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 Okay, good morning, everybody. It's April 29, 2021. It's 1002 and we're going to start

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 our regularly scheduled Board of Ethics meeting. I had, I'd let Madison know beforehand that

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 unfortunately my second vaccine shot at 11 and Flower Mound. So at 1030, I'm going to

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 jump off of this meeting. So I don't know if Madison or, or one of the staff members

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 have, do we, do we elect somebody to take over when I leave now or do we wait till 1030?

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 I think we can, we can do either. I'm just not, maybe we should just wait. I don't know

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 how long the meeting will take. So, okay. All right. Well, let's, we'll wait. So today,

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 the first item on the agenda, Board of Ethics, Item A, Board of Ethics. Okay. Consider approval

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 of the minutes for March 25, 2021. Does anybody have a motion or any comments on that? I move

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 approval of the minutes. Okay. Annette has moved for approval. Is there a second? A second.

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 Rob Rayner or I guess it was Ronnie who said it first. Ronnie seconded that. And then I'll

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 just, is there any more discussion? I don't see anybody. So I'll go through everybody

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 so we can each vote. Vote for approval. I vote yes. Don? I think he mouthed yes. You're

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 first. All right. Rob? Yes. Annette? Yes. And I'll, I'll for the record, Don has given

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 a thumbs up and I saw his mouth say yes. Patricia? Yes. Dustin? Yes. Ronnie? Yes. Okay. That's

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 everyone, right? Okay. So motion is approved. The minutes are approved. And move, moving

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 to Item B, Receiver Report and Hold Discussion regarding revisions to the Handbook for Boards,

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 Senators and Council Committees. And I will say when me Madison talks, it's a good meeting

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 that I won't be here the whole time. Cause I think these next two items, she's going

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 to kind of lead the discussion. So I'm just going to turn it over to her. Okay. And I

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 have a quick presentation. So I'm just going to pull that up real quick and then we'll

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 go through, through this item. All right. So I don't know if you all know, but the city

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 one has a handbook that generally governs all of the city's volunteer boards and commissions.

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 And some updates, this handbook were recently proposed by the city secretary's office and

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 were approved by the city council last week. So this is just to give you a brief overview

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 of the major updates as they relate to you as the Board of Ethics, just so that you're

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 aware of them. So the first major change made was to include information in the handbook

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 stating that board and commission members information is subject to the Texas Public

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 Information Act. The handbook also states that all members can elect to withhold some

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 of their personal information, like their home address or telephone number by submitting

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 a public access form, but that has to be done before the 14th day after your appointment.

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 So I think you're all past that point at this time. The next update was the handbook clarifies

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 that board and commission, their chair and vice chair have to be elected annually. And

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 then basically it says that that is to happen in January or February. So we won't have any

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 issues going forward with, oh, when is that supposed to take place? So do you all have

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 any questions about this before we move on, these two changes? Wonderful. All right. So

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 this is kind of the big thing, I think. The handbook revisions updated the for cause removal

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 process for board and commission members. So just as a reminder, as a board member,

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 you can be removed from your position by the city council if you either have three unexcused

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 absences from board meetings in a year, if you fail to complete your appointment forms,

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 which are those forms that you completed at the very beginning when you were appointed.

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 Or if you, this is the new updated, they've made it so that you can be removed for cause

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 if you fail to complete your annual ethics training, which I'm sure you all are aware

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 of that. And I do want to just plug here that we just sent out that training in an email.

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 So hopefully you've seen that and you can complete that training. If you've already

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 completed it just previously, I'd like Don and Patricia, I think you guys already sent

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 yours in. But now we're using an electronic process. So please, if you haven't gotten

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 that email, let me know so I can try to make sure you get that training complete.

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 And I would say Madison, you might kind of make yourself a note to bring that up and

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 remind everybody to make sure everybody does it and nobody, we don't have to go through

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 a removal. That would not be fun. Yeah, no, I'll definitely send out reminders.

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 I just thought I'd mention it here since we're talking about it. So those are the reasons

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 that you can be removed for cause. And under the new process, the city secretary's office

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 will send out a notification to a member to any member that has failed to comply with

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 one of these requirements. The member will then have 10 business days to either correct

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 the failure if they didn't complete their ethics training or if they haven't completed

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 the their appointment forms, or they may have 10 business days to resign if they were absent

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 for more than three meetings, or three or more meetings. I think it's more than three

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 meetings, actually. And then so if they don't correct that failure, then the city secretary's

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 office will place an item on the next city council agenda that will allow the city council

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 to remove the board member. So are there any questions about this process? Yes, I think

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 I see Rob. I think I have to stop sharing actually. So give me one second. There we

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 go. Question, are there other boards that have alternate members on it? And how is that

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 affected on attendance? I don't I'm not sure if there are other board members. But if you're

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 an alternate member, sometimes like today we Deborah, even though she was it came she

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 wasn't necessary to show up. So so her not being here, it would not be counted as an

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 unexcused absence. But if you know, say, we said, Rob, you have to be there. And you can't

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 and you didn't come for a reason that you like that was unexcused, then you would be

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 counted as absent. Does that make sense? Yes. Thank you. Any other questions? So is the

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 you said that goes for city council for removal, but is it just I mean, is that automatic?

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 Where does the city council vote on that? Just wondering. I believe they vote on it.

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 Catherine, do you know more about if they could decide to not remove somebody at that

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 point? And don't have that right off the top of my head if they could decide not to remove

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 based on that, but we can we can get back. Okay, not a huge deal. I was just wondering.

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 Other questions about this? Okay, good. You just have one more slide on this. So we'll

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 move through that real quick. So there are a couple other looks here we go. Here we go.

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 There are a couple other kind of non substantive updates that don't really affect the board

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 in any way. But I put them here just in case you have any questions about them. I'm not

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 going to read through them. But that's kind of the end of the updates. So not too many.

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 But I thought the for cause removal process update was important. So anybody have questions

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 about this? Or anything? Anything that we talked about just now? Doesn't look like it.

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 All right. Okay. Since there's no question, I think there's more no more discussion on

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 that. So I will move on unless somebody speaks up. All right. So the last agenda item is

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 receive a report, hold a discussion and give staff direction regarding future meeting topics.

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 And I'll go ahead and throw it over to Madison again. Okay. So this item is, you know, as

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 you all know, we just did the prioritization kind of worksheet. And so the your backup

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 has the results of that. And this item is really when I was talking to Laura, we wanted

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 to make sure that when we were going to have these discussions moving forward, that you

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 had all the information you wanted basically. So this item is really for me to get direction

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 on what information to bring back to you for each of these topics, like benchmarking information

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 or historical information, things like that. And then I also I think, you know, there are

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 obviously some of these were the lowest priority. And so I wanted to see if there was any feedback

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 on if we still wanted to have that discussion, like for the orientation, do we do we still

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 want to have an orientation, given where it was ranked in the priority. So my idea was

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 just to go through each item individually, and then see if y'all had any feedback on

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 what information you wanted to see when we actually come back to you to discuss the topic.

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 So the first item is discuss if board members who have submitted complaints against city

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 officials should be able to participate in preliminary assessments or hearings of different

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 future complaints for the same city official. So is there any information that y'all would

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 like to see to help inform this discussion in the future?

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 I guess I have a question. Wouldn't that be subsumed under conflict of interest? I mean,

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 I get if if if you are, you can't be on a board where for the council member that appointed

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 you, but it does seem like a just a natural kind of extension that if you filed a complaint

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 against that person, you shouldn't be sitting on that board. I mean, I don't know, I think

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 it's important. I just don't know if it needs to be. I don't know. Curious if anybody else

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 has an opinion about that.

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 That would sound to me like that would be some very

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 logic

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 touchy territory to to talk about them twice.

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 Yeah. Yeah.

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 In a discussion of of complaints.

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 How has that been handled for previous complaints?

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 There's no restriction. We've had board members submit complaints in the past, and we've not

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 restricted their ability to be on future panels or board in part as part of future board meetings.

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 So as far as I guess, I think what the what Madison wanted to do with this agenda item

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 is just get like what maybe like history of this situation or, you know, maybe look at

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 other cities, what they do or whatever. So I think what she wants is just like, we want

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 anything like that for when we put this this item on a meeting as an agenda item to discuss

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 and decide, you know, what we want to do, whether we'd want to like amend, make an amendment

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 to the ordinance or whatever. So does anybody have any like, I guess Dustin saying, like,

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 maybe we could bring you could look into like what we've done in the past, which maybe we

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 already know that pretty quickly. But is there anything else that you want Madison to do like

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 research on or bring to the meeting for that?

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 I think that one might be that people kind of, you know, I think we might already have

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 a have opinions on that.

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 Okay, well, I'll make sure I'll go ahead.

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 It is a priority right now, according to our survey. And the only time that it's really

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 occurred was when the violation was against a ruling made by this committee. And I'm not

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 sure that that wasn't appropriate at the time.

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 Yeah, so I'll make sure when we come back with this item probably next next month, that

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 we have some info on when if when and well, we know this has occurred in the past and

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 how that has been handled previously. So that sounds good. Then the next item is discuss

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 potentially prohibiting the processing or submission of ethics complaints during election

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 season.

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 So is there any, would you like me to look at other what other cities do?

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 I would love to hear what other cities do. I think that would be helpful.

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 Okay. And so as far as that's concerned, I obviously I don't want to I can't look at

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 every city, right. So just two or three cities, maybe. Yeah.

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 Okay, a couple two or three cities, maybe. I think Dallas and Fort Worth, they both have

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 ethics ordinances.

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 You might also I don't you know, and I don't I don't know what the difference would be

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 between like Dallas and a city of a similar size. But in Dallas, it's so big. But in Denton,

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 it feels a lot smaller as far as people knowing each other and kind of the same people running

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 in politics here probably know.

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 So that's a good point, you know, the our office, our department internal audit has

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 kind of a set of what we consider to be pure city cities based on size and population growth

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 and things like that. I can look into those cities and see one if they have ethics complaints

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 and then also if they do what their ordinances potentially say about this topic. And then

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 I can also kind of hit those big cities like Dallas and Fort Worth and Austin just so that

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 we have, you know, what they do as well. Does that sound good? Yeah, that sounds great.

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 I would just say three total cities don't make too much work for yourself. Yeah.

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 Okay. Then anything else on this topic? Or we get to move on to the next one is discuss

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 revising the confidentiality section to clarify who can communicate what if an ethics complaint

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 is submitted. Particularly should the respondent be able to request the board consider for

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 Volody. I think part of this is the current ordinance. There's the ex parte communication

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 section that really restricts communication between the board and the parties to a complaint.

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 So but then we also have I think in some ways the complaint, the complainant has been able

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 to communicate something the respondent is not able to do any of that until the hearing.

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 So I think that's kind of the question there. Is there any information y'all would like

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 to see on this before we have a discussion about it? Again, I think what other cities

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 do if they I don't know if they're, you know, if they even have frivolous and if they do

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 if they have anything that addresses it. Okay. That might be an answer for all of them. Okay.

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 So we'll look at city information on that item as well. Anything else before we move

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 to the next item? The next item is some minor adjustments to the rules of procedure and

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 the ordinance that we've already kind of talked about. I would say that these really aren't

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 substantive in a big way, but they're kind of higher up on the priority list. So I think

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 my question really here is do we need to have another discussion about these or kind of

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 at the end of this process when we potentially have changes to the ordinance, would you like

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 to bring those back as a package? I will say, you know, over the past few years being on

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 the board and I guess, you know, maybe second, second year of being chair. I don't feel like

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 I get clear. I don't every time we talk to council, it seems like sometimes they're like

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 bring things one at a time. Sometimes they're like bringing in a package and another time

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 they bring something that gets through really quickly. So if you have any way to figure

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 out, you know, what they're going, cause like I've brought stuff and then they say, no,

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 come back with more. If you have an idea of whether if we just take this, it will go through

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 or if we need to do it all at once, like what they're going to approve and what they're

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 going to allow us to do that. I guess that would be my only comment on that one, which

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 I mean, could change, you know, the lectures are what Tuesday, so there's going to be,

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 we might not know cause there might be new people.

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 Yes, I can try to get that information. I'll probably wait until after the election since

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 it's yeah, for sure. But yeah, I can, I can do that. And then, you know, before we even

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 get to this, this on the list, you know, we'll have at least another meeting next month.

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 So hopefully I'll have some more information at that point and we can potentially talk

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 about how we want to package the, any potential changes that we come up with, um, to the council.

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 All right. Anything else on this item? Um, the next one is discuss if termination of

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 employment relationship from a business entity, uh, results in a conflict of interest no longer

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 being current. Um, this kind of came up as part of a, uh, advisory opinion that we had

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 a month or so ago. Um, so I think obviously we would include that information. Is there

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 anything else about this or any questions you have, um, about this?

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 Peer cities again would be my comment. Okay. And is there also, um, in the like state statutes,

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 do they have like a, like a time limit or is it just current? Okay. So also look into

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 the state legislation. Yeah. Yeah. Um, they're the conflict of interest for them on that.

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 So really kind of trying to get some information on what other cities do regarding what is

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 considered a current conflict of interest. That's what you're asking. Yeah. Yeah. Anybody

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 else? Um, the next item is having a board of ethics orientation, which would just kind

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 of outline the ethics complaint process. And we just kind of informational session. Um,

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 I think this, I had a similar question about, is this something we still feel like we need

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 to do given how it was ranked by everyone? Uh, I would say, um, you know, it's ranked

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 low, but I mean, definitely maybe start next year. Um, you know, now we're kind of, you

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 know, we've had several meetings about the ethics complaint process because of your,

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 um, your presentation and, um, we have one brand new member and then I guess another

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 member that's been on for like a year. So I don't know if I know Patricia was interested

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 in it last year and I dunno, it never happened. It's 2020 was a weird time. So, um, I dunno,

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 I would say we definitely should put it on the, something that we do at least starting

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 next year. I don't know as far as what I, you know, what, when we would discuss that

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 because I, you know, if we're not going to do it to next year, I'd say low priority,

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 let's get the changes first. But that's my opinion. That makes sense. Okay. So it sounds

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 like the direction I'm hearing is to pretty much kind of delay this item until maybe after

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 the next appointment process or something like that where we potentially have, um, new

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 members or have like an annual orientation where we just go over everything again. Um,

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 could be another option. I mean, I'm not sure if annual orientation, you know, a lot of

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 us, um, several of us have been on this board for a while now and I think we understand

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 it definitely if there's new appointments, we should have one, but I would say maybe

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 we just discuss what would be in the orientation, maybe later this year. And so that by the

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 time next year, if there's going to be some, some change in the board, um, we can do it

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 then. Yeah. I don't feel, um, as a newest member, I don't feel a huge need to go through

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 an orientation after going through the ethics complaint process at the last meeting and

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 before the last meeting. Um, since you put together all the, you know, the flowcharts

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 for the process and then the narratives, um, I feel comfortable with that. So if that makes

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 a difference to anyone else, I think that's a good point. He kind of came on when we kind

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 of all went through somewhat of an orientation of how it works. Right. Okay. So go ahead.

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 Oh, I was just going to say, I, I put my fingers to my lips. I was talking to my kids, but

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 I want to make sure nobody thought I was getting ripped. I'm, uh, you know, watching kids,

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 you know, spouse is working. I'm on this. So it's a, yeah. Anyway, go ahead. All right.

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 So then it sounds like maybe have, um, a discussion kind of, uh, towards the end of the year about

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 what we would want an orientation to look like if we, if we needed to have one basically.

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 Yeah. Okay. Sounds good. Um, and then the last item on here is discuss outlining and

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 potentially formalizing procedures to be followed if a board member is contacted by a news agency.

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 Does anybody have any, uh, anything that they would want on this item or any thoughts about

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 this? I thought it was already pretty clear. We're not supposed to talk. Is that? Well,

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 I guess if there's a complaint, there are certain things about the complaint. Um, but

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 I don't know. I mean, I, I, I got contacted by a new news agency once and I emailed them

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 back and then I never heard from again. So I don't, I guess it's not that pressing, but,

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 um, I don't know in my position, it's kind of like, I, you know, I don't want to go out

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 of line or anything. So that was higher up in my priority list because it affects me,

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 but it's not that big of a deal, I guess, because the DRC doesn't really contact me.

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 Well, I think not talking to them and then referring them to the chairman of our committee.

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 Uh, Rob, I agree with that. I think that's well, that's why the chairman gets paid the

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 big bucks. But, uh, but I remember reading, we had a situation, uh, talking to city managers

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 and lawyers and such, but I read in the paper, there was a specific, uh, uh, flow chart as

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 it were of who we would talk to and who would talk to the press and such. And, and I'd like

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 to see if we could revisit that. I don't know how many months ago that was in the paper,

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 Madison, but it was a pretty well defined, I think by the city manager as to who should

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 talk to who and before it finally gets out to the press. And I, I, I think that would

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 be important for us to at least know those guidelines besides the, uh, the all safe one,

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 which is contact the chair.

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 Um, and I'd also like to know, Madison, um, well, as far as, you know, I guess the, whether

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 it's the chair or individual speaking that, but also just any kind of guidelines other

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 boards have as far as the chair or anyone else and what, you know, and I know our board

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 is a lot different and there is like confidentiality, but, um, like I said, I, I want guidance

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 in case I get asked questions.

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 I think I maybe put this higher on my priorities because I didn't, I don't think I've gotten

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 any direction on this. I haven't been contacted by anyone, but if I was, I wouldn't know what

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 to, you know, what the proper response would be or if I'm allowed to respond to that. So

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 I put this, I think higher on my list and orientation because I was pretty clear on

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 what the process was, but this was something I haven't seen anything written down for,

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 um, what's appropriate for us to be our contact.

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 So it sounds like maybe there's some, a flow chart that Rob is referencing that we can

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 try to figure out what that was, um, and see if there's any other guidelines that other

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 boards might have, um, uh, and we, I can try to get that information for y'all for when

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 we have this conversation. Anything else on this item?

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 And then obviously there are, there are some sections of the ordinance that discuss confidentiality

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 about ethics complaints. So we'll include that information as well.

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00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:37,860
 Okay. All right. Well, I think that's all the items on this list. Um, I think it's appropriate.

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 I just wanted to check with y'all and see if you liked this process. Um, obviously I

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 know this meeting wasn't necessarily too in depth, but I thought it was good to get some

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 of this information and requests from y'all. Um,

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 I really liked that process and I appreciated the time it took to do it. Cause it, it was

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 a good way to think about what priorities were.

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 Yeah, me too. I, I, you know, and now we can kind of hit through some of these and me and

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 me and you can discuss before the next meeting. Cause some of them I think will go quick.

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 I actually thought this meeting was going to go longer, but I think it's about to end.

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 So I don't have to jump off just yet, but, um, and then, you know, maybe after we hit

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 all these, maybe it'll take a few months. We can kind of have another, okay, what's everybody's

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 ideas, but kind of do it. I don't know, a democratic way of, of deciding what we're

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 talking about versus just me and you before the meeting.

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00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:36,880
 Also, I do have an inquiry. Has there been anything done about moving our meetings to

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 the afternoon? I think we had talked about that once before cause some of our schedules

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 are certainly more heavy in the morning than in the afternoons.

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 Yeah, we, um, I think we have all of our meetings, uh, scheduled out under this current situation.

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 Um, I think we're allowed to talk about this cause we're on future topics, but, um, I think

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 there's a potential that we're going to have people start coming back even boards and commissions.

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00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:11,000
 There's going to be a discussion in May by the council about that. Um, so we have all

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 the meetings out till I believe September or October scheduled. Um, some of them we

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 were able to get in the afternoon and some we were not just because other meetings were

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 scheduled. Um, we'll continue to try to get pushed for that three o'clock time, um, if

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 we can. Um, but I also think coming up, we might need to, we might have a discussion

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 about, um, you know, we previously had meetings in the evenings and we might be able to move

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 back to that. You might have to move back to that, uh, uh, time. We might be able to

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 move back to that time if you guys would like to do that. So I think we're a little bit

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 up in the air, but we'll, until we know more, we'll keep pushing for the three o'clock virtual

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 meetings. Thank you. Okay. Um, if there's anything else, I'm going to have to have somebody

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 else take over, but if we're done, we can go ahead and adjourn the meeting. I just real,

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 real quick on this last item. I want to say, uh, it sounds like this process worked well.

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 So if you have ideas, just send them to me and I'll keep, I'll start on a new list basically.

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 So, um, if you don't feel like you have to wait until a couple of months from now. Very

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 fine job, Madison. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Madison. Thank you all so much.

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00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:31,240
 Okay. Uh, is there anything else from anybody? Not trying to rush. I can have somebody else

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 take over chair if there is, but I don't think we have anything else to discuss this meeting.

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 So, um, thanks everybody for coming and we'll go ahead and adjourn at 10 34. Thanks. Bye.