Apr 29, 2021 Board of Ethics on 2021-04-29 10:00 AM

Okay, good morning, everybody. It's April 29, 2021. It's 1002 and we're going to start our regularly scheduled Board of Ethics meeting. I had, I'd let Madison know beforehand that unfortunately my second vaccine shot at 11 and Flower Mound. So at 1030, I'm going to jump off of this meeting. So I don't know if Madison or, or one of the staff members have, do we, do we elect somebody to take over when I leave now or do we wait till 1030? I think we can, we can do either. I'm just not, maybe we should just wait. I don't know how long the meeting will take. So, okay. All right. Well, let's, we'll wait. So today, the first item on the agenda, Board of Ethics, Item A, Board of Ethics. Okay. Consider approval of the minutes for March 25, 2021. Does anybody have a motion or any comments on that? I move approval of the minutes. Okay. Annette has moved for approval. Is there a second? A second. Rob Rayner or I guess it was Ronnie who said it first. Ronnie seconded that. And then I'll just, is there any more discussion? I don't see anybody. So I'll go through everybody so we can each vote. Vote for approval. I vote yes. Don? I think he mouthed yes. You're first. All right. Rob? Yes. Annette? Yes. And I'll, I'll for the record, Don has given a thumbs up and I saw his mouth say yes. Patricia? Yes. Dustin? Yes. Ronnie? Yes. Okay. That's everyone, right? Okay. So motion is approved. The minutes are approved. And move, moving to Item B, Receiver Report and Hold Discussion regarding revisions to the Handbook for Boards, Senators and Council Committees. And I will say when me Madison talks, it's a good meeting that I won't be here the whole time. Cause I think these next two items, she's going to kind of lead the discussion. So I'm just going to turn it over to her. Okay. And I have a quick presentation. So I'm just going to pull that up real quick and then we'll go through, through this item. All right. So I don't know if you all know, but the city one has a handbook that generally governs all of the city's volunteer boards and commissions. And some updates, this handbook were recently proposed by the city secretary's office and were approved by the city council last week. So this is just to give you a brief overview of the major updates as they relate to you as the Board of Ethics, just so that you're aware of them. So the first major change made was to include information in the handbook stating that board and commission members information is subject to the Texas Public Information Act. The handbook also states that all members can elect to withhold some of their personal information, like their home address or telephone number by submitting a public access form, but that has to be done before the 14th day after your appointment. So I think you're all past that point at this time. The next update was the handbook clarifies that board and commission, their chair and vice chair have to be elected annually. And then basically it says that that is to happen in January or February. So we won't have any issues going forward with, oh, when is that supposed to take place? So do you all have any questions about this before we move on, these two changes? Wonderful. All right. So this is kind of the big thing, I think. The handbook revisions updated the for cause removal process for board and commission members. So just as a reminder, as a board member, you can be removed from your position by the city council if you either have three unexcused absences from board meetings in a year, if you fail to complete your appointment forms, which are those forms that you completed at the very beginning when you were appointed. Or if you, this is the new updated, they've made it so that you can be removed for cause if you fail to complete your annual ethics training, which I'm sure you all are aware of that. And I do want to just plug here that we just sent out that training in an email. So hopefully you've seen that and you can complete that training. If you've already completed it just previously, I'd like Don and Patricia, I think you guys already sent yours in. But now we're using an electronic process. So please, if you haven't gotten that email, let me know so I can try to make sure you get that training complete. And I would say Madison, you might kind of make yourself a note to bring that up and remind everybody to make sure everybody does it and nobody, we don't have to go through a removal. That would not be fun. Yeah, no, I'll definitely send out reminders. I just thought I'd mention it here since we're talking about it. So those are the reasons that you can be removed for cause. And under the new process, the city secretary's office will send out a notification to a member to any member that has failed to comply with one of these requirements. The member will then have 10 business days to either correct the failure if they didn't complete their ethics training or if they haven't completed the their appointment forms, or they may have 10 business days to resign if they were absent for more than three meetings, or three or more meetings. I think it's more than three meetings, actually. And then so if they don't correct that failure, then the city secretary's office will place an item on the next city council agenda that will allow the city council to remove the board member. So are there any questions about this process? Yes, I think I see Rob. I think I have to stop sharing actually. So give me one second. There we go. Question, are there other boards that have alternate members on it? And how is that affected on attendance? I don't I'm not sure if there are other board members. But if you're an alternate member, sometimes like today we Deborah, even though she was it came she wasn't necessary to show up. So so her not being here, it would not be counted as an unexcused absence. But if you know, say, we said, Rob, you have to be there. And you can't and you didn't come for a reason that you like that was unexcused, then you would be counted as absent. Does that make sense? Yes. Thank you. Any other questions? So is the you said that goes for city council for removal, but is it just I mean, is that automatic? Where does the city council vote on that? Just wondering. I believe they vote on it. Catherine, do you know more about if they could decide to not remove somebody at that point? And don't have that right off the top of my head if they could decide not to remove based on that, but we can we can get back. Okay, not a huge deal. I was just wondering. Other questions about this? Okay, good. You just have one more slide on this. So we'll move through that real quick. So there are a couple other looks here we go. Here we go. There are a couple other kind of non substantive updates that don't really affect the board in any way. But I put them here just in case you have any questions about them. I'm not going to read through them. But that's kind of the end of the updates. So not too many. But I thought the for cause removal process update was important. So anybody have questions about this? Or anything? Anything that we talked about just now? Doesn't look like it. All right. Okay. Since there's no question, I think there's more no more discussion on that. So I will move on unless somebody speaks up. All right. So the last agenda item is receive a report, hold a discussion and give staff direction regarding future meeting topics. And I'll go ahead and throw it over to Madison again. Okay. So this item is, you know, as you all know, we just did the prioritization kind of worksheet. And so the your backup has the results of that. And this item is really when I was talking to Laura, we wanted to make sure that when we were going to have these discussions moving forward, that you had all the information you wanted basically. So this item is really for me to get direction on what information to bring back to you for each of these topics, like benchmarking information or historical information, things like that. And then I also I think, you know, there are obviously some of these were the lowest priority. And so I wanted to see if there was any feedback on if we still wanted to have that discussion, like for the orientation, do we do we still want to have an orientation, given where it was ranked in the priority. So my idea was just to go through each item individually, and then see if y'all had any feedback on what information you wanted to see when we actually come back to you to discuss the topic. So the first item is discuss if board members who have submitted complaints against city officials should be able to participate in preliminary assessments or hearings of different future complaints for the same city official. So is there any information that y'all would like to see to help inform this discussion in the future? I guess I have a question. Wouldn't that be subsumed under conflict of interest? I mean, I get if if if you are, you can't be on a board where for the council member that appointed you, but it does seem like a just a natural kind of extension that if you filed a complaint against that person, you shouldn't be sitting on that board. I mean, I don't know, I think it's important. I just don't know if it needs to be. I don't know. Curious if anybody else has an opinion about that. That would sound to me like that would be some very logic touchy territory to to talk about them twice. Yeah. Yeah. In a discussion of of complaints. How has that been handled for previous complaints? There's no restriction. We've had board members submit complaints in the past, and we've not restricted their ability to be on future panels or board in part as part of future board meetings. So as far as I guess, I think what the what Madison wanted to do with this agenda item is just get like what maybe like history of this situation or, you know, maybe look at other cities, what they do or whatever. So I think what she wants is just like, we want anything like that for when we put this this item on a meeting as an agenda item to discuss and decide, you know, what we want to do, whether we'd want to like amend, make an amendment to the ordinance or whatever. So does anybody have any like, I guess Dustin saying, like, maybe we could bring you could look into like what we've done in the past, which maybe we already know that pretty quickly. But is there anything else that you want Madison to do like research on or bring to the meeting for that? I think that one might be that people kind of, you know, I think we might already have a have opinions on that. Okay, well, I'll make sure I'll go ahead. It is a priority right now, according to our survey. And the only time that it's really occurred was when the violation was against a ruling made by this committee. And I'm not sure that that wasn't appropriate at the time. Yeah, so I'll make sure when we come back with this item probably next next month, that we have some info on when if when and well, we know this has occurred in the past and how that has been handled previously. So that sounds good. Then the next item is discuss potentially prohibiting the processing or submission of ethics complaints during election season. So is there any, would you like me to look at other what other cities do? I would love to hear what other cities do. I think that would be helpful. Okay. And so as far as that's concerned, I obviously I don't want to I can't look at every city, right. So just two or three cities, maybe. Yeah. Okay, a couple two or three cities, maybe. I think Dallas and Fort Worth, they both have ethics ordinances. You might also I don't you know, and I don't I don't know what the difference would be between like Dallas and a city of a similar size. But in Dallas, it's so big. But in Denton, it feels a lot smaller as far as people knowing each other and kind of the same people running in politics here probably know. So that's a good point, you know, the our office, our department internal audit has kind of a set of what we consider to be pure city cities based on size and population growth and things like that. I can look into those cities and see one if they have ethics complaints and then also if they do what their ordinances potentially say about this topic. And then I can also kind of hit those big cities like Dallas and Fort Worth and Austin just so that we have, you know, what they do as well. Does that sound good? Yeah, that sounds great. I would just say three total cities don't make too much work for yourself. Yeah. Okay. Then anything else on this topic? Or we get to move on to the next one is discuss revising the confidentiality section to clarify who can communicate what if an ethics complaint is submitted. Particularly should the respondent be able to request the board consider for Volody. I think part of this is the current ordinance. There's the ex parte communication section that really restricts communication between the board and the parties to a complaint. So but then we also have I think in some ways the complaint, the complainant has been able to communicate something the respondent is not able to do any of that until the hearing. So I think that's kind of the question there. Is there any information y'all would like to see on this before we have a discussion about it? Again, I think what other cities do if they I don't know if they're, you know, if they even have frivolous and if they do if they have anything that addresses it. Okay. That might be an answer for all of them. Okay. So we'll look at city information on that item as well. Anything else before we move to the next item? The next item is some minor adjustments to the rules of procedure and the ordinance that we've already kind of talked about. I would say that these really aren't substantive in a big way, but they're kind of higher up on the priority list. So I think my question really here is do we need to have another discussion about these or kind of at the end of this process when we potentially have changes to the ordinance, would you like to bring those back as a package? I will say, you know, over the past few years being on the board and I guess, you know, maybe second, second year of being chair. I don't feel like I get clear. I don't every time we talk to council, it seems like sometimes they're like bring things one at a time. Sometimes they're like bringing in a package and another time they bring something that gets through really quickly. So if you have any way to figure out, you know, what they're going, cause like I've brought stuff and then they say, no, come back with more. If you have an idea of whether if we just take this, it will go through or if we need to do it all at once, like what they're going to approve and what they're going to allow us to do that. I guess that would be my only comment on that one, which I mean, could change, you know, the lectures are what Tuesday, so there's going to be, we might not know cause there might be new people. Yes, I can try to get that information. I'll probably wait until after the election since it's yeah, for sure. But yeah, I can, I can do that. And then, you know, before we even get to this, this on the list, you know, we'll have at least another meeting next month. So hopefully I'll have some more information at that point and we can potentially talk about how we want to package the, any potential changes that we come up with, um, to the council. All right. Anything else on this item? Um, the next one is discuss if termination of employment relationship from a business entity, uh, results in a conflict of interest no longer being current. Um, this kind of came up as part of a, uh, advisory opinion that we had a month or so ago. Um, so I think obviously we would include that information. Is there anything else about this or any questions you have, um, about this? Peer cities again would be my comment. Okay. And is there also, um, in the like state statutes, do they have like a, like a time limit or is it just current? Okay. So also look into the state legislation. Yeah. Yeah. Um, they're the conflict of interest for them on that. So really kind of trying to get some information on what other cities do regarding what is considered a current conflict of interest. That's what you're asking. Yeah. Yeah. Anybody else? Um, the next item is having a board of ethics orientation, which would just kind of outline the ethics complaint process. And we just kind of informational session. Um, I think this, I had a similar question about, is this something we still feel like we need to do given how it was ranked by everyone? Uh, I would say, um, you know, it's ranked low, but I mean, definitely maybe start next year. Um, you know, now we're kind of, you know, we've had several meetings about the ethics complaint process because of your, um, your presentation and, um, we have one brand new member and then I guess another member that's been on for like a year. So I don't know if I know Patricia was interested in it last year and I dunno, it never happened. It's 2020 was a weird time. So, um, I dunno, I would say we definitely should put it on the, something that we do at least starting next year. I don't know as far as what I, you know, what, when we would discuss that because I, you know, if we're not going to do it to next year, I'd say low priority, let's get the changes first. But that's my opinion. That makes sense. Okay. So it sounds like the direction I'm hearing is to pretty much kind of delay this item until maybe after the next appointment process or something like that where we potentially have, um, new members or have like an annual orientation where we just go over everything again. Um, could be another option. I mean, I'm not sure if annual orientation, you know, a lot of us, um, several of us have been on this board for a while now and I think we understand it definitely if there's new appointments, we should have one, but I would say maybe we just discuss what would be in the orientation, maybe later this year. And so that by the time next year, if there's going to be some, some change in the board, um, we can do it then. Yeah. I don't feel, um, as a newest member, I don't feel a huge need to go through an orientation after going through the ethics complaint process at the last meeting and before the last meeting. Um, since you put together all the, you know, the flowcharts for the process and then the narratives, um, I feel comfortable with that. So if that makes a difference to anyone else, I think that's a good point. He kind of came on when we kind of all went through somewhat of an orientation of how it works. Right. Okay. So go ahead. Oh, I was just going to say, I, I put my fingers to my lips. I was talking to my kids, but I want to make sure nobody thought I was getting ripped. I'm, uh, you know, watching kids, you know, spouse is working. I'm on this. So it's a, yeah. Anyway, go ahead. All right. So then it sounds like maybe have, um, a discussion kind of, uh, towards the end of the year about what we would want an orientation to look like if we, if we needed to have one basically. Yeah. Okay. Sounds good. Um, and then the last item on here is discuss outlining and potentially formalizing procedures to be followed if a board member is contacted by a news agency. Does anybody have any, uh, anything that they would want on this item or any thoughts about this? I thought it was already pretty clear. We're not supposed to talk. Is that? Well, I guess if there's a complaint, there are certain things about the complaint. Um, but I don't know. I mean, I, I, I got contacted by a new news agency once and I emailed them back and then I never heard from again. So I don't, I guess it's not that pressing, but, um, I don't know in my position, it's kind of like, I, you know, I don't want to go out of line or anything. So that was higher up in my priority list because it affects me, but it's not that big of a deal, I guess, because the DRC doesn't really contact me. Well, I think not talking to them and then referring them to the chairman of our committee. Uh, Rob, I agree with that. I think that's well, that's why the chairman gets paid the big bucks. But, uh, but I remember reading, we had a situation, uh, talking to city managers and lawyers and such, but I read in the paper, there was a specific, uh, uh, flow chart as it were of who we would talk to and who would talk to the press and such. And, and I'd like to see if we could revisit that. I don't know how many months ago that was in the paper, Madison, but it was a pretty well defined, I think by the city manager as to who should talk to who and before it finally gets out to the press. And I, I, I think that would be important for us to at least know those guidelines besides the, uh, the all safe one, which is contact the chair. Um, and I'd also like to know, Madison, um, well, as far as, you know, I guess the, whether it's the chair or individual speaking that, but also just any kind of guidelines other boards have as far as the chair or anyone else and what, you know, and I know our board is a lot different and there is like confidentiality, but, um, like I said, I, I want guidance in case I get asked questions. I think I maybe put this higher on my priorities because I didn't, I don't think I've gotten any direction on this. I haven't been contacted by anyone, but if I was, I wouldn't know what to, you know, what the proper response would be or if I'm allowed to respond to that. So I put this, I think higher on my list and orientation because I was pretty clear on what the process was, but this was something I haven't seen anything written down for, um, what's appropriate for us to be our contact. So it sounds like maybe there's some, a flow chart that Rob is referencing that we can try to figure out what that was, um, and see if there's any other guidelines that other boards might have, um, uh, and we, I can try to get that information for y'all for when we have this conversation. Anything else on this item? And then obviously there are, there are some sections of the ordinance that discuss confidentiality about ethics complaints. So we'll include that information as well. Okay. All right. Well, I think that's all the items on this list. Um, I think it's appropriate. I just wanted to check with y'all and see if you liked this process. Um, obviously I know this meeting wasn't necessarily too in depth, but I thought it was good to get some of this information and requests from y'all. Um, I really liked that process and I appreciated the time it took to do it. Cause it, it was a good way to think about what priorities were. Yeah, me too. I, I, you know, and now we can kind of hit through some of these and me and me and you can discuss before the next meeting. Cause some of them I think will go quick. I actually thought this meeting was going to go longer, but I think it's about to end. So I don't have to jump off just yet, but, um, and then, you know, maybe after we hit all these, maybe it'll take a few months. We can kind of have another, okay, what's everybody's ideas, but kind of do it. I don't know, a democratic way of, of deciding what we're talking about versus just me and you before the meeting. Also, I do have an inquiry. Has there been anything done about moving our meetings to the afternoon? I think we had talked about that once before cause some of our schedules are certainly more heavy in the morning than in the afternoons. Yeah, we, um, I think we have all of our meetings, uh, scheduled out under this current situation. Um, I think we're allowed to talk about this cause we're on future topics, but, um, I think there's a potential that we're going to have people start coming back even boards and commissions. There's going to be a discussion in May by the council about that. Um, so we have all the meetings out till I believe September or October scheduled. Um, some of them we were able to get in the afternoon and some we were not just because other meetings were scheduled. Um, we'll continue to try to get pushed for that three o'clock time, um, if we can. Um, but I also think coming up, we might need to, we might have a discussion about, um, you know, we previously had meetings in the evenings and we might be able to move back to that. You might have to move back to that, uh, uh, time. We might be able to move back to that time if you guys would like to do that. So I think we're a little bit up in the air, but we'll, until we know more, we'll keep pushing for the three o'clock virtual meetings. Thank you. Okay. Um, if there's anything else, I'm going to have to have somebody else take over, but if we're done, we can go ahead and adjourn the meeting. I just real, real quick on this last item. I want to say, uh, it sounds like this process worked well. So if you have ideas, just send them to me and I'll keep, I'll start on a new list basically. So, um, if you don't feel like you have to wait until a couple of months from now. Very fine job, Madison. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Madison. Thank you all so much. Okay. Uh, is there anything else from anybody? Not trying to rush. I can have somebody else take over chair if there is, but I don't think we have anything else to discuss this meeting. So, um, thanks everybody for coming and we'll go ahead and adjourn at 10 34. Thanks. Bye.