presentation 00:27:22.360 --> 00:27:25.080 and I will be running through as they talk through it. 00:27:25.080 --> 00:27:27.040 So we're gonna work together. 00:27:27.040 --> 00:27:29.400 - All right, y'all take it away. 00:27:29.400 --> 00:27:32.040 - Thanks, this is Trey Sargent. 00:27:32.040 --> 00:27:37.040 My address is 512 West Hickory, Denton, Texas, 76201. 00:27:37.040 --> 00:27:40.240 I'm an attorney, I represent the appellant. 00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:41.840 And first of all, I wanna thank you 00:27:41.840 --> 00:27:43.240 for taking time out of your afternoon. 00:27:43.240 --> 00:27:44.880 I know it's a business day 00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:46.720 and that might not have been the most convenient thing, 00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:49.800 but both myself and my client appreciate your time 00:27:49.800 --> 00:27:50.640 this afternoon. 00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:54.720 Julie's gonna drive on the presentation, 00:27:54.720 --> 00:27:57.080 but as I think you all are aware, 00:27:57.080 --> 00:28:00.920 there's quite a bit of delay between the video 00:28:00.920 --> 00:28:04.320 that I'll be able to see whenever I'm speaking with you. 00:28:04.320 --> 00:28:07.520 So I just ask for your patience on that front. 00:28:07.520 --> 00:28:09.960 It's about 45 seconds behind, I think. 00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:12.080 So I'm gonna do my best to keep track 00:28:12.080 --> 00:28:14.080 with my own presentation here. 00:28:14.080 --> 00:28:16.520 Julie, can you let me know whether or not 00:28:16.520 --> 00:28:17.680 my first slide is up? 00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:21.280 - Your title slide is up. 00:28:21.280 --> 00:28:24.040 - Okay, great, would you go ahead and go on to the next one? 00:28:24.040 --> 00:28:28.520 And Julie, would you mind letting me know 00:28:28.520 --> 00:28:29.680 once you've done that? 00:28:29.680 --> 00:28:36.280 - It's there. 00:28:36.280 --> 00:28:37.200 - Okay, thank you. 00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:41.200 So this is sort of a concept plan, 00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:44.120 an elevation frontage for what my clients would like 00:28:44.120 --> 00:28:46.280 to put in at this property. 00:28:46.280 --> 00:28:50.160 Say, paint, body shop, service king collision repair, 00:28:51.680 --> 00:28:53.200 the company is well established. 00:28:53.200 --> 00:28:55.880 They've got several hundred locations. 00:28:55.880 --> 00:28:59.560 And I think an important thing to consider here 00:28:59.560 --> 00:29:02.360 at the outset is the type of work that's done 00:29:02.360 --> 00:29:04.080 at one of these locations. 00:29:04.080 --> 00:29:06.040 This is not a wrecking yard. 00:29:06.040 --> 00:29:11.040 This is not tearing down vehicles to be parted out 00:29:11.040 --> 00:29:13.760 for salvage purposes. 00:29:13.760 --> 00:29:15.480 There's no dismantling. 00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:19.800 The vehicles that are serviced at locations like this 00:29:19.800 --> 00:29:21.000 have been a fender bender. 00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:23.400 They've backed into a tree. 00:29:23.400 --> 00:29:29.360 It's not a full tear down type of job. 00:29:29.360 --> 00:29:33.440 The typical vehicle that comes to a location here 00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:35.240 and stays in the parking lot 00:29:35.240 --> 00:29:38.240 is roughly three to seven days in the parking lot. 00:29:38.240 --> 00:29:41.800 So on this first slide, you'll see over to the left side, 00:29:41.800 --> 00:29:43.380 there's a screening fence. 00:29:43.380 --> 00:29:48.200 And the proposed use for my clients 00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:51.440 is to be able to store vehicles 00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:54.560 that are awaiting service behind that wall 00:29:54.560 --> 00:29:56.560 so that nobody can see it. 00:29:56.560 --> 00:30:01.480 And then after space clears up in the shop, 00:30:01.480 --> 00:30:04.880 get them in there, get them serviced and get them out. 00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:07.120 Julie, would you go to the next slide, please? 00:30:07.120 --> 00:30:13.000 - It's at the next one. 00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:14.280 - Thank you. 00:30:14.280 --> 00:30:16.600 So as you all are familiar, 00:30:16.600 --> 00:30:20.960 this is the current improvements at the location, 00:30:20.960 --> 00:30:22.080 my flooring America. 00:30:22.080 --> 00:30:27.080 They were immediately south of Buckees along I-35. 00:30:27.080 --> 00:30:32.120 High traffic area, but no dense residential uses nearby. 00:30:32.120 --> 00:30:36.000 So we're in a pretty heavily commercially zoned 00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:38.200 and currently used area. 00:30:38.200 --> 00:30:40.360 Would you please go to the next slide, Julie? 00:30:40.360 --> 00:30:43.000 - Done. 00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:44.360 - This again shows the location 00:30:44.360 --> 00:30:46.520 of the subject property on I-35. 00:30:46.520 --> 00:30:51.600 This is before Buckees was built, as you can see. 00:30:51.600 --> 00:30:55.080 I wanna talk a bit, Julie, if you could go to the next slide. 00:30:55.080 --> 00:30:58.000 I wanna talk a bit about the highway corridors 00:30:58.000 --> 00:30:59.000 on any district. 00:30:59.000 --> 00:31:01.960 There are, on the map you're looking at, 00:31:01.960 --> 00:31:05.720 the locations depicted in bright red are highway corridor 00:31:05.720 --> 00:31:08.960 and we're gonna go north to south along I-35. 00:31:08.960 --> 00:31:10.320 Just so you have a, 00:31:10.320 --> 00:31:12.140 I want you to think about what you've seen 00:31:12.140 --> 00:31:14.200 when you're driven past. 00:31:14.200 --> 00:31:18.040 So that we can all kind of have an idea for what exists now 00:31:18.040 --> 00:31:19.880 and what is gonna exist there in the future. 00:31:19.880 --> 00:31:22.680 These red lights along I-35, 00:31:22.680 --> 00:31:27.680 this is north of university between the loop and 380. 00:31:27.680 --> 00:31:29.400 So along these locations, 00:31:29.400 --> 00:31:34.240 we have lots of heavy equipment rental and RV sales 00:31:34.240 --> 00:31:36.080 and a fair amount of vacant land. 00:31:36.080 --> 00:31:39.840 Julie, if you could go to the next slide. 00:31:39.840 --> 00:31:41.800 The HC district continues. 00:31:41.800 --> 00:31:45.000 This is between Fort Worth drive and Dallas drive 00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:47.200 where it connects to I-35. 00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:50.960 Again, bright red locations are zoned HC. 00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:55.880 Many of these locations are automotive repair sales, 00:31:55.880 --> 00:31:59.240 automotive sales, restaurant, vacant land, 00:31:59.240 --> 00:32:00.480 that type of improvement. 00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:04.480 And then finally, if you'll go one more slide, Julie, 00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:06.080 we get to the southern most portion 00:32:06.080 --> 00:32:08.160 of the HC zoning district. 00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:13.160 These locations are either vacant or have some 00:32:13.160 --> 00:32:17.080 of the largest car dealerships in town. 00:32:17.080 --> 00:32:20.640 And this goes roughly from, well, Bucky's on the north end 00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:24.300 down all the way to Post Oak on the southern end. 00:32:24.300 --> 00:32:30.880 So heavily commercial, lots of automotive related businesses. 00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:34.960 So if you'd go one more slide, Julie, I'd appreciate it. 00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:39.560 It's there. 00:32:39.560 --> 00:32:41.320 - Are we on the one that says use standards? 00:32:41.320 --> 00:32:42.480 - Yes, sir. 00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:43.880 - Thank you. 00:32:43.880 --> 00:32:46.720 So we all know within this district, 00:32:46.720 --> 00:32:49.800 an automotive repair shop of the major variety is allowed. 00:32:49.800 --> 00:32:52.200 That's any establishment that's primarily engaged 00:32:52.200 --> 00:32:54.200 in providing vehicle repair, body work, 00:32:54.200 --> 00:32:56.480 mechanical servicing and painting. 00:32:56.480 --> 00:32:59.800 And there are three specific use standards that apply 00:32:59.800 --> 00:33:01.840 for that use within the HC district. 00:33:01.840 --> 00:33:05.160 You've heard them before, but the first is all repairs, 00:33:05.160 --> 00:33:07.000 services and storage shall be conducted 00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:09.320 within an entirely enclosed structure. 00:33:09.320 --> 00:33:14.120 Two, that open storage of wrecked or inoperable cars, 00:33:14.120 --> 00:33:17.720 discarded tires, auto parts or similar materials 00:33:17.720 --> 00:33:21.800 shall be prohibited and sales of vehicles shall be prohibited. 00:33:21.800 --> 00:33:25.260 Now, within these three specific standards, 00:33:25.260 --> 00:33:28.080 there's not a whole lot of disagreement 00:33:28.080 --> 00:33:31.080 or issue with my client on a great deal of this. 00:33:31.080 --> 00:33:32.480 They don't plan to sell vehicles. 00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:35.960 So item three is not really of any concern 00:33:35.960 --> 00:33:37.880 for my client for their operations. 00:33:37.880 --> 00:33:42.520 On part two, the open storage of wrecked 00:33:42.520 --> 00:33:45.480 or inoperable cars, we're gonna talk about that some, 00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:48.600 but discarded tires, auto parts, similar materials, 00:33:48.600 --> 00:33:51.200 don't plan on having piles of rubber sitting around 00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:52.960 or old alternators. 00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:57.720 So we are gonna talk about wrecked or inoperable cars. 00:33:57.720 --> 00:34:02.800 And then on item one, all repairs, services and storage 00:34:02.800 --> 00:34:05.840 shall be conducted within an entirely enclosed structure. 00:34:05.840 --> 00:34:08.400 Much of that we don't have concern about. 00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:10.360 It's really what the meaning 00:34:10.360 --> 00:34:13.040 of an entirely enclosed structure is. 00:34:13.040 --> 00:34:16.240 So Julie, if you go to the next slide, I appreciate it. 00:34:16.240 --> 00:34:18.440 - It's there. 00:34:18.440 --> 00:34:23.360 - When you determine what is an entirely enclosed structure, 00:34:23.360 --> 00:34:28.400 the way that the city has interpreted that provision 00:34:28.400 --> 00:34:30.920 is these first two quotes I've got for you 00:34:30.920 --> 00:34:32.320 out of their interpretation letter 00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:34.920 that any vehicle intended for service 00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:38.240 and stored outside of a structure for more than 24 hours 00:34:38.240 --> 00:34:41.000 are classified as open storage and must be contained 00:34:41.000 --> 00:34:43.080 within an entirely enclosed structure 00:34:43.080 --> 00:34:44.920 in accordance with the use specific standards. 00:34:44.920 --> 00:34:47.600 And then they interpret that to be quote, 00:34:47.600 --> 00:34:52.600 the clear and plain meaning of section 5.3.5 00:34:52.600 --> 00:34:55.080 stipulates that all activities and materials 00:34:55.080 --> 00:34:57.960 associated with use must be maintained within a structure 00:34:57.960 --> 00:34:59.720 with four walls and a roof. 00:34:59.720 --> 00:35:02.960 So this is the first time that four walls and a roof 00:35:02.960 --> 00:35:06.760 comes into play and all activities and materials 00:35:06.760 --> 00:35:08.480 associated with is far broader 00:35:08.480 --> 00:35:11.160 than what the actual use restriction is. 00:35:11.160 --> 00:35:14.440 So the other, the third, 00:35:14.440 --> 00:35:16.760 well, let's talk about these first two. 00:35:16.760 --> 00:35:21.520 These first two, this four wall and a roof requirement, 00:35:21.520 --> 00:35:22.560 where might that come from? 00:35:22.560 --> 00:35:24.440 'Cause it's not in the use standard. 00:35:24.440 --> 00:35:29.440 The use standard reads all storage must be 00:35:29.440 --> 00:35:31.400 within entirely enclosed structure. 00:35:31.400 --> 00:35:32.960 So what is an entirely enclosed structure? 00:35:32.960 --> 00:35:35.880 We have some things we can look to to determine that. 00:35:35.880 --> 00:35:39.880 The first is the definition section of the DDC itself. 00:35:39.880 --> 00:35:44.880 The DDC itself defines a structure as any edifice 00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:48.720 of any kind or any piece of work artificially built up 00:35:48.720 --> 00:35:51.000 or composed of parts joined together 00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:54.440 which requires location on in or above the ground 00:35:54.440 --> 00:35:57.240 or which is attached to something having a location 00:35:57.240 --> 00:35:58.600 on in or above the ground. 00:35:58.600 --> 00:36:01.720 So that's very broad, what is a structure? 00:36:01.720 --> 00:36:05.760 There are lots of things that when you see 00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:08.000 the word structure that you might not consider 00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:08.880 would be a structure, 00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:11.800 but they are within the meaning of the DDC. 00:36:11.800 --> 00:36:17.840 For example, a permanent concrete picnic table in a park 00:36:17.840 --> 00:36:22.680 would be a structure under that definition. 00:36:22.680 --> 00:36:27.960 A permanent bench at a park would be a structure 00:36:27.960 --> 00:36:29.600 within that definition. 00:36:29.600 --> 00:36:31.640 So when we see the word structure, 00:36:31.640 --> 00:36:36.280 we often think building, barn, shed, 00:36:36.280 --> 00:36:39.880 but that's not what the DDC defines structure to mean. 00:36:39.880 --> 00:36:42.520 A structure would include a fence, okay? 00:36:42.520 --> 00:36:46.560 And so when you take the specific definition 00:36:46.560 --> 00:36:49.240 of a structure within the DDC and then you, 00:36:49.240 --> 00:36:52.560 not just a structure, a structure's not enough, 00:36:52.560 --> 00:36:54.480 it has to be an enclosed structure. 00:36:54.480 --> 00:36:55.880 But what does enclosed mean? 00:36:57.360 --> 00:37:02.360 Enclosed means wrapped around, concealed, okay? 00:37:02.360 --> 00:37:07.760 The staff relies on a Webster's definition 00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:12.640 or this open concept of not having, 00:37:12.640 --> 00:37:14.560 of not covered with a top roof or lid, 00:37:14.560 --> 00:37:19.560 but that's not what an enclosed structure 00:37:19.560 --> 00:37:22.440 is under the meaning of the DDC. 00:37:22.440 --> 00:37:26.520 A root, pardon me, a fence that was opaque 00:37:27.520 --> 00:37:30.920 even a fence that's not opaque would constitute 00:37:30.920 --> 00:37:33.240 an enclosed structure as long as access 00:37:33.240 --> 00:37:35.640 is restricted where you couldn't get into it. 00:37:35.640 --> 00:37:38.080 Let's see. 00:37:38.080 --> 00:37:42.960 And the city council could have required 00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:47.600 that a building, an entirely enclosed building 00:37:47.600 --> 00:37:52.320 be used for storage of materials or vehicles 00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:56.880 at a major auto repair or it could have required 00:37:56.880 --> 00:37:58.840 that a structure having at least four walls 00:37:58.840 --> 00:38:01.240 and a roof be required for storage. 00:38:01.240 --> 00:38:02.360 And it knew how to do that 00:38:02.360 --> 00:38:05.680 because they use those definitions in other places. 00:38:05.680 --> 00:38:08.720 So the definition of outdoor storage accessory 00:38:08.720 --> 00:38:10.840 has that four walls and a roof requirement 00:38:10.840 --> 00:38:13.680 that's not included in the use specific standard here. 00:38:13.680 --> 00:38:20.440 In the wrecking and vehicle tear down restrictions, 00:38:20.440 --> 00:38:25.360 it talks about unenclosed storage in buildings 00:38:25.360 --> 00:38:26.800 and enclosed building requirements. 00:38:26.800 --> 00:38:31.640 So when the council wanted an enclosure of building 00:38:31.640 --> 00:38:33.800 to be the required method of storage, 00:38:33.800 --> 00:38:36.200 it knew how to require it and it didn't do it here. 00:38:36.200 --> 00:38:39.760 And so what we're asking you all to decide today 00:38:39.760 --> 00:38:43.200 is that a fence constitutes 00:38:43.200 --> 00:38:46.920 an entirely enclosed structure, okay? 00:38:46.920 --> 00:38:50.800 And that a screening fence that's opaque 00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:54.160 that doesn't allow sites into what's being stored 00:38:54.160 --> 00:38:55.800 not only meets the requirements 00:38:55.800 --> 00:38:57.480 of an entirely enclosed structure, 00:38:57.480 --> 00:39:01.640 but also defeats the concern about open storage, okay? 00:39:01.640 --> 00:39:07.560 So open storage is not a defined term under the DDC 00:39:07.560 --> 00:39:12.320 and the city has looked to Webster's dictionary 00:39:12.320 --> 00:39:13.880 for the definition of the word open. 00:39:13.880 --> 00:39:16.480 They go down to the fourth definition listed 00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:19.360 where they cite that it means not covered 00:39:19.360 --> 00:39:21.360 with a top roof or lid. 00:39:21.360 --> 00:39:23.640 We believe that the first definition listed 00:39:23.640 --> 00:39:26.720 is far more probative that where it says having no enclosing 00:39:26.720 --> 00:39:29.360 or confining barrier accessible on all 00:39:29.360 --> 00:39:32.440 or nearly all sides, right? 00:39:32.440 --> 00:39:33.800 And then the black slot dictionary 00:39:33.800 --> 00:39:35.840 which lawyers use all the time 00:39:35.840 --> 00:39:39.080 says that open means manifest, 00:39:39.080 --> 00:39:43.560 apparent, notorious, visible, exposed to public view. 00:39:43.560 --> 00:39:46.040 That's the type of concern that the council 00:39:46.040 --> 00:39:48.880 apparently was trying to address 00:39:48.880 --> 00:39:50.320 with this open storage requirement. 00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:54.120 And it's satisfied by a screening fence 00:39:54.120 --> 00:39:56.920 or by which would be an enclosed structure 00:39:56.920 --> 00:39:58.880 as long as it goes all the way around. 00:39:58.880 --> 00:40:02.520 Julie, could you please go to the next slide for me? 00:40:02.520 --> 00:40:03.960 - Sure. 00:40:03.960 --> 00:40:05.280 I'm there. 00:40:05.280 --> 00:40:06.240 - Thank you. 00:40:06.240 --> 00:40:08.240 I don't want to get mine pulled up. 00:40:08.240 --> 00:40:10.680 So this, I went and took some pictures 00:40:10.680 --> 00:40:12.480 to take a look at some properties 00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:14.240 that are within this HC district. 00:40:14.240 --> 00:40:17.720 And this property here has long existed 00:40:17.720 --> 00:40:22.520 prior to the HC amendments that occurred in 2019. 00:40:22.520 --> 00:40:24.880 So I don't know what standards apply to them 00:40:24.880 --> 00:40:27.600 but I want to just go through a thought experiment here 00:40:27.600 --> 00:40:31.840 about whether or not this currently existing status 00:40:31.840 --> 00:40:35.880 would fit within the current, 00:40:35.880 --> 00:40:40.080 the current standards as they are, 00:40:40.080 --> 00:40:42.640 as they're being interpreted today. 00:40:42.640 --> 00:40:43.800 First, I think it's pretty clear 00:40:43.800 --> 00:40:45.880 there's some storage going on outside. 00:40:47.120 --> 00:40:49.120 And I can't represent to you 00:40:49.120 --> 00:40:52.640 that I drove past more than 24 hours apart 00:40:52.640 --> 00:40:54.720 but a great deal of these, 00:40:54.720 --> 00:40:58.080 this property looked like it had been there quite some time 00:40:58.080 --> 00:41:00.120 and it was visible from the public, 00:41:00.120 --> 00:41:02.040 from a public right away. 00:41:02.040 --> 00:41:05.880 And so you can clearly see that this screening fence 00:41:05.880 --> 00:41:10.040 on the left side here does not entirely enclose 00:41:10.040 --> 00:41:11.640 the objects that are being stored. 00:41:11.640 --> 00:41:15.520 If it did, I wouldn't have been able to see them. 00:41:15.520 --> 00:41:17.320 And of course, then it wouldn't have any of these 00:41:17.320 --> 00:41:19.840 negative impacts that we're trying to abate 00:41:19.840 --> 00:41:22.560 by adopting a zoning ordinance. 00:41:22.560 --> 00:41:25.320 So I'd submit to you that this current situation 00:41:25.320 --> 00:41:30.320 would not be approved under the current zoning scheme 00:41:30.320 --> 00:41:33.120 and it's certainly not what my client's proposing. 00:41:33.120 --> 00:41:35.080 Julie, would you please go to the next slide? 00:41:35.080 --> 00:41:37.320 - Yeah. 00:41:37.320 --> 00:41:40.760 - So if you're, this photograph was taken 00:41:40.760 --> 00:41:43.880 from the exact same spot facing the other direction. 00:41:43.880 --> 00:41:45.680 Again, this is a property that's within 00:41:45.680 --> 00:41:47.840 the current HC district. 00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:50.080 And here we see some vehicles. 00:41:50.080 --> 00:41:51.720 I don't know whether they're operable or not, 00:41:51.720 --> 00:41:53.840 but again, the main issue is you can see them. 00:41:53.840 --> 00:41:55.560 They're not adequately screened. 00:41:55.560 --> 00:41:58.000 Even though here, it does appear that they are 00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:01.200 contained within an enclosed structure. 00:42:01.200 --> 00:42:03.440 They're surrounded by a fence on the back, 00:42:03.440 --> 00:42:06.200 a fence on all four sides. 00:42:06.200 --> 00:42:07.200 They are enclosed. 00:42:07.200 --> 00:42:09.600 I think they meet the enclosed structure requirement 00:42:09.600 --> 00:42:14.560 but the openness component doesn't pass much through here 00:42:14.560 --> 00:42:15.760 because you can see them. 00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:19.560 So I wanna show you, if you could go to the next slide, 00:42:19.560 --> 00:42:21.120 and Julie, I'd appreciate it. 00:42:21.120 --> 00:42:25.600 The next slide, this is a much more recent installation 00:42:25.600 --> 00:42:27.440 here in Denton. 00:42:27.440 --> 00:42:32.000 This is not within the HC zoning district. 00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:33.920 This is actually a competitor of my clients, 00:42:33.920 --> 00:42:35.920 but this is a light industrial 00:42:35.920 --> 00:42:37.520 or some sort of industrial use. 00:42:37.520 --> 00:42:39.200 I don't remember specifically which one it is, 00:42:39.200 --> 00:42:44.200 but here, I think we meet the enclosed structure requirement 00:42:44.200 --> 00:42:47.640 but we don't meet the openness requirement once again. 00:42:47.640 --> 00:42:51.240 So you can even build a pretty nice looking building 00:42:51.240 --> 00:42:54.560 and a nice screening wall and still not meet 00:42:54.560 --> 00:42:56.960 the more stringent requirements that are gonna be 00:42:56.960 --> 00:43:00.280 upon my clients since they're in the HC district. 00:43:00.280 --> 00:43:03.800 But if you look here, we have entirely enclosed. 00:43:03.800 --> 00:43:04.920 The fence goes all the way around. 00:43:04.920 --> 00:43:05.920 You can just see through it. 00:43:05.920 --> 00:43:08.680 So you're not gonna get that second component. 00:43:08.680 --> 00:43:12.400 So I would submit to you that if this gate here were opaque, 00:43:12.400 --> 00:43:16.600 that it would meet the requirements of the HC district 00:43:16.600 --> 00:43:18.000 because you wouldn't be able to see in 00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:21.720 and it addresses all of the concerns that the council had. 00:43:21.720 --> 00:43:24.160 Julie, if you'd go on to the next slide, I'd appreciate it. 00:43:24.160 --> 00:43:27.240 - I'm there. 00:43:27.240 --> 00:43:30.080 - Thanks, this is a overhead shot of the concept plan 00:43:30.080 --> 00:43:35.040 for my clients contemplated improvements here. 00:43:35.040 --> 00:43:39.520 You'll notice here on the building is largely 00:43:39.520 --> 00:43:41.720 the same footprint over here on the right, 00:43:41.720 --> 00:43:47.000 I guess the north, well, the right-hand side, 00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:48.840 there's a parking area for the public. 00:43:48.840 --> 00:43:53.160 And then there's a fence, a screening fence 00:43:53.160 --> 00:43:58.160 that is along the bottom-most and left-most directions 00:43:58.160 --> 00:44:03.880 of this property and it screens on all slides. 00:44:03.880 --> 00:44:08.880 So it would shield from public view all of the vehicles 00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:11.800 that were either waiting to be worked on 00:44:11.800 --> 00:44:14.560 or had been worked on but not yet picked up. 00:44:14.560 --> 00:44:17.160 It addresses the enclosed structure requirement. 00:44:17.160 --> 00:44:18.200 There's a fence all the way around. 00:44:18.200 --> 00:44:19.800 It's not visible from the public. 00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:23.520 If you'd go to the next slide, please, Julie. 00:44:23.520 --> 00:44:31.080 These are some elevations depictions 00:44:31.080 --> 00:44:35.040 of the type of product that my client wants to install 00:44:35.040 --> 00:44:36.080 at the property. 00:44:36.080 --> 00:44:41.080 Julie, if you could go one more, I'd appreciate it. 00:44:41.080 --> 00:44:43.560 - Yes. 00:44:43.560 --> 00:44:45.040 - And then the very last one, 00:44:45.040 --> 00:44:49.480 this is the style of opaque fence 00:44:49.480 --> 00:44:53.720 that would shield from the public view 00:44:53.720 --> 00:44:58.000 the vehicles that are parked at the property. 00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:02.280 I do want to talk for just a moment about the wrecked 00:45:02.280 --> 00:45:03.960 and inoperable components. 00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:08.960 And the city that's interpretation letter has assumed 00:45:08.960 --> 00:45:13.320 that if you are at a body shop, 00:45:13.320 --> 00:45:15.760 then you must be wrecked or inoperable. 00:45:15.760 --> 00:45:17.520 And we all know that's not the case. 00:45:17.520 --> 00:45:19.840 We've all had fender benders. 00:45:19.840 --> 00:45:22.640 We've all had scratches. 00:45:22.640 --> 00:45:25.360 We've had either a window or mirror replacement 00:45:25.360 --> 00:45:28.040 or we've had a panel that's been repainted. 00:45:28.040 --> 00:45:29.840 And we all know that those vehicles 00:45:29.840 --> 00:45:32.280 were perfectly operable, right? 00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:34.440 And wrecked, not even close to wrecked. 00:45:34.440 --> 00:45:36.880 Wrecking is where you dismantle vehicles 00:45:36.880 --> 00:45:40.080 to salvage them basically. 00:45:40.080 --> 00:45:43.040 And that concept comes from the city 00:45:43.040 --> 00:45:44.320 of Denton code of ordinances 00:45:44.320 --> 00:45:45.680 where we talk about wrecked vehicles, 00:45:45.680 --> 00:45:48.320 discarded, abandoned, jumped, wrecked 00:45:48.320 --> 00:45:51.840 or worn out automotive vehicles, including those, 00:45:51.840 --> 00:45:54.200 including, but not limited to autos, trucks, 00:45:54.200 --> 00:45:56.840 trailers and buses are kept your store. 00:45:56.840 --> 00:45:59.200 This is about wrecking services for the purpose 00:45:59.200 --> 00:46:01.880 of disassembling, dismantling, cutting up, stripping 00:46:01.880 --> 00:46:04.640 or otherwise wrecking such automotive vehicles 00:46:04.640 --> 00:46:07.000 to extract their from parts, components 00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:09.440 or accessories for sale or for use 00:46:09.440 --> 00:46:11.200 in an automotive repair or rebuilding business. 00:46:11.200 --> 00:46:13.080 So that's not what's going on here. 00:46:13.080 --> 00:46:16.280 That's not what my client intends to do. 00:46:16.280 --> 00:46:20.280 And so we don't really have an issue 00:46:20.280 --> 00:46:25.040 with the prohibition on wrecked, on storing wrecked vehicles 00:46:25.040 --> 00:46:26.840 because we're just not gonna store wrecked vehicle there. 00:46:26.840 --> 00:46:28.000 That's not what we're gonna do. 00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:31.760 So, but I do think it's going a step too far 00:46:31.760 --> 00:46:34.040 to say that just because you have a vehicle 00:46:34.040 --> 00:46:37.000 that's at a body shop or a paint shop 00:46:37.000 --> 00:46:40.880 that it is automatically wrecked or inoperable 00:46:40.880 --> 00:46:43.160 because we all know that's just not the case. 00:46:43.160 --> 00:46:47.360 So in conclusion, the proposed screening improvements 00:46:47.360 --> 00:46:48.520 that my client has presented 00:46:48.520 --> 00:46:51.040 are an entirely enclosed structure 00:46:51.040 --> 00:46:53.360 within the meaning of the DDC. 00:46:53.360 --> 00:46:57.000 The vehicles that are intended to be parked there 00:46:57.000 --> 00:46:59.640 are not gonna be wrecked or inoperable 00:46:59.640 --> 00:47:02.080 and they don't run afoul of the storage requirements 00:47:02.080 --> 00:47:04.640 that are cited by the city and its interpretation letter. 00:47:04.640 --> 00:47:07.920 The opacity of the proposed improvement 00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:11.240 defeats the openness component of the concern 00:47:11.240 --> 00:47:12.840 that has been raised here today. 00:47:12.840 --> 00:47:15.600 And as such, we're asking this board to modify 00:47:15.600 --> 00:47:17.120 the interpretation letter of the city 00:47:17.120 --> 00:47:20.640 to specifically find that the proposed screening fence 00:47:20.640 --> 00:47:22.760 is an entirely enclosed structure 00:47:22.760 --> 00:47:24.760 within the meaning of the DDC 00:47:24.760 --> 00:47:27.200 and that the contemplated damaged vehicles 00:47:27.200 --> 00:47:29.280 do not categorically amount to wrecked 00:47:29.280 --> 00:47:30.960 or inoperable vehicles. 00:47:30.960 --> 00:47:32.560 And I know I've gone quickly. 00:47:32.560 --> 00:47:35.360 I'm happy to answer any questions that you all might have. 00:47:35.360 --> 00:47:40.320 - Thank you, Mr. Sergeant. 00:47:40.320 --> 00:47:42.720 Does anyone from the board have any questions? 00:47:47.360 --> 00:47:48.480 - I have a question. 00:47:48.480 --> 00:47:52.880 So in a couple, you showed a couple of previous slides 00:47:52.880 --> 00:47:55.800 of a business that was zoned HC, 00:47:55.800 --> 00:47:57.360 but it was probably pre-existing, 00:47:57.360 --> 00:48:00.200 the 2019 overhaul of the DDC. 00:48:00.200 --> 00:48:01.360 - Yes, ma'am. - And then, yeah. 00:48:01.360 --> 00:48:05.200 And then you showed another one that was much newer 00:48:05.200 --> 00:48:08.240 that was not in the HC zoning area. 00:48:08.240 --> 00:48:12.320 I was just wondering if you have any images 00:48:12.320 --> 00:48:16.520 or did you come across any businesses like this 00:48:16.520 --> 00:48:20.160 in the HC zoning district 00:48:20.160 --> 00:48:25.160 that have been built or created since the 2019 overhaul? 00:48:25.160 --> 00:48:28.320 - Not that I was able to locate. 00:48:28.320 --> 00:48:29.960 When I was driving through the districts, 00:48:29.960 --> 00:48:33.560 there's lots of pre-existing auto repair uses 00:48:33.560 --> 00:48:38.000 and there's lots of relatively new 00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:41.800 or constantly updated uses such as car dealerships. 00:48:41.800 --> 00:48:46.120 And those car dealerships have body shop work 00:48:46.120 --> 00:48:47.760 that they do. 00:48:47.760 --> 00:48:52.760 And you can see the vehicles that are waiting repair 00:48:52.760 --> 00:48:55.280 in some of those instances. 00:48:55.280 --> 00:48:58.800 What I did find up near the northern portion 00:48:58.800 --> 00:49:03.280 of the district up by the 288 intersection 00:49:03.280 --> 00:49:05.440 where we have the Zimmer-Kavoda location, 00:49:05.440 --> 00:49:07.440 there's a couple of uses up there 00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:10.720 that are not auto repair. 00:49:10.720 --> 00:49:14.840 They do sales for RVs and for rental equipment, 00:49:14.840 --> 00:49:17.320 but both of, well, there were three or four, I think, 00:49:17.320 --> 00:49:22.440 maybe three that had repair operations that they conducted 00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:27.160 where the materials used for repair 00:49:27.160 --> 00:49:30.120 and the vehicles or equipment that was waiting to be repaired 00:49:30.120 --> 00:49:33.520 were both visible from the street since they're not, 00:49:33.520 --> 00:49:35.480 I didn't include them since they're not 00:49:35.480 --> 00:49:39.600 a major auto repair installation. 00:49:39.600 --> 00:49:42.800 They're sales-based and they have different standards, 00:49:42.800 --> 00:49:46.560 but there are similar uses within the zoning district, 00:49:46.560 --> 00:49:49.200 but none that I could find that were just auto repair. 00:49:49.200 --> 00:49:51.120 - Yeah, in a way, the second one that you showed 00:49:51.120 --> 00:49:52.560 where it was just a fence very similar 00:49:52.560 --> 00:49:55.960 to what your client was proposing, 00:49:55.960 --> 00:49:57.600 what was the zoning on that one? 00:49:57.600 --> 00:49:58.440 Are you aware? 00:49:58.440 --> 00:50:03.080 - For the second one, the one that's relatively new? 00:50:03.080 --> 00:50:04.520 - Yeah. 00:50:04.520 --> 00:50:06.280 - That is an industrial use. 00:50:06.280 --> 00:50:08.960 - But it is auto repair? 00:50:08.960 --> 00:50:10.840 Like it's similar to what- 00:50:10.840 --> 00:50:14.400 - Yes, that's Caliber Collision next door 00:50:14.400 --> 00:50:18.360 to Duluth Trading Company and Northern Tool and Equipment. 00:50:18.360 --> 00:50:20.920 - Okay, do you know when they were built? 00:50:20.920 --> 00:50:21.760 - I don't. 00:50:21.760 --> 00:50:26.960 - Would it be possible to, 00:50:26.960 --> 00:50:28.880 'cause now that you point that out, 00:50:28.880 --> 00:50:31.000 sorry, Amber, is that okay if I ask? 00:50:31.000 --> 00:50:32.280 - Yeah, go ahead 'cause it sounds like you're piggybacking. 00:50:32.280 --> 00:50:33.120 Go ahead. 00:50:33.120 --> 00:50:36.720 - Yeah, now that you kind of pinned up where that's at, 00:50:36.720 --> 00:50:38.880 Julie, is there a way we could pull that presentation back up 00:50:38.880 --> 00:50:41.880 and look at one of the slides that he showed with the red, 00:50:41.880 --> 00:50:44.400 I think this might be the first or second one, 00:50:44.400 --> 00:50:46.400 with the red HC District. 00:50:46.400 --> 00:50:51.600 - To answer your question when that caliber was built, 00:50:51.600 --> 00:50:55.200 I believe it was built in 2018. 00:50:55.200 --> 00:50:59.160 - Okay, so this all predates the 2019 overhaul of the DDC, 00:50:59.160 --> 00:51:01.880 which I think is important to point out here, but it's- 00:51:01.880 --> 00:51:02.720 - Yeah. 00:51:02.720 --> 00:51:03.560 - Yeah, okay. 00:51:03.560 --> 00:51:04.400 Is that what the- 00:51:04.400 --> 00:51:05.240 - Yeah, absolutely, 00:51:05.240 --> 00:51:08.000 and it's in a different zoning district altogether. 00:51:08.000 --> 00:51:12.280 I included to show what already exists along I-35 00:51:12.280 --> 00:51:16.000 and what the, to show something that I don't think 00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:18.200 would be conforming in the HC District, 00:51:18.200 --> 00:51:21.520 but is nonetheless a high quality building. 00:51:21.520 --> 00:51:22.360 - Correct. 00:51:22.360 --> 00:51:26.200 - Keep in mind though, the same use standards apply 00:51:26.200 --> 00:51:29.280 throughout all the zoning districts that it's permitted in. 00:51:29.280 --> 00:51:32.760 So even in an industrial district, the use standards, 00:51:32.760 --> 00:51:36.840 even in the heavy industry. 00:51:39.000 --> 00:51:43.000 - So, Mr. Redwine, did you get, we were looking for you- 00:51:43.000 --> 00:51:44.440 - Actually, Julie, can we go back? 00:51:44.440 --> 00:51:47.200 I think it's maybe one more slide, well. 00:51:47.200 --> 00:51:50.760 - Oh, are you talking about all the red? 00:51:50.760 --> 00:51:52.520 - Yeah, where we showed the different districts. 00:51:52.520 --> 00:51:54.440 Yeah, I just want to see along that corridor 00:51:54.440 --> 00:51:59.520 where that location will be right there, I think. 00:51:59.520 --> 00:52:01.320 - No, that's the Northern end. 00:52:01.320 --> 00:52:05.240 - We don't have the one in between University and Dallas. 00:52:05.240 --> 00:52:07.960 - It's actually, it is visible on that first slide, 00:52:07.960 --> 00:52:09.560 that shows the HC Zoning District. 00:52:09.560 --> 00:52:12.640 If you look right down at the, you know, 00:52:12.640 --> 00:52:15.240 the bottom most portion, it's light blue. 00:52:15.240 --> 00:52:16.680 - Got it, okay. 00:52:16.680 --> 00:52:17.600 So I was just trying to see it. 00:52:17.600 --> 00:52:19.640 Well, I mean, so I guess to answer my question, 00:52:19.640 --> 00:52:24.240 we have just north of that, we have some HC Districts. 00:52:24.240 --> 00:52:27.880 Yeah, okay, that helps me with kind of what I was looking for. 00:52:27.880 --> 00:52:29.200 Thank you. 00:52:29.200 --> 00:52:30.640 - Ms. Meisner, you've been so patient. 00:52:30.640 --> 00:52:32.880 Thanks so much for your time. 00:52:32.880 --> 00:52:37.880 - Yeah, so I guess I have two questions here. 00:52:38.520 --> 00:52:41.320 The first one for Julie, 00:52:41.320 --> 00:52:46.440 I'm a little confused about the four walls and a roof. 00:52:46.440 --> 00:52:50.200 So was that just not stated clearly originally, 00:52:50.200 --> 00:52:53.360 but its intention was included? 00:52:53.360 --> 00:52:59.720 - In terms of the use specific standard, the within, 00:52:59.720 --> 00:53:01.880 the intent was to, 00:53:01.880 --> 00:53:06.840 the intent is to have those within a fully enclosed 00:53:06.840 --> 00:53:08.480 four walls and a roof. 00:53:08.480 --> 00:53:11.200 And what we do is we look to other parts, 00:53:11.200 --> 00:53:14.480 other use specific standards related to some more 00:53:14.480 --> 00:53:18.480 automotive uses to sort of see how they differentiate. 00:53:18.480 --> 00:53:21.640 So when we look at, for example, 00:53:21.640 --> 00:53:24.880 just outdoor storage, 00:53:24.880 --> 00:53:28.080 it doesn't talk about that full enclosure, you know, 00:53:28.080 --> 00:53:30.640 it just talks about it needs a screening wall. 00:53:30.640 --> 00:53:33.760 And then we talk about the, 00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:42.160 the automotive wrecking and salvage yards, 00:53:42.160 --> 00:53:45.080 where the only requirement it has, 00:53:45.080 --> 00:53:46.920 it has to be screened from public view. 00:53:46.920 --> 00:53:51.560 So the automotive repair major talks about that, 00:53:51.560 --> 00:53:55.440 that prohibits that open storage. 00:53:55.440 --> 00:53:57.040 So really it gets to that. 00:53:57.040 --> 00:53:59.600 It really needs to be enclosed. 00:53:59.600 --> 00:54:03.960 - Okay, so there's just a lot of splitting hairs 00:54:03.960 --> 00:54:08.960 between the terminologies that seems to be going on. 00:54:08.960 --> 00:54:11.800 And then my next, my follow-up question is, 00:54:11.800 --> 00:54:15.240 if the structure, 00:54:15.240 --> 00:54:19.960 from where you've got it now, 00:54:19.960 --> 00:54:25.480 have you looked at details for expanding 00:54:25.480 --> 00:54:27.960 into four walls and a roof? 00:54:27.960 --> 00:54:30.640 And if so, what is the cost of that? 00:54:30.640 --> 00:54:34.160 And is your client prepared to go down that avenue? 00:54:34.160 --> 00:54:38.680 What research has been done to satisfy 00:54:38.680 --> 00:54:41.160 the standards of the city? 00:54:41.160 --> 00:54:44.560 - Well, you know, we of course have a, 00:54:44.560 --> 00:54:46.240 we disagree with the city's interpretation 00:54:46.240 --> 00:54:47.480 of what those standards are, 00:54:47.480 --> 00:54:50.720 but I have not been a part of any conversations 00:54:50.720 --> 00:54:55.240 about those costs or what that might look like. 00:54:55.240 --> 00:54:56.960 Representative from my client, Gray Hanna, 00:54:56.960 --> 00:54:58.400 I think is on the line. 00:54:58.400 --> 00:55:02.120 Gray, are you in a spot where you could answer that question? 00:55:02.120 --> 00:55:04.960 - Yeah, you've been repeating the question on my phone, 00:55:04.960 --> 00:55:06.760 cut out just for like 10 seconds. 00:55:06.760 --> 00:55:12.080 - Have you looked at what it would take to expand 00:55:12.080 --> 00:55:15.560 to provide an enclosure with four walls and a roof 00:55:15.560 --> 00:55:17.800 to maintain consistent standards 00:55:17.800 --> 00:55:20.080 that the city's referring to? 00:55:20.080 --> 00:55:25.200 - I can say we've looked at it briefly, 00:55:25.200 --> 00:55:30.200 but to build an enclosure is gonna be very expensive. 00:55:30.200 --> 00:55:38.800 So, I mean, to maintain anything that's on the lot 00:55:38.800 --> 00:55:45.640 for more than 24 hours, 00:55:45.640 --> 00:55:50.840 I mean, gosh, that could be upwards of a million dollars 00:55:50.840 --> 00:55:51.680 easily. 00:55:55.200 --> 00:55:56.040 - Okay. 00:55:56.040 --> 00:56:04.600 Are there other questions for Mr. Sargent? 00:56:04.600 --> 00:56:10.120 Okay. 00:56:10.120 --> 00:56:11.280 All right, we're gonna move on then. 00:56:11.280 --> 00:56:12.760 Thank you very much, sir. 00:56:12.760 --> 00:56:17.680 Let's see, next then, is there anyone who wishes 00:56:17.680 --> 00:56:20.160 to speak at the appeal, Mr. Hanna? 00:56:20.160 --> 00:56:23.480 I imagine you probably would be in this category, yes. 00:56:26.040 --> 00:56:26.880 - Yes. 00:56:26.880 --> 00:56:27.720 - Yes, all right. 00:56:27.720 --> 00:56:30.360 If you'd like to go ahead and present your case, 00:56:30.360 --> 00:56:31.520 you've got the floor. 00:56:31.520 --> 00:56:38.040 - Oh, I'm sorry, no, I'm good with what Trey's outlined. 00:56:38.040 --> 00:56:39.040 - Got it, got it, good. 00:56:39.040 --> 00:56:41.440 Looks like we've got a question from Ms. Lane. 00:56:41.440 --> 00:56:44.680 - Yes, I had a question as to, 00:56:44.680 --> 00:56:47.040 you mentioned having quite a number 00:56:47.040 --> 00:56:50.800 of other similar businesses around and about, 00:56:50.800 --> 00:56:55.800 and that this business does not do heavy automotive repair 00:56:55.800 --> 00:56:59.360 work or parts replacement work. 00:56:59.360 --> 00:57:02.200 Is that the case with all of your other branches 00:57:02.200 --> 00:57:04.360 and has it been consistently case? 00:57:04.360 --> 00:57:07.880 And do you have documentation that prohibits customers 00:57:07.880 --> 00:57:09.520 from that expectation? 00:57:09.520 --> 00:57:14.640 - So typically how they, 00:57:14.640 --> 00:57:18.640 but they have a location down in farmers branch 00:57:18.640 --> 00:57:22.640 that takes on all of their, what they consider non-drives. 00:57:22.640 --> 00:57:29.960 Now, occasionally, what it means is it's just not drivable. 00:57:29.960 --> 00:57:34.920 It's not tutable to be on the road. 00:57:34.920 --> 00:57:41.240 Occasionally, what can happen is the car gets delivered 00:57:41.240 --> 00:57:48.200 to the site, it's considered a total loss 00:57:49.200 --> 00:57:51.720 and then the insurance company comes and takes it off 00:57:51.720 --> 00:57:54.720 and uses it for salaries. 00:57:54.720 --> 00:57:59.720 That is typically what you would see 00:57:59.720 --> 00:58:03.320 if a car is gonna remain there. 00:58:03.320 --> 00:58:06.160 And they do that within a week. 00:58:06.160 --> 00:58:07.320 - Within a week. 00:58:07.320 --> 00:58:12.280 So you could have visible, very damaged looking cars 00:58:12.280 --> 00:58:15.480 sitting there for a week, waiting for the insurance to come. 00:58:15.480 --> 00:58:16.320 Okay, thank you. 00:58:18.760 --> 00:58:19.600 Ms. Meisner. 00:58:19.600 --> 00:58:25.160 - One more question for Julie. 00:58:25.160 --> 00:58:30.160 With regards to standards for four walls and a roof, 00:58:30.160 --> 00:58:34.560 help me understand if this would qualify in that category, 00:58:34.560 --> 00:58:38.600 if it were to be just brick fencing 00:58:38.600 --> 00:58:41.840 with some type of a metal structure on top, 00:58:41.840 --> 00:58:46.840 that they were to not necessarily extend 00:58:47.680 --> 00:58:50.800 the full enclosure over full on 00:58:50.800 --> 00:58:53.040 with air conditioning, heating, whatnot, 00:58:53.040 --> 00:58:58.040 but just make a different smaller scale enclosure, 00:58:58.040 --> 00:59:00.860 would that meet that standard? 00:59:00.860 --> 00:59:08.760 - Let me make sure I understand. 00:59:08.760 --> 00:59:12.120 So you're talking about a sort of fencing, 00:59:12.120 --> 00:59:16.880 but with a maybe sort of a, just a covering on top? 00:59:16.880 --> 00:59:17.720 - Yes. 00:59:17.720 --> 00:59:23.200 - That first use specific standard, 00:59:23.200 --> 00:59:26.080 which talks about that entirely enclosed, 00:59:26.080 --> 00:59:29.480 based upon just that plain language, 00:59:29.480 --> 00:59:32.960 I really think it needs to be a fully enclosed building. 00:59:32.960 --> 00:59:36.680 In terms of like air conditioned space, 00:59:36.680 --> 00:59:39.240 that would probably fall to building inspections 00:59:39.240 --> 00:59:41.900 to meet their requirements. 00:59:41.900 --> 00:59:46.560 But given that that use specific standard 00:59:46.560 --> 00:59:48.780 talks about entirely enclosed, 00:59:48.780 --> 00:59:51.680 I would think it would need to meet that standard. 00:59:51.680 --> 00:59:52.720 - Okay, thank you. 00:59:52.720 --> 01:00:03.720 Ms. Lane, you're muted. 01:00:03.720 --> 01:00:08.040 - I unmuted, but it remuted for some reason. 01:00:08.040 --> 01:00:11.360 Is it understood that the repair work would take place 01:00:11.360 --> 01:00:13.520 inside the structure or whatever it is? 01:00:16.760 --> 01:00:19.900 - Mrs. Trey, I'm not sure your question's for you, go ahead. 01:00:19.900 --> 01:00:27.240 - That repair, all repairs are in the enclosed building. 01:00:27.240 --> 01:00:28.840 - I see, I see. 01:00:28.840 --> 01:00:32.160 So then it would possibly be a consideration 01:00:32.160 --> 01:00:34.920 that it be a habitable for human beings 01:00:34.920 --> 01:00:36.700 to spend many, many hours there? 01:00:36.700 --> 01:00:42.900 - Yes. 01:00:42.900 --> 01:00:46.320 Are you referring to the employees? 01:00:47.480 --> 01:00:52.180 - Yes, and the owners or managers, 01:00:52.180 --> 01:00:54.220 people who would need to be around the vehicles 01:00:54.220 --> 01:00:55.560 would need to be in there. 01:00:55.560 --> 01:00:58.140 - Correct, yes. 01:00:58.140 --> 01:01:06.000 - Okay, so we're gonna move on. 01:01:06.000 --> 01:01:09.200 - Now, I guess they wouldn't be in, 01:01:09.200 --> 01:01:13.720 they wouldn't have a need to be in the parking areas at all, 01:01:13.720 --> 01:01:15.680 but inside the existing building 01:01:15.680 --> 01:01:16.920 where the repairs are going on. 01:01:16.920 --> 01:01:18.800 Yeah, that is correct. 01:01:18.800 --> 01:01:20.760 - And is it that building? 01:01:20.760 --> 01:01:22.920 So it's the storage building that we're talking about, 01:01:22.920 --> 01:01:25.160 not the only reason to go in 01:01:25.160 --> 01:01:27.600 and it would be to move cars out of it? 01:01:27.600 --> 01:01:28.440 - Correct. - Yes. 01:01:28.440 --> 01:01:35.840 - Okay, any other questions? 01:01:35.840 --> 01:01:39.040 Okay, good, all right. 01:01:39.040 --> 01:01:41.960 So the next one is then, 01:01:41.960 --> 01:01:46.000 is anyone, not staff, not Mr. Sargent, 01:01:46.000 --> 01:01:50.600 anyone else who wants to speak in support of this appeal? 01:01:50.600 --> 01:01:55.400 I don't know how this works if people are calling in. 01:01:55.400 --> 01:01:56.260 Is there anyone? 01:01:56.260 --> 01:01:58.960 - Thank you, Chair. 01:01:58.960 --> 01:02:01.240 There are no callers for this item. 01:02:01.240 --> 01:02:02.820 - Okay, thank you, okay. 01:02:02.820 --> 01:02:06.160 And I assume then number seven, 01:02:06.160 --> 01:02:07.800 there's no one who wishes to speak in opposition 01:02:07.800 --> 01:02:10.200 of this appeal because there's no callers, so okay. 01:02:12.960 --> 01:02:15.880 Moving on, comments now having been received 01:02:15.880 --> 01:02:17.920 from all those desiring to speak in favor 01:02:17.920 --> 01:02:19.600 and in opposition appeal, 01:02:19.600 --> 01:02:21.880 I would call upon the administrative official 01:02:21.880 --> 01:02:25.400 and then the appellate for rebuttal. 01:02:25.400 --> 01:02:26.960 - Chair, if I can interject real quick, 01:02:26.960 --> 01:02:28.840 before we get to that point, 01:02:28.840 --> 01:02:30.680 staff does have a clarification. 01:02:30.680 --> 01:02:34.880 Julie, do you have that clarification? 01:02:34.880 --> 01:02:36.640 - Well, just in terms of the differences 01:02:36.640 --> 01:02:39.280 between the buildings, if a car was stored there 01:02:39.280 --> 01:02:42.080 or if the vehicles were being repaired there, 01:02:42.080 --> 01:02:44.480 they would need to, any structure would need 01:02:44.480 --> 01:02:46.720 to accommodate a lift or any other equipment 01:02:46.720 --> 01:02:50.640 that would be required in order to do that operation. 01:02:50.640 --> 01:02:52.440 So I just wanted to make that clear. 01:02:52.440 --> 01:02:54.880 - Thank you. 01:02:54.880 --> 01:03:00.780 So now we move on to the rebuttal part. 01:03:00.780 --> 01:03:05.640 I haven't, it's been a minute 01:03:05.640 --> 01:03:07.160 since we had a meeting like this. 01:03:07.160 --> 01:03:09.360 So I'm not sure if I start with, 01:03:09.360 --> 01:03:10.880 oh, I guess I start with Ms. Wyatt. 01:03:10.880 --> 01:03:12.120 Do you have a rebuttal to anything 01:03:12.120 --> 01:03:14.680 that was presented before us? 01:03:14.680 --> 01:03:18.240 - I don't have anything more to add 01:03:18.240 --> 01:03:20.960 other than to just talk about 01:03:20.960 --> 01:03:24.720 that the Denton Development Code does address. 01:03:24.720 --> 01:03:27.200 The vehicle repair is differently 01:03:27.200 --> 01:03:31.480 and that storage onsite and those cars differently 01:03:31.480 --> 01:03:34.240 than it does that outdoor storage 01:03:34.240 --> 01:03:36.960 and those junkyard type uses 01:03:36.960 --> 01:03:39.120 where those do just require that fencing 01:03:39.120 --> 01:03:41.160 and that vehicle repair does require 01:03:41.160 --> 01:03:43.680 that entirely enclosed structure. 01:03:43.680 --> 01:03:46.960 - Thank you. 01:03:46.960 --> 01:03:51.520 Do any members of the public 01:03:51.520 --> 01:03:52.800 for previous provide a comment? 01:03:52.800 --> 01:03:54.240 Yes, so I guess Mr. Sergeant, 01:03:54.240 --> 01:03:56.000 do you have a rebuttal to anything? 01:03:56.000 --> 01:03:58.840 - No, I just like to take the opportunity 01:03:58.840 --> 01:04:02.000 to thank you once again for your time this afternoon. 01:04:02.000 --> 01:04:04.400 Appreciate it, I know that it's valuable 01:04:04.400 --> 01:04:06.160 and that's not lost on any of us. 01:04:06.160 --> 01:04:08.720 So I do have one, I guess, 01:04:08.720 --> 01:04:13.560 point of order or question about the action 01:04:13.560 --> 01:04:14.680 that you're about to take. 01:04:14.680 --> 01:04:16.160 Julie had previously written me 01:04:16.160 --> 01:04:18.680 about needing to do that in a separate meeting 01:04:18.680 --> 01:04:20.200 and I know they're on the same agenda here 01:04:20.200 --> 01:04:23.320 and I wanna make sure that whatever decision you guys make 01:04:23.320 --> 01:04:25.400 is final and good and all that. 01:04:25.400 --> 01:04:27.440 So I don't know if Julie has a comment on that or not, 01:04:27.440 --> 01:04:30.520 but I wanted to bring it up before you got to the next item. 01:04:30.520 --> 01:04:32.200 - Yeah, I had a question on that too, 01:04:32.200 --> 01:04:34.400 which was clarified beforehand for me, 01:04:34.400 --> 01:04:37.320 but go ahead and staff could just clarify 01:04:37.320 --> 01:04:38.680 for the rest of us, please. 01:04:38.680 --> 01:04:45.200 - Yes, Chair, members of the commission and the applicant, 01:04:45.200 --> 01:04:49.080 due to the agenda, we are going to make that determination 01:04:49.080 --> 01:04:50.920 or just the board will be making that decision 01:04:50.920 --> 01:04:54.760 that is on the next item that's on the agenda 01:04:54.760 --> 01:04:56.280 immediately after this item. 01:04:56.280 --> 01:05:02.560 - And I guess the attorney for Mr. Sergeant, 01:05:02.560 --> 01:05:04.080 I just wanna make sure that's okay with you, 01:05:04.080 --> 01:05:06.880 that you all don't have any objections 01:05:06.880 --> 01:05:08.240 to that happening today. 01:05:08.240 --> 01:05:10.840 - Well, we're gonna reserve all of our rights 01:05:10.840 --> 01:05:12.480 under the local government code 01:05:12.480 --> 01:05:14.760 and if the board's been advised 01:05:14.760 --> 01:05:16.760 that that's the actually need to take work, 01:05:16.760 --> 01:05:19.800 I guess we will object to it on the grounds 01:05:19.800 --> 01:05:24.840 that it doesn't comply with section 211-010-D. 01:05:24.840 --> 01:05:32.520 For the record, I mean, just for the purposes 01:05:32.520 --> 01:05:34.720 of preserving that objection for the record. 01:05:34.720 --> 01:05:45.840 - So do we move on since you have an objective objection? 01:05:45.840 --> 01:05:50.600 - Well, we've got a couple of options. 01:05:50.600 --> 01:05:53.160 One is the board, we can go into closed session 01:05:53.160 --> 01:05:57.200 just to talk about potentially what goes along 01:05:57.200 --> 01:06:00.040 with the objection and what that would mean for the board. 01:06:00.040 --> 01:06:02.160 I guess the option beyond that is 01:06:02.160 --> 01:06:04.320 if you wanna meet or schedule another time 01:06:04.320 --> 01:06:06.680 that the 211 of the local government code 01:06:06.680 --> 01:06:09.080 requires the decision to be made within 60 days. 01:06:09.080 --> 01:06:12.080 I mean, that's June 13th. 01:06:12.080 --> 01:06:15.160 So if there's a time when the board can meet before then, 01:06:15.160 --> 01:06:18.800 I think that would address Mr. Sergeant's concern. 01:06:18.800 --> 01:06:20.840 - And I think the challenge with that is 01:06:20.840 --> 01:06:24.720 because we've done this once before, like two years ago, 01:06:24.720 --> 01:06:28.840 is that it has to be all six members who are here 01:06:28.840 --> 01:06:33.520 have to find a time that works for our schedules, 01:06:33.520 --> 01:06:36.960 which isn't impossible, but not always easy. 01:06:36.960 --> 01:06:39.840 So I'm not sure how to proceed at this point 01:06:39.840 --> 01:06:42.480 because the next step would be for me 01:06:42.480 --> 01:06:47.160 to close the public hearing and then open up item 2C, 01:06:47.160 --> 01:06:49.800 which is deliberations and a decision. 01:06:49.800 --> 01:06:54.800 So if Mr. Sergeant and his client object to us proceeding, 01:06:55.720 --> 01:07:00.400 then I think we should, I propose we close the public hearing 01:07:00.400 --> 01:07:02.480 and try and find a way for the six of us 01:07:02.480 --> 01:07:06.000 to get together between now and June 13th, 01:07:06.000 --> 01:07:08.040 or if Mr. Sergeant would like to proceed, 01:07:08.040 --> 01:07:09.960 then we can continue to proceed. 01:07:09.960 --> 01:07:13.880 I'm not a lawyer, this is above my paper. 01:07:13.880 --> 01:07:14.720 It's kind of how I see it. 01:07:14.720 --> 01:07:17.360 It's like, why would we deliberate and decide on this 01:07:17.360 --> 01:07:21.000 if there's an objection on that? 01:07:21.000 --> 01:07:25.520 So what do the smarter people who are paid like lawyers 01:07:25.520 --> 01:07:26.920 have to say about all this? 01:07:26.920 --> 01:07:28.240 I don't know. 01:07:28.240 --> 01:07:31.120 - Well, as far as advising the board, 01:07:31.120 --> 01:07:32.480 it's probably best in closed session 01:07:32.480 --> 01:07:35.000 if you want to talk through some of what that implication is 01:07:35.000 --> 01:07:36.800 of having the meeting go forward right now 01:07:36.800 --> 01:07:38.600 and make a decision. 01:07:38.600 --> 01:07:41.320 If your preference is to find a time 01:07:41.320 --> 01:07:43.320 when you all can meet before the 13th, 01:07:43.320 --> 01:07:45.400 I think that addresses the objection 01:07:45.400 --> 01:07:47.280 and there's no real reason to discuss 01:07:47.280 --> 01:07:48.960 the risk of moving forward if that's something 01:07:48.960 --> 01:07:50.400 that the board wants to move forward 01:07:50.400 --> 01:07:51.720 with looking at a date and a time 01:07:51.720 --> 01:07:53.440 that would work for everybody here. 01:07:56.480 --> 01:07:57.920 Nice, do we have a question? 01:07:57.920 --> 01:08:02.160 - Could I get the objection repeated? 01:08:02.160 --> 01:08:05.560 I just didn't hear it clearly before. 01:08:05.560 --> 01:08:08.560 - Of course, yeah, this is Trey Sargent. 01:08:08.560 --> 01:08:12.880 I'm objecting to the consideration of item, 01:08:12.880 --> 01:08:14.400 let me pull up your agenda so I can make sure 01:08:14.400 --> 01:08:15.280 I get it correct. 01:08:15.280 --> 01:08:23.600 Of item C to C, 01:08:25.240 --> 01:08:28.040 the consideration of the appeal for failure 01:08:28.040 --> 01:08:32.040 to comply with local government code section 211.010. 01:08:32.040 --> 01:08:41.240 - So Ms. Meisner, were you with us 01:08:41.240 --> 01:08:44.360 when we talked about that gas well at the, 01:08:44.360 --> 01:08:49.600 that other case with the trailer park? 01:08:49.600 --> 01:08:50.800 - Yes. 01:08:50.800 --> 01:08:52.960 - 'Cause that had to be like the Texas Legislature 01:08:52.960 --> 01:08:54.080 did a thing a couple of years ago 01:08:54.080 --> 01:08:59.080 we have to like have a hearing and then end that hearing 01:08:59.080 --> 01:09:02.720 and then have a totally new meeting to make the decision. 01:09:02.720 --> 01:09:06.200 And I guess the way how the agenda was posted, 01:09:06.200 --> 01:09:08.440 this was posted as one meeting. 01:09:08.440 --> 01:09:13.440 And so, if I understand your objection, Mr. Sargent, 01:09:13.440 --> 01:09:18.120 it's that we're having one continuous meeting 01:09:18.120 --> 01:09:22.320 and so we're not adhering to that law 01:09:22.320 --> 01:09:24.280 that the legislature passed a few years ago. 01:09:24.280 --> 01:09:26.720 Do I understand you correctly on that point? 01:09:26.720 --> 01:09:29.320 - Yes, my objection is that the procedure today 01:09:29.320 --> 01:09:32.280 is not comply with Texas local government code 01:09:32.280 --> 01:09:34.960 section 211.010. 01:09:34.960 --> 01:09:39.480 - I have a question. 01:09:39.480 --> 01:09:40.600 - Ms. Lane. 01:09:40.600 --> 01:09:42.880 - Yes, didn't staff send out two meetings 01:09:42.880 --> 01:09:46.520 that this is to close and the deliberation meeting 01:09:46.520 --> 01:09:49.080 is a brand new meeting, even though on the same day. 01:09:52.120 --> 01:09:53.680 It's not a continuous meeting in other words, 01:09:53.680 --> 01:09:55.440 in terms of what was sent to us. 01:09:55.440 --> 01:09:58.200 Maybe that's a question for Ron. 01:09:58.200 --> 01:10:03.360 - Yes, I can address that question. 01:10:03.360 --> 01:10:09.000 The agenda was to have two separate meetings 01:10:09.000 --> 01:10:13.560 where one would close and then reopen a special session 01:10:13.560 --> 01:10:16.000 for the deliberation. 01:10:16.000 --> 01:10:19.280 Unfortunately, the agenda did not have that separation. 01:10:19.280 --> 01:10:20.800 So we do have one. 01:10:20.800 --> 01:10:22.080 The intent was to do that. 01:10:22.080 --> 01:10:25.200 However, when posted, it did not contain that separation. 01:10:25.200 --> 01:10:30.960 - Fair enough. 01:10:30.960 --> 01:10:36.080 - So how do we proceed? 01:10:36.080 --> 01:10:38.520 Do we get out our calendars and find another date? 01:10:38.520 --> 01:10:41.760 - That's ideal, you can do that right now. 01:10:41.760 --> 01:10:42.760 - Let's do it y'all. 01:10:42.760 --> 01:10:45.720 This applicant has waited a very long time. 01:10:45.720 --> 01:10:47.920 So let's see what we can do to accommodate them. 01:10:50.280 --> 01:10:51.720 - This is Kate. 01:10:51.720 --> 01:10:55.320 Amber, do you mind just making some suggestions 01:10:55.320 --> 01:10:57.760 rather than us all going, well, I can do this 01:10:57.760 --> 01:10:59.480 and not can't do that. 01:10:59.480 --> 01:11:00.320 Thank you. 01:11:00.320 --> 01:11:03.040 - Well, I am almost never available. 01:11:03.040 --> 01:11:06.120 So I'm gonna maybe leave it to, I don't know like staff, 01:11:06.120 --> 01:11:10.320 like is there a preferred day for you all, day or time? 01:11:10.320 --> 01:11:13.760 Or can we generally agree on like evening is better 01:11:13.760 --> 01:11:18.760 than morning or yes, evening is better than morning? 01:11:18.760 --> 01:11:22.000 - Amber, I think since you said you're almost never available, 01:11:22.000 --> 01:11:23.520 you should lay out when you are. 01:11:23.520 --> 01:11:26.360 - I'm never available. 01:11:26.360 --> 01:11:30.200 Oh Lord, this week is crazy for me. 01:11:30.200 --> 01:11:33.880 I could be available next week. 01:11:33.880 --> 01:11:36.000 Oh no, that's Memorial Day. 01:11:36.000 --> 01:11:38.480 So I don't wanna ask staff to work that day. 01:11:38.480 --> 01:11:44.320 I could be available almost no evening next week. 01:11:44.320 --> 01:11:46.040 Oh my goodness, I'm so sorry. 01:11:46.040 --> 01:11:50.920 What about in two weeks on Monday, June 7th, 01:11:50.920 --> 01:11:52.840 sometime after 3 p.m. 01:11:52.840 --> 01:11:57.680 And again, all six of us have to be available, yeah? 01:11:57.680 --> 01:12:00.920 - Right, works for me. 01:12:00.920 --> 01:12:02.040 - I'll be right back. 01:12:02.040 --> 01:12:04.080 I'm gonna go grab my other calendar. 01:12:04.080 --> 01:12:05.440 - We'll grab your calendar. 01:12:05.440 --> 01:12:08.480 - I'm blocking mine now 01:12:08.480 --> 01:12:11.320 just so it doesn't change in the next five minutes. 01:12:15.000 --> 01:12:16.320 - I guess that works. 01:12:16.320 --> 01:12:19.920 - Good, Ms. Lane, does that work for you as well? 01:12:19.920 --> 01:12:39.360 - What time are you guys thinking? 01:12:39.360 --> 01:12:44.080 - Later is better than earlier for me. 01:12:44.080 --> 01:12:46.520 Like closer, I mean, we can maybe hammer that out, 01:12:46.520 --> 01:12:51.320 but sometime after three is, but later is better. 01:12:51.320 --> 01:12:53.240 Like 4.30 is even more ideal. 01:12:53.240 --> 01:12:56.280 Are you good? 01:12:56.280 --> 01:12:58.080 Okay, wow, that was magic. 01:12:58.080 --> 01:13:00.160 Wow, that was amazing. 01:13:00.160 --> 01:13:03.240 Okay, so now we're gonna hammer out a time. 01:13:03.240 --> 01:13:07.500 I prefer later rather than earlier. 01:13:07.500 --> 01:13:11.360 Could we say like four o'clock? 01:13:12.760 --> 01:13:15.800 Does that work for people or is that still too early? 01:13:15.800 --> 01:13:18.840 Four o'clock, yo, that's amazing. 01:13:18.840 --> 01:13:20.040 Look what we did. 01:13:20.040 --> 01:13:23.200 - Four o'clock works for staff as well. 01:13:23.200 --> 01:13:26.560 - Holy cow, all right, so, okay. 01:13:26.560 --> 01:13:30.240 So I'm gonna close the public hearing, yes? 01:13:30.240 --> 01:13:33.600 - Amber, before you do, before you close the public hearing, 01:13:33.600 --> 01:13:37.400 I just wanna make sure that we have the presentation 01:13:37.400 --> 01:13:40.160 of staff entered into the record just to make sure 01:13:40.160 --> 01:13:42.160 that was part of the public hearing item. 01:13:43.760 --> 01:13:47.240 - All I'm saying is that the presentation that staff made 01:13:47.240 --> 01:13:52.240 is, was made part of the record as far as the presentation. 01:13:52.240 --> 01:13:56.240 - And I have the same request for my presentation. 01:13:56.240 --> 01:14:03.920 - Amber, you look like you're. 01:14:03.920 --> 01:14:05.480 - I'm not sure if I was supposed to say like, 01:14:05.480 --> 01:14:06.680 like yes, we'll do that. 01:14:06.680 --> 01:14:08.760 I'm not a lawyer, so, but yeah. 01:14:08.760 --> 01:14:10.760 - Yes, you can mention those both on the record. 01:14:10.760 --> 01:14:14.520 They are, yes, those will be in the public record, yes? 01:14:14.520 --> 01:14:17.480 - Yes, thank you, thank you. 01:14:17.480 --> 01:14:19.680 - Line, that's not in the script, Ron. 01:14:19.680 --> 01:14:20.520 - Sorry about that. 01:14:20.520 --> 01:14:23.200 - Okay, okay, so Mr. Sargent and Mr. Hanna, 01:14:23.200 --> 01:14:26.320 does June 7th at four o'clock work for you both as well? 01:14:26.320 --> 01:14:28.800 - This is Trey, it works for me. 01:14:28.800 --> 01:14:31.400 - Yes, that works for me. 01:14:31.400 --> 01:14:34.880 - Good, that was like magic, that was amazing. 01:14:34.880 --> 01:14:38.160 Okay, so I will close the public hearing 01:14:38.160 --> 01:14:40.400 and both the presentations are included 01:14:40.400 --> 01:14:43.840 in the public record for all of that. 01:14:43.840 --> 01:14:48.840 We are going to postpone item two C to June 7th at 4 p.m. 01:14:48.840 --> 01:14:56.080 At that point, we will deliberate on the presentations 01:14:56.080 --> 01:14:58.560 that we heard this evening, the information that we gathered 01:14:58.560 --> 01:15:02.040 and we will make a decision at that time, correct? 01:15:02.040 --> 01:15:05.560 - I have one question. 01:15:05.560 --> 01:15:10.120 Will our June 7th meeting be Zoom or in-person? 01:15:11.400 --> 01:15:14.600 - It will be virtual, it will be Zoom, yes. 01:15:14.600 --> 01:15:16.760 - Thank you, that makes it easier as well. 01:15:16.760 --> 01:15:19.160 Good, thank you, good question. 01:15:19.160 --> 01:15:21.120 - Yes, good question. 01:15:21.120 --> 01:15:26.120 - So with that, with all these papers, 01:15:26.120 --> 01:15:29.120 are there any concluding items to be heard this evening? 01:15:29.120 --> 01:15:36.760 No, okay, so with that, I will close the meeting for today. 01:15:39.000 --> 01:15:41.480 The time now is 4/21. 01:15:41.480 --> 01:15:44.320 Thank you all for your time and your attention. 01:15:44.320 --> 01:15:47.800 I know sometimes it can be tricky to make these meetings 01:15:47.800 --> 01:15:49.920 and I'm really grateful to everyone for being here. 01:15:49.920 --> 01:15:52.320 I'm very grateful that we all can make June 7th 01:15:52.320 --> 01:15:53.160 work for the applicants. 01:15:53.160 --> 01:15:54.880 They've waited a very long time for an answer. 01:15:54.880 --> 01:15:57.280 So thank you for making this possible. 01:15:57.280 --> 01:16:00.120 We can meet again in two more weeks, yeah? 01:16:00.120 --> 01:16:01.080 - Yes. 01:16:01.080 --> 01:16:02.160 - Thank you. 01:16:02.160 --> 01:16:03.000 - Thank you everyone. 01:16:03.000 --> 01:16:04.000 - Thank you all very much. 01:16:04.000 --> 01:16:04.840 - Thank you guys.