WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.680 Okay, welcome everybody to the scheduled May meeting of the Historic Landmark Commission. 00:00:06.680 --> 00:00:10.440 The first thing I want to note is that we do have a quorum present. 00:00:10.440 --> 00:00:14.400 So we are officially open for business. 00:00:14.400 --> 00:00:21.080 First up is the Pledge of Allegiance, if everyone will join me. 00:00:21.080 --> 00:00:29.480 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for 00:00:29.480 --> 00:00:40.360 which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:00:40.360 --> 00:00:51.120 Thank you, now the Texas Pledge of Allegiance, honor the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance 00:00:51.120 --> 00:00:55.760 to thee, Texas, one state under God, one and indivisible. 00:00:55.760 --> 00:00:59.760 Alrighty, thank you everybody that could be here. 00:00:59.760 --> 00:01:06.680 Ron, do you want to, at this point, give us an update on Ms. Cottrum? 00:01:06.680 --> 00:01:14.960 Yes, we heard late last week that Janelle Cottrum is no longer going to be able to serve 00:01:14.960 --> 00:01:22.160 on the HLC due to reasons that she no longer is a citizen, or a citizen resident, that 00:01:22.160 --> 00:01:24.360 is, with the city of Den. 00:01:24.360 --> 00:01:28.520 So, unfortunately, we will not have Janelle be joining us. 00:01:28.520 --> 00:01:36.040 We do, however, will be filling that seat as quickly as possible due to that we need 00:01:36.040 --> 00:01:42.680 one of the HLC commissioners to be an architect, so that will be something we are going to 00:01:42.680 --> 00:01:45.480 be doing as soon as we can. 00:01:45.480 --> 00:01:47.760 Okay, thank you. 00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:54.880 First up on our agenda is approval of the March 15th of 2021 minutes. 00:01:54.880 --> 00:02:00.120 I think you guys have that in your packet that was emailed to you. 00:02:00.120 --> 00:02:10.240 And this is HLC 21-0027 to move forward, I need a motion to approve or some changes. 00:02:10.240 --> 00:02:11.240 So move approval. 00:02:11.240 --> 00:02:14.240 Do we have a second? 00:02:14.240 --> 00:02:17.720 We have a second from Mary, who is muted. 00:02:17.720 --> 00:02:18.720 Second. 00:02:18.720 --> 00:02:23.440 Okay, so we have a motion and a second, any discussion? 00:02:23.440 --> 00:02:33.840 Okay, all those in favor indicate by raising your hand or waving at the screen. 00:02:33.840 --> 00:02:35.200 So it looks unanimous. 00:02:35.200 --> 00:02:43.000 So the minutes from March 15th, 2021 are approved. 00:02:43.000 --> 00:02:45.800 They are now signed. 00:02:45.800 --> 00:02:56.440 Second up for consideration is COA 21-0003, hold a public meeting and consider an application 00:02:56.440 --> 00:03:01.920 for a certificate of appropriateness in accordance with section 2.9.2 of the Dent Development 00:03:01.920 --> 00:03:08.960 Code to construct an awning and reconfigure the front facade windows at 219 Jago Street 00:03:08.960 --> 00:03:11.480 within the West Oak Historic District. 00:03:11.480 --> 00:03:17.000 This site is located on the west side of Jago Street, just north of West Oak Street. 00:03:17.000 --> 00:03:22.880 And I think I'll turn it over to Ron at this point to walk us through this one. 00:03:22.880 --> 00:03:29.720 Actually, Chair, this is one that I'm going to turn it to Cameron to make the presentation. 00:03:29.720 --> 00:03:36.560 Can everyone see my screen? 00:03:36.560 --> 00:03:39.600 No, not yet. 00:03:39.600 --> 00:03:41.600 Okay. 00:03:41.600 --> 00:03:46.200 Okay, wonderful. 00:03:46.200 --> 00:03:55.120 So the first item is 219 Jago Street regarding an entrance awning and window configuration. 00:03:55.120 --> 00:03:59.040 David Spada, who is the applicant, should be on the call. 00:03:59.040 --> 00:04:02.320 So if you have any questions at the end of this, you can refer some of the questions 00:04:02.320 --> 00:04:05.880 to him as well as myself. 00:04:05.880 --> 00:04:12.560 So just to give you some background of location, it's in the West Oak Area Historic District. 00:04:12.560 --> 00:04:16.520 The location itself is 219 Jago Street. 00:04:16.520 --> 00:04:20.520 It's on the west side of Jago Street, just north of West Oak Street. 00:04:20.520 --> 00:04:24.680 The applicant is David Spada, and the building was built circa 1925. 00:04:24.680 --> 00:04:29.480 Oh, full view, yes, sorry. 00:04:29.480 --> 00:04:30.480 Apologies. 00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:33.000 Hold on, everyone. 00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:40.760 Where is the, sorry, come on. 00:04:40.760 --> 00:04:43.640 This one, okay, thank you. 00:04:43.640 --> 00:04:44.640 Thank you. 00:04:44.640 --> 00:04:47.320 Okay, apologies, everyone. 00:04:47.320 --> 00:04:52.440 So the request is to build a new awning over the front main entrance, highlighted in the 00:04:52.440 --> 00:04:57.600 red box there, as well as redo the window configuration to the south or left side of 00:04:57.600 --> 00:04:59.280 the entrance. 00:04:59.280 --> 00:05:02.620 These will both be visible along Jago Street. 00:05:02.620 --> 00:05:07.920 So as you can see here in these photos, the front facade in circa 2020 is on the right 00:05:07.920 --> 00:05:17.360 hand side, and then we have our front facade currently circa 2021. 00:05:17.360 --> 00:05:21.880 This is showing the front elevation from Jago Street. 00:05:21.880 --> 00:05:27.920 They are proposing, as you can see here, the existing or the proposed awning, which is 00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:33.880 over the door, it would be proposed wooden awning with brackets to match the existing 00:05:33.880 --> 00:05:42.360 wooden eave and brackets, and the top of the awning would have the awning shingles, would 00:05:42.360 --> 00:05:44.680 match the roof as well. 00:05:44.680 --> 00:05:49.640 And then in terms of the windows themselves, we would have the multi-light double hung windows 00:05:49.640 --> 00:05:54.860 to match those windows as you saw in 2020. 00:05:54.860 --> 00:05:59.240 And then in terms of the siding color, it would be this mountain road, as you see here, 00:05:59.240 --> 00:06:04.480 and then our trim and brick colors would be this natural choice. 00:06:04.480 --> 00:06:10.040 So just as a reminder to everyone, we should use the Secretary of Interior standards for 00:06:10.040 --> 00:06:14.080 the treatment of historic properties as a guideline for this consideration. 00:06:14.080 --> 00:06:21.440 And then looking at section 4.9.6(c) of the DDC, I specify below the architectural requirements 00:06:21.440 --> 00:06:27.520 in the West Oak Area Historic District regarding to architectural detail, awnings, additions, 00:06:27.520 --> 00:06:32.840 roof forms, as well as windows and doors, kind of just a breakdown of those roof forms. 00:06:32.840 --> 00:06:36.400 Once again, we're looking at the material and colors, we're looking at patterns, and 00:06:36.400 --> 00:06:39.240 we're looking at the slope and pitch. 00:06:39.240 --> 00:06:43.720 In terms of windows and doors, we're looking at those front facade openings, we're looking 00:06:43.720 --> 00:06:52.720 at the glass, the style that is presented, as well as the size, the frames, and the openings. 00:06:52.720 --> 00:06:57.440 Staff recommends approval of the COA request to install an awning over the main entrance 00:06:57.440 --> 00:07:02.900 and the reconfigure of the windows to the south of the main entrance. 00:07:02.900 --> 00:07:09.240 So if anyone has any questions. 00:07:09.240 --> 00:07:15.320 Can you show us the start again so that I kind of got confused on the very first picture 00:07:15.320 --> 00:07:20.440 you shared, which was the original and kind of went from downhill from there? 00:07:20.440 --> 00:07:21.440 Sure. 00:07:21.440 --> 00:07:22.440 No problem. 00:07:22.440 --> 00:07:23.800 Hold on a second. 00:07:23.800 --> 00:07:41.000 Are you looking specifically at this one? 00:07:41.000 --> 00:07:42.000 That one. 00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:43.000 Yeah. 00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:44.000 Okay. 00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:45.000 So what are the differences? 00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:46.400 I mean, what's the one on the two on the right? 00:07:46.400 --> 00:07:50.960 The two on the right are the front facade in 2020. 00:07:50.960 --> 00:07:55.840 The contractor didn't know that they required to get a COA. 00:07:55.840 --> 00:08:02.400 So they had started working on the project and I asked them to stop working until they 00:08:02.400 --> 00:08:04.520 got that COA. 00:08:04.520 --> 00:08:07.840 So these are the original windows here on the right hand side. 00:08:07.840 --> 00:08:11.840 And then these original left hand windows with the metal awnings above. 00:08:11.840 --> 00:08:19.440 And what the applicant is proposing is this new awning with the wooden brackets to match 00:08:19.440 --> 00:08:22.820 the current slope and pitch of this roof. 00:08:22.820 --> 00:08:30.560 As well as multi-light double hung windows to be placed on the left hand side. 00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:33.560 And the right, which they've taken out and put up different windows? 00:08:33.560 --> 00:08:34.560 Right. 00:08:34.560 --> 00:08:39.560 So the right hand side, they would be adding and making the multi-light windows. 00:08:39.560 --> 00:08:42.360 That's just by putting a little plastic in, right? 00:08:42.360 --> 00:08:44.560 Or am I just missing the idea? 00:08:44.560 --> 00:08:47.440 They've taken out the old windows and trashed them, right? 00:08:47.440 --> 00:08:56.520 Yes, they currently put the older windows, they took them out due to energy issues and 00:08:56.520 --> 00:09:02.760 then they proposed these multi-light double hung windows. 00:09:02.760 --> 00:09:07.600 Will they be individual panels or just a little piece of plastic, which is not the same? 00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:08.600 It'll be multi-light. 00:09:08.600 --> 00:09:09.600 So not multi-pane. 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:10.600 No. 00:09:10.600 --> 00:09:17.960 That's kind of not really in character in the historic district or did I miss it. 00:09:17.960 --> 00:09:22.640 And in fact, you can make older windows quite work. 00:09:22.640 --> 00:09:25.640 It just is kind of expensive. 00:09:25.640 --> 00:09:29.240 I mean, it's changed already now, so we're just going to put little pieces of plastic 00:09:29.240 --> 00:09:41.540 and say, oh, it's regular, it doesn't matter. 00:09:41.540 --> 00:09:42.540 Okay. 00:09:42.540 --> 00:09:43.540 Any other- 00:09:43.540 --> 00:09:44.540 David, are you, sorry, Chair. 00:09:44.540 --> 00:09:45.540 Go ahead, Cameron. 00:09:45.540 --> 00:09:49.520 David, Spada, are you on the call by chance? 00:09:49.520 --> 00:09:51.840 Okay. 00:09:51.840 --> 00:09:53.440 I guess not. 00:09:53.440 --> 00:09:59.940 The applicant had wanted to be on the call regarding this application, but I guess he 00:09:59.940 --> 00:10:01.280 was unable to join. 00:10:01.280 --> 00:10:06.120 Cameron, can you also remind me about color choices? 00:10:06.120 --> 00:10:11.120 Color choices, they are not dedicated in the West Oak Area Historic District. 00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:13.280 They do not require a COA. 00:10:13.280 --> 00:10:19.440 They just need to be complimentary to the area as well as the historic pallets. 00:10:19.440 --> 00:10:23.000 So technically those are not under review in this COA process. 00:10:23.000 --> 00:10:25.560 Are they technically into the historic pallets? 00:10:25.560 --> 00:10:27.360 You said they were. 00:10:27.360 --> 00:10:30.360 That's why I'm asking. 00:10:30.360 --> 00:10:31.360 Yes. 00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:38.480 You ever heard of Mountain, whatever? 00:10:38.480 --> 00:10:40.620 Okay. 00:10:40.620 --> 00:10:42.920 So I have a question, Cameron. 00:10:42.920 --> 00:10:46.920 When this house was originally built, all of these individual windows were individual 00:10:46.920 --> 00:10:47.920 panes, right? 00:10:47.920 --> 00:10:50.920 In wooden frames? 00:10:50.920 --> 00:10:53.400 Okay. 00:10:53.400 --> 00:10:56.160 Okay. 00:10:56.160 --> 00:11:02.140 Are there any other questions for the staff? 00:11:02.140 --> 00:11:03.800 Just our options on here. 00:11:03.800 --> 00:11:04.800 Okay. 00:11:04.800 --> 00:11:13.700 So at this point, our options are to, and any of these would need a motion to either 00:11:13.700 --> 00:11:20.400 approve as submitted, approve subject to conditions, to deny or continue the item, I believe, to 00:11:20.400 --> 00:11:21.400 a specific date. 00:11:21.400 --> 00:11:27.200 Any of those would need a motion and a second, in which case we would move to discussion. 00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:34.400 I believe failing a motion, this thing is approved in, excuse me, Ron, would that be 00:11:34.400 --> 00:11:39.120 180 days? 00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:41.320 I have a motion. 00:11:41.320 --> 00:11:42.320 Okay. 00:11:42.320 --> 00:11:43.320 Go ahead. 00:11:43.320 --> 00:11:49.460 I move that we deny the COA on the basis that the window frames do not match historic character 00:11:49.460 --> 00:11:52.400 and they do not replace what was there. 00:11:52.400 --> 00:11:53.400 Okay. 00:11:53.400 --> 00:11:54.400 We have a motion on the floor. 00:11:54.400 --> 00:11:55.400 Is there a second? 00:11:55.400 --> 00:11:56.400 I do second that. 00:11:56.400 --> 00:11:57.400 Yeah. 00:11:57.400 --> 00:11:58.400 It just, it doesn't look right. 00:11:58.400 --> 00:11:59.400 And it's front-facing. 00:11:59.400 --> 00:12:00.400 All right. 00:12:00.400 --> 00:12:01.400 Great. 00:12:01.400 --> 00:12:08.280 So we have a motion and a second, so I will throw the floor open for discussion. 00:12:08.280 --> 00:12:13.760 If we need to go back to staff to question this, but let's air this one out. 00:12:13.760 --> 00:12:14.760 Go ahead. 00:12:14.760 --> 00:12:15.760 Just take off. 00:12:15.760 --> 00:12:22.880 Well, Cameron, would you remind us again of what you said the requirements were? 00:12:22.880 --> 00:12:25.880 The requirements for the window? 00:12:25.880 --> 00:12:26.880 Yes. 00:12:26.880 --> 00:12:30.180 They are required to match the style and period of the home. 00:12:30.180 --> 00:12:36.560 So the home has previously been altered into a 1950s home in terms of those windows that 00:12:36.560 --> 00:12:37.840 currently exist. 00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:41.420 However, it was built in the 1920s. 00:12:41.420 --> 00:12:50.280 So I guess it is dependent upon which era people are choosing to base this approval 00:12:50.280 --> 00:12:51.280 or denial upon. 00:12:51.280 --> 00:12:59.560 Well, even a 50s home is 60 years old now, and that is antique. 00:12:59.560 --> 00:13:05.720 When the historical district was made, what kind of windows did it have then? 00:13:05.720 --> 00:13:09.400 The period of significance? 00:13:09.400 --> 00:13:17.020 Is that what you're asking, Lenny? 00:13:17.020 --> 00:13:20.760 When was the historical district established? 00:13:20.760 --> 00:13:23.840 It was established, I believe, in the early 2000s. 00:13:23.840 --> 00:13:24.840 Yes. 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:29.280 And what kind of windows were in this house at that time? 00:13:29.280 --> 00:13:41.560 The ones that you see -- So we're asking him to go back and put in something that wasn't 00:13:41.560 --> 00:13:45.400 in there when it was taken into the historical district? 00:13:45.400 --> 00:13:46.400 Correct. 00:13:46.400 --> 00:13:47.400 Yes. 00:13:47.400 --> 00:13:48.400 No, no, no. 00:13:48.400 --> 00:13:49.400 We are not asking him to take something back that wasn't there. 00:13:49.400 --> 00:13:54.640 We're just asking him to match what was there before he ripped it out. 00:13:54.640 --> 00:13:58.040 That doesn't seem to be what she's telling me. 00:13:58.040 --> 00:14:01.200 That's what I heard, that he's -- from the pictures you showed me, Cameron, he ripped 00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:07.560 out and put just plain glass front, the picture you showed me had divided single pane windows. 00:14:07.560 --> 00:14:10.320 Now, maybe I missed it. 00:14:10.320 --> 00:14:11.320 Correct. 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:15.080 So this is currently what he has because he was asked to stop work. 00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:21.080 So the front facade currently in 2021, he was asked to stop work and not continue working 00:14:21.080 --> 00:14:26.200 on the facade due to the fact that he needed a COA. 00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:37.400 So the front right facade in the 2021, that shows the previous facade with the three windows 00:14:37.400 --> 00:14:42.400 that are multi-pane windows and then the left-hand side. 00:14:42.400 --> 00:14:52.780 So he has proposed putting in these multi-light double-hung windows to be more representative 00:14:52.780 --> 00:14:55.400 of what originally was there. 00:14:55.400 --> 00:15:00.220 But multi-light windows are not individual planes, they're little plastic dividers that 00:15:00.220 --> 00:15:03.040 can easily be popped in and out, right? 00:15:03.040 --> 00:15:04.040 Correct. 00:15:04.040 --> 00:15:08.520 So they're not really representative of the time period? 00:15:08.520 --> 00:15:14.440 No, they're not representative of the time period, but they provide the same style of 00:15:14.440 --> 00:15:17.520 the same -- of the period. 00:15:17.520 --> 00:15:19.960 Okay. 00:15:19.960 --> 00:15:20.960 Any further discussion? 00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:22.720 I mean, Evan, jump in here. 00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:24.320 Yeah, I agree with Mary on this. 00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:31.440 I mean, it's -- I think these should be individual panes, ideally with wood, and it's -- I mean, 00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:38.360 just because it's front-facing like that and so obviously not what it originally was, yeah, 00:15:38.360 --> 00:15:40.720 I don't think it looks good. 00:15:40.720 --> 00:15:43.320 Okay, well, I have a question. 00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:48.920 Would we be better to modify our motion to approve with that change or you want to just 00:15:48.920 --> 00:15:51.280 deny it and let him come back? 00:15:51.280 --> 00:15:52.280 I'm ambivalent. 00:15:52.280 --> 00:15:54.680 I mean, I don't care for the windows. 00:15:54.680 --> 00:16:00.360 I think we need to change them until we can deny them in which case he has to come back 00:16:00.360 --> 00:16:04.200 or we can approve it subject to that. 00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:05.720 But this is a pretty big change. 00:16:05.720 --> 00:16:07.720 I'm -- anybody -- let's talk about the awnings. 00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:09.760 Anybody have heartburn over the awning? 00:16:09.760 --> 00:16:11.280 I just didn't check the angle out. 00:16:11.280 --> 00:16:12.280 I'm sorry. 00:16:12.280 --> 00:16:15.560 I was so interested in the windows, I didn't see the proportionality to it. 00:16:15.560 --> 00:16:21.120 I mean, that's totally different than what was there, and that -- I'd love to hear what 00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:25.320 everybody else said, but before we go on, I mean, do we not have to continue on the 00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:26.320 motion? 00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:28.040 Well, I guess we denied it based on that. 00:16:28.040 --> 00:16:29.040 You're right. 00:16:29.040 --> 00:16:30.040 I'm sorry. 00:16:30.040 --> 00:16:31.040 I'm sorry, Roy. 00:16:31.040 --> 00:16:32.040 You're right. 00:16:32.040 --> 00:16:35.720 Once discussion is done, we'll vote. 00:16:35.720 --> 00:16:39.400 Mary, we haven't designed -- not denied your motion yet. 00:16:39.400 --> 00:16:40.400 No, I know. 00:16:40.400 --> 00:16:41.400 I'm sorry. 00:16:41.400 --> 00:16:42.400 I didn't follow. 00:16:42.400 --> 00:16:44.840 No, it's still on the table. 00:16:44.840 --> 00:16:50.760 I was just trying to establish whether or not -- he was the one that took out those windows 00:16:50.760 --> 00:16:57.800 where they were already changed before he bought the property. 00:16:57.800 --> 00:17:03.200 And I think based on the pictures, the historical windows were there in 2020, if I understand 00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:06.000 the dates right. 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:07.000 Is that correct, Cameron? 00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:08.000 That is correct. 00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:09.000 That's what I'm now understanding. 00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:10.000 Yes. 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:11.000 That is correct. 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:12.000 Okay. 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:13.960 Any further discussion? 00:17:13.960 --> 00:17:19.720 Well, I would like some response to your question, Roy. 00:17:19.720 --> 00:17:26.780 Does it make a significant difference in what kind of hoops we leap through, whether we 00:17:26.780 --> 00:17:32.160 deny it or whether we approve it with those conditions? 00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:39.360 Ms. Berry, do you have anything to throw in here? 00:17:39.360 --> 00:17:48.960 Yeah, I was trying to get off of my phone and onto my computer, and now I was back home. 00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:53.900 Looking at this -- if somebody can let me in the Zoom for my home, I can look at this 00:17:53.900 --> 00:17:54.900 better. 00:17:54.900 --> 00:17:59.440 But looking at it previously, you know, I share the same concern about the consistency 00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:07.000 of the design in the front, and with regard to saying that those windows were there in 00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:14.920 2020, were they there as a result of work that was done without the permit? 00:18:14.920 --> 00:18:19.280 And does that make a difference? 00:18:19.280 --> 00:18:22.360 I may have missed part of the discussion. 00:18:22.360 --> 00:18:23.360 Can you all still hear me? 00:18:23.360 --> 00:18:24.360 Am I frozen? 00:18:24.360 --> 00:18:25.360 No. 00:18:25.360 --> 00:18:26.360 No, we can hear you, Sandra. 00:18:26.360 --> 00:18:27.360 Okay. 00:18:27.360 --> 00:18:31.480 So when you said those windows were the ones that are pictured were there in 2020, was 00:18:31.480 --> 00:18:34.280 that done? 00:18:34.280 --> 00:18:35.280 Was it approved? 00:18:35.280 --> 00:18:38.960 Or was it like, okay, it's done? 00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:43.000 The ones that you saw that were on the right-hand side were the wooden windows. 00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:45.160 Let me get off of this one. 00:18:45.160 --> 00:18:46.160 There you go. 00:18:46.160 --> 00:18:48.720 See, the ones on the right are the ones that were there in 2020. 00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:55.960 The person that's redoing it just ripped them all out now in 2021 without approval and started 00:18:55.960 --> 00:19:02.600 doing stuff without approval, because it's easier to get forgiveness than permission. 00:19:02.600 --> 00:19:06.080 So I couldn't see what the windows looked like. 00:19:06.080 --> 00:19:10.280 If you look at the upper right one, you can see it's divided. 00:19:10.280 --> 00:19:13.920 I can see now that it is. 00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:23.160 Why is the proposed plan to have the new windows not duplicate what is on the right-hand side? 00:19:23.160 --> 00:19:26.160 What's the ...? 00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:30.940 Cassandra, so the proposed is this ... Can you see my screen? 00:19:30.940 --> 00:19:31.940 Uh-huh. 00:19:31.940 --> 00:19:32.940 Yes. 00:19:32.940 --> 00:19:41.040 The proposed is to replace what was current existing and replace it with multi-light double-hung 00:19:41.040 --> 00:19:43.400 windows. 00:19:43.400 --> 00:19:46.080 So multi-light does not mean individual pain. 00:19:46.080 --> 00:19:50.840 It just means that there's a window grid usually placed on the window itself. 00:19:50.840 --> 00:20:00.680 So it does meet our policies in terms of meeting the style, but in terms of the actual period, 00:20:00.680 --> 00:20:04.320 it can be up to discussion. 00:20:04.320 --> 00:20:07.960 Do we know the kind of windows that are going in? 00:20:07.960 --> 00:20:09.880 Aluminum, texture? 00:20:09.880 --> 00:20:12.400 We currently do not know the types of windows going in. 00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:20.040 We know that they're energy-efficient, and we just ask that they're not reflective. 00:20:20.040 --> 00:20:25.360 In terms of the glass, we ask that they're just not reflected, tinted, or mirrored, or 00:20:25.360 --> 00:20:26.360 plastic. 00:20:26.360 --> 00:20:30.920 It would have to be wood framing. 00:20:30.920 --> 00:20:33.880 Okay. 00:20:33.880 --> 00:20:36.000 Any further discussion? 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:38.800 Did we not ever get an answer to your question, Roy? 00:20:38.800 --> 00:20:43.200 About the awning, I think that's what we were talking about. 00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:48.960 In looking at the pictures, the old awnings appeared to be canvas and circular or rounded, 00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:49.960 and the new ... 00:20:49.960 --> 00:20:50.960 I think they were metal. 00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:51.960 I think those were ... 00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:52.960 They were metal. 00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:53.960 Fashion metal. 00:20:53.960 --> 00:20:54.960 Correct. 00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:55.960 It was the period of the '50s kind of thing. 00:20:55.960 --> 00:20:56.960 It was the '40s, '50s somewhere. 00:20:56.960 --> 00:21:04.100 That's the existing and then the proposed. 00:21:04.100 --> 00:21:12.960 The proposed wooden roof awning appears to match the roof line and all that. 00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:18.080 Without being able to see what this thing would have looked like in 1925, I don't know whether 00:21:18.080 --> 00:21:23.000 that's period or not. 00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:27.080 It's reflective of many of the homes in the area. 00:21:27.080 --> 00:21:32.480 There are examples of a simple awning like this, but there's also examples of porches 00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:37.660 themselves with a similar roof and slope and pitch. 00:21:37.660 --> 00:21:44.240 This is more reflective of the period of the 1920s versus this metal awnings, as you see 00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:45.240 here. 00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:49.000 It does change the whole look of the front. 00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:53.200 It no longer has any awnings on the windows. 00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:56.800 The question is, what are we actually winding up with? 00:21:56.800 --> 00:22:00.840 What kind of Frankenhaus are we going to have here? 00:22:00.840 --> 00:22:05.680 Are we going to go for the style that was last there, or are we going to just ignore 00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:10.320 the awnings vanished on the windows? 00:22:10.320 --> 00:22:14.320 The metal awnings were a 1950s edition, right? 00:22:14.320 --> 00:22:23.080 So we're probably the windows too, but we don't know that for sure. 00:22:23.080 --> 00:22:28.560 The motion on the floor is to deny this application. 00:22:28.560 --> 00:22:35.640 We have a properly filed second, so why don't we just, how about we do name calls? 00:22:35.640 --> 00:22:40.360 Ms. Berry, yay or nay? 00:22:40.360 --> 00:22:44.520 Can you clarify that if you say yay, that means to deny? 00:22:44.520 --> 00:22:45.520 Yes. 00:22:45.520 --> 00:22:47.400 A yay vote is to deny the application. 00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:53.240 The motion is to deny, so we're voting yay would be to approve the motion, which is to 00:22:53.240 --> 00:22:54.240 deny. 00:22:54.240 --> 00:22:59.840 Yay, because I don't think I have enough information and want to move it forward. 00:22:59.840 --> 00:23:00.840 Okay. 00:23:00.840 --> 00:23:01.840 Melody? 00:23:01.840 --> 00:23:02.840 Yay. 00:23:02.840 --> 00:23:03.840 Evan? 00:23:03.840 --> 00:23:04.840 Yay. 00:23:04.840 --> 00:23:05.840 Lenny? 00:23:05.840 --> 00:23:22.840 Yay, but we didn't clarify what the awnings, what they were exactly going to look like 00:23:22.840 --> 00:23:31.120 and whether they were to match, and I think he needs to know that along with the denial. 00:23:31.120 --> 00:23:36.280 He needs to know what would be acceptable for awnings. 00:23:36.280 --> 00:23:39.040 Okay. 00:23:39.040 --> 00:23:45.160 I'm not sure the parliamentary move here, but why don't we just temporarily suspend voting 00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:48.160 and see if Cameron can clarify that. 00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:54.200 The awning he's proposing is 1920s period, and I think he's not coming back with any 00:23:54.200 --> 00:24:03.440 of the awnings over the windows, just the flat pitched inverted V. Is that correct, 00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:04.440 Cameron? 00:24:04.440 --> 00:24:05.440 Yes, that's correct. 00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:11.200 So he's matching the original roof line with its slope and pitch, and that is the awning 00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:12.440 that he's presenting. 00:24:12.440 --> 00:24:15.080 So that is the 1920s. 00:24:15.080 --> 00:24:22.120 He is not presenting kind of what is shown currently, which is more 1950s style. 00:24:22.120 --> 00:24:29.320 So I think based off that, that seems to be kind of where we're kind of mixed up in the 00:24:29.320 --> 00:24:33.960 discussion as whether we're wanting it to be a 1920s home or if we're looking to be 00:24:33.960 --> 00:24:36.400 a 1950s home. 00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:40.040 So I, yeah. 00:24:40.040 --> 00:24:41.800 Okay. 00:24:41.800 --> 00:24:44.840 So let's back up and just verify the vote. 00:24:44.840 --> 00:24:48.880 Any other questions while we're suspended? 00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:58.160 So are we saying that it's okay just to have the awning over the door and no window awnings? 00:24:58.160 --> 00:25:02.920 Is that what is understood to be a part of this motion? 00:25:02.920 --> 00:25:07.320 Well, okay. 00:25:07.320 --> 00:25:12.200 The motion denied sends him back to the drawing board where he has to redo his COA and bring 00:25:12.200 --> 00:25:13.200 something back. 00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:19.000 If we want to make suggestions, this would be the time to do it. 00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:25.680 Cameron, when he gets notification of rejection, do you explain to him what we didn't like? 00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:30.960 I can, but it would be more helpful if it was coming from you all, specifically what 00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:36.560 you're looking for, whether you're wanting it to be, if you all are looking for it to 00:25:36.560 --> 00:25:41.640 be more of the, like I said, the 1920s home that it originally was, or if you're looking 00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:52.000 for him to alter it and make additions that are similar to what we see in our 2020 façade. 00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:54.120 I might have a suggestion. 00:25:54.120 --> 00:25:59.480 There are pictures of old homes, even from before the Courtauld House burned down. 00:25:59.480 --> 00:26:04.480 There are tiny little postage stamp things that I've forgotten who saved them. 00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:07.720 I thought it was Dolores Vann, but I can't swear to it. 00:26:07.720 --> 00:26:09.600 They're about one inch by one inch. 00:26:09.600 --> 00:26:13.580 He could go back, and those are from the '40s, and look at that. 00:26:13.580 --> 00:26:15.680 That might support what he's up to. 00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:21.280 The fact that it's kind of this Franken style is kind of unsettling, and we don't really 00:26:21.280 --> 00:26:22.280 know where it's going. 00:26:22.280 --> 00:26:27.760 If he had one of those and showed that the awnings weren't there, it would be easy, right? 00:26:27.760 --> 00:26:32.480 My sense is that everybody would prefer us to be in the '20s with regard to the styling 00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:33.480 on this home. 00:26:33.480 --> 00:26:36.320 Yeah, I think so. 00:26:36.320 --> 00:26:39.400 That does not include awnings over the windows? 00:26:39.400 --> 00:26:40.400 Correct. 00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:41.400 Okay. 00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:46.640 I just think he deserves to clearly know what we were thinking, so that- 00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:50.400 Go ahead, Melody. 00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:52.120 Okay. 00:26:52.120 --> 00:26:59.120 I'm just listening to this, and it sounds like we have two issues that we need to address. 00:26:59.120 --> 00:27:06.320 First of all, we have the windows. 00:27:06.320 --> 00:27:13.080 We have to offer them some direction as to what we want them to do with those windows. 00:27:13.080 --> 00:27:20.460 If we're going to deny this, then we have to offer them some more specific instructions 00:27:20.460 --> 00:27:26.640 as to why we are denying this. 00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:30.040 I don't think that is an awning above the porch. 00:27:30.040 --> 00:27:38.020 I don't know that that can be classified as an awning if it is a solid structure that 00:27:38.020 --> 00:27:45.180 it's more of a roof, porch roof, than it is an awning. 00:27:45.180 --> 00:27:47.680 Is that correct? 00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:54.660 In terms of our DDC, we have awnings described more so as what's shown by the applicant. 00:27:54.660 --> 00:27:59.000 Porches are, in the DDC, described as supported by columns. 00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:05.400 That is why it's referred to as an awning, but it's a little messy in terms of what's 00:28:05.400 --> 00:28:07.000 shown in the DDC. 00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:10.880 It is labeled an awning in the DDC, but I understand what you're talking about in terms 00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:12.520 it is more of a porch roof. 00:28:12.520 --> 00:28:16.600 However, when we're discussing porches, it's usually supported by a column. 00:28:16.600 --> 00:28:17.600 Okay. 00:28:17.600 --> 00:28:20.600 All right. 00:28:20.600 --> 00:28:22.880 Okay. 00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:23.880 Any other questions? 00:28:23.880 --> 00:28:24.880 Yes. 00:28:24.880 --> 00:28:27.840 Well, I just have one other comment that might help the applicant come back when he's going 00:28:27.840 --> 00:28:33.960 to talk about the windows since we've kind of suggested the '20s kind of look. 00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:39.280 If he showed the frame around the windows that matched the style of a '20s house, might 00:28:39.280 --> 00:28:43.560 be useful because I don't remember what he showed, but it was very nondescript. 00:28:43.560 --> 00:28:50.920 I think the '20s style had a little ... My 1914 house has a little bit of trim around 00:28:50.920 --> 00:28:54.680 the edge that's a little bit decorative and not just plain flat boring. 00:28:54.680 --> 00:28:56.160 I think that that should be included. 00:28:56.160 --> 00:29:01.880 We might get that from that little snippet that was saved from the courthouse. 00:29:01.880 --> 00:29:04.600 It would make it look holistic. 00:29:04.600 --> 00:29:09.360 I don't want to come across as being mean, but tearing things down certainly doesn't 00:29:09.360 --> 00:29:13.440 lend one to getting a friendly review. 00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:17.440 We don't want to stop people from making money, but we do want them to keep in mind that this 00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:18.440 is our neighborhood. 00:29:18.440 --> 00:29:26.900 He probably doesn't live here and probably won't live here. 00:29:26.900 --> 00:29:33.200 I beg your pardon, but could we see it one more time? 00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:34.200 Sure. 00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:35.200 No problem. 00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:41.880 Lenny, which one ... Do you just want to see the photos of the facade or do you want to 00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:42.880 see the proposed? 00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:45.960 I want to see the proposed. 00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:46.960 Okay. 00:29:46.960 --> 00:29:50.280 Hold on a second. 00:29:50.280 --> 00:30:05.560 This is our proposed. 00:30:05.560 --> 00:30:06.920 Can you go back once more, Cameron? 00:30:06.920 --> 00:30:07.920 Yes. 00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:08.920 No problem. 00:30:08.920 --> 00:30:15.640 I was just trying to look at the little things at top and I can't really see them, but it 00:30:15.640 --> 00:30:17.960 does look like they're a little bit ... They're not square. 00:30:17.960 --> 00:30:18.960 They're kind of curved. 00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:19.960 Okay. 00:30:19.960 --> 00:30:20.960 Then to the proposed. 00:30:20.960 --> 00:30:21.960 Yeah. 00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:27.280 Those are so flat on it's hard to see what they are, but I think a little window detail 00:30:27.280 --> 00:30:34.720 would certainly be useful and awning ... What is the little support thing, the little bracket? 00:30:34.720 --> 00:30:35.720 Right. 00:30:35.720 --> 00:30:36.720 Yes. 00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:37.720 It's a wooden bracket, but no. 00:30:37.720 --> 00:30:38.720 Lenny, is it curved? 00:30:38.720 --> 00:30:39.720 What's the shape? 00:30:39.720 --> 00:30:43.400 You can see that the others are curved, but this could be a square bracket, right? 00:30:43.400 --> 00:30:44.400 Right. 00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:46.920 It could be kind of a curve, gently sloping. 00:30:46.920 --> 00:30:51.160 It should match the existing brackets. 00:30:51.160 --> 00:30:52.160 And back one more time. 00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:54.160 I was just going to look at the wood on the previous one. 00:30:54.160 --> 00:30:55.160 I know. 00:30:55.160 --> 00:30:56.160 Okay. 00:30:56.160 --> 00:30:57.160 Now I'm good. 00:30:57.160 --> 00:30:58.160 I'm happy now. 00:30:58.160 --> 00:30:59.160 Thank you. 00:30:59.160 --> 00:31:03.600 I just ... I couldn't believe that it was brick down here, to be honest, that that brick 00:31:03.600 --> 00:31:07.800 was actually ... I'm sure it wasn't original, but- 00:31:07.800 --> 00:31:08.800 Right. 00:31:08.800 --> 00:31:09.800 Okay. 00:31:09.800 --> 00:31:12.640 So back to our motion. 00:31:12.640 --> 00:31:15.440 We're going to start our vote over since we've had some discussion. 00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:20.640 The motion is to deny, and the reasons are that the windows don't properly match the 00:31:20.640 --> 00:31:30.400 period of the 20s, and that while ... And we would suggest that they add some period 00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:35.280 trim, perhaps, around the windows. 00:31:35.280 --> 00:31:40.560 I didn't hear a lot of objections about the awning, other than that it was plain that 00:31:40.560 --> 00:31:47.440 as long as the supports match the existing roof supports, it might look okay. 00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:53.520 So the motion is to deny, a yes vote means that you want to deny. 00:31:53.520 --> 00:31:55.520 We'll start with Mary this time. 00:31:55.520 --> 00:31:56.520 Yay. 00:31:56.520 --> 00:31:57.520 Okay. 00:31:57.520 --> 00:31:58.520 Lennie. 00:31:58.520 --> 00:31:59.520 Yay. 00:31:59.520 --> 00:32:00.520 Evan. 00:32:00.520 --> 00:32:01.520 Yay. 00:32:01.520 --> 00:32:02.520 Melody. 00:32:02.520 --> 00:32:05.520 Oh, she's muted, Melody. 00:32:05.520 --> 00:32:07.440 She's muted. 00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:10.800 Oh, it's okay. 00:32:10.800 --> 00:32:12.520 I can come back to you. 00:32:12.520 --> 00:32:14.720 I'm sorry. 00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:16.560 Yay. 00:32:16.560 --> 00:32:27.360 What is your question, Mary and Melody, since you're not clear or comfortable? 00:32:27.360 --> 00:32:38.600 I just pulled up the Zillow view of the house, and all of the windows, all of the wooden 00:32:38.600 --> 00:32:42.200 windows were not ... They were pained. 00:32:42.200 --> 00:32:51.840 I mean, they had pains in them, except the one was a ... They were pained windows on 00:32:51.840 --> 00:32:55.000 each side of a picture window. 00:32:55.000 --> 00:33:01.680 That's the left side as we look at it. 00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:03.640 Right. 00:33:03.640 --> 00:33:08.440 So would you like to suggest that they bring something back that more closely matches the 00:33:08.440 --> 00:33:12.440 original when they come back? 00:33:12.440 --> 00:33:14.560 Those look like wooden windows. 00:33:14.560 --> 00:33:22.640 I mean, just from the quality of this window that I'm looking at, and if we're going to 00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:30.920 ask them to bring it back as closely as possible, then it should match this picture of the wooden 00:33:30.920 --> 00:33:36.280 windows, the configuration of the wooden windows. 00:33:36.280 --> 00:33:37.280 Okay. 00:33:37.280 --> 00:33:41.480 I'm seeing a lot of nodding heads, so we'll include that in the instructions, and they 00:33:41.480 --> 00:33:44.280 obviously have the right to come back with whatever. 00:33:44.280 --> 00:33:47.080 Cassandra, what's your vote? 00:33:47.080 --> 00:33:48.080 Yay. 00:33:48.080 --> 00:33:49.080 Yay. 00:33:49.080 --> 00:33:55.200 Okay, Roy will vote yes, so it's unanimously denied. 00:33:55.200 --> 00:34:07.120 Okay, next up on our agenda is COA 21-0004, hold a public meeting and consider an application 00:34:07.120 --> 00:34:12.160 for certificate of appropriateness in accordance with Section 2.9.2 of the Dent Development 00:34:12.160 --> 00:34:18.920 Code to remove the flower boxes and replace the exterior ground floor windows at 120 West 00:34:18.920 --> 00:34:25.920 Oak, a local historic landmark, and a contributing building to the Denton County Courthouse Square 00:34:25.920 --> 00:34:29.000 National Register Historic District. 00:34:29.000 --> 00:34:34.920 The site is located on the northeast corner of North Elm Street and West Oak Street. 00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:42.200 Okay, Cameron, I'll let you take it from here. 00:34:42.200 --> 00:34:43.520 Okay. 00:34:43.520 --> 00:34:52.360 So, as the Chair stated, our next agenda item is at 120 West Oak Street. 00:34:52.360 --> 00:34:56.000 It's for the flower box removal and new windows. 00:34:56.000 --> 00:34:57.000 So here's a map. 00:34:57.000 --> 00:34:59.200 It's just showing 120 West Oak Street. 00:34:59.200 --> 00:35:03.080 It's on the northeast corner of North Elm Street and West Oak Street. 00:35:03.080 --> 00:35:10.060 The applicant is Maurizio Povici, and it was built in circa 1890. 00:35:10.060 --> 00:35:15.440 So the request is to remove existing flower boxes and replace with wooden paneling. 00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:20.920 They will replace the existing ground floor windows with 80% minimum visible light transmittance 00:35:20.920 --> 00:35:23.920 glass, which is the Denton Square District requirement. 00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:28.020 And this is also visible along West Oak Street. 00:35:28.020 --> 00:35:31.840 So from here, you can see the plywood panel that they're wanting to replace with the flower 00:35:31.840 --> 00:35:33.840 boxes. 00:35:33.840 --> 00:35:38.480 They would be replacing the green paint that is on the exterior of the building currently 00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:41.440 with this ivory tower. 00:35:41.440 --> 00:35:46.880 And then, as you can see from this proposed drawing, they'll have the existing front door 00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:48.560 repainted as well. 00:35:48.560 --> 00:35:53.400 It shows the plywood paneling, which is about 24 inches tall, and then the replacement of 00:35:53.400 --> 00:35:56.440 the glass. 00:35:56.440 --> 00:36:01.000 So just as a reminder, we have the Secretary of Interior Standards. 00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:07.200 And then in terms of Section 4.10.1 of the DDC, it specifies the purpose and overall 00:36:07.200 --> 00:36:10.820 intent of the Denton Square District. 00:36:10.820 --> 00:36:15.320 So the purpose is to preserve historic resources and build upon the image of the square as 00:36:15.320 --> 00:36:20.260 the historic vibrant and small town heart of a growing city. 00:36:20.260 --> 00:36:25.880 And then our overall intent is to encourage creativity and architectural diversity while 00:36:25.880 --> 00:36:31.560 ensuring the overall historic character, encourage and support preservation, support building 00:36:31.560 --> 00:36:36.680 designs and use of design elements in new or renovated buildings that maintain and continue 00:36:36.680 --> 00:36:43.520 the historic design patterns, support the use of materials, promote urban vitality, 00:36:43.520 --> 00:36:47.000 and encourage the integration of art into the public. 00:36:47.000 --> 00:36:51.680 So below are the two relevant architectural requirements from the Denton Square District 00:36:51.680 --> 00:36:53.680 Standards and Guidelines. 00:36:53.680 --> 00:36:58.920 These are the façade material standards, which list the primary materials as well as 00:36:58.920 --> 00:37:04.800 the following materials used for accents and trims, as well as the standards for ground 00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:08.600 floor windows. 00:37:08.600 --> 00:37:13.000 So staff recommends approval of the COA in request to replace the existing ground floor 00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:15.920 windows and remove the flower boxes. 00:37:15.920 --> 00:37:18.400 Any questions? 00:37:18.400 --> 00:37:23.160 Okay, the floor is open for questions. 00:37:23.160 --> 00:37:26.760 Can you show the two pictures again? 00:37:26.760 --> 00:37:28.400 I couldn't quite figure out what building it was. 00:37:28.400 --> 00:37:31.960 I didn't have time to drive by and figure out which one was 120. 00:37:31.960 --> 00:37:37.680 So what's in there now? 00:37:37.680 --> 00:37:40.200 Nothing? 00:37:40.200 --> 00:37:42.640 The plan is to replace it with a marketplace. 00:37:42.640 --> 00:37:44.960 Oh, there's the thing. 00:37:44.960 --> 00:37:50.160 I couldn't see on my phone what the pictures were now. 00:37:50.160 --> 00:37:54.080 And all they want to do is put up just white façade there instead? 00:37:54.080 --> 00:37:55.080 Is that what you're saying? 00:37:55.080 --> 00:38:01.880 They would like to do this ivory tower that is post façade color, and they would be replacing 00:38:01.880 --> 00:38:07.320 the flower boxes with the plywood paneling, which is more representative of what you see 00:38:07.320 --> 00:38:10.940 in the district currently. 00:38:10.940 --> 00:38:14.000 This is currently the only structure with flower boxes. 00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:16.480 Nice idea. 00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:18.040 Yes. 00:38:18.040 --> 00:38:27.580 But okay, any other questions for staff? 00:38:27.580 --> 00:38:28.580 Hearing none. 00:38:28.580 --> 00:38:31.280 Well, make sure you wave because you're pretty small on the screen. 00:38:31.280 --> 00:38:37.360 Okay, so our options are, one, approve is submitted, two, approve subject to conditions, 00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:40.960 three, deny, or four, continue the item. 00:38:40.960 --> 00:38:43.080 Staff recommends approval of this item. 00:38:43.080 --> 00:38:47.480 In order to do anything, we need to have a motion and a second. 00:38:47.480 --> 00:38:49.440 Before we do that, can I ask a question? 00:38:49.440 --> 00:38:52.160 They say they're going to replace it with plywood, and Cameron, I thought it was supposed 00:38:52.160 --> 00:38:54.000 to be like hardy board. 00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:57.760 I could have missed it, but that's what I thought I saw Evan nodding like that. 00:38:57.760 --> 00:39:02.080 Yeah, it said wood on the list was an acceptable material, and I don't know if that's supposed 00:39:02.080 --> 00:39:05.600 to encompass plywood as well. 00:39:05.600 --> 00:39:07.040 Yeah. 00:39:07.040 --> 00:39:12.280 So yes, it does imply that plywood is acceptable. 00:39:12.280 --> 00:39:13.280 Okay. 00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:17.440 Because it said accents and trim, and I took that as an accent, sorry. 00:39:17.440 --> 00:39:22.680 So yeah, this is accents and trim, but it includes the primary materials that listed 00:39:22.680 --> 00:39:23.680 up. 00:39:23.680 --> 00:39:24.680 Okay, I see. 00:39:24.680 --> 00:39:25.680 Okay, thank you. 00:39:25.680 --> 00:39:26.680 You're welcome. 00:39:26.680 --> 00:39:29.760 I move approval. 00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:30.760 Seconds. 00:39:30.760 --> 00:39:38.440 Okay, we have a motion and a second, and we'll enter into discussions. 00:39:38.440 --> 00:39:39.720 I'll open the floor. 00:39:39.720 --> 00:39:49.840 I can imagine it was pretty hard to keep that looking nice, great idea, but- 00:39:49.840 --> 00:39:51.120 Dead flowers. 00:39:51.120 --> 00:39:55.120 Yeah, I think this is a big improvement. 00:39:55.120 --> 00:40:00.760 An improvement, okay, hearing no other discussion, we'll call the vote, and we'll start with 00:40:00.760 --> 00:40:02.480 Ms. Berry? 00:40:02.480 --> 00:40:03.880 Yay. 00:40:03.880 --> 00:40:05.480 Melody? 00:40:05.480 --> 00:40:06.800 Yay. 00:40:06.800 --> 00:40:08.200 Evan? 00:40:08.200 --> 00:40:09.360 Yay. 00:40:09.360 --> 00:40:10.760 Lenny? 00:40:10.760 --> 00:40:11.920 Yes. 00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:13.200 Mary? 00:40:13.200 --> 00:40:14.360 Yes. 00:40:14.360 --> 00:40:19.400 And Roy likewise is yes. 00:40:19.400 --> 00:40:25.400 COA 21-0004 is approved unanimously. 00:40:25.400 --> 00:40:38.360 Okay, next up on our agenda is COA 21-0005, to hold a public meeting and consider an application 00:40:38.360 --> 00:40:43.520 for certificate of appropriateness in accordance with section 2.9.2 of the Denton Development 00:40:43.520 --> 00:40:52.000 Code to construct a new house and relocate and reduce an existing two-story garage apartment 00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:57.880 to one-story located at 2230 West Oak Street within the West Oak Historic District. 00:40:57.880 --> 00:41:03.480 The site is located on the northeast corner of West Oak Street and Thomas Street. 00:41:03.480 --> 00:41:09.320 Okay, I'll turn it over to Cameron with this. 00:41:09.320 --> 00:41:26.720 Okay, so this COA 21-005, as our Chair stated, is at 2230 West Oak Street for new construction. 00:41:26.720 --> 00:41:31.040 So this is the West Oak Area Historic District. 00:41:31.040 --> 00:41:35.400 It is located on the northeast corner of Thomas and West Oak Streets, and the applicant and 00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:40.840 owners are Joe Paul and Sue Gallo, who should be on the call if you have questions after 00:41:40.840 --> 00:41:43.680 this presentation. 00:41:43.680 --> 00:41:46.040 So this is the existing site. 00:41:46.040 --> 00:41:53.640 It had amended final plat approval back in January 26, 2021, to combine both lots. 00:41:53.640 --> 00:41:59.360 The request is to relocate and reduce in stories the existing two-story garage apartment on-site, 00:41:59.360 --> 00:42:05.800 which is highlighted in red, as well as construct a new one-story house. 00:42:05.800 --> 00:42:11.040 The existing two-story garage apartment, which has two bedrooms and one bath upstairs and 00:42:11.040 --> 00:42:14.040 one bath, a studio and garage downstairs. 00:42:14.040 --> 00:42:19.960 The structure is proposed to be moved by Hitchcock House Movers and reduced to one-story, and 00:42:19.960 --> 00:42:26.340 it is proposed to become the accessory dwelling unit to the main structure. 00:42:26.340 --> 00:42:29.640 This is planned to have an engineered foundation. 00:42:29.640 --> 00:42:33.140 The structure is to remain stucco. 00:42:33.140 --> 00:42:38.800 It will not be visible from Thomas Street or West Oak Street, according to the applicant, 00:42:38.800 --> 00:42:43.160 and the applicant has stated that if cracks do form due to the move, it will be repaired 00:42:43.160 --> 00:42:50.920 to meet all requirements of DDC Section 4.9.6C. 00:42:50.920 --> 00:42:57.680 In regards to the one-story home, it will be 1,602 square feet. 00:42:57.680 --> 00:43:02.880 It will consist of three bedrooms, two bathrooms, and one side entry two-car garage from Thomas 00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:04.340 Street. 00:43:04.340 --> 00:43:09.200 The total square footage will be approximately 2,500 square feet under roof with the garage 00:43:09.200 --> 00:43:12.360 and porches. 00:43:12.360 --> 00:43:16.960 The style is a carpenter bungalow style house. 00:43:16.960 --> 00:43:23.960 The exterior materials to be used are siding would be cement plank and stone tile. 00:43:23.960 --> 00:43:28.840 The window would be multi-light double-hung windows, and the roof would be composition 00:43:28.840 --> 00:43:31.440 shingles. 00:43:31.440 --> 00:43:36.920 These are pictures of the stone tiling that would be used, which is also located here 00:43:36.920 --> 00:43:40.920 on the front facade, as you can see here. 00:43:40.920 --> 00:43:46.800 The cement plank, and then these are the color of siding proposed. 00:43:46.800 --> 00:43:50.800 The dormer and eaves would be this accent color right here. 00:43:50.800 --> 00:43:55.560 The trim color would be this white, and then this would be the side color. 00:43:55.560 --> 00:44:02.760 And then these are the windows examples that are proposed for the residents themselves. 00:44:02.760 --> 00:44:09.480 So, the staff recommends approval of the proposed COA request. 00:44:09.480 --> 00:44:15.960 And then, I have also brought the example of the visual, if I'm going to stop sharing 00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:22.400 real quick, just because it's better lighting of the stone tiling itself that's recommended 00:44:22.400 --> 00:44:27.000 on sections of the base of the front facade. 00:44:27.000 --> 00:44:32.080 Okay, questions for staff? 00:44:32.080 --> 00:44:39.960 This owner is not the owner that we saw short recently when for the demolition of a cute 00:44:39.960 --> 00:44:45.200 old '20s kind of building, it's a different owner. 00:44:45.200 --> 00:44:48.240 He wasn't flipping that, I see. 00:44:48.240 --> 00:44:49.240 Okay. 00:44:49.240 --> 00:44:51.640 So, this is purchased recently. 00:44:51.640 --> 00:44:56.240 It's not a Denton cab, is what I'm asking. 00:44:56.240 --> 00:45:00.640 Was the resident purchased recently, the property you mean? 00:45:00.640 --> 00:45:01.640 Yes. 00:45:01.640 --> 00:45:03.520 Does it show on Denton cab? 00:45:03.520 --> 00:45:07.800 I am not sure of when it was purchased. 00:45:07.800 --> 00:45:17.640 The two lots were combined in January of 2021, so I'm assuming sometime after 2021, it was 00:45:17.640 --> 00:45:19.680 purchased by the property owner. 00:45:19.680 --> 00:45:25.720 Cameron, actually the property owner purchased it about over a year ago, and he was the one 00:45:25.720 --> 00:45:29.120 that applied for the many final plat. 00:45:29.120 --> 00:45:34.640 So just don't know why it isn't shown up in BCAT yet, but this owner just purchased it 00:45:34.640 --> 00:45:39.080 within a year, year and a half. 00:45:39.080 --> 00:45:40.080 Could I see it again? 00:45:40.080 --> 00:45:41.080 I like pictures. 00:45:41.080 --> 00:45:42.080 Of course. 00:45:42.080 --> 00:45:43.080 Hold on. 00:45:43.080 --> 00:45:44.080 Oops. 00:45:44.080 --> 00:45:45.080 Okay. 00:45:45.080 --> 00:45:56.800 So, this is the proposed. 00:45:56.800 --> 00:46:02.800 And then we do have Angela Adams from the city, if anyone has questions about moving 00:46:02.800 --> 00:46:07.980 the current existing building onsite to the rear of the property, she is here to answer 00:46:07.980 --> 00:46:10.640 any questions you may have regarding that relocation. 00:46:10.640 --> 00:46:11.640 Okay. 00:46:11.640 --> 00:46:12.640 Any questions? 00:46:12.640 --> 00:46:13.640 Yes. 00:46:13.640 --> 00:46:14.640 Go ahead. 00:46:14.640 --> 00:46:21.480 I was just trying to see where that part is moved over. 00:46:21.480 --> 00:46:24.000 Where is it going to be? 00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:32.000 The current garage or a garage apartment will be moved to this location in the upper left 00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:36.520 hand corner of the property along Thomas street. 00:46:36.520 --> 00:46:41.080 Okay, okay. 00:46:41.080 --> 00:46:45.720 So it's supposedly not, this is not visible from Thomas or Oak, it's just, I find it 00:46:45.720 --> 00:46:47.640 hard to believe it's not visible from Thomas street. 00:46:47.640 --> 00:46:51.400 I can see maybe not from Oak, but how is it not visible from Thomas? 00:46:51.400 --> 00:46:58.560 They plan on putting landscaping and a fence in place to hide the accessory drilling unit. 00:46:58.560 --> 00:47:01.920 But there's a driveway there. 00:47:01.920 --> 00:47:02.920 I don't understand. 00:47:02.920 --> 00:47:06.340 You can't hide the driveway or did I just miss that? 00:47:06.340 --> 00:47:08.160 That driveway will be removed. 00:47:08.160 --> 00:47:09.160 That's the existing driveway. 00:47:09.160 --> 00:47:10.160 No, no, no. 00:47:10.160 --> 00:47:11.320 I'm talking about the new driveway. 00:47:11.320 --> 00:47:14.320 When they move it, there's still a driveway I see on the picture. 00:47:14.320 --> 00:47:17.800 It seems like there would be a driveway. 00:47:17.800 --> 00:47:22.000 I don't think that's making sense to me here. 00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:36.360 This lane, nobody can see what I'm pointing at, but I mean, what is that space? 00:47:36.360 --> 00:47:37.360 It doesn't give. 00:47:37.360 --> 00:47:42.080 It looks like an alley is what I think Lenny sees, kind of what I see. 00:47:42.080 --> 00:47:46.120 It's the gap between the two lots is that what I'm seeing I'm confused. 00:47:46.120 --> 00:47:49.200 It's not between the two lots, I don't think. 00:47:49.200 --> 00:47:52.280 Between the accessory dwelling and the house, there's like a gap, which I can't tell how 00:47:52.280 --> 00:47:53.280 big it is. 00:47:53.280 --> 00:47:56.040 It's not quite clear to me. 00:47:56.040 --> 00:48:12.680 And is there a fence on the Oak Street side of that accessory facility? 00:48:12.680 --> 00:48:19.160 On the Oak Street side, in terms of, so there is no fence along West Oak Street currently, 00:48:19.160 --> 00:48:20.640 and there's not proposed to be a fence? 00:48:20.640 --> 00:48:22.960 No, I don't mean along West Oak Street. 00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:31.600 I mean along that alley or whatever that is, it's no, on the other side, or this is Thomas 00:48:31.600 --> 00:48:32.600 Street. 00:48:32.600 --> 00:48:33.600 Yes. 00:48:33.600 --> 00:48:40.760 And the one that's parallel, this property that's parallel to Thomas, there's an alley 00:48:40.760 --> 00:48:43.720 or something in here that's parallel to Thomas? 00:48:43.720 --> 00:48:46.480 No, no, no. 00:48:46.480 --> 00:48:50.320 I was thinking there was one that was parallel to Oak running into Thomas, because there's 00:48:50.320 --> 00:48:51.680 just this gap. 00:48:51.680 --> 00:48:52.680 That's what I mean. 00:48:52.680 --> 00:48:56.800 I'm saying parallel to Thomas, parallel to Oak, you're right, right. 00:48:56.800 --> 00:49:00.880 Yes, it's parallel to Oak, and it's running into Thomas. 00:49:00.880 --> 00:49:02.360 What is that? 00:49:02.360 --> 00:49:03.360 This section right here? 00:49:03.360 --> 00:49:04.360 Move back a little bit. 00:49:04.360 --> 00:49:05.360 Yeah, to the right. 00:49:05.360 --> 00:49:06.360 Keep going to the right. 00:49:06.360 --> 00:49:07.360 Right here? 00:49:07.360 --> 00:49:08.360 Yeah. 00:49:08.360 --> 00:49:09.360 That is 20 feet from the property line. 00:49:09.360 --> 00:49:10.360 And keep going. 00:49:10.360 --> 00:49:11.360 But what is that? 00:49:11.360 --> 00:49:12.360 That's... 00:49:12.360 --> 00:49:13.360 Yeah, there's the whole thing. 00:49:13.360 --> 00:49:15.760 If I can interject, that is just showing dimensions. 00:49:15.760 --> 00:49:16.760 It's not an alley. 00:49:16.760 --> 00:49:21.480 That is just showing the dimensions, and you can see how they're noted by the feet that 00:49:21.480 --> 00:49:22.480 they're showing. 00:49:22.480 --> 00:49:23.480 Okay. 00:49:23.480 --> 00:49:24.480 By each of those lines. 00:49:24.480 --> 00:49:28.480 So where is this fence going to be? 00:49:28.480 --> 00:49:29.480 We are... 00:49:29.480 --> 00:49:33.960 The fence is not required by COA, but the fence would be along the property line. 00:49:33.960 --> 00:49:38.320 Well, if they're saying it's not going to be seen from Thomas Street. 00:49:38.320 --> 00:49:45.440 Well, I did inform them that if they did not end up putting a fence, they would have to 00:49:45.440 --> 00:49:51.880 come back to COA, so that it can meet the current facade of the new one-story home that 00:49:51.880 --> 00:49:52.880 is proposed. 00:49:52.880 --> 00:49:54.960 Can I ask a question though, Cameron? 00:49:54.960 --> 00:49:58.280 Can you build a fence that close to an accessory dwelling? 00:49:58.280 --> 00:50:02.880 Along the property line, it'll be 20 feet setback, so it will be along this line. 00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:03.880 Right on the street? 00:50:03.880 --> 00:50:04.880 Where's the... 00:50:04.880 --> 00:50:05.880 The street. 00:50:05.880 --> 00:50:10.200 Because you have to have a certain distance from the street in, is what I think, if there's 00:50:10.200 --> 00:50:11.200 a minimum... 00:50:11.200 --> 00:50:16.560 My other question relates to materials, because the house is not stucco, but this building 00:50:16.560 --> 00:50:19.520 which they claim can't be seen is. 00:50:19.520 --> 00:50:26.440 And I can't imagine that you won't see some of it, unless they're going to cover... 00:50:26.440 --> 00:50:29.880 I mean, without a fence plan, you're going to see the stucco, and you're going to see 00:50:29.880 --> 00:50:35.240 what they propose, kind of that black tile-ish stuff, and it just doesn't seem to go together. 00:50:35.240 --> 00:50:37.320 They look very odd. 00:50:37.320 --> 00:50:43.800 If I had the full look in at this, if you kind of stood on the corner of Oak and Thomas 00:50:43.800 --> 00:50:48.200 and looked back, you should be able to see links elsewhere in dwelling, unless the fence 00:50:48.200 --> 00:50:53.840 is prescribed carefully, and I don't see that happening right now, and the two materials 00:50:53.840 --> 00:50:56.200 don't match, or don't seem... 00:50:56.200 --> 00:50:57.200 Correct. 00:50:57.200 --> 00:50:58.200 Correct. 00:50:58.200 --> 00:51:03.040 They don't match currently, but I informed them that if we were able to end up seeing 00:51:03.040 --> 00:51:07.400 the accessory dwelling unit, they would have to come back to COA, and they would have to 00:51:07.400 --> 00:51:15.040 go in front of HLC again to discuss that accessory dwelling unit before it was occupied. 00:51:15.040 --> 00:51:16.040 I guess... 00:51:16.040 --> 00:51:21.160 But in their letter said that as soon as the other structure started up or something, they 00:51:21.160 --> 00:51:25.560 could occupy the back building. 00:51:25.560 --> 00:51:28.440 And there is no enforcement, let's just put it this way. 00:51:28.440 --> 00:51:32.480 So unless we actually say, "Now, you don't get COA until you tell us exactly what you're 00:51:32.480 --> 00:51:40.120 going to do," nobody's going to ever bother looking twice, and that's a problem with HLC. 00:51:40.120 --> 00:51:44.720 So I think if we don't have them come back and tell us, and Ron, and you can approve 00:51:44.720 --> 00:51:49.720 it, but unless it's specifically stated, I've gotten a little tough about this because I've 00:51:49.720 --> 00:51:55.600 lived here long enough, and I'm one of the longest serving members besides Roy. 00:51:55.600 --> 00:51:58.120 And in fact, Roy, you and I saw this before it was torn down, right? 00:51:58.120 --> 00:52:02.800 Did we take the tour with Roman? 00:52:02.800 --> 00:52:03.800 Yes. 00:52:03.800 --> 00:52:04.800 Yeah, exactly. 00:52:04.800 --> 00:52:07.840 And so I think that we should prescribe where the fence should cover in advance so we don't 00:52:07.840 --> 00:52:10.360 have to have this discussion coming back. 00:52:10.360 --> 00:52:11.360 Okay. 00:52:11.360 --> 00:52:17.120 Well, what I'm hearing, it just seems to me like we need more information than we have. 00:52:17.120 --> 00:52:20.380 Maybe we're okay with it, maybe we're not, but we can't tell. 00:52:20.380 --> 00:52:23.040 Is that sort of where everybody is at? 00:52:23.040 --> 00:52:24.040 Yeah. 00:52:24.040 --> 00:52:28.700 And I'm also asking for what a carpenter, I've never heard of a carpenter bungalow, 00:52:28.700 --> 00:52:36.600 and I don't know that that tile is characteristic of a carpenter bungalow, Melody, are you here? 00:52:36.600 --> 00:52:37.600 Yes. 00:52:37.600 --> 00:52:38.600 Can you tell me about that? 00:52:38.600 --> 00:52:46.720 I've never heard of that tile on the front of a bungalow. 00:52:46.720 --> 00:52:50.720 I've heard on buildings like, you know, granite buildings and grand old bank buildings and 00:52:50.720 --> 00:52:53.400 stuff, but I've never seen it on a house. 00:52:53.400 --> 00:52:59.080 And is this house representative of the historic district, does it match the style of something 00:52:59.080 --> 00:53:04.560 that would be expected to see in the historic district? 00:53:04.560 --> 00:53:10.240 Okay, so Melody, you're muted, I think. 00:53:10.240 --> 00:53:13.400 There we go. 00:53:13.400 --> 00:53:14.400 Hello. 00:53:14.400 --> 00:53:15.400 Got you. 00:53:15.400 --> 00:53:17.240 Okay, my dog just went off. 00:53:17.240 --> 00:53:20.360 So that's why I did that. 00:53:20.360 --> 00:53:22.480 Oh, okay. 00:53:22.480 --> 00:53:31.520 It is representative of a bungalow style house. 00:53:31.520 --> 00:53:38.800 Typically that would not be a tile, because at the time that that style of house was popular, 00:53:38.800 --> 00:53:46.080 it would not have been available, but it might have been a brick substance rather than a 00:53:46.080 --> 00:53:47.440 tile. 00:53:47.440 --> 00:53:51.560 That would have been the accent piece. 00:53:51.560 --> 00:53:57.320 So this is a modified version of a traditional style. 00:53:57.320 --> 00:54:03.080 I mean, they're doing their due diligence in trying to build something that will blend 00:54:03.080 --> 00:54:12.560 in but still meet the style that they want to have. 00:54:12.560 --> 00:54:18.040 And that's the way it appears to me. 00:54:18.040 --> 00:54:29.120 And this the tile that they have chosen, rather than putting brick, it's just a modernization 00:54:29.120 --> 00:54:33.560 of an old, older home style. 00:54:33.560 --> 00:54:38.920 And I just wanted to let you all know that I believe Joe, Paul Gallo should be on the 00:54:38.920 --> 00:54:40.360 call now. 00:54:40.360 --> 00:54:46.800 So if you have any specific questions for him, you can direct some of the questions 00:54:46.800 --> 00:54:48.840 for him if you have specific ones. 00:54:48.840 --> 00:54:51.600 Okay, this should be a good time for that. 00:54:51.600 --> 00:54:54.500 Joe, are you on the call? 00:54:54.500 --> 00:54:56.760 Were we able to get him on the call? 00:54:56.760 --> 00:54:57.760 Okay. 00:54:57.760 --> 00:55:02.920 Cameron, this is Stuart with the city. 00:55:02.920 --> 00:55:09.240 I believe he just called our public line and I gave him the Zoom call-in information. 00:55:09.240 --> 00:55:11.440 And so he should be calling in shortly. 00:55:11.440 --> 00:55:12.440 Okay. 00:55:12.440 --> 00:55:13.440 Thank you. 00:55:13.440 --> 00:55:15.280 Sorry for that delay there. 00:55:15.280 --> 00:55:22.880 Okay, so at this point, are there any other questions for staff? 00:55:22.880 --> 00:55:23.880 Hearing none. 00:55:23.880 --> 00:55:27.960 Well, we have four options here, and any of these four require a motion. 00:55:27.960 --> 00:55:35.080 We can approve as submitted, approve subject to conditions, deny or continue the item. 00:55:35.080 --> 00:55:41.200 I believe he just called our public line and I gave him the Zoom call-in information. 00:55:41.200 --> 00:55:44.120 I believe that might be him on the line now. 00:55:44.120 --> 00:55:45.720 Joe, is that you? 00:55:45.720 --> 00:55:51.480 And if it is, if you could please turn down the meeting. 00:55:51.480 --> 00:56:02.640 Okay, Joe, are you here? 00:56:02.640 --> 00:56:07.560 Yes, sir, I'm here. 00:56:07.560 --> 00:56:13.920 Okay, so we had a couple of questions for you if you have just a minute. 00:56:13.920 --> 00:56:19.840 Why don't I just throw the floor open and you know, Melanie, I think you had questions. 00:56:19.840 --> 00:56:22.040 I think Mary had a couple of questions. 00:56:22.040 --> 00:56:26.880 Anybody else just go ahead. 00:56:26.880 --> 00:56:35.200 Well one question was, we were questioning how it would be, how the auxiliary structure 00:56:35.200 --> 00:56:47.360 would be hidden from Thomas Street if there was no barrier on the south side. 00:56:47.360 --> 00:56:51.520 Not the south side of the property, but the south side of that building. 00:56:51.520 --> 00:56:59.120 Carmen, can you pop up the site plan? 00:56:59.120 --> 00:57:05.560 Carmen, did you hear? 00:57:05.560 --> 00:57:06.560 Can y'all hear me? 00:57:06.560 --> 00:57:07.560 Yes, we can hear. 00:57:07.560 --> 00:57:08.560 Hold on a second. 00:57:08.560 --> 00:57:11.200 I'm bringing that up now. 00:57:11.200 --> 00:57:19.480 Here we go, this is the site plans. 00:57:19.480 --> 00:57:21.760 Joe Paul, are you able to see it? 00:57:21.760 --> 00:57:23.400 No, I don't. 00:57:23.400 --> 00:57:39.080 Just a reminder, the applicant is about 15 seconds behind from viewing, 10 to 15 seconds. 00:57:39.080 --> 00:57:40.080 Okay. 00:57:40.080 --> 00:57:42.360 Do you see it now? 00:57:42.360 --> 00:57:43.360 No. 00:57:43.360 --> 00:57:44.360 Okay. 00:57:44.360 --> 00:57:46.880 Yeah, if you'll go to the site plan. 00:57:46.880 --> 00:57:50.000 I am currently on the site plan. 00:57:50.000 --> 00:57:59.080 Okay, to clarify the fence issue and the auxiliary dwelling, there is at this point right now 00:57:59.080 --> 00:58:06.560 an older fence that was apparently a brick wall that is there, which is off the property 00:58:06.560 --> 00:58:13.440 line and the house would be located 20 feet off the Thomas line and 10 feet off the back 00:58:13.440 --> 00:58:14.440 line. 00:58:14.440 --> 00:58:19.480 That fence will cover all the way down to this auxiliary driveway here. 00:58:19.480 --> 00:58:21.260 There's two entries in the driveway. 00:58:21.260 --> 00:58:24.200 It's a circle driveway. 00:58:24.200 --> 00:58:33.720 There'll be also a fence that will come across basically I would say this around the 24 area 00:58:33.720 --> 00:58:40.720 or the 20 area that will box in this home and the individual will be able to park where 00:58:40.720 --> 00:58:48.200 the 24 is in the offset of the property line using the existing driveway there. 00:58:48.200 --> 00:58:54.040 So there'll be a gate there and the home will be totally enclosed by a fence. 00:58:54.040 --> 00:59:00.160 I guess I'm having real trouble visualizing parking and parking in this area is very difficult, 00:59:00.160 --> 00:59:05.980 but if you were going to have a home and an accessory dwelling, what is the rule for how 00:59:05.980 --> 00:59:10.600 many parking spaces you must require for dwellings? 00:59:10.600 --> 00:59:15.640 Four parking spaces must be required in addition to the garage itself. 00:59:15.640 --> 00:59:18.560 I can't see that here, that's why I'm asking. 00:59:18.560 --> 00:59:26.360 It's not clear where this is going to happen and how that blocks out a Stucco house that's 00:59:26.360 --> 00:59:27.360 not the same. 00:59:27.360 --> 00:59:32.960 A Stucco building is not the same as the house materials. 00:59:32.960 --> 00:59:33.960 Explain that please. 00:59:33.960 --> 00:59:34.960 Yes, go ahead. 00:59:34.960 --> 00:59:35.960 I'd like a picture. 00:59:35.960 --> 00:59:36.960 I'd love a picture. 00:59:36.960 --> 00:59:37.960 Okay. 00:59:37.960 --> 00:59:45.480 On the 20 foot marker and the 27 foot marker, there will be a fence there and a fence on 00:59:45.480 --> 00:59:53.040 the back of the red line facing on the east side, the west side, and the north side will 00:59:53.040 --> 00:59:54.040 have a fence. 00:59:54.040 --> 01:00:00.580 Actually, it'll be a fence on north, south, east, and west with a gate. 01:00:00.580 --> 01:00:09.280 And if you'll look, Carmen, if you'll go up to the north entry on the driveway, there's 01:00:09.280 --> 01:00:17.220 probably, let me give you the dimensions, there's roughly 30 feet right in the area 01:00:17.220 --> 01:00:24.080 between 20 and 24 on a marker that can park two cars easily. 01:00:24.080 --> 01:00:29.840 So they'll be able to park in front of the fence, go into the gate, and still have a 01:00:29.840 --> 01:00:36.160 20 foot roughly or 18 foot front yard on there protected by a fence. 01:00:36.160 --> 01:00:41.720 Okay, and then they'll pull through the curb entrance for the loop driveway? 01:00:41.720 --> 01:00:42.720 Yes, sir. 01:00:42.720 --> 01:00:48.240 That's correct and be facing north to a gate. 01:00:48.240 --> 01:00:50.520 Okay, thank you. 01:00:50.520 --> 01:00:56.360 Do you have other questions? 01:00:56.360 --> 01:01:00.600 And what was the material, again, Cameron, could you show us of the house itself? 01:01:00.600 --> 01:01:01.600 Yes. 01:01:01.600 --> 01:01:08.880 So, we would have a cement plank siding with the stone tiling at the base. 01:01:08.880 --> 01:01:15.080 And then these would be the colors chosen for the dormer eaves trim and siding color. 01:01:15.080 --> 01:01:20.000 And then these would be the window examples for the windows to be used on the exterior. 01:01:20.000 --> 01:01:24.520 What about those windows, again, what would the color, where the white is on those windows 01:01:24.520 --> 01:01:27.480 would be black or dark gray or something? 01:01:27.480 --> 01:01:28.480 I also have colors. 01:01:28.480 --> 01:01:30.840 I'm having a hard time visualizing them, sorry. 01:01:30.840 --> 01:01:31.840 I have colors. 01:01:31.840 --> 01:01:32.840 I'm a real visual person. 01:01:32.840 --> 01:01:33.840 No worries. 01:01:33.840 --> 01:01:36.280 I have colors for those as well. 01:01:36.280 --> 01:01:37.280 Can you see my screen? 01:01:37.280 --> 01:01:38.720 Yes, I see your screen. 01:01:38.720 --> 01:01:41.920 Okay, so this is the dormer and eaves color. 01:01:41.920 --> 01:01:45.920 Hopefully that's a little bit brighter than what's shown on the screen. 01:01:45.920 --> 01:01:47.720 And then this is the trim color. 01:01:47.720 --> 01:01:50.520 Oh yeah, much brighter. 01:01:50.520 --> 01:01:53.920 And then our siding color is this lighter gray. 01:01:53.920 --> 01:01:54.920 Okay. 01:01:54.920 --> 01:01:55.920 Which one? 01:01:55.920 --> 01:01:56.920 The third one? 01:01:56.920 --> 01:01:57.920 Yeah. 01:01:57.920 --> 01:02:15.480 Okay, any other questions for our owner or for staff? 01:02:15.480 --> 01:02:16.480 Hearing none. 01:02:16.480 --> 01:02:21.320 Okay, so where we're at is we have four options. 01:02:21.320 --> 01:02:26.320 We can approve as submitted, approve subject to conditions, deny or continue. 01:02:26.320 --> 01:02:31.000 Any of those requires a motion and a second. 01:02:31.000 --> 01:02:32.460 So do we have a motion? 01:02:32.460 --> 01:02:34.460 I have a motion. 01:02:34.460 --> 01:02:39.280 I'd like to, well, I'd like to approve with conditions. 01:02:39.280 --> 01:02:43.320 Conditions being that the site plan of all of the hiding and hiding the house, stucco 01:02:43.320 --> 01:02:47.040 house is actually clearly legible on the site plan. 01:02:47.040 --> 01:02:49.560 I can't follow waving the hands orally. 01:02:49.560 --> 01:02:50.560 It doesn't help. 01:02:50.560 --> 01:02:56.400 And that all of the four necessary vehicle places are specifically pointed out so that 01:02:56.400 --> 01:03:03.360 they don't block potential access by the sidewalk that might appear on city right of way. 01:03:03.360 --> 01:03:06.080 Just so that that's actually clear. 01:03:06.080 --> 01:03:12.080 And given that, then I think they would have to have those conditions now. 01:03:12.080 --> 01:03:13.080 Okay. 01:03:13.080 --> 01:03:18.680 So Mary's motion is to approve with conditions and her conditions are that the site plan 01:03:18.680 --> 01:03:23.080 can be modified to show where the fence and parking would be. 01:03:23.080 --> 01:03:24.080 And is that a fair. 01:03:24.080 --> 01:03:25.080 Yes. 01:03:25.080 --> 01:03:30.840 I bet you can't see the stucco house since the materials were so different from any, 01:03:30.840 --> 01:03:34.000 any angle that is there. 01:03:34.000 --> 01:03:35.000 Okay. 01:03:35.000 --> 01:03:36.940 I think we understand the conditions. 01:03:36.940 --> 01:03:39.840 So to go forward, the motion would need a second. 01:03:39.840 --> 01:03:40.840 Second. 01:03:40.840 --> 01:03:41.840 Okay. 01:03:41.840 --> 01:03:43.300 We have a motion and a second from Lenny. 01:03:43.300 --> 01:03:44.680 Now we move to discussions. 01:03:44.680 --> 01:03:49.280 I'll open the floor. 01:03:49.280 --> 01:03:55.080 Evan, we covered it pretty well already. 01:03:55.080 --> 01:03:56.080 Okay. 01:03:56.080 --> 01:03:57.080 All right. 01:03:57.080 --> 01:03:58.080 That's fine with me. 01:03:58.080 --> 01:03:59.080 Okay. 01:03:59.080 --> 01:04:00.080 So we've had a motion and a second. 01:04:00.080 --> 01:04:02.200 The motion is to approve with conditions. 01:04:02.200 --> 01:04:11.160 The conditions are that the site plan would be updated to reflect the fits and the visual 01:04:11.160 --> 01:04:16.120 to assure ourselves that it will not be visible from Oak or Thomas street. 01:04:16.120 --> 01:04:17.120 We'll start at. 01:04:17.120 --> 01:04:18.120 Wait. 01:04:18.120 --> 01:04:22.080 And also that the parking is, oh, that the parking is delineated on the site. 01:04:22.080 --> 01:04:27.280 So that it does not take over part of the city right of way so that eventually a sidewalk 01:04:27.280 --> 01:04:30.080 got put in, the parking is not on the sidewalk. 01:04:30.080 --> 01:04:31.080 Okay. 01:04:31.080 --> 01:04:35.520 Are there any questions of staff about these conditions? 01:04:35.520 --> 01:04:36.520 Seeing no. 01:04:36.520 --> 01:04:37.520 None. 01:04:37.520 --> 01:04:38.520 We'll start to vote. 01:04:38.520 --> 01:04:39.520 Let's go with Mary. 01:04:39.520 --> 01:04:41.520 Mary, do you have a suggestion? 01:04:41.520 --> 01:04:42.520 Yes. 01:04:42.520 --> 01:04:43.520 Okay. 01:04:43.520 --> 01:04:45.280 I'm a little confused of how you want to designate. 01:04:45.280 --> 01:04:51.880 Do you just want the fence dimensions and the parking spaces placed onto the site plan? 01:04:51.880 --> 01:04:52.880 Is that what you're asking? 01:04:52.880 --> 01:04:53.880 No, we can't see. 01:04:53.880 --> 01:04:59.840 I mean, you've described it, but you know, pictures worth a thousand words. 01:04:59.840 --> 01:05:04.240 So what would happen is you would need to probably change your site plan to include 01:05:04.240 --> 01:05:10.680 those and satisfy the staff that our conditions have been met and then you would be approved 01:05:10.680 --> 01:05:14.160 to move on to your next permit. 01:05:14.160 --> 01:05:15.160 It's basically all we want. 01:05:15.160 --> 01:05:18.680 Right, but I guess she's asking for a visual. 01:05:18.680 --> 01:05:24.960 I don't understand how we can show a visual with no home being there. 01:05:24.960 --> 01:05:33.680 All we want is to be sure that whatever, that parking is off street and that it does not 01:05:33.680 --> 01:05:41.720 impinge upon a sidewalk that might be built in the future along that street. 01:05:41.720 --> 01:05:49.640 We need to see, it needs to show where exactly the parking is and you just have to pardon 01:05:49.640 --> 01:05:54.480 that we can't visualize very well when you tell us. 01:05:54.480 --> 01:05:56.880 And where the fence is actually going to go. 01:05:56.880 --> 01:06:00.920 Telling me where the fence is, is not the same as drawing the lines. 01:06:00.920 --> 01:06:01.920 Okay. 01:06:01.920 --> 01:06:05.880 So I guess that's all I'm asking is you just want to show a line where the fencing will 01:06:05.880 --> 01:06:06.880 go. 01:06:06.880 --> 01:06:07.880 Right. 01:06:07.880 --> 01:06:08.880 Yes. 01:06:08.880 --> 01:06:13.280 And then you would need to, but you don't come back to us. 01:06:13.280 --> 01:06:20.200 You would work with Cameron and Ron and the staff to make sure that they, because I believe 01:06:20.200 --> 01:06:23.600 they understand what our concerns are and then you move along. 01:06:23.600 --> 01:06:26.360 So okay, I understand fully. 01:06:26.360 --> 01:06:28.960 All right, Mary, your vote. 01:06:28.960 --> 01:06:32.320 Yes, Lenny. 01:06:32.320 --> 01:06:33.320 Yes. 01:06:33.320 --> 01:06:34.320 Aye. 01:06:34.320 --> 01:06:35.320 Evan. 01:06:35.320 --> 01:06:36.320 Yeah. 01:06:36.320 --> 01:06:37.320 Melody. 01:06:37.320 --> 01:06:38.320 Aye. 01:06:38.320 --> 01:06:39.320 Cassandra. 01:06:39.320 --> 01:06:40.320 Yay. 01:06:40.320 --> 01:06:41.320 Yay. 01:06:41.320 --> 01:06:43.520 Roy is yay. 01:06:43.520 --> 01:06:46.920 So this motion passes unanimously. 01:06:46.920 --> 01:06:52.600 It is approved subject to the conditions that the parking be clarified and that the fence 01:06:52.600 --> 01:06:58.640 be clarified and staff will work with our owner to make sure that that meets our concerns. 01:06:58.640 --> 01:07:08.920 Next up on our agenda is COA 21-0005 to hold a public meeting and consider an application 01:07:08.920 --> 01:07:14.200 for a certificate of appropriateness in accordance with section 2.9.2 of the Denton Development 01:07:14.200 --> 01:07:26.280 Code to construct, oh, pardon me, sorry, we did that one, HL 21-0001 to hold a public meeting 01:07:26.280 --> 01:07:32.480 and determine whether the presented expenses resulted in a permanent improvement or restoration 01:07:32.480 --> 01:07:38.720 of a local historic landmark property located at 1003 West Oak Street within the West Oak 01:07:38.720 --> 01:07:41.040 Historic District. 01:07:41.040 --> 01:07:46.200 This site is located on the south side of West Oak Street, mid-block between North Welch 01:07:46.200 --> 01:07:47.720 and Denton Street. 01:07:47.720 --> 01:07:53.480 Okay, Cameron, I'll turn it over. 01:07:53.480 --> 01:08:02.800 So, as the Chair stated, our next agenda item is 1003 West Oak Street. 01:08:02.800 --> 01:08:05.960 It's for historic tax exemption. 01:08:05.960 --> 01:08:09.920 So it is in the Oak Hickory Historic District. 01:08:09.920 --> 01:08:14.760 It is on the south side of West Oak Street, mid-block between North Welch and Denton Streets. 01:08:14.760 --> 01:08:18.180 The owners are Salty and Joanne Rochelle. 01:08:18.180 --> 01:08:23.800 It is a local historic landmark, as well as a THC-recorded historic Texas landmark, other 01:08:23.800 --> 01:08:28.040 ones known as James Newton and Ava Taber Razor House. 01:08:28.040 --> 01:08:31.240 It was built circa 1909. 01:08:31.240 --> 01:08:38.400 They request an application for historic landmark tax exemption under section 10-128. 01:08:38.400 --> 01:08:43.800 It is for HVAC system updates and a new rear porch, as you can see on the slide. 01:08:43.800 --> 01:08:50.200 The total cost came out to $28,659.48. 01:08:50.200 --> 01:08:59.720 So the recommendation, if you look at section 10-128D, it is for additional 10-year exemption 01:08:59.720 --> 01:09:05.480 for the property owner to demonstrate to city qualifying expenses of $10,000 or more, beyond 01:09:05.480 --> 01:09:09.220 those demonstrated for the initial or subsequent exemption. 01:09:09.220 --> 01:09:17.680 So on April 13, 2010, they were approved for a new roof and minor wood repairs and repainting. 01:09:17.680 --> 01:09:20.960 So that is what they originally got their tax exemption for. 01:09:20.960 --> 01:09:26.200 So this would be, as I stated, an extension of that tax exemption. 01:09:26.200 --> 01:09:31.840 Also, according to city records, no building permit was obtained for the electrical work 01:09:31.840 --> 01:09:35.360 done to the porch. 01:09:35.360 --> 01:09:42.520 So staff recommends a favorable determination that the expenses do result in a permanent 01:09:42.520 --> 01:09:45.520 improvement and/or restoration of the landmark property. 01:09:45.520 --> 01:09:50.520 However, staff does recommend that the total cost of improvements be reduced by a minimum 01:09:50.520 --> 01:09:56.240 of $50, which is the starting fee for electrical permits for residences. 01:09:56.240 --> 01:10:02.000 Okay, let's open it for questions of staff. 01:10:02.000 --> 01:10:07.920 How do you know there was electrical work on the porch? 01:10:07.920 --> 01:10:13.240 These electrical light fixtures right here, they're on the top of the posts and under 01:10:13.240 --> 01:10:16.280 here on the lighting. 01:10:16.280 --> 01:10:19.000 So those require a building permit. 01:10:19.000 --> 01:10:24.300 Do they have a building permit for the porch? 01:10:24.300 --> 01:10:29.000 Building permit is not required for the porch, just the electrical work. 01:10:29.000 --> 01:10:30.000 I see. 01:10:30.000 --> 01:10:31.000 Okay. 01:10:31.000 --> 01:10:32.000 Wow. 01:10:32.000 --> 01:10:33.000 I learned something new today. 01:10:33.000 --> 01:10:34.000 Thank you. 01:10:34.000 --> 01:10:38.880 So they just thought that adding those lights didn't matter. 01:10:38.880 --> 01:10:39.880 Correct. 01:10:39.880 --> 01:10:43.380 Well, that's not totally unreasonable. 01:10:43.380 --> 01:10:44.380 I wouldn't have thought so. 01:10:44.380 --> 01:10:50.800 I wouldn't have thought I needed it for that, so I guess I just, as I said, I learned something 01:10:50.800 --> 01:10:51.800 new today. 01:10:51.800 --> 01:10:52.800 Yes. 01:10:52.800 --> 01:10:53.800 Okay. 01:10:53.800 --> 01:10:56.680 Any other questions? 01:10:56.680 --> 01:10:57.680 Hearing none. 01:10:57.680 --> 01:11:03.520 In this particular instance, our options are, one, make a favorable finding of improvement. 01:11:03.520 --> 01:11:13.820 Two, make an unfavorable finding of improvement, deny or continue the item. 01:11:13.820 --> 01:11:14.820 Go ahead. 01:11:14.820 --> 01:11:19.160 I was just going to move a favorable finding. 01:11:19.160 --> 01:11:20.160 Second. 01:11:20.160 --> 01:11:21.160 Okay. 01:11:21.160 --> 01:11:23.900 We have a motion and a second. 01:11:23.900 --> 01:11:25.840 That opens the item for discussion. 01:11:25.840 --> 01:11:27.960 I'll open the floor. 01:11:27.960 --> 01:11:34.080 I'm fairly sure he spent more than what is listed on there doing all of the work. 01:11:34.080 --> 01:11:35.560 It's a continuous process. 01:11:35.560 --> 01:11:37.000 It's right across the street from my house. 01:11:37.000 --> 01:11:38.000 It's a constant process. 01:11:38.000 --> 01:11:39.000 He's always improving the house. 01:11:39.000 --> 01:11:44.160 I have no doubt he spends at least that much. 01:11:44.160 --> 01:11:45.480 Okay. 01:11:45.480 --> 01:11:50.360 We have a motion to make a favorable finding of improvement. 01:11:50.360 --> 01:11:53.360 Any other discussion? 01:11:53.360 --> 01:11:56.400 Hearing no one nodding, we'll call the vote. 01:11:56.400 --> 01:12:00.520 This, pardon me for one minute. 01:12:00.520 --> 01:12:01.520 Okay. 01:12:01.520 --> 01:12:03.720 Let's start with Mary. 01:12:03.720 --> 01:12:04.720 Yes. 01:12:04.720 --> 01:12:07.000 Janelle's gone. 01:12:07.000 --> 01:12:08.000 Lenny. 01:12:08.000 --> 01:12:09.000 Yes. 01:12:09.000 --> 01:12:10.000 Cassandra. 01:12:10.000 --> 01:12:11.000 Yay. 01:12:11.000 --> 01:12:12.000 Melody. 01:12:12.000 --> 01:12:13.000 Yes. 01:12:13.000 --> 01:12:14.000 Evan. 01:12:14.000 --> 01:12:15.000 Yay. 01:12:15.000 --> 01:12:20.920 And Roy is yay. 01:12:20.920 --> 01:12:25.920 So this item is we make a finding unanimously. 01:12:25.920 --> 01:12:32.480 Favorable finding of improvements in the amount requested. 01:12:32.480 --> 01:12:33.480 Okay. 01:12:33.480 --> 01:12:38.480 Now that I believe concludes our agenda for today. 01:12:38.480 --> 01:12:43.280 I think city attorney would prefer that we have adjourned by motion. 01:12:43.280 --> 01:12:46.400 So if we have a motion for adjournment and a second, we can vote. 01:12:46.400 --> 01:12:48.640 See you in a moment. 01:12:48.640 --> 01:12:49.640 Second. 01:12:49.640 --> 01:12:51.080 Motion and a second. 01:12:51.080 --> 01:12:54.480 All those in favor wave at the screen. 01:12:54.480 --> 01:12:55.480 That's unanimous. 01:12:55.480 --> 01:12:56.980 So we are done for the day. 01:12:56.980 --> 01:12:57.980 Thank you, everybody. 01:12:57.980 --> 01:12:58.980 Take care. 01:12:58.980 --> 01:12:58.980 Take care.