Apr 27, 2021 City Council on 2021-04-27 3:00 PM
April 27, 2021 City Council
Full Transcript
Good afternoon and welcome to this meeting of the Denton City Council.
It is 3 p.m. on April 27, 2021.
We do have a quorum, so I will call this meeting and work session to order.
We do not have any calls for the first item, citizens' comments on the consent agenda.
That takes us to section two, requests for clarification of the agenda, items listed
on the agenda from council.
Any questions for staff regarding the consent agenda?
One more time.
Seeing none.
Okay.
That concludes that.
That takes us to the first work session, which is item 3A, ID 21772, receive report and hold.
And this hold a discussion and give staff direction regarding the Denton Municipal Electric
LED Streetlight Retrofit Program, Bird City, Texas Program, and Lights Out Texas Educational
Campaign.
Good afternoon, Mayor, members of council, sustainability manager, and then I was a jury
builder here in the room with me from DME who can jump in and Chris Lutrick and Tony
Quente on the line as well, if we get into any technical questions with LEDs, let me
share my screen with you.
See that?
Yes.
Whoops.
All right, so the Denton Municipal Electric Streetlighting Retrofit Program.
Just a brief history.
We have an overview of the retrofit program.
We had some community concerns that were raised, concerns about the International Dark Sky
Association requirements, about the Bird City, Texas program, and then also some emails just
reaching out to us about the Lights Out for Birds campaign.
So we wanted to bring that back to you.
So in 2018, DME did a community survey regarding LED streetlights.
There were safety concerns expressed at that time, primarily about thoroughfares, pedestrian
and cyclist safety was a big concern.
In 2019, the LED retrofit program was approved by city council, and in 2020, they began the
retrofit installations.
So in 2021, we had the concerns, we heard those, we paused the retrofit program and
wanted to prepare this update to come back to city council for discussion.
So as of March 31st, we have retrofitted about 1600 of the residential Cobra headlights,
and those are all U0, so they have no uplight and they are dark sky compliant.
We have about 460 decorative post top lights that are not, sorry, they're adjusting me,
that are not dark sky compliant.
And then our LED lights there, we can dim those and they are dimmed to 60% right now.
On our thoroughfare lighting, we're using the text that recommended 4000 Kelvin lighting,
and we have installed about 1250 of those lights today.
So the International Dark Sky Association exempts lighting within the public right of
way or easement with the principal purpose of illuminating streets or roads.
And on the Bird City, Texas requirements to reduce light pollution, it's an optional credit,
but they recommend not using anything higher than a 4000 Kelvin light, which is what we
are using on our thoroughfares.
On the Lights Out for Birds, Lights Out Texas education campaign, we began promoting that
on the 14th of April as that migration season is really from April 19th through May 7th,
and then it will have a fall migration as well, but we went ahead and started letting
folks know about the Lights Out Texas program, about bird casts, so that they could find
out the migration forecasts, and those are generated from March 1st to June 15th, and
then again in the fall.
So citizens can sign on, they can get migration forecast alerts, they can see what the predicted
migration levels are for that night, and it just trying to encourage folks to turn off
that up lighting so that birds aren't disoriented by any additional light.
So our next steps, DME is working with an engineering firm to perform a third party
lighting assessment and determine if our current lighting levels are adequate, and assess the
need for additional lights in unlit or underlit residential areas, and develop a lighting
standard for the city of Denton.
And then we began promoting the Lights Out campaign, and the staff recommendation would
be to continue the street lighting retrofit program with the following considerations.
One we'd like to identify dark sky compliant pull top fixture for new installations and
specify that in the development code, address dimming and shielding as requested, and then
another option would be to install and dim to 60% of max brightness in residential areas
to address concerns.
And with that, I will stop sharing and we can answer questions.
Okay, thank you.
Questions for staff.
Councilman Meltzer.
Thank you.
Yeah, I have a couple.
Once we have LED lights in place, I think that's the kind of tipping point, but you tell me,
do we then have central control and granular control of what's dimmed when and, you know,
or is it all kind of going out light by light?
Jerry, you want to jump in?
Oh, Jerry.
It was pretty brilliant what I said to Jerry Fielder, division engineering manager for
DME.
Yes, with the software program that we have for the control of the LED lights, we control
lights, we can control lights individually in groups and we can dim them anywhere.
Doesn't all have to be the same thing, you know, keep them at 100% or dim them down to
around 10%.
So we have total flexibility with the system that we have in place that we will have in
place once the lights are in.
Yeah.
And, and then you can change that over time, for instance, you know, bird migration or
two times, two extended periods of time of the year, and then it's not.
So you know, would you be able to change what you do during those periods of time and then
turn the dimmers back to some other level after?
Certainly, I know we can do it manually, but I believe the software actually has a calendar
function in it.
And if we can put that into the calendar function of the software, then yes, it can dim them
down, you know, all the lights and didn't down to 40% or specific area, or however we
want to do that.
It's, it's a pretty flexible program.
That's great.
Now have we actually met with the International Dark Skies Association people?
I'll let Katherine handle that.
We did have a meeting with them, but I want to make sure that we reflect all the information
that they gave us from the idea that was the local representative for the idea that we
met with.
Okay, well, that's, that's, you know, that sounds like a good thing.
Just I thought I heard you say that they recommend 4,000.
And every time I look, I see that they represent that they recommend 3000 Kelvins or less.
So, you know, I'm trying to understand where the disc like this, I get the text dot recommends
4000, but I, but the only thing I hear about why that is, is because that's what they always
do.
So I don't know that that's necessarily the right thing.
Just as a comment to that, it's only the major third fairs major and minor third fairs that
have the 4000 Kelvin.
And that that is going to the tech shot standard in the residential areas we are at 3000 Kelvin.
And those are the ones that we predominantly dim down even further.
Now that doesn't change the light temperature, but it does change the amount of lumens coming
out of life.
And the 4000 on the main thoroughfares that's with the Cobra heads where it's all pointing
down.
Yes, and all the Cobra heads we have are called you zero up light zero so they are dark sky
compliance and the brand that we bought is a is associated with the IDA and got their
certificate of dark sky.
That's great.
I appreciate that.
I'll listen to some other questions and I might think of some more.
Thank you.
Okay.
Questions for staff.
Councilmember armature.
Yeah, so first, I just want to state what I really like about this and then some questions
about additional measures I really like the reduction in residential areas to 3000 Kelvin
as recommended by dark skies.
I really like this 60% you know maximum dimming to 60% maximum.
That's really great.
I don't quite understand, you know, why we're not reducing it across the board if to 3000.
If the intention is to, you know, have have the to do the least harm as far as birds and
humans are concerned and also to to help humans in terms of public safety, you know, it's
my understanding that that 3000 Kelvins is fine for thoroughfares and parks.
So I was wondering if you could speak to what why we're not going to 3000 across the board
and thoroughfares parks and and even looking into putting something into our codes for
a non DME lighting to have the maximum effect for birds people and the environment and public
safety.
So if someone could speak to that, I would love to know and Jerry Jerry, let me let me
preface that with obviously there's a policy decision to be made there by this body, right?
So not asking you to delve into that but if there's something in the numbers from a kind
of use or data perspective, then by all means, but the policy decision sits with us.
We have to give you direction in that regard, but from a data standpoint, if there's stuff
that you can add to that three versus four, etc. by all means, well, the 4000 is used
because that's what thoroughfare that's what textile requires.
And so that's why we started using the 4000.
We did we do know that that is probably a little bit warmer than what we want inside
of residential and that's why we went down to the 3000 in the residential areas.
So again, the major minor thoroughfares or 4000 and that's mainly because of text out
requirements and then the 3000 in the residential areas.
Okay, yeah, go ahead.
Yeah, follow up question to that.
So I've heard that it's a text out of recommendation.
I've also heard it's a text out requirements as it a requirement or just their the recommendation
Let me let me ask Aaron if you could speak to that.
But my understanding is legally, if we go off on our own as a city and don't follow
the state's guidelines that makes us liable for winging it basically and we would because
it exposes us to litigation because we didn't meet their standard.
But correct me where I'm wrong.
It can certainly be used against the city, as you said, where we you know, departed from
the guidelines, whether they're ultimately successful is a different story.
But yes, that would could serve as a basis for the complaint.
Okay, so I would love just an answer to my question about so I understand that it's text
out guidelines.
I'm wondering, you know, is it a requirement?
And what are the consequences on paper?
I understand what you're saying they could be they could complain that we're not following
their guidelines.
But it which is it a recommendation or a requirement?
That's what I would like to know.
Yeah, so I think what text out actually has is a range they've got like 3800 Kelvin up
to 4100 Kelvin.
Those I you can't find a 3800 Kelvin or I haven't been able to find a 3800 Kelvin light
and 4000 seems to be the most readily available that's within that range.
So that's why we chose the 4000 Okay, thank you.
And then can you speak to as far as parks go?
That is Denton parks and other DME lights that are not in residential areas?
Can you speak to why 4000 Kelvin for those that are not a text out consideration?
No, ma'am, I don't have any anything to give you on the parks using 4000.
This is Sarah, Councilmember Armitter, I will tell you that the reason some of the parks
use a little stronger wattage is for, quite frankly, safety purposes, particularly in
parks where people are heavily using using the park.
So they try to do their best to balance it from lighter and softer lights, but in some
areas where there's a lot of activity, and there seems to be a lot of use, particularly
sometimes after hours, the lighting is a little bit higher.
Thank you, I would I would encourage and I'd be happy to share this.
I've learned a lot from dark skies as far as public safety and and lighting goes and
they show illustrations of how a very bright you know 4000 Kelvin glaring light in a in
a park or even in an alleyway can be so bright that it can cast shadows that make it hard
to make out people and it can also make as you know we've all had that experience of
driving at night and someone's got their brights on and it's hard to see precisely because
it is so bright.
I would be curious to see what staff would have to say regarding the you know relative
safety of 3000 Kelvins versus 4000 there's an argument to be made and dark sky makes
it that it's actually safer in these kinds of areas to go a little lower still illuminating
yet it's lower we're happy to look at it if you'll send it our way.
Okay, wonderful I'll do that right now. Any other questions for staff. Council member
Ryan then Mayor Pro Tem Davis.
Jerry, have we done any light meter testing on any of this kind of maybe go out with a
meter before we change it out then go out after it's been changed to the new one and
maybe checking to see if that 60% is is actually dimming to a 60% level or because I know on
LED dimming it's a lot of times you have to get much lower before you even start seeing
any changes in that light.
We did have a test case where we changed one of the high pressure sodium post tops out
to an LED post out and took measurements at that location. The only caveat with that is
the high pressure sodium was an aged one so it all had some age associated with the light
diminish and dirt and everything else. But based upon our conversations and the folks
that know how to do the calculations. Everything seemed to appear to be about the same from
that standpoint. You know if Council wants I can show what are called the lighting patterns
and and show that for the high pressure sodium the LED that the light is pretty much dispersed
at the same levels no matter which one you use whether it's the high pressure sodium
or the LED.
Okay, any other questions Council Member Ryan?
No, I just wanted to make sure that because that way we can kind of verify and I'm glad
to see that we've already done that testing that we're verifying that the amount of light
emitted now has not necessarily increased from what it was prior to this and that's
why we're dimming to 60 percent is to try and achieve that same light level.
Okay, thank you. Mayor Pro Tem Davis.
Thank you Mayor. I'm just trying to be clear on something because we've kind of said you
know Dark Sky Association says this says that if I understand it correctly the Dark Sky
Association according to the slide we have exempts thoroughfares. I mean public safety
lighting on your streets is exempt from what they're trying to do. The Bird City criteria
that's got a little more peculiarly particularity to it. They don't want the blue light all
those sorts of things but International Dark Sky they just flat out exempt streetlights
and they're talking more about off-street lighting parks buildings folks turn off your
porch lights that kind of stuff. Am I correct there?
Yes sir.
Okay, very good. I just want to go out there and say I err on the side of public safety.
I think that there's a middle ground to be struck. I think we can do it and I think this
is a good way forward but if there's going to be if we're going to err one way or the
other I think we err on the side of public safety and if we want more information about
well why does TxDOT say public safety requires x y and z well let's try to find it but if
we have criteria manuals we have design standards if we have TxDOT telling us here's the way
you ought to do a road to be safe then that's where I come down on it if our public safety
personnel say you know our parks need to have you know such and such a level of illumination
that's how I'm going to come down on it. I do have another question about the I guess
they're called in the slide decorative post top so the the ones that we started a partnership
with historic Denton years ago we started putting those in downtown we've been using
them all over the place is it being proposed that we go and replace what is that 460 of
those that we obtained at some cost to become dark sky compliant. I believe the play would
be to leave the ones that we have in place in place and then as time goes on if the council
chooses to use a different luminaire then we'll replace those plus we also have several
of them several hundred of them in the warehouse so we'd want to use that inventory up but
if the council decides to use a true use zero light which there are some available then
we could start to phase those in and purchase those and once we use up the inventory of
the glass dome ones we can start using the use zero lights and those use your decorative
ones are they like the type of street light that has some kind of shield on top as opposed
to like a glass finial on the top. Yeah, I'm Catherine would you show the last
slide. Okay, so this is the proposal or the things that we had put out there and identified
the light on your left the headco hide Park that is the light that we purchase currently
the lumic Metro scape and headco Hagerstown are both lights that kind of look the same
but they are both use zero so if the council you know decided that they want to move from
the hide co to one of these other two then you know certainly give us that direction
and we can do that. Those are those are both nice looking options
but the frustrating aspect of it to me is that part of the aim with these new light
fixtures that we have a whole bunch of them in the warehouse and we have a whole bunch
of them out on the street was uniformity in some of our public spaces you know along hickory
street in our historic district. So, those are good options but the idea of retrofitting
what we already have over a number of years or then just having a whole new species of
light fixture out there is kind of frustrating. There is one option that the manufacturers
come up with if I could show you guys possibly that could help with this let me go get my
show and tell item see if I can see that. What that is is basically a shield that they'll
take the head off and they'll put that shield down on top of it so it doesn't prevent all
the light from going up but it does keep a good amount of the light from going up so
you get a little bit of a better up light situation out of it but you can keep the look
of the glass globes that we have now out there by doing this. These are relatively inexpensive
they're a hundred dollars each and that could certainly be an option that we could entertain.
Okay any other questions Mayor Pro Tem. Last one and I just might have missed it if you
said it but what is the temperature of the light in those decorative lamp posts. Those
are all going to be three thousand. Thanks. Okay let me work around to the first round
of questions. Any other questions for staff? Okay seeing none Council Member Melton then
Council Member Armitage. Thank you. There's a lot of variables and some are over space
some are over time. So you know clearly we want people to be able to drive safely we
want we want people to be able to be out in public safely at night and we also don't want
to kill off the birds that kill off the pests and you know are related to the food supply
and everything else. My observation is that we seem to be trying to reinvent the wheel
when just about every major city in Texas has gone through this already and is either
part of the lights out program or dark skies and you know I mean have we have we reached
out to to list all those variables and they all have historic areas too. Have we reached
out to kind of benchmark what have the people been working on this longer than we have how
have they solved it. You know let's say 10 major cities in Texas. I have not no. I'd
be interested in doing a little bit of benchmarking here and you know yeah we do have to balance
you know all those concerns and I think we have to find what the differences are between
unlit, poorly lit, well lit, and brightly lit. So you may not need to be brightly lit
to achieve traffic safety, personal safety, you may need to be you may need to be well
lit but I can't imagine that it's up to the city of Denton to figure out this these sort
of things. I mean we're just not the first people to work on it. Okay Councilor Armitage.
Yes so first of all I wanted to ask as far as the Bird City element of this discussion
goes, is the plan for this to go forward to this new sustainability committee? That would
be one element of it. The application will actually open in May so we'll see what this
year's requirements are and then we can take that forward. Excellent great. I would hope
hope that that goes forward to that committee once those recommendations are out and it's
due in December is that correct? That's correct. Yeah so that seems like plenty of time you
know for that committee to to work on that. So I so I would encourage that you know that
whatever we decide whatever direction gets given to staff today that we kind of keep
that in mind that the Bird City Bird City decisions made by sustainable or recommendations rather
made by sustainability committee could really open this up. Let's see I want to also ask
if there's been any consideration to reducing the number of lights that we have around town
not just arbitrarily but you know a reassessment with both you know dark skies and Bird City
recommendations in mind and also public safety from a dark skies perspective to see if there
are any lights that we have that really are not serving public safety or anyone. And I
believe that the study that DME is going to be working on will address that. Excellent
and what's the timeline on that or imagine projected timeline around how long will that
take because that that sounds like a big job looking at all the lights citywide. So the
plan right now is to probably within the next month or so we're going to be coming to the
council to get approval for the contract with the engineering firm to perform the study.
Four months for them to basically identify test neighborhoods and get the lights up and
have some questions and answers from the citizens as far as what they think is appropriate lighting
for didn't and then six months will after that will start to evaluate the neighborhoods
to find out how they fit with what the recommendation is. So you know about another year to have
that finalized. And during that time of course the sustainability committee will meet so
I could imagine some good intersection there. Sorry Tony go on. Yeah mayor this is Tony
Puentes. I just want to remind the council if you remember there was a number of pedestrian
accidents that had occurred a couple years ago that really kind of brought this to the
forefront as well as the fact that our engineering department at the time had done a couple of
studies on some areas mainly the thoroughfares that really stated that that we had poorly
lit areas and a lot of dark spots and that's really what was born and what got us here
in addition to that if you recall there was a bond blue ribbon committee that also looked
at potentially funding some of this and found that really it was going to take a lot of
money and so DME kind of took this on as a project to primarily focus in on residential
areas and I think Jerry's exactly right that's why we're looking at bringing on this firm
to help us kind of identify those poorly and underlit areas across the community primarily
in the residential area but I will tell you I think just based on what we've seen in the
last several years and certainly the accidents across the city I could probably tell you
that that we probably don't have any over lit areas they're they're mainly going to
be underlit and so again I just want to give you a little bit of that context just to kind
of you know kind of bring this back to to kind of the focus of today and that's really
a public safety concern with underlit areas okay thank you any other questions for staff
before I go back to you for round three is there anyone else seeing none counselor Melter
yeah just to you know chip in on the underlit side of the multivariate equation here back
when I was working on the oak oak gateway plan that was a persistent concern you heard
was for pedestrian lighting people don't like to you know walk home if you think about places
where people walk late at night they need to be well lit and obviously you don't need
to send light to Alpha Centauri that doesn't help anyone thanks okay so we need to give
some direction so from my perspective just a quick question Jerry so what help me understand
the difference right in the the let me get my terms correct the the fixtures that what
do you call it the for the reduced zero light you know the dark sky post hop there you go
so what's the difference in that being in place and not what is the illumination difference
if you will the upward light well again all the lights that we put in the new the Cobra
heads which are I'm pretty sure you guys are familiar with them they're basically the steel
light that kind of goes out over the deal again those are all you zero so they don't
put light up at all now prior to that when we had the metal halide lights those were
also you zero okay so the metal halides and and these have never really put light up into
the sky you know whenever whenever the choice was made to use the glass globes that we have
for the antique ones but those do put it up in the sky and the LEDs are no different they
do put light up into the sky so as we mentioned I mean there's a few options we could do we
could you know we can use this little shield to help reduce some of that or you can go
to a totally different light well but help help me understand that right where you picked
up so that the the decorative globe how much light is it casting up do you know or have
we measured that no so we haven't measured the light going up out of it there's a factor
there's a what's called the bug factor and so the g stands for glare u stands for up
light and the up light for those are let me find that here so are you fives it used for
you fours for the glass globe ones so that that's on the higher end of the scale of the
amount of light that it puts up okay and do we know how much the the i'm gonna say filter
that you showed that that sample do we know what that brings it down to by chance what
is the effect they haven't really finished any calculations on it but i believe when
they we were talking to them they said it could take it down to like a u4 u3 okay okay
and and then the other u0 is exactly that there's it no light right okay got it so then
to to shape the discussion so that we can give you direction correct me where i'm wrong
kathryn but the staff's recommending what's on slide six there if everyone draw everyone's
attention to it if you're not looking at it identify dark skylight compliant pole fixtures
uh address dimming shields as requested and and or install the um um and dim at 60 right
so so it's b and c kind of go together help me understand make sure i'm tracking that
right okay okay uh and so it's address dimming and shielding um or install the install them
dimmed at 60 max brightness in residential areas uh and and as to council member ryan's
question that would give us kind of hold the line if we will as far as the illumination
and it meets the text out standards um okay um so any other questions for staff if not
we'll we'll get ready to give direction and move forward so any other questions for staff
seeing none uh so i'll start with you mayor pro tem you've you've said erin on the side
of public safety i think um uh tony's point is valid we have had uh some some accidents
there that kind of dovetails into your concern uh anything you want to add uh or are you
are you okay with staff's recommendation because it's both right there's a safety component
and then you you did mention uh the kind of having to switch out the the post hops was
a is less than great so where do you fall on that yeah so i'm um i'm on board with the
staff recommendation i think they framed it well with those three a b and c kind of the
different things to think about with going i'm okay with going forward with the led uh
retrofit i don't think the council is well positioned to make public safety decisions
i think our traffic engineers are in the best position to tell us our public safety professionals
are the ones who will tell us whether our light is safe or not um so i like the balance
that the staff has struck and they've figured out a way to go forward with the retrofit
still saving us a bunch of money on uh these leds in the long run in a way that complies
with what we're trying to do um i i am really hesitant to switch to another uh pull top
but i don't think those shields are really going to do the job even at 100 bucks pop
only i don't think they're really going to do the job we want them to do and they're
i can't imagine they're going to look very good up there um i i don't know if there's
a way to um to switch to a new pull top fixture that is also compatible with the poles we
have in place you know one of those things breaks we can flip out the switch out the
top as opposed to the whole fix the whole pole and standard and everything um but uh
and then i don't understand be exactly address dimming and shielding as requested if that
means as requested by the council or as requested by when residents come uh you know put something
and engaged in and come out and dim my street light but that that would be my preference
that uh that they address the dimming as requested by the resident not the city council um and
then c i think would be completely dependent on resident input in the dme survey you know
as they go out there and and look and see what we need um i i don't want to give any
council direction on c i think that's dependent on things outside of the council okay uh so
other other direction and i'll pull it together and summarize it but other direction let me
let me summarize what i heard from mayor pro tem to to kind of start the the process so
uh kind of hesitant on uh staff's recommendation a would want to explore that further is what
i heard to understand better options for a top that fits the existing pole then uh with
b and c it would be uh a set have the have it installed as we have been and then as requests
come in for dimming address it at that point versus a preset at 60 is what i heard is did
i hear you right yeah i mean unless dme runs into a situation where every single one of
them needs to be i mean maybe we just in our standard procedure we realize that we need
to start at 60 instead of the 100% and we may be there just based on the feedback we've
gotten from from folks who who wanted uh we just have a large number of folks want their
street lights dimmed outside their houses so okay got it i just rather leave that to
staff thank you councillor meltzer
yeah i'm really uh not uh supportive of the idea of planning to error i i want us to get
it right so rather to err on one side error another side let's get it right and i don't
think we have enough information to get it right and i would at least like us to you
know before totally uh you know chiseling this in concrete uh to get the information
i discussed before from the major cities in texas that also have to deal with bird migrations
that you know that uh uh that also have public safety and traffic safety and text out all
the issues every single issue we've discussed they have too uh let's at least see if there's
some smart ideas out there uh and uh not error okay well we're gonna make we're gonna give
direction today so if you that's the direction i give today that's the direction i give today
you just i don't disagree with your direction if you would have let me finish the end of the
sentence would have said uh your direction right now is to do more studying and not to act on anything
i guess it would be just to postpone this action and so i'm just trying to find a consensus so
uh i'm trying to make sure i heard you before you cut me off and and uh and make sure you're
accounted for and and i'm repeating back to you what i'm hearing so if i'm hearing something
wrong i would ask you to correct me otherwise i'll put you in that bucket of postpone and move forward
well i think okay i think my words speak for themselves certainly and i agree okay
any council member armature uh yeah so as far as my direction goes i want to underscore
i really love all of staff's recommendations i i think they're all excellent and uh i i see it as
an excellent beginning uh including the new light fixtures the downward facing fixtures if we really
want to solve this problem and i i appreciate seeing that option with the shield um but as you
mentioned um it you know mitigates some of the the upward light but it doesn't take care of all of it
so i want to go completely with staff recommendations um i want the uh additional
uh bird city uh factors that uh overlap with with this discussion to go forward to the sustainability
committee because that could so easily just build on uh what's happening here it doesn't contradict
anything here it just builds on it uh it would or rather would expand on it uh so i think that's
really important um and you know finally i would like uh for the sustainability committee to look
into uh uh non-dme lights and policies for and i think that that would kind of happen inevitably
when we're talking about bird city but looking at our you know looking at parks and thoroughfares
uh non-dme lights hmos uh i'm sorry hoa's hoa's uh and um you know to see uh what can be done and
once we start asking questions about that i tried to ask questions a little earlier in this conversation
about non-dme lights that involves looking at our codes and kind of going to a uh a code revision
so i would be happy you know to have sustainability take that up obviously you know we don't have have
the time to do that here but at some point if we're going to start talking about bird city and
stepping it up even beyond what staff recommends for today we're going to have to start looking at
the code so i i look forward to that that conversation and i hope it goes to sustainability
okay uh any other any other feedback councilman ryan well i agree with the staff recommendations
and i think uh councilmember armator's concerns are actually addressed in a because we're talking
about uh specifying in the dentin development code what types of light fixtures are used and
so that's not only the city itself but also uh anyone that's any developer that's putting in
new subdivisions or new areas so i'm comfortable with the recommendations okay uh anyone else
so councilmember johnson i'm in agreement with staff and recommendations as well but i also
as with councilman melsler i would like to have a lot more information okay got it
councilmember baker any thoughts
now i'll go along with what this uh staff is proposing okay all right got it okay so staff
here here's my notes uh so i have that obviously there's uh those you have a majority that supports
staff recommendations uh what i also heard outside of that is a request maybe an isr format
what other cities are doing uh around uh this issue uh and at least that starts a conversation
to then give us something to react to uh then i also heard a connectivity with uh the bird city
kind of component and and uh taking that also to the sustainability this conversation to the
sustainability committee and those would take whatever form you would think and again
the bird city thing may be an email to say hey here's what we're planning and get a reaction
and so that also could be a a friday report and then it gets out on the public website that way
as well and what i'm hearing is a defer to staff on the safety component and and that would be the
justification for the lighting as well as dme's experience on the dimming that sort of thing just
kind of what they're hearing and bring that back and then the only thing that i did not no one else
expressed interest for is the policy discussion and that going before the sustainability committee
so if that that's in the minority so if there's a majority of people that want that to happen
i'd need to hear hear that councilman melzer yeah i would absolutely support that okay anyone else
okay so that's in the minority um on that that just that point about the policy discussion
so that's that's the uh that's my summary um and then obviously you have your own notes but that's
what i have so uh councilman melzer uh yeah so if if you could just clarify i'm a little confused
about you know what's the difference between the bird city discussion and the policy discussion
because bird city if that goes to sustainability it's going to involve policy discussion and it's
going to involve codes so can you explain just you know how you're defining this difference no
no i mean you you broke them out so if you could you you mentioned them separately so i don't i
can't speak to why you mentioned them separately but that's just oh okay well so the reason why is
just uh because i i i was just acknowledging that it's going to have to come to you know more
extensive code updates than we're talking about here uh it but anyway so it is if if if the
sustainability committee is going to be discussing bird city those policy discussions about updating
the codes will be part and parcel of that discussion it would have to be all right i would
then i'll just take your word for it but uh i i don't i don't know i'm ignorant to how that that
that's not a process i'm that intimately familiar with if you believe it to be so then those things
will be captured in that and staff has their notes and so they'll be able to act upon that as well so
uh any other comments for staff anything that i missed mayor pro tem davis yeah just real quickly
i want it to be clear that the cobra head lights that we've been talking about this whole time
are u0 and uh and they are they've been dark sky compliant the whole time so when we pick this back
up and move forward cautiously like we're talking about doing like the staff recommendation is
it is being cognizant of the issues that were raised we hit pause to examine the issues we did
and we're now addressing the issues i just want that to be very very clear for everyone out there
the other question is um i'm not sure that we decided on 1a if we gave adequate direction and
maybe jerry can tell me if i'm i'm wrong if they've got enough direction there did we need to pick out
a new uh a new uh decorative fixture did we need to give direction on that or uh are we kind of
tabling that discussion um and while i'm kind of on the subject of tabling discussions there's no
reason we can't advance on both fronts you find out what other cities are doing and at the same
time keep installing our dark sky compliant fixtures okay jerry do you want to speak to
1a if you have direction you need or katherine either one those provided those were provided
as options if the council so chooses for us to look for additional um options as far as u0 pure
u0 post hops we'll be born happy to do that so if that's the direction you want to give us
then we could you know do that and come back to you yeah i think that's what i heard is if there's
something that fits on the existing poles that we don't have to change it out uh let's explore that
but uh so correct me where i'm wrong if if i'm repeating that incorrectly no sir that's that's
what i understand um again the ones that we showed in the presentation are pure u0 um but but they
have a different look than what we're um what we presently put in into the city they they do have
a top on top on them versus the clear glass globe right right um okay but do they i guess i guess to
mayor protem's point just and if i could adopt it for a second will those new tops fit on the
existing poles yes okay all right got it uh uh so mayor hudspeth yes yeah this is chris lutrik uh
just one thing i wanted to address for uh mayor protem is the uniformity is important so in looking
forward we have some existing lights that we would we would choose to not enter mix a new light
fixture next to one of the old ones so we would have the ability maybe looking forward with some
of our larger subdivisions that are planned to keep them uniform with a new fixture and these
fixtures that while they're interchangeable when the uh when the the fixture burns out you replace
the entire fixture so that's kind of what uh jerry was talking about in the future as these
lights start to burn out we could then upgrade them at that point to any uz fixture fixture that
the council uh could select so i just sorry i didn't want to interrupt but just throw that out
there okay that's helpful um councillor melter then council member armature uh yeah a couple
of points um first of all as we're balancing many different objectives i i do agree that you kind of
miss the whole point of doing a historic type light if you do it in a way that's not uniform
in a block so uh you know i think looking for u0 options that can the whole blocks can be treated
with it's probably the way to go and i wish i liked that retrofit but i don't think it i don't
think it achieves the objectives but maybe something else will come up that will uh and then i also want
to express uh agreement with the sentiment entirely that we can move forward with the retrofit while we
gather information on the right way to set it the beauty part uh you know one of the main beauty
parts to me you know of the switched leds is the granularity uh and and and and the central
control over it so that we can move toward a kind of smart city approach that we know okay bird
migrations coming and we're going to affect certain areas different ways and then it goes back
and it's just going to make uh you know make our ability to do policy and to enact it
so much better so i agree with that sentiment okay councilmember armature i will i will pass on that
question i was going to ask all right so uh jerry catherine you have everything you need from us
great great thank you very much great presentation thank you for the show and tell component jerry
we can always count on you yeah have a good day okay so that'll take us to uh 3b which is id 21617
receive a report hold discussion and give staff direction regarding the hinkle roundabout
there we have daniel kramer here as well as uh becky devaney okay
they bring it on
yes they should be bringing it up i'm looking to see
there they are there he is there he is danie yes sorry we had to play musical chairs over that's
all right okay afternoon mayor council my name is daniel kramer deputy director of operations
public works and we're going to talk about the hinkle mimosa roundabout a little background
on the purpose and some of the background on the project roundabouts in general are used to slow
down vehicular movements and act as a traffic calming device they do help with accident
severity to your typical four-way maintenance costs are reduced compared to normal signalized
intersections and also it keeps the traffic moving so there's less vehicle delays as a regular
four-way stop or an intersection signalized intersection hinkle roundabout itself was added
by a change order to the magnolia drainage phase two project in early 2019 currently there's some
side work sidewalk work going on that is planned to be completed by june of 2021 we've had a few
weather delays and some concrete shortages that we've had come up but we're still looking to be
completed by june and also on the east side sorry west side of hinkle fireside development
has been working to put a their sidewalk in on their side of hinkle also so we've received a
few concerns from citizens about the hinkle roundabout and they are mainly about yielding
at the roundabout can be confusing for some of the motors since it's unfamiliar of a roundup of a
traffic intersection especially here in denton also emergency vehicles cannot traverse this specific
roundabout since it is a mini roundabout but that is per design and the the center curb is is lowered
in a drive-over curb to assist with that so larger vehicles can drive over that also concerns from
the bicycle and pedestrian community about navigation concerns and lack of continuation
of the bicycle lanes in the area so in total we received two engaged denton requests two resident
requests that were forwarded from council members and two calls for to the police department about
the roundabout so this is just a picture of current status of the roundabout this is on the
west side on the fireside development on the southbound lane as you can see here the on the
right is the bike lane and this is the complaint that the bicyclists have about the lane just
ending right here at the end and we'll be discussing that here a little bit more continuation so what
we're doing to remedy that issue is there's actually here's where you saw it right here but
this is the bike lane will be continuing and as part of this the bike lane will continue and the
bicyclists will actually ride on the sidewalk around the roundabout and then cross over and
continue on to the the bike lane on the south side over here now that is on the west side on the
fireside now on the east side northbound lane there are a few issues that are that are hindering
us from completing this sidewalk and we do have some options to consider by fixing this sidewalk
for the pedestrian and bicycles one as you can see there is a tree that's right here and during
construction this was the original plan to put this sidewalk but from concerns of the residents
we have held off on the sidewalk because of the tree would have to be removed to complete the
sidewalk if we can remove the tree we can continue the sidewalk around and it will cross
and connect with this bike lane and we estimate that's going to be about $25,000 to complete this
side and get that straight through now we've heard a couple different issues on the recommendations
for the roundabout so what we ended up doing is doing a photometric study and those results the
study was completed we got the results on march 24th and some of the recommendations from the study
was to add reflective pavement markings on the median noses to make them more visible
some led solar rays pavement markers some additional light pole light poles and upgrade
the current lighting in the area and then also complete the sidewalk connectivity on the east
side on mimosa side what they wanted to do is look at modifying the curb and median geometry
and i'll talk a little bit about that on the the next slide on what it was going to look like for
that so as we estimate all these upgrades are going to look about $47,000 to complete
these are some of the markings that we're going to put on the curb medium that we can install
these will actually reflect as you come up to it and we'll put these around the center
and also on the islands in the middle of the road and these can be driven over and are designed to
do that as you can see on the left of your screen the outside one of the issues that was brought up
in the study is where the road is narrowed right there you can see in the red circle there's
actually cars that were parked really close to that allowing it making it harder to be able to
get in and out to enter and exit the roundabout there so their suggestion was to pull the curb
farther out in that area to push the parked cars farther back to make sure that you can easily get
in and out of the roundabout there during this look we also looked at removing the roundabout
and some potential concerns of that is you know vehicles are required to come to complete stop if
this is returned to a four-way stop which will actually cause some traffic delays in the area
stop signs are not always observed by motorists at all times and also there is a confusion of
the right-of-way to proceed protocol at four-way stops and we currently have have about a hundred
and thirty seven thousand dollars that have been incurred for the install of the roundabout there
are some potential benefits to remove we got the installation of a typical four-way intersection
with stop signs which is familiar to motorists more than a roundabout at least in this area
and there is a small reduction in maintenance costs of the striping and signage for that on
those we do estimate about a hundred and forty thousand dollars to remove the roundabout and
install back to a four-way stop for staff recommendations staff recommends maintaining
the existing roundabout addressing the sidewalk and bicycle connectivity on the east side of hinkle
and making the upgrades recommended by the photometric study we will also work with dme
as directed from the presentation earlier and about the street lighting to address all the
the safety and the mitigation for potential impacts to additional lighting for the birds
or any other wildlife and we will also work with public works we also work with public fairs
excuse me to enhance the public outreach and public education to help people safely navigate
roundabouts so with that i'll bring down the presentation and if anybody's got any questions
okay questions for staff
councilmember armature
so first of all i love uh the the recommendations i had just one question um that i'm not quite sure
about as far as the recommendations go uh among the recommendations is listed bike connectivity
um and does the connectivity mean uh the uh street then sidewalk then street or does it mean
consistent street and doing something about that tree and the sidewalk i just want to make sure
exactly what that means so what what that means in our recommendation is actually to look at removing
removing the tree on the northbound side and connecting the sidewalk which also allow
pedestrians and bicyclists to have a safe route to um cross over the roundabout and continue on
okay good that's that's what i thought that's that's what connectivity means to me i just
wanted to be sure um because i saw that with the you know going to the sidewalk and then going back
um is is that a tree you know that can be and maybe the answer is not known but that you know
that could be replanted elsewhere um or is there any way i take it the answer is no but i always
uh you know like to ask in a situation like this where um you know it might require there it might
lead to a right of way issue you know where a bike trail could go around the tree uh and and then you
know kind of pushing the sidewalk uh further uh into that that area or is that just not possible
there there is an option to acquire extra right of way to go around the tree but we have had our
arborist look at the tree and it is a declining tree um so it it is within the next few years we
will probably the tree won't will die of natural causes with some of the issues that it has so it
would be better to just go ahead and take it out and continue the sidewalk and the original design
path okay well if if that's the case if the tree is in such bad shape then yeah i would say just
move the tree uh that take out the tree so i i do like all of staff's recommendations and thanks so
much and and can can you speak to when the timeline would be um when this the imagined
completion would be with the lights uh and the other improvements uh the actual um curb markings
we the curb reflectors we do have those in stock uh currently so we can get those those out in the
next few weeks uh whether dependent on those uh we will be working with um the contractor to look at
the the recommendations for the for extending the curb and we still have to look at some funding
options and verify some funding for the the sidewalk portions on that but if if everything
falls through in the right i mean if everything falls in place it should not take um long at all
to get going as long as we get the recommendation here from council excellent thank you okay thank
you uh other questions for staff uh mayor pro tim davis thank you mayor so you kind of and i
often would refer to this as a mini roundabout a little while ago and obviously we've got traffic
circles big huge things roundabouts are smaller and obviously this one is quite a bit different
than our roundabout over on bonnie bray it's smaller even than our our shady oaks roundabout
um do we have any more roundabouts of this size uh slated uh or planned in the city of denton right
now this kind of mini roundabout um i would have to ask becky to uh chime in on this as far as
as far as i know i do not know of any more that are planned in the area as this size um but if
there's any more on the development side becky might have a little bit more information on that
thank you daniel and mayor pro tim i'm not aware of any roundabout similar to this configuration
and i think that staff takes several lessons learned from this type of roundabout installation
and would probably suggest that it's not going to be a recommendation that we would make in the
future sir thank you i just want to make sure that people know watching that there's a difference
in roundabouts when we say roundabouts and how they work in one way they may not be best for
every application especially this one and uh and then of course remind folks that this was installed
at uh resident request be careful what you ask for um when you're looking for your speed mitigation
all those kind of things that some options are actually better than others okay and while i have
you mayor pro tem you ready to give direction or are you still all right i'm i apologize for not
doing that i uh i'm good with the staff recommendations it makes a bad situation
better um i'm glad you figure out a way around some of the utility poles and things for those
bike lanes um you're you're doing the absolute best you can with with what you have thank you
got it councillor melzer yeah there were uh two uh dates with big meeting rooms filled with area
residents were quite upset about the idea of people cutting across magnolia uh easily and they were
uh i just never hear from those people anymore uh but but i i'm uh supportive of the staff
recommendations i also wanted to ask whether he gave any thought to one that we kind of iterated to
and mobility which is the idea of uh maybe some kind of a rumble strip as you approach something
that's not visual you know to just say oh something's coming up uh that's different does that make any
sense or considered or rejected or what was your thought on that yes sir we we still haven't um
100 figured out whether we were going to go with that or not we were going to have some more
discussions with traffic engineering and verify a couple more options on that but that is still
uh still an option we are going to put up some warning signs also to make sure that there are
plenty up there to show that but that isn't our thing that we are still looking at haven't decided
on on that one okay great uh i mean i'm glad it's still you know potentially something that might be
helpful and i also recall council member ryan talking about whether the lighting on the upper
perimeter uh could be sort of motion sensitive you know uh turn on when vehicles are approaching
so that do you think it's a good idea bad idea is it complicated to execute it's uh that is an option
one of the things that we'll notice is also on the photometric study it was a suggestion that we
trim back the the tree as part of that and with uh removing that to put in the sidewalk that will
help uh some more lighting in the area without having to add any extra lights or anything because
i did cast a shadow on it um these um the the reflectors that we are putting on um those that
actually do not have light the the small ones that we're that we're looking at is also just uh
kind of be right at the street level and stuff so should not have that but if we do have some more
issues we can come back and discuss some of those going forward yeah okay i i i think the
reflectors on the perimeter are sort of the most to the point of the issue of the visibility of
the roundabout itself i i mean my complete layperson's observation as i said mobility is
that it's not an issue of ambient light or overhead light it's this thing that's at a level it's lower
than you expect to be looking so i think uh the reflectors will help a lot and the connectivity on
the um you know for the bikes it's a separate issue that i'm glad we'll be able to address
okay any other questions for staff council member ryan well just for clarification what i was talking
about being motion sensitive is if we put warning signs as you're approaching the roundabout uh
similar to we to what we have on the curves down on hickory creek road where those big curves
are just something that when somebody's approaching that light comes on and it lets them know something's
about to happen okay um council member johnson
i have a couple of questions is this a completed project or is this a project that we're revamping
in the middle of the process while this has already been laid out
no ma'am this is this is actually a completed project uh the only thing that um the roundabout
has been open since um when was that end of uh july of uh last year uh the only thing that
uh some of the sidewalks on the west side were not completed at that point which are being completed
now and then with this direction um from here we can go as to whether or not to complete
uh the east side of the road for sidewalks okay any any other questions councilor johnson i didn't
okay miss city city manager do you have something
no just was going to say i think that a lot of it council member johnson spurred from um our own
internal uh staff with fire trucks and and solid waste trucks experiencing some issues but also
some other cars that were going through and not around and then um just to be real honest and
transparent through uh getting some information i think and requests from our mayor pro tem to
look deeper into the sidewalk issue i think um we had to go back and figure out what had been
decided previously uh from a previous staff member and now we have to pick up and finish
out those sidewalks where it may not have been uh handled in the past okay thank you for that
any other questions comments for staff okay from my perspective i think have have we been in contact
with the with the homeowner there at the corner of uh what is that mimosa is that right
the way the tree is yeah mimosa uh no sir not on this um not at this point we had been at the
at the original construction of that but we haven't touched base again with them recently
okay yeah so that would have been my preference uh is that they that homeowner not hear about us
taking out their tree in a live meeting uh just uh uh but if we can go back to to that homeowner
and and see where they fall i'll take your point about the tree not been in great health i take
your point about talking to them earlier in the process but if we could circle back and and kind
of update us on where they fall and what mitigation we need to do there i think it's right to if we
can do two trees to take out the one or i understand it's an easement so if they're if that's another
issue with policy then then i'm happy to have that conversation i just think we need to consider them
having been on the receiving end of of the these type decisions uh with my with my dad's property
it's it's uh it's difficult even though it's in the easement it's it's still a hard conversation to
have uh so if we could i just need to understand that to make sure if there's anything we can do
to go above me on or maybe there's some screening we can do a long hink or something if that fits
within our our policies that'd be great uh other than that i'm okay with uh staff's recommendation
i think that that is a majority of of the council that would support staff's recommendations to move
forward with those uh items you'd you've identified any other notes for staff uh before we move forward
great okay well thank you very much thank you all right that takes us to our last uh work session
item that's uh 3c receive report and hold discussion give staff direction regarding fy 2021
uh budget capital improvement programs rates five-year fiscal forecast for water wastewater
drainage and uh solid waste funds good afternoon mayors city council members nick benson assistant
director finance give me a second to pull the presentation up just my camera a little bit here
all right before we get started i want to tell the council today's conversation we'll talk about
the 1920 fiscal year actuals talk about the fiscal year 2021 year-to-date numbers it will not go into
details detailed discussion regarding fiscal year 2022 and that conversation will come forward to
council in the coming weeks and months so i just want to make sure everybody's clear on that
we'll try to get through this in at least three hours mayor it may take us a little a little while
but we'll get through it as quickly as possible take your time i'm just joking it won't it won't
take three hours but no no problem um so the first presentation is for the water utility uh
really quick what i want to do is go through an overview of the presentation and tell you what's
included um so the first thing we'll talk about those 1920 end of your actuals that i mentioned
we'll look at the 10-year forecast we'll look at the capital improvement plan that's come in
front of you a couple of times for the reimbursement ordinance and the notice of a 10 we'll look at the
cost of service study that was recently completed and we'll have a rate discussion we'll look at
those next steps so for new council members or anybody that's listening live this is the actual
water revenue grouped by different service categories within the water utility what we do
is we do show up by fiscal year so you can show fiscal year 18 19 here in this column
1920 which was the fiscal year that ended last september where we finished that fiscal year
and then in 2021 adopted budget so this is the current budget that we're currently in
but we definitely wanted to show this to everybody that has not seen it before
so for 1920 and you can see we had an adopted budget of resources or revenue 48.1 million
end of year we actually finished the year at 48.3 so we did finish the year a little bit better than
originally included in that budget and 2021 which is the current adopted budget you can see revenue
of 49 million with planned use of reserves the 33.9 million so total resources of 52.9
actual water expenses so in the water utility we do have operational areas that are divided into
different groups the first one being administration utility admin public outreach production
distribution metering lab and miscellaneous i do want to point out the utility admin was divided
between admin and public outreach and fiscal year 2021 so when you see this budget go to zero that
operation was just divided between these two different operational centers so 2021 the adopted
budget has 52.9 million in adopted expenses one thing i do want to state for the city council
members you can see in 2019-20 we did come in below budget and the adopted expenses were 51
million we came in at 49.5 and a lot of this is attributed to staff's reductions during the
covid pandemic really looking at those expenses within their budget and really reducing those
operating expenses based on feedback from the council so definitely want to give staff credit
for those reductions that happened in 1920 this is the 10-year forecast so there's a lot of numbers
on this page i won't go through every single number i will do my best to explain it to the
council members that have not seen it before starting on your left hand side you can see
that adopted fiscal year 1920 budget that we were just talking about and you can see revenue of 48.1
million reserve usage of 2.9 for your total resources of 51.06 moving down the page a little
bit you can see we did have expenses of 51.06 with reserve users at 2.9 so no rate increases
or decreased in fiscal year 1920 for the water utility moving into the current budget of fiscal
year 2021 you can see we had adopted revenues of 49 million a little bit of planned use reserves
about 3.9 for total resources of 52.9 so you can see we had a rate decrease of 2 percent and this
was adopted by both the pb and city council this resulted in about a dollar decrease for the average
residential customer a month moving down the page and i definitely want to point this out to the
city council we'll have a little bit of discussion a little bit later in the presentation regarding
the fund balance and then fiscal so the fund balance works in two ways we have two different
components to it we have a working capital component that you see up here at the top
and so currently if you go over to the 2021 column we have 4.2 million dedicated to working capital
and then operating reserves we have 15.1 so total reserves in the water utility about 19.3
is where we're projecting to finish fiscal year 2021 we do have an impact fee capital reserve
this reserve is currently setting at nine million you do notice that it does go away in fiscal year
2025 and that is intentional and that money is currently planned to fund the design of the lake
ray robert's plane expansion so i definitely want to point that out to the city council members if
you see that number go away a number of working days we do point that out on the pro forma which
currently about 133 days of working capital is but that 19.3 million in reserves represents that you
see here and then most importantly we do have reserve targets in the water utility the minimum
there is a minimum and a maximum we look at it as a percentage and also as working days so the
minimum reserve for the water utility is 120 days also referred to as 33 percent and the maximum
being 180 days and 50 percent so currently in 2021 that minimum be 17.4 the maximum of 26.5
so you can see that 19.3 as well within that reserve one to point that out because we will
talk about that here in a few slides regarding an internal fund balance analysis that the finance
department completed prior to the winter storm event that happened in february the five-year
capital plan for the water utility so these are the capital programs within water we do fund those
in different ways based on what the project is if they are impact fee eligible if it's aid in
construction or if it's vehicle replacement so for example in 2021 you can see we have 35.5 million
in debt issuance plan right here our revenue we had 12.9 so at 12.9 in revenue funding is coming
from operating the operating fund which is funded by rate revenue we had 2.7 million in impact fees
the 265,008 in construction and of course some vehicle replacement so total capital plan for
the water utility is 51.8 total one thing also up here at the top i want to point out is the budget
did include 35.5 million in debt issuance what the finance department does with the operational
department is we really look at the funds that are currently available look at the timing of
these projects so we necessarily don't issue the entire 35.5 million just because it's included in
the budget really take a deep dive into it and see what we need to issue from a cash management
standpoint and from a cash flow standpoint so definitely something to point out them
that is a good thing and a good practice we currently do so a little bit earlier i mentioned
the fund balance analysis this is something that the finance department started during the winter
of 2020 we really wanted to take an in-depth look at the fund balance policies for each of the
utilities and make sure they are adequate if something was to happen in the city we would
have a system failure that we could meet cash demands of that event so we started looking at
surrounding municipalities within the area and you can see those cities calling out in this table
for example you can see lewisville mckinney garland frisco mesquite and then simply in this
column you can see their 1920 operating budget ours being the 51.06 million that we saw earlier
on their pro forma we did go ahead and show wastewater on this slide here a lot of these
cities do have these utilities combined so these operating budgets represent both so we definitely
want to include both for the analysis the minimum reserve targets is what we looked at so currently
the city of dentons water minimum is 33 which does compare to these other cities which is
inadequate the only one being higher is frisco at 58 and then you can see what that minimum reserve
is a percentage would would work out to be so city didn't send about 16.9 million so based on this
and based on you know conversations with the public utility board based on conversations with
the city management team staff is not recommending changes to the water fund balance policy currently
and a continuation of the fund balance analysis in addition to looking at these surrounding
municipalities we did look at several professional organizations that have to do with the water
utility icma several of you are familiar with this is the international city management association
the american water works association also referred to as a wwa the water environment federation which
is wdf and then gfoa the government finance officers association and you can see what those
percentages are down here and you definitely can see the city of dent as well within these ranges
are identified in this table so it's definitely considered and staff's recommendation was a factor
in it so this gets into the second part of the discussion and really that concludes the budgetary
discussion mayor if there's questions i definitely can stop otherwise i'll continue to the right
discussion i think there's 12 or so slides that covers this topic okay um yeah so let's pull it
down and then we'll see if we have any questions let me stop sharing for you here hang on just a
second there you go great all right questions on the presentation thus far do we have any
seeing none perfect great okay yep we can keep going all right so what we're going to get into
now is really a rate discussion and a cost of service discussion and um covering some basic
information then we'll get into the rates theirself um and what they currently are prior to getting
into 2022 budget discussions here in the coming months so basic water rate terms um if you look
at the water rate ordinance or if you look at the budget oftentimes you will see these terms pop up
the first one being a facility charge and this is a fixed fee bill to customers based on their meter
size so the most common meter size the residential customer is three quarters that is a fixed fee
that i'll show you here shortly the second component to the residential water bill the
volume charge this is based on the volume that customers use um it does incentivize water
conservation is billed on a per thousand gallon basis and it's grouped into different tiers so i'll
show that to you here shortly um then of course some acronyms you can see here wr wfh wrw and wcl
won't go through each one of these but these will pop up when you look at their water rate ordinance
so the cost of service and rate design study definitely want to bring this forward to the
city council and the last study and the water utility was updated in 2014 in 2019 in the fall
of 2019 the city contracted with reptilis to update the city's cost of service study for the
water and wastewater utility and that recently was completed so we're here today to present the
results to you um and the published the final published study should be ready within the coming
month month and a half and we fully anticipate to get that out to the city council and isr and the
public utilities board these studies are updated over five years one of the benefits this study we
do get a interactive model that is excel based that city can use to update in the interim years
so we can update between 21 and 25 without going back out to contract with a consultant and the
goal of these studies is to establish cost of service based rates to ensure rates revenue
stability and establish fair and equitable rates among the customer classes i'll review that with
you here shortly also um so this table is a really high level summary of the cost of service study as
i said as that report gets published we'll definitely get that out to you in a formal
staff report and address any questions that you may have so we did group them into different
service categories you can see residential commercial irrigation and fire hydrant and
commercial what you can see is the cost of service the cost of providing service to residential
customers within the city of dent is about 23.7 million and the current revenue of that category
is 21.2 so about a 1.5 million difference under recovery about 6.6 percent um going down the table
a little bit commercial want to point that out the cost of service is about 10.1 million uh current
revenue about 12.7 so currently over recovering about 2.6 or 26.2 percent um irrigation is under
recovering about a million you can see that number in this column here and then fire hydrants is just
about cost of service just under recovering about 31,500 um so this is really interesting
information we definitely wanted to bring this forward um to the city council so you can see in
this table this is the bill distribution per thousand gallons and you can see from one uh to
9,000 you can see how customers fit into those categories so for example 3,000 gallons of usage
a month is just over 50,000 and 4,000 is over 50,000 also what we wanted to show you and really
this proposed table really shouldn't be here so if you can't ignore that but the current one here is
the bill distribution and the consumption distribution so what we wanted to show is you
know our current first tier within the residential water class is zero to 15,000 gallons from there
it goes to 15 to 30,000 gallons and then 30 to 50,000 and really the majority of residential
customers fit into this first tier about 89 percent which makes up about 85 percent of the
bill or the consumption and then going to the second tier you can see eight percent two percent
and one percent so this is a great uh message right people are conserving water they fit into
the first tier which is a great thing exactly how the rates are established to incentivize people to
conserve that water so definitely want to point that out to the city council this is simply a
meter distribution you can see the most common size of a meter for residential customers three
quarter inch currently about 31,800 customers in that classification
this is the commercial distribution a little bit different than residential instead of being
distributed on a thousand gallon basis actually distributed on a 10,000 gallon basis
and so you can see the majority of commercial customers are in between zero and 10,000 gallons
with some of them being a size 20 and 30,000 and just going down from there in commercial the the
most common size of meter just similar to residential is three quarter inch with that
two inch meter being next about a thousand ten so this is the current rates that were adopted by
city council last september these are currently in place and being billed customers so we'll start
up here at the top and talk about those two terms we visited about a couple slides ago the first
one being a facility charge this is that fixed charge based on the meter size so as we just talked
about three quarter inch meter is the most common size for a residential customer that facility
charge is the same throughout the year which is fifteen dollars and 84 cents the second component
of a residential bill is that volumetric rate it is grouped into two different seasonal rates one
being the winter rate and one being the summer rate and you can see the winter rate is billed
from november to april the billing cycle starts november first and then the summer of course is
made october with that billing cycle start may first so here in a few days the summer bill
structure will actually take place looking in the table you can see zero to fifteen thousand is the
first tier for residential customers the current fee is 405 i mean as you can see as you move up in
the summer months the rate increases to incentivize that water conservation in those hot in those warm
months in the winter it's the same throughout but in the summer as people start irrigating those yards
using more water the rate structure does increase as consumption goes up and then irrigation
customers just want to put this on here for reference there are not as many residential
customers with separate irrigation meters but there is a rate that exists within the water utility for
those customers and it's the same principle here in the summer as water you know usage goes up the
rate goes up correspondingly commercial rates i won't walk you back through the terminology again
same thing same concept there's a facility charge and a volume volumetric rate it is built it's a
winter in the summer also for irrigation customers you can see that over here for regular commercial
customers it's not grouped into seasonal rates it's one facility charge that gets billed based on
that meter size and one volume charge that gets billed based on their usage so you can see there
is it does not change throughout the year and it's currently 434 this is something we show the pub
we show the city council every single year as part of the budget and rate discussions and really
comparing ourselves to different municipalities so what you can see on here is several of the
cities i mentioned on our fund balance analysis you can see garland mesquite arlington mckinney
and then here's frisco as noted earlier and you can see the city of dentin is 7814 so just about
in the middle of the graph average residential bill our commercial bill excuse me same thing
here you see the city of dentin in the middle about 451 51 and i should point out that these
are based on the average consumption so for a commercial customer that average consumption is
45 000 gallons so when you see this 451 it's simply taking the facility charge plus the 45
000 gallons of volumetric rate and then coming up with the 451 51 forgot to point that on the
residential so definitely important utility rate changes we put this together last year and definitely
wanted to bring it forward to city council again for people that haven't seen it this is something
that we showed a different rate comparison that shows rate increases and decreases for the several
fiscal years since fiscal year 2015 so you can see starting in fiscal year 2018 staffs really
started taking a hard look at those budgets bringing those conversations forward to pub and
city council and with your guidance we've actually not had a rate increase for the utility since
fiscal year 2018 so definitely wanted to point this out you can see some rate decreases it's
happened over the fiscal years we haven't had any rate increases so
future topics this presentation was originally scheduled to come forward to city council in
april the 20th which was a great day it's actually my birthday but that did get delayed till today
so we're here in front of you that's why this date is still on the slide
april 26 yesterday i did want to mention this to the city council we did take a budget priorities
presentation forward to the pub to get their feedback regarding staff priorities for the
utilities for this upcoming budget cycle so those will come forward to you in the coming weeks and
months also but definitely want to let you know we took that forward to pub and then may and
september we'll begin that fiscal year 2022 operating capital budget discussions with both
pub and city council and that concludes water i'll pull that down mayor for questions
okay thank you questions for staff councilmember armature
yeah a question about the irrigation numbers does that include irrigation on city property
um councilmember armature um you're talking about the commercial irrigation rates
but if the city had a property with an irrigation meter those those rates would apply also the city
is included in that billing structure for cost of service purposes so hopefully that
answers your question if there's a separate meter for irrigation that would be billed
accordingly for that usage and does this and this might be something that's more for park staff i
don't know but uh do we tend to have uh separate irrigation meters on city property especially parks
um i don't know if gary packins on the phone or drew huffman let me see here let's remember
armature hang on just a second i think drew's on here he was um let's see and if not uh we
definitely could follow up with you regarding that question yeah the the reason why i was asking is
just because um because of that uh differential you know it would be worthwhile to look into
uh what measures we could take to uh limit water usage uh on city property to even that out although
of course you know if there aren't that many uh separate irrigation meters on city property then
that would be a moot point yeah i can definitely pass it along councilmember armature and follow
up with you the response thanks all right uh other questions for staff
okay sena i i do have a question with respect to i have this question from a resident with respect
to they have a larger yard right but then you're but we don't account for that in our billing right
it's just basically usage right so if you have a large yard you water more you pay more
but is there is is there any way to normalize that i mean not to say that we want to just want to
what industry discussions or what's out there about maybe going to a percentage base right you
have a larger yard you're you're irrigating to a percentage versus a just a flat usage
um you know because you have four acres you're going to use more water uh but if someone has a
quarter acre they're using less water but you know it could be that doesn't mean you're having great
practices uh as far as conservation that just means you have a smaller lot so have we looked
at that at all to kind of balance that out or if if we would want to uh mayor if the consensus is
or if you give us that direction we definitely could visit with a consultant about that and
bring that back to you in fiscal year 2022 discussions here in the coming weeks and months
to answer your question we have not looked at that that rate structure and to account for
different size lots or acreage okay uh okay well i think about that and then see if that's something
to bring forward i just wanted i was curious if we uh looked into that uh okay any other questions
for staff okay seeing none ready for the is it wastewater what's next yes sir wastewater okay
great let me um let me get that pulled up just give me a second
okay um so won't go through all these bullet points again same principle as the water
presentation you can see the 1920 actuals uh the 10-year forecast and of course the
cost of service overview for the wastewater utility we'll talk to you about
um so the end of your actuals for uh the wastewater utility and you can see the
1920 budget had adopted revenues of 36.7 million um you can see that number right here plain juice
reserves of 1.6 total resources of 38.3 uh 1920 actuals we actually finished the year really close
to budget about 36.1 um with using less than reserves about 783,000 and then total resource
to 37 36.9 um so 2021 we had adopted resources or revenues of 37.6 had no plain use of reserves
so definitely a balanced budget in 2021 um this is the expenses by different service areas you
can see administration um laboratories drainage rolls up into the wastewater fund watershed
protection miscellaneous and drainage miscellaneous so and several different operational areas within
here 1920 had adopted expenses of 38.3 coming in but under budget about 36.9 and then that adopted
2021 being 36.9 um so did want to point out here too same thing as water staff did a great job
looking at those COVID expense reductions um really looking at their operating budgets when
the pandemic started and making reductions accordingly so definitely wanted to give them
credit for those efforts this is a 10-year forecast for the wastewater proforma same thing
as water um i'm sure you're a little bit more familiar with it after seeing water but you can
see 1920's adopted budget here in this column here's that planned use reserves of 1.6 million
that we mentioned total resources of 38.3 and then of course expenses of 38.3 um the actuals
only using 784,000 in reserves which finished the year a lot better than originally thought
and then the adopted 2021 and you can see we basically have a balanced budget of 37.1 million
in revenue 37.1 million in expenses moving down the page you can see the 2021 budgets the current
one we have a budgeted reserve of 14.2 million um which is right here 139 days in working capital
and a couple things i want to point out in here is the reserve target for wastewater
so for this utility the minimum is 28 percent or 100 days and the maximum being 39 percent or 140
days so a little bit different than water um the minimum being 10.4 is a value and 14.5 is the
upper end so we definitely fall within that i do want to point out that this proforma here in
this green line does not include any rate increases or decreases but the reserve does dip below
slightly below that reserve requirement starting in fiscal year 2026 so these are definitely some
discussions we'll have with you as we start the fiscal year 2022 budget discussions
and look into the capital programs throughout there in the future years
and any possible rate increases in the future years it's a drainage proforma so drainage does
roll up into the wastewater utility we have historically showed it separate as part of the
budgeting process um so just point out fiscal year 2021 which is the current budget so drainage
revenues are mostly made up of residential and non-residential from pervious surface there is a
fee that's adopted by city council each year that generates this revenue it's about 5.4 million 5.5
million i mean expenses for the drainage utility is about 5.5 million we do set aside one million
dollars in reserve for the drainage utility and that is part of the wastewater reserve
five-year capital plan for wastewater a very similar thing the debt issuance was originally
planned at 32.9 million of bonds and after staff looking at the capital projects looking at timing
of projects any current cash that we could utilize instead of issuing bonds they brought forward to
reimburse more into 26.1 million so a little bit less than the adopted budget we have some revenue
funding of 5.3 million so this is coming from the operating fund being funded by rate revenue
impact fees we do budget for those every single year so we do look at that impact fee schedule
any eligible project that may be constructed that year we do try to cash fund at least a portion of
those and then as you can course lastly you can see the video for a placement of 1.2 million
dollars in reserve for the waste water fund
fund balance analysis for the waste water fund very similar to water surveyed the same cities and
it said these cities usually count water and wastewater together but we did show them separate
for the city of denton because they account for them separate so for the wastewater utility you
can see our expenses of 38.3 million that minimum reserve target being 28 which equals about 10.9
million based on the percentages of the city same recommendation here and looking at those
professional organization staffs not currently recommending any adjustment to this fund balance
policy here the professional organizations were reviewed in water i won't go through them again
with you and but you can see those percentages noted here in this table which the city doesn't
does fit well within these we do feel comfortable at our current reserve targets
and this starts the rate discussion i'll keep going mayor if that's okay and if there's questions
at the end we can we can proceed with questions absolutely thank you um similar here terminology
for the wastewater utility if you look at the rate ordinance facility volume you can see sr stands
for residential wastewater service sc is commercial and industrial wastewater service moving down you
can see ww which is self-treated wastewater effluent water which is commonly used for irrigation in the
city wastewater cost of service results um you can see the different service categories and then
wastewater the first one being residential and then commercial eating um equipment services and
eating establishments we wanted to be sure to call that out and then metered wastewater ocl um so
starting residential the cost of service is 15 million i'm sorry 12.1 million the current revenue
is about 11.9 or 12 million so basically just about cost of service the residential is recovering
cost in that category commercial you can see the cost of service is 10.9 current revenue about
10.7 so a little bit under recovery about 120 000 but basically break even on the wastewater side
eating establishments are currently over recovering about 238 000 which 18 percent um fairly close to
that cost recovery mark so current residential and commercial rates we combine these on one slide
for wastewater customers this is a non-metered service um so they are billed on the average
winter usage um so we don't have a winter and a summer rate they're just billed on that average
usage for a customer that does not have an average established um we simply use the average from
december january and february um so let me back up actually if a customer lives in a household
within the months of december january and february that established usage is used for their average
billing for that calendar period if they move into a household and don't have that average in the
winter months it's currently set at 5400 which you can see that noted down here so they'd be
built on 5400 gallons so as reduced a couple years ago several council members may remember
from 6000 gallons to 5400 um so going up to the table really quick you can see the facility charge
of 11 that is at fixed fee similar to water the volume charge is 380 this is charged per thousand
gallons um and then the average customer bill for a wastewater customer is currently 31.52 on the
residential side then commercial is about 233.84 and commercial is based on 42,750 so definitely
wanted to point that out um one other thing with the winter storm event this question did come up
in the puv and several citizens have probably asked this question to you and asked it to staff
the month of february will actually be removed from the average this year due to the winter storm
event so if you have a citizen ask that question please pass that message along so the month of
december and january will be calculated or figured but february will be omitted so definitely wanted
to point that out to everybody this is the residential rate comparison um similar cities as
we did for water you can see the city didn't towards the lower end here at 3152 which is the
rate we previously saw that is based on 5400 gallons and this is the commercial rate comparison
um so you can see commercial customers based on 42,750 gallons is 233.84 which is in the middle of
the graph then of course those next steps we talked about yesterday with the pub those budget
priorities that will come forward to city council and the future budget discussions that have come
forward to the city council in the coming weeks and months um that concludes wastewater i'll pull
this one down for questions okay questions for staff with respect to wastewater see none
okay excuse me okay water really quick i mean yes pull up solid waste really quick
um and then as a reminder electric was presenting last week cassie presented that presentation to
the city council so we actually won't go through electric today solid waste will be the final
presentation saving the best for last saving the best for last that is exactly right
okay and then just overview the presentation um a little bit different in this presentation
we um the cost of service study was completed a few years ago so we have not updated it um within
the last year or two so we did not include that in the presentation currently but that model that
was updated a few years ago years ago will definitely be included in the fiscal year 2022
budget process that is not going to be discussed today in the presentation and these are the actual
revenues for the solid waste fund so in 1920 and you can see that adopted budget here about 35.4
million in revenues we had planned use reserves of three million with the actual revenue coming
in at 36.9 million so above that adopted budget so actually avoided that use of reserves of three
million we'll talk a little bit more about that here in a second um the adopted 2021 you can see
adopted revenues of 39.8 we currently plan to use 4.3 million in reserves you can see um landfill
gate traffic i wanted to point this out this is a contributing factor um to not using those reserves
you can see originally budgeted 3.2 million so you can see that increased traffic into the landfill
we finished the year at 5 million same thing with landfill wholesale if you remember we had a few
agreements that were approved after the adopted 1920 budget so that's why these actuals came in
higher than budget to 2.5 budgeted 4 million is where we finished the year so i wanted to point
that out to you expenses by division um same thing here 1920 you can see adopted expenses of 38.5
million um finished the year about 35.9 million same thing in this utility is water and wastewater
staff did a great job looking at their expense budget making those reductions during that covid
when the covid pandemic first started so i wanted to point that out for solid waste staff 2021 you
can see the adopted expenses of 44.1 million for the current budget year expense detail um you can
see personnel here you can see materials and supplies this takes a little bit further dive
into the budget that we didn't do in water wastewater we thought we'd include this for
some context of their budget so you can see 44.1 million is made up of all these different categories
within the fund so anything from materials and supplies to maintenance repair debt service
some landfill closure to fund that liability that future liability that exists with the landfill so
five-year pro forma for the solid waste fund so here's 2020 i won't walk you back through the
numbers again but you can't see the actuals definitely want to point this out so instead of
using the three million in reserves in 2020 we didn't use anything in reserves uh so we finished
the year really good and actually finished positive about a million adding that million
to the reserves in 2021 we had the planned use reserves of 4.3 million we'll point out this
included a five percent rate decrease for the standard residential customer that had a standard
residential cart equated about a dollar and eight cents a month and so definitely wanted to point
that out the city council approved that rate decrease in 2021 moving down the page and similar
to the other utilities we show the operating reserve separate in 2021 we have an adopted
operating reserve of 7.9 million you can see that number right here and then you also can see the
working capital targets the minimum being 51 days or 14 percent with the maximum being 65 days or 18
percent so 6.2 minimum 7.9 is the max we do dip below slightly below out here in fiscal year 2025
i will tell the city council the main contributing factor to this is the rate the revenue decrease
that you see from 22 to 23 we do go from 39.5 million to 34.5 and that is mainly due or entirely
due to those wholesale contract agreements ending and going away so this performance does not
contemplate those being renewed if a decision is made to renew those this performance would change
accordingly definitely thought that was important to point out this is the capital program for this
always fund wanted to point out a couple things here that are great for this utility we had one
debt funded project in fiscal year 2021 which is the fleet expansion building i'm pretty sure you've
heard about it in the past in several presentations that project was three million dollars the rest of
their capital program is cash funded either through the vehicle replacement reserve or through revenue
through that rate revenue we're getting into the landfill or from residential commercial businesses
so this fund has made a huge transition over the last few fiscal years you remember the majority of
the projects were debt funded the majority of them are actually revenue funded now so this fund is
definitely doing a great job fund balance analysis we did survey several cities around the area that
some of them did own landfills some of them not but we definitely want to point this out to you
so you can see the city of arlington dallas forth garland and plano you can see what the operating
budget is for each of those utilities what the minimum reserve target is and what that equates
to in a dollar amount so you can see the seed in 6.1 million based on this finding very similar
to water and wastewater we do not recommend any changes to the solid waste fund balance
but we will continue to continue to monitor this moving forward as part of the budgeting process
but right now based on conversations the public utility we're in city management we're recommended
to leave this the same and then so the future dates so budget conversation starting for fiscal
year 2022 in the coming weeks and months here in the near future then i will stop sharing this
presentation mayor and that actually is the last presentation i have for you today okay thank you
questions on solid waste okay seeing none one more time okay very good thank you very much nick
thank you mayor yes sir okay so that concludes our work session so i will call the close
closed session and then we'll take a break to
i'll take us in the closed session i'll call it when we get when we come back from break but we'll
we'll now convene in closed session at 5 52 p.m we will consider the following items
consultation with attorneys under texas government code 551.0 it's 452 what did i say 552 okay that's
what it is on the east coast got it thank you at 452 we will consider the following items
consultation with attorneys under texas government code section 551.071 so let's see it let's be back
at 5 15 and we'll we'll call the first item we only have one item in closed session but
we'll call that thank you very much and welcome back to this meeting of the denton city council
we just concluded our work session and closed session items it takes us to our consent agenda
so we're back on the record at 6 32 p.m and we are again at the consent agenda section so
nothing was pulled no presentation so i will take a motion mayor pro tem davis
move approval of the consent agenda okay council member baker i'll second him thank you so we have
a motion by mayor pro tem davis a second by council member baker any discussion okay mayor
pro tem how say you aye council member baker uh council member armature
yes council member johnson aye council member melzer aye council member ryan
aye and mayor hudspeth is a i as well that passes seven to zero and we have one item for individual
consideration uh just any okay we have no callers no comments so i'll call this is id 21-758
consider adoption of ordinance of the city of denton a texas home rule municipal corporation
authorizing a city manager or their designee to execute a contract with
kurt co ink i hope i didn't say that wrong for crack ceiling services for the street department
evening how did i do how do you how do you say the name of the company uh kurt co yes i did it
uh
crack ceiling this is what our street department uses as part of one of our maintenance programs
to upkeep the city streets and maintain them crack seal as you can see in the
photos at the bottom of your screen is what some people will see all the black lines across the
across the street as you go what these actually do is it's a it's a an asphalt sealant that gets
put down and seals the cracks and actually prevents water penetration all the way down into the
into the subgrade which is the main thing that will destroy the your street service
this is used in conjunction with our micro seal which should be coming to council in the next
month as we finish up that bit but we use this every year the contract is for 2.9 million dollars
we average about 500 550 000 every year with the amount of streets that we do and there is a
contingency built in for the cost increase over the length of the contract staff recommends the
approval of the contract to kerco incorporated for cracks in services for the streets department
in a five-year not to exceed amount of 2.9 million dollars
then i'll bring the presentation down any uh questions okay uh questions for staff council
member melzer yeah um i noted that uh you didn't choose the lowest price
which i think can be a really good thing i think sometimes you choose the lowest and
you know kind of get what we pay for uh but uh there were a couple that were
lower i wonder if you could elaborate on the factors that made you make this recommendation
you know other than price yes sir well what we looked at is some past performance that we've
had with uh different vendors and also their their location and the ability to be able to
come in and meet the schedules that we needed to meet uh crack ceilings usually done um usually in
the in the spring fall time when the temperatures aren't too hot and it can actually adhere to the
road and get in there and at certain times for companies that are farther away it makes it
harder for them to actually hit our schedules okay uh any other questions for staff
okay seeing none i will uh take a motion
council member armature
i move approval okay uh is there a second mayor pro tem davis a second okay we have a
motion by council member armature a second by mayor pro tem davis any other discussion
okay um then um council member armature i'll say you yes okay and um make a note
mayor pro tem davis i'll say you aye council member johnson aye council member melter
aye council member ryan aye council member baker
thank you mayor hudspeth is a i as well that passes seven to zero thank you daniel
uh and and that concludes uh our agenda for this evening takes us to concluding items
anyone have concluding items
one more time okay well then i'm gonna have edit let me make make my notes so what i have is uh
i have a heads up warning for a crazy idea for staff that's coming from me uh i i drove out
of med park uh parking lot there at the station and i had the crazy idea for us to build a building
and maybe have different selfie stations in there or something each each college could decorate
they ride up you take pictures or at least a building maybe that we can rent to people
i just look at that parking lot and i have lots of ideas on how we can better use it so i'll refine
that and an email is coming to you soon just buyer beware then i do want to say thank you for thank
you to the evening rotary group they have a trash pickup around the square uh once a month on mondays
i wasn't able to go yesterday but they do a great job and so i appreciate them uh for taking care of
our downtown ish area and look forward to joining them again next month uh first refuge has a gala
on thursday for those interested they do a lot of food pantry work here in the community so
want to make sure everyone is aware of that and then if i'm not mistaken the quad state senior
open pickleball tournament is going on at ropes and ranch on starting on the first uh this weekend
i think that starts saturday so that'll be quite the event and and i'm going to try to get by there
and uh get some tips and then there's the horses uh for healing gala and that supports and that's
on the first and that supports uh cumberland children's home here in town and so that that's
out at uh lantana golf club and so want to uh mention that again that's uh i do believe that's
on the the make sure yes on the first saturday the first as well so that's what i have uh other
than that any any other oh okay there we go councilman johnson saturday is election day
yes this is true uh please the you still if you're watching this meeting you still have time to vote
today uh then the next time you'll be able to vote is saturday so uh that that's a that's a very
important note thank you uh and other than that i think we're all set uh it is so i'll
adjourn the meeting at 6 40 pm uh it is still uh april 27 2021 and y'all have a great evening and
we're back on monday when are we back monday the third is that right yes all right we're back for a
luncheon meeting and then we have a regular meeting on the fourth can't wait monday and tuesday back
to back all right well thank you all very much have a great evening