1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,000 - Good afternoon. 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:04,480 My name is Amber Briggle. 3 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:06,680 I'm serving as the chair of the zoning board of adjustments 4 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:08,320 here in the city of Denton. 5 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:10,720 I hereby call this meeting of the city of Denton's 6 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:13,520 ZBA zoning board of adjustments into session. 7 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:18,520 The time is 3.06 and the date is May 24th, 2021. 8 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:20,660 The board consists of seven regular members 9 00:00:20,660 --> 00:00:21,640 and two alternates. 10 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:23,800 A quorum is present. 11 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:25,080 Therefore, we're ready to proceed 12 00:00:25,080 --> 00:00:27,200 with our regularly scheduled agenda. 13 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:28,760 Prior to commencing our hearing, 14 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:30,400 I'd like to just review our meeting format 15 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:32,720 just for the benefit of those in attendance. 16 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:34,480 So the members of ZBA, 17 00:00:34,480 --> 00:00:36,280 we're all residents of the city of Denton. 18 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:38,440 We serve voluntarily and we've been appointed 19 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:40,600 to our positions by the city council. 20 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:44,840 It takes six votes to reverse or modify any determination 21 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:47,840 of an administrative official on appeal. 22 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:50,040 Citizens wishing to speak over the phone, 23 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:55,040 during the meeting may call 940-349-7800. 24 00:00:55,420 --> 00:01:00,420 Again, 940-349-7800. 25 00:01:00,420 --> 00:01:02,420 All speakers are to state their name 26 00:01:02,420 --> 00:01:04,720 and their address for the record. 27 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:06,380 In consideration of other speakers, 28 00:01:06,380 --> 00:01:07,560 please keep your comments brief 29 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:09,360 and only provide information that's relevant 30 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:11,020 to the actual agenda items. 31 00:01:11,020 --> 00:01:13,120 And after the hearing and board discussion, 32 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:15,080 a motion will be entertained. 33 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:18,120 We will now commence with our regularly scheduled agenda 34 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,120 and item number one on our agenda 35 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:23,640 is applied to both US and Texas flags. 36 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:25,920 So there's a flag behind Richard. 37 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:27,560 So we'll look in that direction. 38 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:33,400 - I pledge allegiance to flag of the United States of America 39 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:36,040 and to the Republic for which it stands, 40 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:39,680 one nation under God, indivisible, 41 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:42,240 with liberty and justice for all. 42 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:46,040 - And to the Texas flag, I guess behind, 43 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:46,880 well, it's not behind. 44 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:48,200 That's the Denton flag behind that. 45 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:50,520 So imagine the Texas flag in your head. 46 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:51,880 (laughing) 47 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:56,560 - Congratulations to the section one state under God, 48 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:57,880 one indivisible. 49 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:00,080 Okay. 50 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:06,120 Item two A is ZBA 21-014 considering the approval 51 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:08,800 of the minutes from January 25th. 52 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:13,600 Every member should have gotten a copy of those minutes. 53 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:15,040 Were there any, it was really brief 54 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:16,460 'cause we just kind of had a briefing. 55 00:02:16,460 --> 00:02:19,660 Were there any corrections to the minutes? 56 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,600 And so hearing none, is there a motion to approve? 57 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,360 - I will move. 58 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:29,640 - Okay. - So moved. 59 00:02:29,640 --> 00:02:30,980 - Great, and a second? 60 00:02:30,980 --> 00:02:37,800 - I'll second. 61 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:39,260 - Thank you from Ms. Meisner. 62 00:02:39,260 --> 00:02:40,960 So having received a motion and a second, 63 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:42,880 is there any further discussion? 64 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,840 Hearing none, we're gonna vote at a call 65 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:48,600 on each of you individually. 66 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:50,520 So I'm just gonna go on my screen. 67 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,680 So Ms. Meisner, how do you vote? 68 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:54,760 - Yes. 69 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:55,700 - Mr. Redwine? 70 00:02:55,700 --> 00:02:58,540 - Yes. 71 00:02:58,540 --> 00:03:00,040 - Ms. Linus? 72 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:01,320 - Yes. 73 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:02,800 - Ms. Lane? 74 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:03,640 - Yes. 75 00:03:03,640 --> 00:03:05,180 - And Mr. Njaka? 76 00:03:05,180 --> 00:03:06,020 - Yes. 77 00:03:06,020 --> 00:03:06,860 - And I also vote yes. 78 00:03:06,860 --> 00:03:09,440 So that's six in favor and zero against. 79 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:10,840 So the minutes are approved. 80 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,960 Item two B-- - Did you call on Prince? 81 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:15,280 - I did. 82 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:16,840 - Yeah, my last name is Njaka. 83 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:18,080 You may have not known that. 84 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:18,920 - Oh, gotcha. 85 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:26,480 - Item two B is ZBA 21-0001. 86 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:28,960 Hold a public hearing and consider an appeal 87 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,000 of an administrative decision regarding the interpretation 88 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,920 of the use specific standards for automotive repair major 89 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:39,640 for property located at 3008 South I-35E. 90 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:43,320 The appellant is Frederick Enterprises, LLC. 91 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:45,440 Now I will swear in the witnesses for today's hearing. 92 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,440 So all witnesses who will provide testimony 93 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,640 of today's hearing, please turn on your camera 94 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:53,040 and raise your right hand. 95 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,720 Do they have cameras, maybe? 96 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:58,240 - Chair, if I can interject real quick. 97 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,840 If Billy can let the applicant know, 98 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:05,840 I think they are going to be speaking in or presenting. 99 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:14,000 - They're in the meeting and both on phone. 100 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,200 - Both on phone, so I'm going to assume 101 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:18,960 that their right hands are raised. 102 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,800 Mr. Hanna and Mr. Sargent, are you, 103 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,320 you are speaking and swearing you both in? 104 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:29,680 - Yes, I am, I'm here. 105 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:30,880 Great, this is Gray Hanna. 106 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:32,200 Right hand is raised. 107 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:34,000 - Great, great. - This is Trey Sargent. 108 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:35,440 My hand is raised as well. 109 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:36,280 - Oh, great, thank you. 110 00:04:36,280 --> 00:04:39,960 Okay, under penalty of perjury, do you swear or affirm 111 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:42,880 that any testimony or information you provide 112 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:45,440 or any statement you make before this board is complete, 113 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,120 true and correct to the best of your knowledge and ability? 114 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:50,560 If so, please answer, I do. 115 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:51,840 - I do. 116 00:04:51,840 --> 00:04:52,680 - I do. 117 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:53,680 - Great, thank you. 118 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,480 Okay, so today we're talking about whether to affirm, 119 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,120 reverse, and hold or impart or amend or modify a decision 120 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:04,680 or interpretation made by the administrative official. 121 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,040 There's information in the backup agenda. 122 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,080 I'm not going to go through the whole thing on the script, 123 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:11,280 but if you're curious to see what the DDC says 124 00:05:11,280 --> 00:05:13,320 and what the different definitions are, 125 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,080 you can find that in the backup agenda 126 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:18,240 on the City of Denton website. 127 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,560 But I will go through how the hearing is gonna go, 128 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:22,040 because this is very important 129 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:23,800 and I wanna make sure everyone understands what's going on. 130 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:25,840 So bear with me, it's a little bit long. 131 00:05:25,840 --> 00:05:27,800 So the hearing procedure will be as follows. 132 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:31,760 Number one, I'm gonna open the public hearing in a second. 133 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:34,960 Two, the city staff presents testimony, evidence, 134 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,000 and arguments to support the administrative official's 135 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,280 decision with potential questions 136 00:05:39,280 --> 00:05:42,080 of the city staff from the board. 137 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:45,360 Three, the applicant presents testimony, evidence, 138 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,280 and arguments to support the appeal with potential questions 139 00:05:48,280 --> 00:05:50,720 of the applicant from the board. 140 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:54,600 Four, members of the public may provide comments 141 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,920 with potential questions of speakers from the board. 142 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,560 Five, city staff will be given an opportunity 143 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:01,760 to make rebuttal comments 144 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:03,920 with potential questions from the board. 145 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,920 Six, the applicant will be given an opportunity 146 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,680 to make rebuttal comments with potential questions 147 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:10,520 from the board. 148 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,920 Seven, members of the public who previously provided input 149 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,240 will have the opportunity to make a rebuttal 150 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,120 with potential questions again from the board. 151 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,720 Eight, the city staff and/or the applicants 152 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,640 will answer any further questions of the board. 153 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,880 Nine, upon conclusion of this testimony, 154 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:31,080 evidence and arguments and any questions and answers. 155 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:32,280 And when the chair has determined 156 00:06:32,280 --> 00:06:34,880 that the board has adequate information to make a decision, 157 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,360 the chair will close the public hearing. 158 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,800 And then 10, I'm gonna open the next agenda item 159 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,200 to deliberate and decide the appeal. 160 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:44,360 So upon the completion of the board's deliberation, 161 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:46,800 the board shall render an unbiased decision 162 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,200 based on the record and support by reasons 163 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:51,200 and findings of facts. 164 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,000 Is that all clear as mud? 165 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:54,160 Fantastic, good, okay. 166 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:56,960 And considering the appeal, 167 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:59,320 this board shall consider the facts and information 168 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,040 in the administrative officials letter interpretation, 169 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,680 the applicant's appeal letter and testimony 170 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:05,640 presented in today's hearing. 171 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,560 A lot of this is also found in the backup agenda, 172 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:10,080 so I'm excited to kind of hear it 173 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,160 from people actually today. 174 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,680 And our consideration and evaluation of the requirements 175 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:16,840 of the applicable standards from the DVC. 176 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:21,840 So I now open the hearing at 3.13 p.m. 177 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:25,680 First up is will the city please present testimony, 178 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:27,240 evidence and arguments to support 179 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:29,160 the administrative officials' decision? 180 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:31,720 - Great, thank you, chair. 181 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:35,480 I'm gonna have Julie White make the presentation for staff. 182 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:38,920 Good evening, let me share my screen 183 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:43,800 and we will go through the presentation. 184 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:49,200 All right, so this is ZVA 21-0001, 185 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:51,440 Automotive Repair Administrative Appeal. 186 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:56,240 Before we get into staff's interpretation 187 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:58,680 and the appeal information, 188 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:00,400 I wanna talk a little bit of background 189 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:02,840 about how this came to the fore. 190 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,760 So the subject property is located along I-35, 191 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:08,760 the property is outlined there in yellow. 192 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:10,880 It's about 1.98 acres. 193 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,600 It has the zoning of Highway Corridor District. 194 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:17,480 Earlier this year, the applicant approached the city 195 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:19,840 and requested a pre-application conference. 196 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:22,000 That is a meeting that the city hails 197 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,400 with potential applicants to talk about processes 198 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,840 related to the development of a site 199 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:32,320 and provide comments and information 200 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,680 regarding their proposed use and development. 201 00:08:35,680 --> 00:08:40,280 In this instance, they requested information 202 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,480 regarding the feasibility of redeveloping 203 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:44,000 an existing retail site 204 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,600 with an automotive repair major use. 205 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:51,360 As the 2019 DDC has use-specific standards 206 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:52,440 for that proposed use, 207 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:54,760 it is permitted in Highway Corridor 208 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:56,400 with those use-specific standards, 209 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:57,680 and there are three of them. 210 00:08:57,680 --> 00:08:59,880 First, all repairs, services, and storage 211 00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:03,560 shall be conducted within an entirely enclosed structure. 212 00:09:03,560 --> 00:09:06,840 Second, open storage of wrecked or inoperable cars, 213 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:08,520 discarded tires, auto parts, 214 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:11,200 or other similar materials shall be prohibited. 215 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:14,840 And then finally, sales of vehicles shall be prohibited. 216 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:16,480 At that pre-application conference, 217 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:20,960 staff provided information that cars awaiting service 218 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:24,440 for this use would constitute open storage 219 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:28,480 and must be kept within an entirely enclosed structure. 220 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,720 Based upon that feedback, 221 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:36,320 the applicant requested a formal written interpretation 222 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:38,160 from city staff. 223 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:43,360 This is a process that the 2019 Development Code has. 224 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,400 It's in subsection 2.8.6. 225 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,560 And it provides for a uniform mechanism 226 00:09:49,560 --> 00:09:52,560 for rendering formal interpretations of the DDC. 227 00:09:52,560 --> 00:09:56,280 The director is responsible for these interpretations, 228 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:57,880 and it can be related to the zoning 229 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:01,800 subdivision provisions, the text of the DDC. 230 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,120 And it includes, but not limited to, 231 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:09,080 interpretations as to which is the stricter 232 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,640 and thus controlling provision in case of conflict 233 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:13,280 with this DDC and other provisions 234 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:15,280 of the Municipal Code of Ordinances, 235 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,680 interpretations of compliance with a condition of approval, 236 00:10:18,680 --> 00:10:22,800 interpretations of whether an unspecified use falls 237 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:25,120 within a use classification, use category, 238 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:27,960 or use type allowed in a zoning district, 239 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:31,560 and then to interpretations of a zoning district boundary. 240 00:10:31,560 --> 00:10:34,960 So those are the potential interpretations 241 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:36,000 that the director could make, 242 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:37,640 but it's not limited to those. 243 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:42,640 Following that process, 244 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,000 the Denton Development Code provides, 245 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,520 there are considerations that the director 246 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:54,200 has to keep in mind when making that interpretation. 247 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:56,560 And those are listed in the Denton Development Code 248 00:10:56,560 --> 00:10:58,080 and in your backup material. 249 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:00,320 They must follow the rules of construction. 250 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,240 Those rules of construction are in sub-chapter nine 251 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:04,640 of the Denton Development Code, 252 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:06,760 and that words and phrases shall be construed 253 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:09,720 according to the common and approved usage of the language, 254 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:12,400 but technical words and phrases and such others 255 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:16,440 may have acquired a peculiar and appropriate meeting in law 256 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,320 and shall be construed and understood 257 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:20,600 according to that meeting. 258 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:22,400 So those are those rules of construction 259 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:24,080 that have to be considered. 260 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:27,160 And then those considerations that the director 261 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,680 has to follow when making an interpretation 262 00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:31,960 are first, the clear and plain meaning 263 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:33,480 of the provisions wording. 264 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,120 Second, the intended purpose of the provision. 265 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:41,440 Third, the intent to give every provision meaning. 266 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:44,520 Fourth, the general purposes served by the DDC. 267 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,360 And then finally, consistency with the comprehensive plan. 268 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:49,720 We're gonna go over these again, 269 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:51,280 so you don't have to commit those to memory. 270 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:52,800 We'll talk through them again. 271 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:58,040 So first of all, we are gonna talk through 272 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:00,640 those considerations, but I first wanna talk about 273 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:05,160 that intent of these use-specific standards. 274 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:08,040 So when looking at that legislative intent, 275 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,880 we first went back to the 2002 Denton Development Code. 276 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:16,840 The use was a little different under the 2002 DDC, 277 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:17,960 as was the zoning. 278 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:21,840 The subject property had a zoning designation of RCR1. 279 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,520 Vehicle repair was not a permitted use 280 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:25,840 in that zoning district. 281 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:30,080 So there were also no use-specific standards related to it. 282 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:32,320 Vehicle repair was defined as a business 283 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:34,640 providing vehicle repair or other body work 284 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:35,840 to the motoring public. 285 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:38,600 So you can see those pullouts 286 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:40,800 for the 2002 Denton Development Code 287 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:42,800 and then that zoning map. 288 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:48,320 In 2010, we've got that property maintenance code 289 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:52,280 that also speaks to outdoor storage. 290 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:54,520 Two provisions I wanna highlight, 291 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:58,880 and this is in the Code of Ordinances, section 17-34. 292 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:04,480 And section A of that talks about the impacts, 293 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:08,800 those visual impacts for inoperable vehicles 294 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:10,840 being stored outside. 295 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,640 It also talks about that they should be screened 296 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:15,920 from the right of way or adjacent property 297 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,800 by means of either a solid opaque fence 298 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,320 or shall be enclosed within a building. 299 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:28,360 Next, there was the 2019 Denton Development Code. 300 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,920 The property was rezoned to Highway Commercial District 301 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:36,920 and we also got a new use-specific standards 302 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:41,920 related to automotive repair shop major. 303 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:47,480 In that, we got those use-specific standards 304 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:50,120 that we talked about, that the all repairs and storage 305 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:52,680 should be conducted within an enclosed structure, 306 00:13:52,680 --> 00:13:56,800 the open storage of wrecked or inoperable cars is prohibited 307 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,320 and then sales of vehicles shall be prohibited. 308 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:04,320 So the City Council went further on that, 309 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:09,520 the screening of those inoperable cars 310 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:13,560 to be more specific within the use-specific standards 311 00:14:13,560 --> 00:14:15,200 in the 2019. 312 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,840 So in the 2002, it wasn't permitted. 313 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,240 Then we had the Code of Ordinances, 314 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:22,920 we talked about it needed to be screened 315 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:27,320 and then the City Council further clarified in 2019 316 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:29,840 that that open storage was prohibited. 317 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:35,840 So based upon staff's analysis, 318 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,360 we did provide a formal interpretation 319 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:40,840 of those use-specific standards to the applicant. 320 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:44,280 We provided them to them on March 25th of this year. 321 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,480 And the three items on your screen 322 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:49,960 are those interpretation. 323 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:52,000 First, that automobiles awaiting repairs 324 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:55,960 for less than 24 hours do not constitute storage. 325 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,440 Second, any vehicles intended for service 326 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,400 and stored outside of a structure for more than 24 hours 327 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,160 are classified as open storage and must be contained 328 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:06,600 within an entirely enclosed structure 329 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,360 in accordance with those use-specific standards. 330 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,120 And then third, while outdoor storage 331 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:13,680 may be generally permitted as an accessory use 332 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,280 under the provisions of the Zoning District, 333 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,000 the use-specific standards for the primary use 334 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,920 of automotive repair major prohibit outdoor storage 335 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,880 of any elements related to the use. 336 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:28,720 So now we're gonna go over those considerations 337 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:30,920 related to that formal interpretation 338 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:34,960 and just kind of talk through staff's analysis of that. 339 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:36,800 So the first one, if you recall, 340 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:39,920 the clear and plain meaning of the provisions wording 341 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:43,640 as defined by the meaning and significance given 342 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:45,960 specific terms used in the provision 343 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,480 as established in sub-chapter nine definitions 344 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,800 and by the common and accepted usage of that term. 345 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,600 And remember, we're using that construction 346 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:56,280 that we talked about. 347 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:59,040 So first of all, the use-specific standard number one, 348 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:01,080 that all repair services and storage 349 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,480 shall be conducted within an entirely enclosed structure. 350 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:06,840 The clear and plain meaning stipulates 351 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,960 that all activities and materials associated with the use 352 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,680 must be maintained within a structure 353 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:14,320 with four walls and a roof. 354 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:16,720 The wording does not provide special exceptions 355 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:20,880 or carve-outs for any specific activities or materials. 356 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,000 Second, use-specific standard two, 357 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,480 open storage of wrecked or inoperable cars, 358 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:29,080 discarded tires, auto parts or other similar materials 359 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:30,520 shall be prohibited. 360 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:32,640 This specifies items which are prohibited 361 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,200 from being stored in an open manner. 362 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:38,880 Open storage of wrecked or inoperable cars 363 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:41,160 or vehicles is not permitted. 364 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,160 I wanna go a little deeper into both of these 365 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:44,960 in the next couple of slides. 366 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:47,760 So first, I wanna talk about the meaning 367 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:49,800 of open or open storage. 368 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:55,320 So the DDC does not define open storage. 369 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:59,400 So what we're gonna look at is those standard definitions 370 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:01,960 for open or open storage and then talk about 371 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:05,400 how that also relates to other DDC defined terms. 372 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,040 So first of all, we looked at the Cambridge Dictionary. 373 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,520 It defines open is not closed in or covered. 374 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:15,000 A Webster Dictionary defines open is not covered 375 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,480 with a roof, with a top roof or lid. 376 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,680 It indicates the clear meaning prohibits any storage 377 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:23,720 of items outside of a structure with a wall, 378 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:24,840 with a roof or walls. 379 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:27,840 So just based upon that clear meaning of open, 380 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:33,320 it indicates to staff that those use specific standards 381 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:35,840 would require four walls and a roof 382 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:38,200 in order to meet the requirements. 383 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:42,840 We also looked at those related DDC defined terms, 384 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:45,800 first outdoor storage and then second outside storage. 385 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,800 And those are in sub chapter nine of the 2019 DDC. 386 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:53,760 And we looked to those to provide a basis 387 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:56,120 for that specific time limitation 388 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:01,280 because what we've got is that 24 hours 389 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:02,320 in that interpretation. 390 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:05,040 That's really when an item transitions to that storage. 391 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,280 So it really sort of creates the difference 392 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,720 between somebody may be getting an oil change who's there 393 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:14,320 and will be parked on a very short period of time. 394 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:19,320 And then those vehicles which are there for long-term repair. 395 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:25,240 So outdoor storage as a principal use a property or area 396 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,160 used for the long-term more than 24 hours storage 397 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:32,680 of materials, merchandise products, stock supplies, 398 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,560 machines, operable vehicles, equipment, 399 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:38,600 manufacturing materials or other items not kept 400 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:41,960 within a structure having at least four walls and a roof. 401 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,800 New or used automobile sales and leasing display 402 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:48,560 and parking and other outdoor sales and display areas 403 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,880 shall not be defined as outdoor storage, outside storage. 404 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:55,280 So once again, that gives that 24 hour limitation. 405 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,360 And it also distinguishes between parking 406 00:18:58,360 --> 00:19:01,120 and those vehicles that are there for the service. 407 00:19:01,120 --> 00:19:03,560 And then second outdoors, outside storage, 408 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:05,840 the storage of objects, items, products 409 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,480 or other materials outside an enclosed building 410 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:10,880 and not intended for immediate sale. 411 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:15,600 The second term I wanna talk about 412 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:17,640 is that wrecked or inoperable cars. 413 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:19,800 What does that mean? 414 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,440 So given the nature of automotive repair major 415 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,680 which is primarily engaged in providing vehicle repair, 416 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,360 bodywork, mechanical servicing and or painting, 417 00:19:28,360 --> 00:19:30,440 it is reasonable to construe 418 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,360 that except for employees vehicles and or those 419 00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:36,160 which are awaiting immediate maintenance 420 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,520 such as oil changes or tire replacement, 421 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:42,040 vehicles parked on site are damaged and or inoperable, 422 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,520 meaning the common accepted usage 423 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:46,000 of wrecked or inoperable car. 424 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:50,040 So if a car is there and is not for an employee 425 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,400 or somebody short-term visiting, 426 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,480 it really does meet that definition 427 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:56,000 of wrecked or inoperable cars 428 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:57,880 because they're there for repair. 429 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:03,160 Number two, consideration. 430 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:04,800 The intended purpose of the provision 431 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,160 as indicated by purpose statements, 432 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:08,960 its context and consistency 433 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:11,880 with surrounding related provisions 434 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,600 and any legislative history to its adoption. 435 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:18,120 This is goes into that legislative history 436 00:20:18,120 --> 00:20:21,240 that we talked about at the beginning of the presentation, 437 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:25,800 how vehicle repair has been treated in this general area 438 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:31,320 from 2002 until now and then also how the city 439 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:36,320 has kind of reviewed that storage of wrecked cars on site 440 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:38,520 or inoperable cars. 441 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,760 Additionally, the purpose of the standards 442 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,840 is to ensure appropriate design and intensity for the use. 443 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:48,160 So just broadly, our use specific standards 444 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:50,560 are really written to ensure that a use 445 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:53,560 would be appropriate in any given area. 446 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,240 In this instance, that vehicle repair 447 00:20:56,240 --> 00:21:00,720 does require those use specific standards in HC district. 448 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:05,720 And so it is the intent of that use specific standard 449 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:10,200 to make sure that it is appropriate design 450 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,160 for that zoning district. 451 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,600 The DDC distinguishes automobile related uses 452 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,720 which require vehicle storage within an enclosed structure 453 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:20,560 from automobile related uses 454 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,040 that allow outdoor vehicle storage. 455 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,640 So for instance, automobile fuel sales, 456 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:27,880 automotive repair shop minor, 457 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,560 those also prohibit open storage of wrecked 458 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:32,040 or inoperable cars. 459 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:34,440 However, automotive wrecking service, 460 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:38,080 impound lot, junkyard and salvage yard 461 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,280 uses authorized stored vehicles to be outside 462 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:42,960 if they are screened from public view. 463 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,680 So the code makes that distinction 464 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:50,680 between that vehicle repair 465 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:54,720 and then those impound junkyard or salvage yard. 466 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,080 So they do treat those differently. 467 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:00,320 The definition of outdoor storage, 468 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:03,800 new or used automobile sales and leasing display 469 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,840 and parking are not considered outside storage. 470 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,400 And then because automotive repair major use 471 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,520 does not authorize outdoor screening of stored vehicles 472 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:17,160 and is not a new or used automobile sales 473 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:18,440 and lease display, 474 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,800 the DDC requires the storage of vehicles 475 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,920 to be within an enclosed structure. 476 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:32,040 Additionally, under that 2002 DDC automotive repair, 477 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,640 that this type of use was classified as vehicle repair 478 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:40,640 and it was permitted in more intense type 479 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:44,000 of zoning districts, 480 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,480 consider community mixed use employment, 481 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,920 a regional center commercial downtown employment center, 482 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,120 commercial and employment and center industrial 483 00:22:52,120 --> 00:22:53,840 and then our industrial centers. 484 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:58,480 And then city council through the adoption of the 2019 DDC 485 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,920 sought to establish updated standards 486 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,160 consistent with the comprehensive plan 487 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,600 and that's where these new use specific standards 488 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,800 came in to implement that high quality urban design 489 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,400 as envisioned by the Denton plan 2030. 490 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:15,120 Number three, consideration, 491 00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:17,680 the intent to give every provision meaning. 492 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:19,560 The interpretation provides clarity 493 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,680 as to how to apply automotive repair major 494 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,840 use specific standards related to storage and open storage. 495 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:31,840 So this interpretation does provide that more full explanation 496 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,360 of those requirements. 497 00:23:38,360 --> 00:23:41,120 And then the general purposes served by this DDC 498 00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:44,880 is set forth in section 1.2 purpose. 499 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:49,880 So purpose 1.2.4 is to improve the city's appearance 500 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:56,400 and purpose 1.2.7 encourage the appropriate use 501 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,320 of land, buildings and structure. 502 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,320 These use specific standards, 503 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,040 not only for this particular use, 504 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,120 but more broadly how use specific standards 505 00:24:06,120 --> 00:24:08,280 are used within the city of Denton 506 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,240 are to further these purposes 507 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,880 outlined in the Denton development code. 508 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,960 And then finally, consistency with the comprehensive plan. 509 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,800 The interpretation ensures high quality urban design 510 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,080 as envisioned by that comprehensive plan. 511 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:26,080 So it does require that any cars awaiting repair 512 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:32,280 kept over 24 hours on the site 513 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,120 would have to be stored within an enclosed structure 514 00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:40,120 to ensure any visual impacts related to those cars 515 00:24:40,120 --> 00:24:45,960 would be muted and mitigated with that enclosed structure. 516 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:50,520 So finally, just wanted to reiterate again 517 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:55,400 that staff interpretation of those use specific standards 518 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,920 and sub chapter five of the Denton development code. 519 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,720 And really the purpose of this is to clarify 520 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,120 what is open storage. 521 00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:09,200 First, automobiles awaiting repairs for less than 24 hours 522 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,600 do not constitute storage. 523 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,440 Any vehicles intended for service 524 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,560 and stored outside of a structure for more than 24 hours 525 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,120 are classified as open storage 526 00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:22,240 and must be contained within an entirely enclosed structure 527 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,040 in accordance with the use specific standards. 528 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,440 And then while outdoor storage may be generally permitted 529 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:31,080 as an accessory use in the HC zoning district, 530 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,280 the use specific standards of that vehicle, 531 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:38,360 automotive repair shop major prohibit outdoor storage 532 00:25:38,360 --> 00:25:40,840 of any elements related to the use. 533 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:42,280 Those really control. 534 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:49,600 So the review, the administrative appeal 535 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:51,240 is really a two step process. 536 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,880 So this first step is this public hearing process. 537 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:59,880 Once that's closed, it will then open that second agenda item 538 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:04,120 and that's where that decision would be made. 539 00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:06,600 And then we do have criteria for approval 540 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,040 for an administrative appeal. 541 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,960 They are in DDC section 2.8.3D. 542 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,880 The first is facts stated in the application 543 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,440 as presented by the appellant and or the director. 544 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,920 And then two, the requirements and the intent 545 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,520 of the applicable standards from this DDC 546 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,360 compared to the written decision that is being appealed. 547 00:26:27,360 --> 00:26:29,160 And that concludes my presentation 548 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,720 and I'll be happy to answer any questions. 549 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:38,560 - Does anyone have any questions for Ms. Wyatt? 550 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:42,720 - Let me stop sharing my screen. 551 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,520 Oh. 552 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:52,760 So no questions. 553 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:56,440 Ms. Wyatt, I think you did a great job 554 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,480 with those, the definitions just walk us 555 00:26:58,480 --> 00:26:59,920 right on through the DDC. 556 00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:02,560 I learned a lot today, so thank you. 557 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,480 So there's no questions from Ms. Wyatt, 558 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,480 then I believe it's the appellant's turn 559 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,520 to present their testimony, evidence and arguments. 560 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:12,680 Do we have a screen share 561 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,600 so we can see what y'all are talking about too? 562 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:16,440 'Cause I really wish there were more pictures 563 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,440 in the backup, so I could have seen it. 564 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,360 - The applicant has a presentation 565 00:27:22,360 --> 00:27:25,080 and I will be running through as they talk through it. 566 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,040 So we're gonna work together. 567 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,400 - All right, y'all take it away. 568 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,040 - Thanks, this is Trey Sargent. 569 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:37,040 My address is 512 West Hickory, Denton, Texas, 76201. 570 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,240 I'm an attorney, I represent the appellant. 571 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:41,840 And first of all, I wanna thank you 572 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:43,240 for taking time out of your afternoon. 573 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:44,880 I know it's a business day 574 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:46,720 and that might not have been the most convenient thing, 575 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,800 but both myself and my client appreciate your time 576 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:50,640 this afternoon. 577 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,720 Julie's gonna drive on the presentation, 578 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,080 but as I think you all are aware, 579 00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,920 there's quite a bit of delay between the video 580 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,320 that I'll be able to see whenever I'm speaking with you. 581 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,520 So I just ask for your patience on that front. 582 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,960 It's about 45 seconds behind, I think. 583 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,080 So I'm gonna do my best to keep track 584 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,080 with my own presentation here. 585 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,520 Julie, can you let me know whether or not 586 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:17,680 my first slide is up? 587 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,280 - Your title slide is up. 588 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,040 - Okay, great, would you go ahead and go on to the next one? 589 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:28,520 And Julie, would you mind letting me know 590 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:29,680 once you've done that? 591 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:36,280 - It's there. 592 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:37,200 - Okay, thank you. 593 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:41,200 So this is sort of a concept plan, 594 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,120 an elevation frontage for what my clients would like 595 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,280 to put in at this property. 596 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:50,160 Say, paint, body shop, service king collision repair, 597 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:53,200 the company is well established. 598 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,880 They've got several hundred locations. 599 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,560 And I think an important thing to consider here 600 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,360 at the outset is the type of work that's done 601 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:04,080 at one of these locations. 602 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,040 This is not a wrecking yard. 603 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:11,040 This is not tearing down vehicles to be parted out 604 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,760 for salvage purposes. 605 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,480 There's no dismantling. 606 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,800 The vehicles that are serviced at locations like this 607 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:21,000 have been a fender bender. 608 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,400 They've backed into a tree. 609 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:29,360 It's not a full tear down type of job. 610 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:33,440 The typical vehicle that comes to a location here 611 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,240 and stays in the parking lot 612 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,240 is roughly three to seven days in the parking lot. 613 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,800 So on this first slide, you'll see over to the left side, 614 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:43,380 there's a screening fence. 615 00:29:43,380 --> 00:29:48,200 And the proposed use for my clients 616 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,440 is to be able to store vehicles 617 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,560 that are awaiting service behind that wall 618 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,560 so that nobody can see it. 619 00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:01,480 And then after space clears up in the shop, 620 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,880 get them in there, get them serviced and get them out. 621 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,120 Julie, would you go to the next slide, please? 622 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:13,000 - It's at the next one. 623 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:14,280 - Thank you. 624 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,600 So as you all are familiar, 625 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,960 this is the current improvements at the location, 626 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:22,080 my flooring America. 627 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:27,080 They were immediately south of Buckees along I-35. 628 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:32,120 High traffic area, but no dense residential uses nearby. 629 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:36,000 So we're in a pretty heavily commercially zoned 630 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,200 and currently used area. 631 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,360 Would you please go to the next slide, Julie? 632 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,000 - Done. 633 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:44,360 - This again shows the location 634 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,520 of the subject property on I-35. 635 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:51,600 This is before Buckees was built, as you can see. 636 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,080 I wanna talk a bit, Julie, if you could go to the next slide. 637 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,000 I wanna talk a bit about the highway corridors 638 00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:59,000 on any district. 639 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,960 There are, on the map you're looking at, 640 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,720 the locations depicted in bright red are highway corridor 641 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,960 and we're gonna go north to south along I-35. 642 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:10,320 Just so you have a, 643 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:12,140 I want you to think about what you've seen 644 00:31:12,140 --> 00:31:14,200 when you're driven past. 645 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:18,040 So that we can all kind of have an idea for what exists now 646 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:19,880 and what is gonna exist there in the future. 647 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,680 These red lights along I-35, 648 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:27,680 this is north of university between the loop and 380. 649 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:29,400 So along these locations, 650 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:34,240 we have lots of heavy equipment rental and RV sales 651 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,080 and a fair amount of vacant land. 652 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,840 Julie, if you could go to the next slide. 653 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:41,800 The HC district continues. 654 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:45,000 This is between Fort Worth drive and Dallas drive 655 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,200 where it connects to I-35. 656 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,960 Again, bright red locations are zoned HC. 657 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:55,880 Many of these locations are automotive repair sales, 658 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,240 automotive sales, restaurant, vacant land, 659 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:00,480 that type of improvement. 660 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:04,480 And then finally, if you'll go one more slide, Julie, 661 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,080 we get to the southern most portion 662 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,160 of the HC zoning district. 663 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:13,160 These locations are either vacant or have some 664 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:17,080 of the largest car dealerships in town. 665 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,640 And this goes roughly from, well, Bucky's on the north end 666 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,300 down all the way to Post Oak on the southern end. 667 00:32:24,300 --> 00:32:30,880 So heavily commercial, lots of automotive related businesses. 668 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,960 So if you'd go one more slide, Julie, I'd appreciate it. 669 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:39,560 It's there. 670 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:41,320 - Are we on the one that says use standards? 671 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:42,480 - Yes, sir. 672 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:43,880 - Thank you. 673 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,720 So we all know within this district, 674 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,800 an automotive repair shop of the major variety is allowed. 675 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,200 That's any establishment that's primarily engaged 676 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,200 in providing vehicle repair, body work, 677 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,480 mechanical servicing and painting. 678 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,800 And there are three specific use standards that apply 679 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:01,840 for that use within the HC district. 680 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:05,160 You've heard them before, but the first is all repairs, 681 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,000 services and storage shall be conducted 682 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,320 within an entirely enclosed structure. 683 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:14,120 Two, that open storage of wrecked or inoperable cars, 684 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,720 discarded tires, auto parts or similar materials 685 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:21,800 shall be prohibited and sales of vehicles shall be prohibited. 686 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,260 Now, within these three specific standards, 687 00:33:25,260 --> 00:33:28,080 there's not a whole lot of disagreement 688 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,080 or issue with my client on a great deal of this. 689 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:32,480 They don't plan to sell vehicles. 690 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,960 So item three is not really of any concern 691 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:37,880 for my client for their operations. 692 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:42,520 On part two, the open storage of wrecked 693 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,480 or inoperable cars, we're gonna talk about that some, 694 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,600 but discarded tires, auto parts, similar materials, 695 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,200 don't plan on having piles of rubber sitting around 696 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:52,960 or old alternators. 697 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:57,720 So we are gonna talk about wrecked or inoperable cars. 698 00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:02,800 And then on item one, all repairs, services and storage 699 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,840 shall be conducted within an entirely enclosed structure. 700 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,400 Much of that we don't have concern about. 701 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,360 It's really what the meaning 702 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,040 of an entirely enclosed structure is. 703 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,240 So Julie, if you go to the next slide, I appreciate it. 704 00:34:16,240 --> 00:34:18,440 - It's there. 705 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:23,360 - When you determine what is an entirely enclosed structure, 706 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:28,400 the way that the city has interpreted that provision 707 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:30,920 is these first two quotes I've got for you 708 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:32,320 out of their interpretation letter 709 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,920 that any vehicle intended for service 710 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,240 and stored outside of a structure for more than 24 hours 711 00:34:38,240 --> 00:34:41,000 are classified as open storage and must be contained 712 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,080 within an entirely enclosed structure 713 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:44,920 in accordance with the use specific standards. 714 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,600 And then they interpret that to be quote, 715 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:52,600 the clear and plain meaning of section 5.3.5 716 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,080 stipulates that all activities and materials 717 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,960 associated with use must be maintained within a structure 718 00:34:57,960 --> 00:34:59,720 with four walls and a roof. 719 00:34:59,720 --> 00:35:02,960 So this is the first time that four walls and a roof 720 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:06,760 comes into play and all activities and materials 721 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:08,480 associated with is far broader 722 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,160 than what the actual use restriction is. 723 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,440 So the other, the third, 724 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,760 well, let's talk about these first two. 725 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:21,520 These first two, this four wall and a roof requirement, 726 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:22,560 where might that come from? 727 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:24,440 'Cause it's not in the use standard. 728 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:29,440 The use standard reads all storage must be 729 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,400 within entirely enclosed structure. 730 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:32,960 So what is an entirely enclosed structure? 731 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,880 We have some things we can look to to determine that. 732 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:39,880 The first is the definition section of the DDC itself. 733 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:44,880 The DDC itself defines a structure as any edifice 734 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,720 of any kind or any piece of work artificially built up 735 00:35:48,720 --> 00:35:51,000 or composed of parts joined together 736 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,440 which requires location on in or above the ground 737 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,240 or which is attached to something having a location 738 00:35:57,240 --> 00:35:58,600 on in or above the ground. 739 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,720 So that's very broad, what is a structure? 740 00:36:01,720 --> 00:36:05,760 There are lots of things that when you see 741 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,000 the word structure that you might not consider 742 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:08,880 would be a structure, 743 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,800 but they are within the meaning of the DDC. 744 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:17,840 For example, a permanent concrete picnic table in a park 745 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:22,680 would be a structure under that definition. 746 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:27,960 A permanent bench at a park would be a structure 747 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:29,600 within that definition. 748 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:31,640 So when we see the word structure, 749 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:36,280 we often think building, barn, shed, 750 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,880 but that's not what the DDC defines structure to mean. 751 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,520 A structure would include a fence, okay? 752 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:46,560 And so when you take the specific definition 753 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,240 of a structure within the DDC and then you, 754 00:36:49,240 --> 00:36:52,560 not just a structure, a structure's not enough, 755 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,480 it has to be an enclosed structure. 756 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:55,880 But what does enclosed mean? 757 00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:02,360 Enclosed means wrapped around, concealed, okay? 758 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:07,760 The staff relies on a Webster's definition 759 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:12,640 or this open concept of not having, 760 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:14,560 of not covered with a top roof or lid, 761 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:19,560 but that's not what an enclosed structure 762 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,440 is under the meaning of the DDC. 763 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:26,520 A root, pardon me, a fence that was opaque 764 00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,920 even a fence that's not opaque would constitute 765 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,240 an enclosed structure as long as access 766 00:37:33,240 --> 00:37:35,640 is restricted where you couldn't get into it. 767 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,080 Let's see. 768 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:42,960 And the city council could have required 769 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:47,600 that a building, an entirely enclosed building 770 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:52,320 be used for storage of materials or vehicles 771 00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:56,880 at a major auto repair or it could have required 772 00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:58,840 that a structure having at least four walls 773 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,240 and a roof be required for storage. 774 00:38:01,240 --> 00:38:02,360 And it knew how to do that 775 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:05,680 because they use those definitions in other places. 776 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,720 So the definition of outdoor storage accessory 777 00:38:08,720 --> 00:38:10,840 has that four walls and a roof requirement 778 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,680 that's not included in the use specific standard here. 779 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:20,440 In the wrecking and vehicle tear down restrictions, 780 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:25,360 it talks about unenclosed storage in buildings 781 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:26,800 and enclosed building requirements. 782 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:31,640 So when the council wanted an enclosure of building 783 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:33,800 to be the required method of storage, 784 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,200 it knew how to require it and it didn't do it here. 785 00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:39,760 And so what we're asking you all to decide today 786 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,200 is that a fence constitutes 787 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,920 an entirely enclosed structure, okay? 788 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:50,800 And that a screening fence that's opaque 789 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,160 that doesn't allow sites into what's being stored 790 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:55,800 not only meets the requirements 791 00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:57,480 of an entirely enclosed structure, 792 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:01,640 but also defeats the concern about open storage, okay? 793 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:07,560 So open storage is not a defined term under the DDC 794 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:12,320 and the city has looked to Webster's dictionary 795 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:13,880 for the definition of the word open. 796 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:16,480 They go down to the fourth definition listed 797 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,360 where they cite that it means not covered 798 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:21,360 with a top roof or lid. 799 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,640 We believe that the first definition listed 800 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:26,720 is far more probative that where it says having no enclosing 801 00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:29,360 or confining barrier accessible on all 802 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,440 or nearly all sides, right? 803 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:33,800 And then the black slot dictionary 804 00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:35,840 which lawyers use all the time 805 00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:39,080 says that open means manifest, 806 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:43,560 apparent, notorious, visible, exposed to public view. 807 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,040 That's the type of concern that the council 808 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,880 apparently was trying to address 809 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:50,320 with this open storage requirement. 810 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:54,120 And it's satisfied by a screening fence 811 00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:56,920 or by which would be an enclosed structure 812 00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:58,880 as long as it goes all the way around. 813 00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:02,520 Julie, could you please go to the next slide for me? 814 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:03,960 - Sure. 815 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:05,280 I'm there. 816 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:06,240 - Thank you. 817 00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:08,240 I don't want to get mine pulled up. 818 00:40:08,240 --> 00:40:10,680 So this, I went and took some pictures 819 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:12,480 to take a look at some properties 820 00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:14,240 that are within this HC district. 821 00:40:14,240 --> 00:40:17,720 And this property here has long existed 822 00:40:17,720 --> 00:40:22,520 prior to the HC amendments that occurred in 2019. 823 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:24,880 So I don't know what standards apply to them 824 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,600 but I want to just go through a thought experiment here 825 00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:31,840 about whether or not this currently existing status 826 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:35,880 would fit within the current, 827 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:40,080 the current standards as they are, 828 00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,640 as they're being interpreted today. 829 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:43,800 First, I think it's pretty clear 830 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:45,880 there's some storage going on outside. 831 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,120 And I can't represent to you 832 00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,640 that I drove past more than 24 hours apart 833 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:54,720 but a great deal of these, 834 00:40:54,720 --> 00:40:58,080 this property looked like it had been there quite some time 835 00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,120 and it was visible from the public, 836 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,040 from a public right away. 837 00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:05,880 And so you can clearly see that this screening fence 838 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:10,040 on the left side here does not entirely enclose 839 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:11,640 the objects that are being stored. 840 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:15,520 If it did, I wouldn't have been able to see them. 841 00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:17,320 And of course, then it wouldn't have any of these 842 00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:19,840 negative impacts that we're trying to abate 843 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,560 by adopting a zoning ordinance. 844 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,320 So I'd submit to you that this current situation 845 00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:30,320 would not be approved under the current zoning scheme 846 00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,120 and it's certainly not what my client's proposing. 847 00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:35,080 Julie, would you please go to the next slide? 848 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,320 - Yeah. 849 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:40,760 - So if you're, this photograph was taken 850 00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,880 from the exact same spot facing the other direction. 851 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:45,680 Again, this is a property that's within 852 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:47,840 the current HC district. 853 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,080 And here we see some vehicles. 854 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:51,720 I don't know whether they're operable or not, 855 00:41:51,720 --> 00:41:53,840 but again, the main issue is you can see them. 856 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:55,560 They're not adequately screened. 857 00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,000 Even though here, it does appear that they are 858 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,200 contained within an enclosed structure. 859 00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,440 They're surrounded by a fence on the back, 860 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,200 a fence on all four sides. 861 00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:07,200 They are enclosed. 862 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:09,600 I think they meet the enclosed structure requirement 863 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:14,560 but the openness component doesn't pass much through here 864 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:15,760 because you can see them. 865 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:19,560 So I wanna show you, if you could go to the next slide, 866 00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:21,120 and Julie, I'd appreciate it. 867 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:25,600 The next slide, this is a much more recent installation 868 00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:27,440 here in Denton. 869 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:32,000 This is not within the HC zoning district. 870 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:33,920 This is actually a competitor of my clients, 871 00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:35,920 but this is a light industrial 872 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:37,520 or some sort of industrial use. 873 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:39,200 I don't remember specifically which one it is, 874 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:44,200 but here, I think we meet the enclosed structure requirement 875 00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:47,640 but we don't meet the openness requirement once again. 876 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:51,240 So you can even build a pretty nice looking building 877 00:42:51,240 --> 00:42:54,560 and a nice screening wall and still not meet 878 00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:56,960 the more stringent requirements that are gonna be 879 00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:00,280 upon my clients since they're in the HC district. 880 00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:03,800 But if you look here, we have entirely enclosed. 881 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:04,920 The fence goes all the way around. 882 00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:05,920 You can just see through it. 883 00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,680 So you're not gonna get that second component. 884 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:12,400 So I would submit to you that if this gate here were opaque, 885 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:16,600 that it would meet the requirements of the HC district 886 00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:18,000 because you wouldn't be able to see in 887 00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:21,720 and it addresses all of the concerns that the council had. 888 00:43:21,720 --> 00:43:24,160 Julie, if you'd go on to the next slide, I'd appreciate it. 889 00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:27,240 - I'm there. 890 00:43:27,240 --> 00:43:30,080 - Thanks, this is a overhead shot of the concept plan 891 00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:35,040 for my clients contemplated improvements here. 892 00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:39,520 You'll notice here on the building is largely 893 00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:41,720 the same footprint over here on the right, 894 00:43:41,720 --> 00:43:47,000 I guess the north, well, the right-hand side, 895 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:48,840 there's a parking area for the public. 896 00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:53,160 And then there's a fence, a screening fence 897 00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:58,160 that is along the bottom-most and left-most directions 898 00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:03,880 of this property and it screens on all slides. 899 00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:08,880 So it would shield from public view all of the vehicles 900 00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:11,800 that were either waiting to be worked on 901 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,560 or had been worked on but not yet picked up. 902 00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:17,160 It addresses the enclosed structure requirement. 903 00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:18,200 There's a fence all the way around. 904 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:19,800 It's not visible from the public. 905 00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:23,520 If you'd go to the next slide, please, Julie. 906 00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:31,080 These are some elevations depictions 907 00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:35,040 of the type of product that my client wants to install 908 00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:36,080 at the property. 909 00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:41,080 Julie, if you could go one more, I'd appreciate it. 910 00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:43,560 - Yes. 911 00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:45,040 - And then the very last one, 912 00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:49,480 this is the style of opaque fence 913 00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:53,720 that would shield from the public view 914 00:44:53,720 --> 00:44:58,000 the vehicles that are parked at the property. 915 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:02,280 I do want to talk for just a moment about the wrecked 916 00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:03,960 and inoperable components. 917 00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:08,960 And the city that's interpretation letter has assumed 918 00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:13,320 that if you are at a body shop, 919 00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:15,760 then you must be wrecked or inoperable. 920 00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:17,520 And we all know that's not the case. 921 00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:19,840 We've all had fender benders. 922 00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,640 We've all had scratches. 923 00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,360 We've had either a window or mirror replacement 924 00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,040 or we've had a panel that's been repainted. 925 00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:29,840 And we all know that those vehicles 926 00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:32,280 were perfectly operable, right? 927 00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,440 And wrecked, not even close to wrecked. 928 00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:36,880 Wrecking is where you dismantle vehicles 929 00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:40,080 to salvage them basically. 930 00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:43,040 And that concept comes from the city 931 00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:44,320 of Denton code of ordinances 932 00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:45,680 where we talk about wrecked vehicles, 933 00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:48,320 discarded, abandoned, jumped, wrecked 934 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:51,840 or worn out automotive vehicles, including those, 935 00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,200 including, but not limited to autos, trucks, 936 00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:56,840 trailers and buses are kept your store. 937 00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,200 This is about wrecking services for the purpose 938 00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:01,880 of disassembling, dismantling, cutting up, stripping 939 00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,640 or otherwise wrecking such automotive vehicles 940 00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:07,000 to extract their from parts, components 941 00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:09,440 or accessories for sale or for use 942 00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:11,200 in an automotive repair or rebuilding business. 943 00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:13,080 So that's not what's going on here. 944 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:16,280 That's not what my client intends to do. 945 00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:20,280 And so we don't really have an issue 946 00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:25,040 with the prohibition on wrecked, on storing wrecked vehicles 947 00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:26,840 because we're just not gonna store wrecked vehicle there. 948 00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:28,000 That's not what we're gonna do. 949 00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:31,760 So, but I do think it's going a step too far 950 00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,040 to say that just because you have a vehicle 951 00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:37,000 that's at a body shop or a paint shop 952 00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,880 that it is automatically wrecked or inoperable 953 00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,160 because we all know that's just not the case. 954 00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:47,360 So in conclusion, the proposed screening improvements 955 00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:48,520 that my client has presented 956 00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,040 are an entirely enclosed structure 957 00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:53,360 within the meaning of the DDC. 958 00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:57,000 The vehicles that are intended to be parked there 959 00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,640 are not gonna be wrecked or inoperable 960 00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,080 and they don't run afoul of the storage requirements 961 00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:04,640 that are cited by the city and its interpretation letter. 962 00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:07,920 The opacity of the proposed improvement 963 00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:11,240 defeats the openness component of the concern 964 00:47:11,240 --> 00:47:12,840 that has been raised here today. 965 00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:15,600 And as such, we're asking this board to modify 966 00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:17,120 the interpretation letter of the city 967 00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:20,640 to specifically find that the proposed screening fence 968 00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:22,760 is an entirely enclosed structure 969 00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:24,760 within the meaning of the DDC 970 00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:27,200 and that the contemplated damaged vehicles 971 00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:29,280 do not categorically amount to wrecked 972 00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:30,960 or inoperable vehicles. 973 00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:32,560 And I know I've gone quickly. 974 00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:35,360 I'm happy to answer any questions that you all might have. 975 00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:40,320 - Thank you, Mr. Sergeant. 976 00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:42,720 Does anyone from the board have any questions? 977 00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:48,480 - I have a question. 978 00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:52,880 So in a couple, you showed a couple of previous slides 979 00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:55,800 of a business that was zoned HC, 980 00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:57,360 but it was probably pre-existing, 981 00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:00,200 the 2019 overhaul of the DDC. 982 00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:01,360 - Yes, ma'am. - And then, yeah. 983 00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:05,200 And then you showed another one that was much newer 984 00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,240 that was not in the HC zoning area. 985 00:48:08,240 --> 00:48:12,320 I was just wondering if you have any images 986 00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:16,520 or did you come across any businesses like this 987 00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:20,160 in the HC zoning district 988 00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:25,160 that have been built or created since the 2019 overhaul? 989 00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:28,320 - Not that I was able to locate. 990 00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:29,960 When I was driving through the districts, 991 00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:33,560 there's lots of pre-existing auto repair uses 992 00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:38,000 and there's lots of relatively new 993 00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:41,800 or constantly updated uses such as car dealerships. 994 00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:46,120 And those car dealerships have body shop work 995 00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:47,760 that they do. 996 00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:52,760 And you can see the vehicles that are waiting repair 997 00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:55,280 in some of those instances. 998 00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:58,800 What I did find up near the northern portion 999 00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:03,280 of the district up by the 288 intersection 1000 00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:05,440 where we have the Zimmer-Kavoda location, 1001 00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:07,440 there's a couple of uses up there 1002 00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:10,720 that are not auto repair. 1003 00:49:10,720 --> 00:49:14,840 They do sales for RVs and for rental equipment, 1004 00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:17,320 but both of, well, there were three or four, I think, 1005 00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:22,440 maybe three that had repair operations that they conducted 1006 00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:27,160 where the materials used for repair 1007 00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:30,120 and the vehicles or equipment that was waiting to be repaired 1008 00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:33,520 were both visible from the street since they're not, 1009 00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:35,480 I didn't include them since they're not 1010 00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:39,600 a major auto repair installation. 1011 00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:42,800 They're sales-based and they have different standards, 1012 00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:46,560 but there are similar uses within the zoning district, 1013 00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:49,200 but none that I could find that were just auto repair. 1014 00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:51,120 - Yeah, in a way, the second one that you showed 1015 00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:52,560 where it was just a fence very similar 1016 00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:55,960 to what your client was proposing, 1017 00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:57,600 what was the zoning on that one? 1018 00:49:57,600 --> 00:49:58,440 Are you aware? 1019 00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:03,080 - For the second one, the one that's relatively new? 1020 00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:04,520 - Yeah. 1021 00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:06,280 - That is an industrial use. 1022 00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:08,960 - But it is auto repair? 1023 00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:10,840 Like it's similar to what- 1024 00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:14,400 - Yes, that's Caliber Collision next door 1025 00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:18,360 to Duluth Trading Company and Northern Tool and Equipment. 1026 00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:20,920 - Okay, do you know when they were built? 1027 00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:21,760 - I don't. 1028 00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:26,960 - Would it be possible to, 1029 00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:28,880 'cause now that you point that out, 1030 00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:31,000 sorry, Amber, is that okay if I ask? 1031 00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:32,280 - Yeah, go ahead 'cause it sounds like you're piggybacking. 1032 00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:33,120 Go ahead. 1033 00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:36,720 - Yeah, now that you kind of pinned up where that's at, 1034 00:50:36,720 --> 00:50:38,880 Julie, is there a way we could pull that presentation back up 1035 00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:41,880 and look at one of the slides that he showed with the red, 1036 00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,400 I think this might be the first or second one, 1037 00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:46,400 with the red HC District. 1038 00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:51,600 - To answer your question when that caliber was built, 1039 00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:55,200 I believe it was built in 2018. 1040 00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:59,160 - Okay, so this all predates the 2019 overhaul of the DDC, 1041 00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:01,880 which I think is important to point out here, but it's- 1042 00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:02,720 - Yeah. 1043 00:51:02,720 --> 00:51:03,560 - Yeah, okay. 1044 00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:04,400 Is that what the- 1045 00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:05,240 - Yeah, absolutely, 1046 00:51:05,240 --> 00:51:08,000 and it's in a different zoning district altogether. 1047 00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:12,280 I included to show what already exists along I-35 1048 00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:16,000 and what the, to show something that I don't think 1049 00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:18,200 would be conforming in the HC District, 1050 00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:21,520 but is nonetheless a high quality building. 1051 00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:22,360 - Correct. 1052 00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:26,200 - Keep in mind though, the same use standards apply 1053 00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:29,280 throughout all the zoning districts that it's permitted in. 1054 00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:32,760 So even in an industrial district, the use standards, 1055 00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:36,840 even in the heavy industry. 1056 00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:43,000 - So, Mr. Redwine, did you get, we were looking for you- 1057 00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:44,440 - Actually, Julie, can we go back? 1058 00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:47,200 I think it's maybe one more slide, well. 1059 00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:50,760 - Oh, are you talking about all the red? 1060 00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:52,520 - Yeah, where we showed the different districts. 1061 00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:54,440 Yeah, I just want to see along that corridor 1062 00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:59,520 where that location will be right there, I think. 1063 00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:01,320 - No, that's the Northern end. 1064 00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:05,240 - We don't have the one in between University and Dallas. 1065 00:52:05,240 --> 00:52:07,960 - It's actually, it is visible on that first slide, 1066 00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:09,560 that shows the HC Zoning District. 1067 00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:12,640 If you look right down at the, you know, 1068 00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:15,240 the bottom most portion, it's light blue. 1069 00:52:15,240 --> 00:52:16,680 - Got it, okay. 1070 00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:17,600 So I was just trying to see it. 1071 00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:19,640 Well, I mean, so I guess to answer my question, 1072 00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:24,240 we have just north of that, we have some HC Districts. 1073 00:52:24,240 --> 00:52:27,880 Yeah, okay, that helps me with kind of what I was looking for. 1074 00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:29,200 Thank you. 1075 00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:30,640 - Ms. Meisner, you've been so patient. 1076 00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:32,880 Thanks so much for your time. 1077 00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:37,880 - Yeah, so I guess I have two questions here. 1078 00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:41,320 The first one for Julie, 1079 00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:46,440 I'm a little confused about the four walls and a roof. 1080 00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:50,200 So was that just not stated clearly originally, 1081 00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:53,360 but its intention was included? 1082 00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:59,720 - In terms of the use specific standard, the within, 1083 00:52:59,720 --> 00:53:01,880 the intent was to, 1084 00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:06,840 the intent is to have those within a fully enclosed 1085 00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:08,480 four walls and a roof. 1086 00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:11,200 And what we do is we look to other parts, 1087 00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:14,480 other use specific standards related to some more 1088 00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:18,480 automotive uses to sort of see how they differentiate. 1089 00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:21,640 So when we look at, for example, 1090 00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:24,880 just outdoor storage, 1091 00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:28,080 it doesn't talk about that full enclosure, you know, 1092 00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:30,640 it just talks about it needs a screening wall. 1093 00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:33,760 And then we talk about the, 1094 00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:42,160 the automotive wrecking and salvage yards, 1095 00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:45,080 where the only requirement it has, 1096 00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:46,920 it has to be screened from public view. 1097 00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:51,560 So the automotive repair major talks about that, 1098 00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:55,440 that prohibits that open storage. 1099 00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:57,040 So really it gets to that. 1100 00:53:57,040 --> 00:53:59,600 It really needs to be enclosed. 1101 00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:03,960 - Okay, so there's just a lot of splitting hairs 1102 00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:08,960 between the terminologies that seems to be going on. 1103 00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:11,800 And then my next, my follow-up question is, 1104 00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:15,240 if the structure, 1105 00:54:15,240 --> 00:54:19,960 from where you've got it now, 1106 00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:25,480 have you looked at details for expanding 1107 00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:27,960 into four walls and a roof? 1108 00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,640 And if so, what is the cost of that? 1109 00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:34,160 And is your client prepared to go down that avenue? 1110 00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:38,680 What research has been done to satisfy 1111 00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:41,160 the standards of the city? 1112 00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:44,560 - Well, you know, we of course have a, 1113 00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:46,240 we disagree with the city's interpretation 1114 00:54:46,240 --> 00:54:47,480 of what those standards are, 1115 00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:50,720 but I have not been a part of any conversations 1116 00:54:50,720 --> 00:54:55,240 about those costs or what that might look like. 1117 00:54:55,240 --> 00:54:56,960 Representative from my client, Gray Hanna, 1118 00:54:56,960 --> 00:54:58,400 I think is on the line. 1119 00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:02,120 Gray, are you in a spot where you could answer that question? 1120 00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:04,960 - Yeah, you've been repeating the question on my phone, 1121 00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:06,760 cut out just for like 10 seconds. 1122 00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:12,080 - Have you looked at what it would take to expand 1123 00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:15,560 to provide an enclosure with four walls and a roof 1124 00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:17,800 to maintain consistent standards 1125 00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,080 that the city's referring to? 1126 00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:25,200 - I can say we've looked at it briefly, 1127 00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:30,200 but to build an enclosure is gonna be very expensive. 1128 00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:38,800 So, I mean, to maintain anything that's on the lot 1129 00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:45,640 for more than 24 hours, 1130 00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:50,840 I mean, gosh, that could be upwards of a million dollars 1131 00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:51,680 easily. 1132 00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:56,040 - Okay. 1133 00:55:56,040 --> 00:56:04,600 Are there other questions for Mr. Sargent? 1134 00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:10,120 Okay. 1135 00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:11,280 All right, we're gonna move on then. 1136 00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:12,760 Thank you very much, sir. 1137 00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:17,680 Let's see, next then, is there anyone who wishes 1138 00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:20,160 to speak at the appeal, Mr. Hanna? 1139 00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:23,480 I imagine you probably would be in this category, yes. 1140 00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:26,880 - Yes. 1141 00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:27,720 - Yes, all right. 1142 00:56:27,720 --> 00:56:30,360 If you'd like to go ahead and present your case, 1143 00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:31,520 you've got the floor. 1144 00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:38,040 - Oh, I'm sorry, no, I'm good with what Trey's outlined. 1145 00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:39,040 - Got it, got it, good. 1146 00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:41,440 Looks like we've got a question from Ms. Lane. 1147 00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:44,680 - Yes, I had a question as to, 1148 00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:47,040 you mentioned having quite a number 1149 00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:50,800 of other similar businesses around and about, 1150 00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:55,800 and that this business does not do heavy automotive repair 1151 00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:59,360 work or parts replacement work. 1152 00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:02,200 Is that the case with all of your other branches 1153 00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:04,360 and has it been consistently case? 1154 00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:07,880 And do you have documentation that prohibits customers 1155 00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:09,520 from that expectation? 1156 00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:14,640 - So typically how they, 1157 00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:18,640 but they have a location down in farmers branch 1158 00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:22,640 that takes on all of their, what they consider non-drives. 1159 00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:29,960 Now, occasionally, what it means is it's just not drivable. 1160 00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:34,920 It's not tutable to be on the road. 1161 00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:41,240 Occasionally, what can happen is the car gets delivered 1162 00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:48,200 to the site, it's considered a total loss 1163 00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:51,720 and then the insurance company comes and takes it off 1164 00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:54,720 and uses it for salaries. 1165 00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:59,720 That is typically what you would see 1166 00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:03,320 if a car is gonna remain there. 1167 00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:06,160 And they do that within a week. 1168 00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:07,320 - Within a week. 1169 00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:12,280 So you could have visible, very damaged looking cars 1170 00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:15,480 sitting there for a week, waiting for the insurance to come. 1171 00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:16,320 Okay, thank you. 1172 00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:19,600 Ms. Meisner. 1173 00:58:19,600 --> 00:58:25,160 - One more question for Julie. 1174 00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:30,160 With regards to standards for four walls and a roof, 1175 00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:34,560 help me understand if this would qualify in that category, 1176 00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:38,600 if it were to be just brick fencing 1177 00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:41,840 with some type of a metal structure on top, 1178 00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:46,840 that they were to not necessarily extend 1179 00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:50,800 the full enclosure over full on 1180 00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:53,040 with air conditioning, heating, whatnot, 1181 00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:58,040 but just make a different smaller scale enclosure, 1182 00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:00,860 would that meet that standard? 1183 00:59:00,860 --> 00:59:08,760 - Let me make sure I understand. 1184 00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:12,120 So you're talking about a sort of fencing, 1185 00:59:12,120 --> 00:59:16,880 but with a maybe sort of a, just a covering on top? 1186 00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:17,720 - Yes. 1187 00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:23,200 - That first use specific standard, 1188 00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:26,080 which talks about that entirely enclosed, 1189 00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:29,480 based upon just that plain language, 1190 00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:32,960 I really think it needs to be a fully enclosed building. 1191 00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:36,680 In terms of like air conditioned space, 1192 00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:39,240 that would probably fall to building inspections 1193 00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:41,900 to meet their requirements. 1194 00:59:41,900 --> 00:59:46,560 But given that that use specific standard 1195 00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:48,780 talks about entirely enclosed, 1196 00:59:48,780 --> 00:59:51,680 I would think it would need to meet that standard. 1197 00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:52,720 - Okay, thank you. 1198 00:59:52,720 --> 01:00:03,720 Ms. Lane, you're muted. 1199 01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:08,040 - I unmuted, but it remuted for some reason. 1200 01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:11,360 Is it understood that the repair work would take place 1201 01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:13,520 inside the structure or whatever it is? 1202 01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:19,900 - Mrs. Trey, I'm not sure your question's for you, go ahead. 1203 01:00:19,900 --> 01:00:27,240 - That repair, all repairs are in the enclosed building. 1204 01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:28,840 - I see, I see. 1205 01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:32,160 So then it would possibly be a consideration 1206 01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:34,920 that it be a habitable for human beings 1207 01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:36,700 to spend many, many hours there? 1208 01:00:36,700 --> 01:00:42,900 - Yes. 1209 01:00:42,900 --> 01:00:46,320 Are you referring to the employees? 1210 01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:52,180 - Yes, and the owners or managers, 1211 01:00:52,180 --> 01:00:54,220 people who would need to be around the vehicles 1212 01:00:54,220 --> 01:00:55,560 would need to be in there. 1213 01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:58,140 - Correct, yes. 1214 01:00:58,140 --> 01:01:06,000 - Okay, so we're gonna move on. 1215 01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:09,200 - Now, I guess they wouldn't be in, 1216 01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:13,720 they wouldn't have a need to be in the parking areas at all, 1217 01:01:13,720 --> 01:01:15,680 but inside the existing building 1218 01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:16,920 where the repairs are going on. 1219 01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:18,800 Yeah, that is correct. 1220 01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:20,760 - And is it that building? 1221 01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:22,920 So it's the storage building that we're talking about, 1222 01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:25,160 not the only reason to go in 1223 01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:27,600 and it would be to move cars out of it? 1224 01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:28,440 - Correct. - Yes. 1225 01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:35,840 - Okay, any other questions? 1226 01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:39,040 Okay, good, all right. 1227 01:01:39,040 --> 01:01:41,960 So the next one is then, 1228 01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:46,000 is anyone, not staff, not Mr. Sargent, 1229 01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:50,600 anyone else who wants to speak in support of this appeal? 1230 01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:55,400 I don't know how this works if people are calling in. 1231 01:01:55,400 --> 01:01:56,260 Is there anyone? 1232 01:01:56,260 --> 01:01:58,960 - Thank you, Chair. 1233 01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:01,240 There are no callers for this item. 1234 01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:02,820 - Okay, thank you, okay. 1235 01:02:02,820 --> 01:02:06,160 And I assume then number seven, 1236 01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:07,800 there's no one who wishes to speak in opposition 1237 01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:10,200 of this appeal because there's no callers, so okay. 1238 01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:15,880 Moving on, comments now having been received 1239 01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:17,920 from all those desiring to speak in favor 1240 01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:19,600 and in opposition appeal, 1241 01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:21,880 I would call upon the administrative official 1242 01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:25,400 and then the appellate for rebuttal. 1243 01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:26,960 - Chair, if I can interject real quick, 1244 01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:28,840 before we get to that point, 1245 01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:30,680 staff does have a clarification. 1246 01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:34,880 Julie, do you have that clarification? 1247 01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:36,640 - Well, just in terms of the differences 1248 01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:39,280 between the buildings, if a car was stored there 1249 01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:42,080 or if the vehicles were being repaired there, 1250 01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:44,480 they would need to, any structure would need 1251 01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:46,720 to accommodate a lift or any other equipment 1252 01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:50,640 that would be required in order to do that operation. 1253 01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:52,440 So I just wanted to make that clear. 1254 01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:54,880 - Thank you. 1255 01:02:54,880 --> 01:03:00,780 So now we move on to the rebuttal part. 1256 01:03:00,780 --> 01:03:05,640 I haven't, it's been a minute 1257 01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:07,160 since we had a meeting like this. 1258 01:03:07,160 --> 01:03:09,360 So I'm not sure if I start with, 1259 01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:10,880 oh, I guess I start with Ms. Wyatt. 1260 01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:12,120 Do you have a rebuttal to anything 1261 01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:14,680 that was presented before us? 1262 01:03:14,680 --> 01:03:18,240 - I don't have anything more to add 1263 01:03:18,240 --> 01:03:20,960 other than to just talk about 1264 01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:24,720 that the Denton Development Code does address. 1265 01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:27,200 The vehicle repair is differently 1266 01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:31,480 and that storage onsite and those cars differently 1267 01:03:31,480 --> 01:03:34,240 than it does that outdoor storage 1268 01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:36,960 and those junkyard type uses 1269 01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:39,120 where those do just require that fencing 1270 01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:41,160 and that vehicle repair does require 1271 01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:43,680 that entirely enclosed structure. 1272 01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:46,960 - Thank you. 1273 01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:51,520 Do any members of the public 1274 01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:52,800 for previous provide a comment? 1275 01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:54,240 Yes, so I guess Mr. Sergeant, 1276 01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:56,000 do you have a rebuttal to anything? 1277 01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:58,840 - No, I just like to take the opportunity 1278 01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:02,000 to thank you once again for your time this afternoon. 1279 01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:04,400 Appreciate it, I know that it's valuable 1280 01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:06,160 and that's not lost on any of us. 1281 01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:08,720 So I do have one, I guess, 1282 01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:13,560 point of order or question about the action 1283 01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:14,680 that you're about to take. 1284 01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:16,160 Julie had previously written me 1285 01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:18,680 about needing to do that in a separate meeting 1286 01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:20,200 and I know they're on the same agenda here 1287 01:04:20,200 --> 01:04:23,320 and I wanna make sure that whatever decision you guys make 1288 01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:25,400 is final and good and all that. 1289 01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:27,440 So I don't know if Julie has a comment on that or not, 1290 01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:30,520 but I wanted to bring it up before you got to the next item. 1291 01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:32,200 - Yeah, I had a question on that too, 1292 01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:34,400 which was clarified beforehand for me, 1293 01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:37,320 but go ahead and staff could just clarify 1294 01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:38,680 for the rest of us, please. 1295 01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:45,200 - Yes, Chair, members of the commission and the applicant, 1296 01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:49,080 due to the agenda, we are going to make that determination 1297 01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:50,920 or just the board will be making that decision 1298 01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:54,760 that is on the next item that's on the agenda 1299 01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:56,280 immediately after this item. 1300 01:04:56,280 --> 01:05:02,560 - And I guess the attorney for Mr. Sergeant, 1301 01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:04,080 I just wanna make sure that's okay with you, 1302 01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:06,880 that you all don't have any objections 1303 01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:08,240 to that happening today. 1304 01:05:08,240 --> 01:05:10,840 - Well, we're gonna reserve all of our rights 1305 01:05:10,840 --> 01:05:12,480 under the local government code 1306 01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:14,760 and if the board's been advised 1307 01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:16,760 that that's the actually need to take work, 1308 01:05:16,760 --> 01:05:19,800 I guess we will object to it on the grounds 1309 01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:24,840 that it doesn't comply with section 211-010-D. 1310 01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:32,520 For the record, I mean, just for the purposes 1311 01:05:32,520 --> 01:05:34,720 of preserving that objection for the record. 1312 01:05:34,720 --> 01:05:45,840 - So do we move on since you have an objective objection? 1313 01:05:45,840 --> 01:05:50,600 - Well, we've got a couple of options. 1314 01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:53,160 One is the board, we can go into closed session 1315 01:05:53,160 --> 01:05:57,200 just to talk about potentially what goes along 1316 01:05:57,200 --> 01:06:00,040 with the objection and what that would mean for the board. 1317 01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:02,160 I guess the option beyond that is 1318 01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:04,320 if you wanna meet or schedule another time 1319 01:06:04,320 --> 01:06:06,680 that the 211 of the local government code 1320 01:06:06,680 --> 01:06:09,080 requires the decision to be made within 60 days. 1321 01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:12,080 I mean, that's June 13th. 1322 01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:15,160 So if there's a time when the board can meet before then, 1323 01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:18,800 I think that would address Mr. Sergeant's concern. 1324 01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:20,840 - And I think the challenge with that is 1325 01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:24,720 because we've done this once before, like two years ago, 1326 01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:28,840 is that it has to be all six members who are here 1327 01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:33,520 have to find a time that works for our schedules, 1328 01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:36,960 which isn't impossible, but not always easy. 1329 01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:39,840 So I'm not sure how to proceed at this point 1330 01:06:39,840 --> 01:06:42,480 because the next step would be for me 1331 01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:47,160 to close the public hearing and then open up item 2C, 1332 01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:49,800 which is deliberations and a decision. 1333 01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:54,800 So if Mr. Sergeant and his client object to us proceeding, 1334 01:06:55,720 --> 01:07:00,400 then I think we should, I propose we close the public hearing 1335 01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:02,480 and try and find a way for the six of us 1336 01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:06,000 to get together between now and June 13th, 1337 01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:08,040 or if Mr. Sergeant would like to proceed, 1338 01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:09,960 then we can continue to proceed. 1339 01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:13,880 I'm not a lawyer, this is above my paper. 1340 01:07:13,880 --> 01:07:14,720 It's kind of how I see it. 1341 01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:17,360 It's like, why would we deliberate and decide on this 1342 01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:21,000 if there's an objection on that? 1343 01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:25,520 So what do the smarter people who are paid like lawyers 1344 01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:26,920 have to say about all this? 1345 01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:28,240 I don't know. 1346 01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:31,120 - Well, as far as advising the board, 1347 01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:32,480 it's probably best in closed session 1348 01:07:32,480 --> 01:07:35,000 if you want to talk through some of what that implication is 1349 01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:36,800 of having the meeting go forward right now 1350 01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:38,600 and make a decision. 1351 01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:41,320 If your preference is to find a time 1352 01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:43,320 when you all can meet before the 13th, 1353 01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:45,400 I think that addresses the objection 1354 01:07:45,400 --> 01:07:47,280 and there's no real reason to discuss 1355 01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:48,960 the risk of moving forward if that's something 1356 01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:50,400 that the board wants to move forward 1357 01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:51,720 with looking at a date and a time 1358 01:07:51,720 --> 01:07:53,440 that would work for everybody here. 1359 01:07:56,480 --> 01:07:57,920 Nice, do we have a question? 1360 01:07:57,920 --> 01:08:02,160 - Could I get the objection repeated? 1361 01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:05,560 I just didn't hear it clearly before. 1362 01:08:05,560 --> 01:08:08,560 - Of course, yeah, this is Trey Sargent. 1363 01:08:08,560 --> 01:08:12,880 I'm objecting to the consideration of item, 1364 01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:14,400 let me pull up your agenda so I can make sure 1365 01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:15,280 I get it correct. 1366 01:08:15,280 --> 01:08:23,600 Of item C to C, 1367 01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:28,040 the consideration of the appeal for failure 1368 01:08:28,040 --> 01:08:32,040 to comply with local government code section 211.010. 1369 01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:41,240 - So Ms. Meisner, were you with us 1370 01:08:41,240 --> 01:08:44,360 when we talked about that gas well at the, 1371 01:08:44,360 --> 01:08:49,600 that other case with the trailer park? 1372 01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:50,800 - Yes. 1373 01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:52,960 - 'Cause that had to be like the Texas Legislature 1374 01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:54,080 did a thing a couple of years ago 1375 01:08:54,080 --> 01:08:59,080 we have to like have a hearing and then end that hearing 1376 01:08:59,080 --> 01:09:02,720 and then have a totally new meeting to make the decision. 1377 01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:06,200 And I guess the way how the agenda was posted, 1378 01:09:06,200 --> 01:09:08,440 this was posted as one meeting. 1379 01:09:08,440 --> 01:09:13,440 And so, if I understand your objection, Mr. Sargent, 1380 01:09:13,440 --> 01:09:18,120 it's that we're having one continuous meeting 1381 01:09:18,120 --> 01:09:22,320 and so we're not adhering to that law 1382 01:09:22,320 --> 01:09:24,280 that the legislature passed a few years ago. 1383 01:09:24,280 --> 01:09:26,720 Do I understand you correctly on that point? 1384 01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:29,320 - Yes, my objection is that the procedure today 1385 01:09:29,320 --> 01:09:32,280 is not comply with Texas local government code 1386 01:09:32,280 --> 01:09:34,960 section 211.010. 1387 01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:39,480 - I have a question. 1388 01:09:39,480 --> 01:09:40,600 - Ms. Lane. 1389 01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:42,880 - Yes, didn't staff send out two meetings 1390 01:09:42,880 --> 01:09:46,520 that this is to close and the deliberation meeting 1391 01:09:46,520 --> 01:09:49,080 is a brand new meeting, even though on the same day. 1392 01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:53,680 It's not a continuous meeting in other words, 1393 01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:55,440 in terms of what was sent to us. 1394 01:09:55,440 --> 01:09:58,200 Maybe that's a question for Ron. 1395 01:09:58,200 --> 01:10:03,360 - Yes, I can address that question. 1396 01:10:03,360 --> 01:10:09,000 The agenda was to have two separate meetings 1397 01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:13,560 where one would close and then reopen a special session 1398 01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:16,000 for the deliberation. 1399 01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:19,280 Unfortunately, the agenda did not have that separation. 1400 01:10:19,280 --> 01:10:20,800 So we do have one. 1401 01:10:20,800 --> 01:10:22,080 The intent was to do that. 1402 01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:25,200 However, when posted, it did not contain that separation. 1403 01:10:25,200 --> 01:10:30,960 - Fair enough. 1404 01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:36,080 - So how do we proceed? 1405 01:10:36,080 --> 01:10:38,520 Do we get out our calendars and find another date? 1406 01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:41,760 - That's ideal, you can do that right now. 1407 01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:42,760 - Let's do it y'all. 1408 01:10:42,760 --> 01:10:45,720 This applicant has waited a very long time. 1409 01:10:45,720 --> 01:10:47,920 So let's see what we can do to accommodate them. 1410 01:10:50,280 --> 01:10:51,720 - This is Kate. 1411 01:10:51,720 --> 01:10:55,320 Amber, do you mind just making some suggestions 1412 01:10:55,320 --> 01:10:57,760 rather than us all going, well, I can do this 1413 01:10:57,760 --> 01:10:59,480 and not can't do that. 1414 01:10:59,480 --> 01:11:00,320 Thank you. 1415 01:11:00,320 --> 01:11:03,040 - Well, I am almost never available. 1416 01:11:03,040 --> 01:11:06,120 So I'm gonna maybe leave it to, I don't know like staff, 1417 01:11:06,120 --> 01:11:10,320 like is there a preferred day for you all, day or time? 1418 01:11:10,320 --> 01:11:13,760 Or can we generally agree on like evening is better 1419 01:11:13,760 --> 01:11:18,760 than morning or yes, evening is better than morning? 1420 01:11:18,760 --> 01:11:22,000 - Amber, I think since you said you're almost never available, 1421 01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:23,520 you should lay out when you are. 1422 01:11:23,520 --> 01:11:26,360 - I'm never available. 1423 01:11:26,360 --> 01:11:30,200 Oh Lord, this week is crazy for me. 1424 01:11:30,200 --> 01:11:33,880 I could be available next week. 1425 01:11:33,880 --> 01:11:36,000 Oh no, that's Memorial Day. 1426 01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:38,480 So I don't wanna ask staff to work that day. 1427 01:11:38,480 --> 01:11:44,320 I could be available almost no evening next week. 1428 01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:46,040 Oh my goodness, I'm so sorry. 1429 01:11:46,040 --> 01:11:50,920 What about in two weeks on Monday, June 7th, 1430 01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:52,840 sometime after 3 p.m. 1431 01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:57,680 And again, all six of us have to be available, yeah? 1432 01:11:57,680 --> 01:12:00,920 - Right, works for me. 1433 01:12:00,920 --> 01:12:02,040 - I'll be right back. 1434 01:12:02,040 --> 01:12:04,080 I'm gonna go grab my other calendar. 1435 01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:05,440 - We'll grab your calendar. 1436 01:12:05,440 --> 01:12:08,480 - I'm blocking mine now 1437 01:12:08,480 --> 01:12:11,320 just so it doesn't change in the next five minutes. 1438 01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:16,320 - I guess that works. 1439 01:12:16,320 --> 01:12:19,920 - Good, Ms. Lane, does that work for you as well? 1440 01:12:19,920 --> 01:12:39,360 - What time are you guys thinking? 1441 01:12:39,360 --> 01:12:44,080 - Later is better than earlier for me. 1442 01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:46,520 Like closer, I mean, we can maybe hammer that out, 1443 01:12:46,520 --> 01:12:51,320 but sometime after three is, but later is better. 1444 01:12:51,320 --> 01:12:53,240 Like 4.30 is even more ideal. 1445 01:12:53,240 --> 01:12:56,280 Are you good? 1446 01:12:56,280 --> 01:12:58,080 Okay, wow, that was magic. 1447 01:12:58,080 --> 01:13:00,160 Wow, that was amazing. 1448 01:13:00,160 --> 01:13:03,240 Okay, so now we're gonna hammer out a time. 1449 01:13:03,240 --> 01:13:07,500 I prefer later rather than earlier. 1450 01:13:07,500 --> 01:13:11,360 Could we say like four o'clock? 1451 01:13:12,760 --> 01:13:15,800 Does that work for people or is that still too early? 1452 01:13:15,800 --> 01:13:18,840 Four o'clock, yo, that's amazing. 1453 01:13:18,840 --> 01:13:20,040 Look what we did. 1454 01:13:20,040 --> 01:13:23,200 - Four o'clock works for staff as well. 1455 01:13:23,200 --> 01:13:26,560 - Holy cow, all right, so, okay. 1456 01:13:26,560 --> 01:13:30,240 So I'm gonna close the public hearing, yes? 1457 01:13:30,240 --> 01:13:33,600 - Amber, before you do, before you close the public hearing, 1458 01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:37,400 I just wanna make sure that we have the presentation 1459 01:13:37,400 --> 01:13:40,160 of staff entered into the record just to make sure 1460 01:13:40,160 --> 01:13:42,160 that was part of the public hearing item. 1461 01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:47,240 - All I'm saying is that the presentation that staff made 1462 01:13:47,240 --> 01:13:52,240 is, was made part of the record as far as the presentation. 1463 01:13:52,240 --> 01:13:56,240 - And I have the same request for my presentation. 1464 01:13:56,240 --> 01:14:03,920 - Amber, you look like you're. 1465 01:14:03,920 --> 01:14:05,480 - I'm not sure if I was supposed to say like, 1466 01:14:05,480 --> 01:14:06,680 like yes, we'll do that. 1467 01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:08,760 I'm not a lawyer, so, but yeah. 1468 01:14:08,760 --> 01:14:10,760 - Yes, you can mention those both on the record. 1469 01:14:10,760 --> 01:14:14,520 They are, yes, those will be in the public record, yes? 1470 01:14:14,520 --> 01:14:17,480 - Yes, thank you, thank you. 1471 01:14:17,480 --> 01:14:19,680 - Line, that's not in the script, Ron. 1472 01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:20,520 - Sorry about that. 1473 01:14:20,520 --> 01:14:23,200 - Okay, okay, so Mr. Sargent and Mr. Hanna, 1474 01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:26,320 does June 7th at four o'clock work for you both as well? 1475 01:14:26,320 --> 01:14:28,800 - This is Trey, it works for me. 1476 01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:31,400 - Yes, that works for me. 1477 01:14:31,400 --> 01:14:34,880 - Good, that was like magic, that was amazing. 1478 01:14:34,880 --> 01:14:38,160 Okay, so I will close the public hearing 1479 01:14:38,160 --> 01:14:40,400 and both the presentations are included 1480 01:14:40,400 --> 01:14:43,840 in the public record for all of that. 1481 01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:48,840 We are going to postpone item two C to June 7th at 4 p.m. 1482 01:14:48,840 --> 01:14:56,080 At that point, we will deliberate on the presentations 1483 01:14:56,080 --> 01:14:58,560 that we heard this evening, the information that we gathered 1484 01:14:58,560 --> 01:15:02,040 and we will make a decision at that time, correct? 1485 01:15:02,040 --> 01:15:05,560 - I have one question. 1486 01:15:05,560 --> 01:15:10,120 Will our June 7th meeting be Zoom or in-person? 1487 01:15:11,400 --> 01:15:14,600 - It will be virtual, it will be Zoom, yes. 1488 01:15:14,600 --> 01:15:16,760 - Thank you, that makes it easier as well. 1489 01:15:16,760 --> 01:15:19,160 Good, thank you, good question. 1490 01:15:19,160 --> 01:15:21,120 - Yes, good question. 1491 01:15:21,120 --> 01:15:26,120 - So with that, with all these papers, 1492 01:15:26,120 --> 01:15:29,120 are there any concluding items to be heard this evening? 1493 01:15:29,120 --> 01:15:36,760 No, okay, so with that, I will close the meeting for today. 1494 01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:41,480 The time now is 4/21. 1495 01:15:41,480 --> 01:15:44,320 Thank you all for your time and your attention. 1496 01:15:44,320 --> 01:15:47,800 I know sometimes it can be tricky to make these meetings 1497 01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:49,920 and I'm really grateful to everyone for being here. 1498 01:15:49,920 --> 01:15:52,320 I'm very grateful that we all can make June 7th 1499 01:15:52,320 --> 01:15:53,160 work for the applicants. 1500 01:15:53,160 --> 01:15:54,880 They've waited a very long time for an answer. 1501 01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:57,280 So thank you for making this possible. 1502 01:15:57,280 --> 01:16:00,120 We can meet again in two more weeks, yeah? 1503 01:16:00,120 --> 01:16:01,080 - Yes. 1504 01:16:01,080 --> 01:16:02,160 - Thank you. 1505 01:16:02,160 --> 01:16:03,000 - Thank you everyone. 1506 01:16:03,000 --> 01:16:04,000 - Thank you all very much. 1507 01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:04,840 - Thank you guys.