Thank you very much. Thank you.
Good morning and welcome to this
meeting of the mobility
committee. The city of Denton.
Uh, we have quorum and I see
Council member Armand Torres
present to some degree.
Actually we're seeing a picture
of a cat. But I have it on, uh
been advised that she is not a
cat. Hopefully there soon. I'm
sorry. We have audio. So we'll
go ahead and get started. Um
with the first item for
individual consideration was
which is considering approval
of the minutes of March 17th.
Entertain a motion. I move
approval. I move approval.
John, I'll second. I'll second
the motion. Uh officially moved
and, uh, as member Ryan
seconded all those in favor.
Hi. Hi. Hi. Okay. Minutes are
approved. We've got to be
received report and hold the
discussion regarding City of
Denton Transportation slash
Mobility Project status
report. Mr Poulster here with
us. Thank you, Mr Poulster.
Just gonna just going to, uh,
handle that item. Is that you,
Becky? I'm actually served.
Mr Poulster is supposed to be
online. He's not online yet, so
we're going to check with him
and see where he is. Um and so
has a scheduling conflict this
morning, too. So I know they
were asking to be on later
today also. So give us a
minute. Just letting me know
that. Yeah. So why don't we go
ahead and, uh, and move to
item D. So, uh, I don't know if
we have to unopen that we're
gonna sure we can move to item
D and I actually see Mr Poulster
walking up, so we will give him
a couple of minutes and we're
happy to move to item D if you
would like to myself and Daniel
Kramer, who were both going to
be making those presentations
are here today. So if we want
to take that item first, then
that's not a problem with me,
sir. Yeah, let's go ahead and do
that. So item D is staff
reports. Uh, one staff my
random update regarding the
senior planner, uh, also frame
street, also ankle drive
roundabout and identified items
of interest for future
consideration.
Wonderful. Well, good morning.
I just wanted to take the time
this morning to give you an
update on the senior planner,
bicycle, pedestrian and 88
coordinator position. We held
interviews on April 9th. We had
approximately 61 applications
and that position was open
until filled. So there's still
several applications that have
come in. And I will tell you
that we had four candidates
that we interviewed. Um, we are
having a second round of
interviews on Friday morning,
um, with the, uh, top two
individuals. And so we look
forward to, uh, those
interviews and, uh, hopefully
soon we will be able to
announce that we actually have
a person to fill that position.
So, um, we appreciate all the,
um, you know, time and effort
that staff is taking to make
sure that we're looking at the
right candidate. We do
appreciate the committees and
commissions that were able to
participate as part of the
interviews. And so we're very
much interested and excited
about hoping, um, through the
candidate process that we find a
candidate that's going to be
able to be successful, um, in
that position. So just wanted
to take the time to make that
update. Um, I'll add, I was
pleased to be able to
participate in, uh, in some of
those panels along with a
member of the public, uh, Susie
Groomer. Uh, and I was very
impressed with the candidate
pool in total. I think the
hardest, um, of the three
pieces to get that you need to
get, you know, seems to be the
ADA. And I, um, I'm imagining
that there'd be a lot of, uh,
further training and
reinforcement in that area,
whoever gets the job to share
that view. Absolutely. I think
that they're going to have big
shoes to fill, but we're
definitely excited about
getting someone on our team, um,
to move forward. And so, um,
like I said, thank you so much
for Councilmember Meltzer, you
being a part of the interview
panel, we do appreciate it very
much. So, um, with that, I'm
going to move on to the next
item, which is the Frame Street.
Oh, I'm sorry, Councilmember
Amateur. How can I help you,
ma'am? So sorry, I looked down.
Go ahead. Oh yeah. Yeah. Just a
question, uh, for, for staff or
for Councilmember Meltzer,
since you, uh, attended, uh,
attended that meeting and thank
you for attending. Um, so is it,
uh, your sense that, uh, the,
the specialization of the
finalists is, uh, more along
the, uh, bike and pedestrian
coordinator side of the, uh,
job description, um, and a
little weaker in the ADA area
with that. That's, that's,
that's my impression. Uh, it
wasn't like 100, 100, zero, but
they're definitely, uh, I'd
say, you know, have particularly
strong straight, strong, uh,
noticeable strengths in the, in
the bike and pedestrian area
across, across the board, uh,
with, with, uh, varying degrees
of ADA expertise. Okay. And,
and thank you. And I would, uh,
you know, hope that, uh, uh, we
choose the person or that the
person gets chosen, um, who has
the most, uh, ADA experience,
assuming that, uh, they're all
equally qualified as far as bike
and pedestrians, bike and
pedestrian side goes, I would
just, uh, advise for, for what
it's worth, um, for what my, my
opinion is worth, uh, that, um,
if the strongest candidate, uh,
is just simply much better with,
uh, uh, much more experience on
the, um, bike and pedestrian
coordinator side than the ADA
side, then I would say, you
know, go for that person and,
and then make the ADA
coordinator a separate position.
I know that's something that
would, that's brand new would
have to come before council.
That's not the job is
advertised. Um, but you know, I,
I want to get, uh, the best bike
and pedestrian coordinator we
can for the city of Denton and
the best ADA coordinator. And if
they don't coexist in the same
person, I'm fine with that.
Then I would want to make those
separate, uh, separate
positions that that's just,
that's just my two cents.
Thank you very, thank you very
much, ma'am. I appreciate the
feedback. Ultimately, we're
absolutely interested in finding
the best candidate for the
position and, um, you know,
hoping that we're successful.
Um, if for some reason that
based on the second round of
interviews, we don't feel like
that we are going to be
successful, then we will be
looking at, uh, reposting that
position. So I do appreciate the
comments and feedback. So I
look forward to hopefully
bringing you back additional
information in the near future.
Thank you. So the next item I'm
going to bring to you is the
frame street closure. Um, I'd
like to mention, um, that we are
going to be bringing this item
back to the traffic safety
commission in May. Um, and they
have specifically asked for more
details in regards to the needs
around the specific project for
the Denton police headquarters
facility. And so I am going to
have additional folks, um, be
present and help present some of
that information. My purpose of
bringing this item to you today
is just so you can understand
what's going on. And it's really
more from an informational
purpose. It has no action item.
It's just a, um, a process that
we're going to be going through,
um, to close a roadway, but, um,
obtain the right of way, um,
which will be explained here in a,
so I'm going to go ahead and
start with that, uh, presentation
and I'm going to share my screen
and let's see.
So just a little bit of background
on the frame street closure. Um,
so the closure was requested from
the Denton police head headquarters,
um, construction project. I know
you're all aware, but that
construction project began, uh,
early January of 2021. Um, it's
anticipated to be substantially
complete in June of 2022. This
closure was requested by the
Denton police department, um, for
security reasons, as you can
imagine, um, currently right now,
um, there's not a secure location.
Um, as far as a fenced in
location where, um, if they need
to bring individuals into their
facility, um, from their police
cars, that they have a secure
location. So this is really a
request by the police department
and that's something that will be
expanded on at the next traffic
safety commission meeting, um, in,
in greater detail by, uh, the
individuals from our police
department. Um, and following the
feedback from the traffic safety
commission, um, which, like I
mentioned, we presented on Monday,
but we will be bringing this back
on May 17th. Um, and then also
just the awareness of the process
from you. And we are going to be
coordinating with the adjacent
residents and business owners
through our public affairs
department. And we've been
currently coordinating with the
solids waste department, as you
can mention, and it'll be better
explained once you can actually
see the picture. Um, so one of
the things that you'll see
specifically is, um, the, uh,
solid waste perspective of the
dumpsters and where those things
are actually located so that, uh,
the, uh, the solid waste can get
over there and, uh, take the
trash from that facility. And
we're going to be working
through that. There are some
interim steps that already have
happened for the actual dumpster
locations and then obviously the
permanent locations. Um, and then
signage will be installed to
notify motorists about changes to
traffic patterns. And then
obviously updating the city's
GIS map system. So just to give
you an overall picture, um,
basically kind of the yellow
highlighted area is the area of
which would be completely, um,
uh, fenced in, um, around this
area, but the overall Denton PD,
uh, obviously there won't be
fencing in the front, but the
overall Denton PD facility is,
uh, really kind of this, uh,
yellow highlighted area. Um, the
proposed closures, this is frame
street that runs north and south.
And this actually, believe it or
not, is Oak street that runs
east or west. And so the overall
closure would be where you see
the red line here and the red
line here, which would allow for
a fence here that would open
when the PD were to come in, um,
they could park in this
vicinity. And I'll show you on
the next picture, which is a
graphical representation of what
the final, uh, look is of the
Denton PD facility. Um, but just
wanted to kind of show you,
cause the next picture is going
to get a little bit busier. So,
um, what you can see from this
overall picture that I was
provided from the Denton police
facility, um, this existing
building, um, is obviously under
renovation. Um, this is
exposition street where there
are parking spaces, um, and
there will be a security
perimeter fence that's located,
um, in this area. There'll be a
security entrance in this
location and the purpose of
closing this roadway. You can
see the security entrance here
and the security entrance here.
So that the Denton police
facility, um, would be an access
for all of the police department
to be able to come in, park
either in this secure parking
space or in this secure police
parking space. Um, you can see
this perimeter fence. It's kind
of the line that you see with
the straight line with the
circles. It would go around the
facility. There'd also be
another entrance in this
location, um, putting the fence
and the actual entrance in this
location along with this
location still allows access
for this individual along with
these individuals, um, also
with this individual right here.
So that was something that was
very important to us to make
sure that everyone still had
access to their properties. Um,
you also will see that they're
going to be some future dumpsters
in some of these locations. I'd
like to point out that the jail
entrance would actually be back
in this area. Um, and so, you
know, the new Sally port entry
is, is, uh, in this area. And
then the secure police only
entry would be in this area. So
the fence would allow for the
folks to drive in, park in the
location. Um, and this would
not be an open access to the
public. So really our next steps
were to address any comments
that were received and we
received quite a few comments
from traffic safety commission
just from the standpoint that
they'd like more information
specifically related to the
needs of the police department.
They also wanted to find out
more information in regards to,
um, several comments were made
specifically related to this is
an area where currently
pedestrians are walking from
their point of view. And also
according to some strata heat
maps, this is where bicyclists
are actually, um, Traversing
through. Um, and so we're going
to be looking into those, uh,
questions and comments that came
up along with the fact that they
wanted to make sure that folks
had access to cross McKinney
street appropriately. It's our
understanding from the traffic
safety commission meeting that
folks riding a bicycle are, um,
traversing from, um, the
southern side of frame street
onto the northern side of frame
street or vice versa. Um, and so
we want to make sure that folks
have access. Um, then the life
that is actually a secured, um,
location, um, is not located
until wood street, but we are
looking at those pedestrian and
mobility perspectives, not only
from a vehicular perspective,
but also from a bicycle and
pedestrian. And so those are the
questions that comments that
came up during traffic safety
commission that are important to
us to be able to address so that
we can bring that item back. Um,
the ordinance that would be
processed, which will later come
to city council, it was
anticipated to come on the 27th.
Um, but due to the comments that
came up through traffic safety
commission, we will not be
bringing that back to council
until late May, um, because I
want to make sure we walk
through the process of addressing
all the current concerns and
questions that came up, um, from
that traffic safety commission
meeting that I keep referencing.
And so through that we will, uh,
make, uh, all of the, uh,
recommendations, uh, talk about
the capital projects that are in
the area. If there's any
additional safety, um, concerns
or any additional, uh, mobility,
uh, comments, um, that we need
to address, we're going to do
that, um, before coming back to
that traffic safety commission
meeting, um, which is the third,
uh, Monday of the month of May.
So with that, I'm going to stop
sharing and see if any of you
have any specific questions,
really, like I mentioned, that
was the informational item, just
so you can kind of understand,
um, what staff has been asked to
do, um, with that closure of the
frame street, we're calling it,
but it actually is frame and oak
street. Um, and just to explain
to you that through that traffic
safety commission meeting, there
were several questions that came
up, not just from the vehicular
traffic movement, um, but also
from the bicycle and pedestrian
movement. And so we want to make
sure we address those, bring
those back to traffic safety.
And then we're happy to also
bring that same presentation as a
staff update to you, um, at the
next, uh, mobility committee
meeting also. So with that, I'll
pause and see if you have any
questions, questions, comments.
I'll kick in a couple while you
think about it. Um, I, uh, uh,
got some input that, uh,
resonates with what you heard
from the traffic safety, uh,
committee about bike and
pedestrian. And, uh, I'll leave
you the question, you don't need
to answer, but just a question
about whether there might be, uh,
consideration of an extension
in the future of the, of the
rail trail, trail through that
area and ultimately connecting
to Quaker town park. And if so,
and that seems to resonate with,
you know, the feedback you were
getting that there's kind of a
natural, uh, uh, draw to get to
that route. If so, would that
alter any of the plan? So again,
that's just a question to leave
you with. And, um, uh, yeah,
I'll, I'll leave it at that.
There's an, that's it. Any, any,
any other questions or comments?
Nope. We're good. Okay. Thanks.
Uh, no problem. I appreciate
that so much. And so the last
item we have for you today, um,
is going to be presented by
Daniel Kramer. Um, he is, uh,
going to be talking about the
Hinkle drive roundabout. This
item will be coming to council
on April 27th. And this is more
of an informational presentation
for you, um, specifically
related to the Hinkle drive
roundabout and some of the
questions and concerns that have
been raised. And so we thought
it would be important to bring
this to you so you could
understand, um, uh, the, the
information that we have to date
and, uh, the evaluation that has
been completed. So with that, I
am going to make sure Danny's
all set up and get everything
turned over to him.
Okay. Good morning. Apologize
for that. Let me pull up the
presentation. Okay. So we are
here to talk about the Hinkle
roundabout, which is located at
the intersection of Hinkle and
Mimosa. Uh, this is a mini
roundabout, um, and we're going
to talk about some of the issues
and the purpose of a roundabout
and a little bit of a project
background to start off with.
You know, a roundabout in
general is used to, uh, slow
down vehicular, uh, movement as
a traffic common device, but
also still keep it moving,
unlike a four way stop or a
signalized intersection. It
also can reduce the accident
severity because you're only
looking one way when you're, uh,
going through the intersection
instead of having to check all
directions, um, in a four way
or intersection, uh, signalized
intersection. Uh, it has some
benefits with, uh, maintenance
costs are actually reduced
compared to a normal signalized
intersection. And as I stated
before, it also makes sure that,
uh, vehicles are constantly
moving through the intersection
instead of where we look at with
a, um, a full stop where you're
actually, vehicles are coming to
complete stop and having to wait
before they can proceed. Uh,
this project was actually an
add-on to that, to Magnolia
drainage, um, in early 2019 and
it was substantially completed
in October of 2020 and we're
still continuing a few sidewalk
improvements in the area that
will should be completed by May
of 2021. Uh, we've had some,
uh, concerns that have been
brought to our attention about
the roundabout. Um, those have
come in the form of two engaged
dent and request, um, two requests
that were forwarded from, um,
uh, council members and also two
calls to the Denton Police
Department, um, about some issues
with the roundabout. Most of
those have consisted of it being
a little confusing. Um, a
roundabout is not a standard set
up here in Denton at the moment.
We are getting more and having
more come into the area. Uh, but
it's, uh, something a little
different that motorists are
having to get used to, uh,
traversing. Also the emergency
vehicles, since this being a
mini roundabout, the way it's
designed is they are, they are
supposed to drive over the
center, uh, curb to be able to
traverse it. Larger vehicles,
uh, fire trucks, ambulances,
uh, solid waste vehicles and
et cetera do drive around that.
Um, one of those concerns that
was also brought up was a
visibility at night and staff
put a, um, hired a firm to go
through and do a photometric
study. And we did receive those
results at the end of March and
based on the results, the
Hinkle, on Hinkle, what they
recommended is adding some
extra reflective pavement
markings on the median noses to
help make that so you can see
those, uh, easier at night. Uh,
addition of some raised pavement
markings in the area and also
upgrade the current lighting and
add additional light poles in
the area, uh, to create more
light on the circle itself. On
Mimosa, what they did recommend
is modifying the curb geometry.
Uh, there are some issues with,
um, residents parking close to
the entrance of the roundabout.
So what that is, is extending
the, um, the road, uh, narrowing
a little bit farther down so
that there's plenty of room for,
um, motorists as they come up to
be able to get in the full lane
and see where the roundabout is
and see that, and also checking
with the medians in the middle
of the road, um, on Mimosa and
Hinkle and making sure that
they're not sticking too far out
on the curves on that. Now,
based off our estimates, we are
looking at around $22,000 to
implement these changes. Um, the
additional light poles and
upgrade to current light
fixtures. There is a
presentation which is coming to
council on the 27th by DME,
which will cover the, uh, the
migratory birds and also the
neighborhood lighting plan. So
based off that recommendation is
how we will look at additional
lighting and upgrading the
current lighting fixtures in
that area. Uh, it was also
brought up as a concern of
asking about removal of the
roundabout. So, uh, we want to
go through a few of the
concerns on that. Um, one of
those is if we do that, all the
vehicles will be required to
stop at the intersection, which
is going to cause, could cause
some backup and some issues of
flow there, unlike the
roundabout, which keeps traffic
constantly moving. Um, also,
uh, stop signs are not always
observed 100% of the time by
all motorists. Uh, so there is
issues with that and also on the
right to proceed. Um, still
there are some issues with, um,
citizens motorists not knowing
which way to go, um, at a four
way stop when vehicles come to
the stop at the same time. Also,
year to date, we've incurred
right at $137,000, uh, to
install the roundabout and the
improvements that we've made so
far. Some of the benefits are
it is a more of a typical
intersection stop. So more
people will be familiar with it
and be able to run it more than
a roundabout. Um, and also the
striping, there is a reduced
cost on striping and signage for
that. Uh, based on our
estimates, we are looking at
around $140,000 to remove the
roundabout and replace it back
with a standard stopped
intersection. Based off the
information and what we've
looked at, uh, staff does
recommend maintaining the
existing roundabout and making
the upgrades recommended by the
photometric study to improve
the visibility. Um, as I stated,
we will be working with DME, uh,
from the feedback and the
council direction that's given
on the 27th for the led
lighting and migratory bird
issues on the actual street
light, um, implementation and
make sure we do not affect that
from there. And with that, I
will take down the presentation
and if there's any comments, uh,
we can go through there.
Hey, questions, comments,
council member Armitter.
Uh, so, I mean, first I wanted
to say thanks to staff for
working through these problems.
I know I was, you know, one of
the, uh, people who was, uh,
uh, receiving, uh, you know,
complaints about, uh, safety
issues and on, and at that
roundabout, um, I, I definitely
do not support removing the
roundabout, uh, anytime issues
come up regarding a roundabout,
uh, where people agree there's a
problem. People tend to divide
into two camps. Roughly, you
know, there are people who say
roundabouts are terrible. Uh,
and, you know, then there are
others that who, um, uh, you
know, understand the need for a
roundabout in that area or, you
know, don't have anything
against roundabouts. They just
want to problem solve. Uh, so,
you know, it's the difference
between, you know, saying, um,
you know, uh, marriage is
terrible and then saying, well,
maybe I should marry somebody
else, right? Don't throw out the
baby with the bath water. So
anyway, I just, uh, I just
wanted to make clear, you know,
that I have always, uh,
supported a roundabout in this
area. It makes sense. Um, I
just want to clarify. So you
mentioned to the lighting at
the, did you say the nose of
the median or the
Yes. So what we are looking at
is some good pavement
reflectors that will actually,
um, put off more light and be
able to see that more visibly
at night. Uh, the, also the
photometric study, um, also
showed adding a few more stop,
uh, few more street lights in
the area. And, uh, right now
that is currently not our city
standard and would also produce
quite a bit of light in the
area, which is, is not a bad
thing, but we do want to make
sure that we are, uh, working
with DME and council direction
that will be given on the 27th,
uh, for neighborhood lighting
plans and also the migratory
birds on that. But with what we
can do, um, right away after we
go through council on the 27th
with this presentation and get
direction, uh, we can get those
reflectors up, which will
visibly show that a lot better
and also, uh, some of the led
marking lights will actually
give a better signage and better
visibility at night.
Okay. And, and will this be, so
does this mean the whole
periphery or the, the whole
circumference of the roundabout
will be illuminated or just
certain parts of it?
So, and, and I do apologize.
I haven't got the, the pictures
added to it. I will have some
more pictures of exactly what
we're looking at for the
council presentation. There was
some feedback that I got
yesterday on the presentation,
but yes, it'll be a strip that
will go around the whole
circumference on all of that.
And it is drive over. Um, so it
is, it'll actually reflect that
and you'll be able to see it as
you're coming up to it at night
and make it a lot clearer.
Okay. Wonderful. Wonderful. I
really think that'll make a big
difference. Um, and, uh,
secondly, you know, my, my, my
other question, you know, has to
do with the problem of, uh, uh,
fire engines are, or just, you
know, any larger vehicle kind of
going around it, can it, can you
speak to how, because, you know,
there were some signs that had
been knocked down, uh, from
vehicles, you know, trying to
get around, can you kind of
speak to how that, how this
will specifically resolve that
issue? Well, for larger vehicles
traversing straight through it,
um, it is designed for them to
drive over the center, um, as
in fire trucks, what we have
noticed, uh, while we have been
out there, while the crews have
been out there replacing the
signs that have been knocked
down on the corners. A lot of
that is from the construction
traffic with large trailers that
are running in and out of the
new fireside development when
they come in. Uh, larger trailers
when you're trying to make that,
that turn to go in there, the
trailer is swinging out a little
bit and clipping the corner of
the sign. So what we are looking
at is, uh, moving the sign back
just a little bit, um, which
should help with that. And also,
um, with some of the radiuses
that we can adjust in the middle
of Hinkle and Mimosa, uh, we
might be able to, uh, give them
a little more leeway to be able
to swing that corner a little
wider on that. After the
construction is finished in
there, uh, there will not be as
many trailers that are
traversing and turning back and
forth into the neighborhood. A
standard vehicle like a fire
truck that is, um, does not have
a trailer behind it and it's
not connected, usually does not
have those issues while making
those, those wide turns.
Okay, great. And, and, and sorry,
I know I said that was my last
question, but that makes me
think of a follow up question.
Um, so I, I know that obviously
the point of a roundabout is to
keep traffic moving. Um, would
it make any sense? Um, and the
answer might be no, uh, but
would it make any sense to put
one of those temporary speed
bumps, uh, that you all have at
some point, not, not in the
roundabout, but you know, leading
up to the roundabout on either
side, just to make, um, you know,
some construction vehicle, large
vehicle that's just thinking
about getting from, you know,
point a to point B just to force
them to slow down. Would that
make any sense or would that be
a bad idea? I'm not invested one
way or the other, just that is
something we can definitely look
at, um, off hand. I'm not a
hundred percent sure that will
work, but I will definitely bring
it up with traffic engineering
and we can look into that option.
Okay. And thank you just as long
as I understand that this is not
something I'm, you know, a battle
I'm waging. It just, it just
occurred to me just to make
people, cause it would help, I
think, to make people just
slightly slow down before they
get to the roundabout and reflect
that this is a roundabout, you
know, the, at the, at the Bonnie
Bray, uh, roundabout, there are
all those signs that make you do
that. Uh, so anyway, temporary
speed bump, not permanent might,
might be a good idea. We will
definitely put it on the list to
look into this, ma'am.
That's all right. Questions,
comments. Good. Um, uh, I have,
uh, a few that to me, the central
issue is not ambient lighting or
lighting from the top. It's the
fact that, uh, you know, speak
as a lay person at somebody who
has driven through there, it's
the fact that, you know, the
height is below where your eyes
normally are, you know, for a
car. So I don't think lighting
on top and that that's kind of
the bulk of the expense there
too, is really to the point.
There, uh, reflectors around the
perimeter make all kinds of
sense. Uh, I think I sent a
picture or I made some kind of a
comment, um, I may have sent a
picture to staff of, uh, when I
saw an Ardmore, Oklahoma, uh,
similar deal. And they actually
had a moving light that goes
around the top. So, you know,
you, you'd notice it from a
distance. Um, I think, uh, uh,
council member Armitage, uh, uh,
really good idea there on either,
whether it's speed bump or rumble
strip or something that uses a
different sense, because we know
that the visual is going to be
limited, you know, well, I think
that's, uh, that makes all kinds
of sense. And I, uh, I do hope
you'll evaluate that, uh, too.
Then, uh, last bit of, uh, input
I'd like to offer is, uh, I've
heard that it's troubling. This
one hasn't come up yet in the
list of issues, but that it's
troubling that the bike lanes
basically take you into the
traffic and dead end. And I know
the intention is to communicate.
Don't go into traffic and get
hit, get off, walk around. Um, I
think, uh, bike enthusiasts will
tell you they won't be inclined
to do it, that they would be
inclined to just keep moving with
traffic. Um, now I did actually
ask all those experts in the
panel that we recently had, uh,
you know, uh, interviewing and,
and there was not a lot of
support for the idea of adding a
bike lane around. Uh, they, from
a safety point of view, they,
there seemed to be consensus, uh,
to, to move the cyclists off and
route them around. Uh, but I
don't think there's any
indication that that's what you're
supposed to do. It looks like
drive here, end up in the middle
of traffic. So something to think
about, um, that's all I have. And,
uh, if there is nothing else, uh,
I would like to hold on the
second part of staff reports. Oh,
council member Roy, go ahead.
Something that just dawned on me
was the down on Hickory Creek,
we've got the heavy curves that
when traffic comes, it does a
flash. So it's not a constant
light. It's only when there is
vehicular movement on the road,
that that might be a better way
to, to kind of help with that as
far as pre signaling that you
need to slow up.
See, you don't need engineers.
You have all the talent, right?
Yeah. So we, we will definitely
look at those options and, uh,
council member Meltzer. I also
wanted to let you know that was
another, uh, about the bike lanes
was brought up in traffic safety.
Um, and that is something that we
will be looking at the bike lane
in pedestrian connectivity across
the city and all this. And we
will also be looking at it in
this area, especially while we're
out there making some
modifications to the curves and
doing that. So that is on our
list. Yes, sir.
Thanks for bringing this item
to us. Um, and, uh, thanks to my
colleagues for good suggestions.
So I want to hold off on the
identified items of interest for
future consideration, just in
case the other, uh, items on our
agenda spark any, uh, ideas, uh,
for members here and, and, uh,
thanks for your patience, Mr.
Bolster. I'm going to go ahead
and open or reopen item B,
receive a report and hold a
discussion regarding city debt
and transportation slash mobility
project status report.
You're on job.
Thank you.
We are pulling up the report now, and as soon as it's up we'll begin.
If you can just go to the 2181 report, we'll just go right into that.
The rest of it is just funding issues.
So on the -- can we make that a little bit smaller so we can see the whole page?
There we go.
So the 2181 project is under construction.
On the next page you'll see the text out report.
Most of the work we're doing right now is still with very sundry culverts and crossings and significant drainage issues.
And it seems like every time we put a -- back on the ground we find something else we got to deal with.
So right now we're dealing with several gas, school, and fiber issues, and we're meeting everybody in the field to try to get it resolved.
But we're still essentially on track for our March 22 completion date on this project.
If there's no questions we can move to the next one.
Forward drive, this project is essentially complete.
The new news is hopefully mobility members and council staff have received or will be receiving an invitation to the ribbon cutting.
I think we now know that it's going to be at that smokehouse location.
And if it's inclement weather, they've provided us with a place indoors to hold the event in that event.
But that's essentially what's left is just to kind of celebrate 10 and a half long years to get this project completed.
Next.
Okay.
So this is the 35V Mayhill project.
You'll see that all of the dates have changed.
And the reason we're changing the dates is because if you look in the PSNE portion of the report, we're adding braided ramps both northbound and southbound at Brinker.
And for those of you that travel that area, you'll know that the frontage roads are constantly backed up due to the signal at Brinker.
What these additional plans will do is add a bypass frontage road up with the level of the main lane so that you can get from exiting at Mayhill and go to 288 without having to stop at Brinker or exit 288 and get to Mayhill without having to stop at Brinker.
They've added two additional parcels that were environmentally cleared but not initially planned to be acquired.
But we have 35 of the 44 in possession.
And we believe that by the end of this year, it says January 22, but I think we'll be able to beat that by probably two or three months.
But we're still looking at -- it's fully funded.
It says 62.17 million, but we got permission from TxDOT and the MPO to add the additional scope.
And at the next unified transportation plan update, they'll adjust the cost accordingly.
That's 77.63 million. If you recall the last time we talked, TxDOT is requiring -- the headquarters is requiring the districts to add 4% inflation per year, per year two year of let.
So this project currently has two, possibly three years of inflation at 12%.
So that number will continually go down as we get closer to the actual let date.
And I think staff's got plans. We're going to review them together at our next staff meeting just to make sure that whatever TxDOT's proposing to do is consistent with what the city wants from a mobility standpoint and a development standpoint.
Okay. So the Dallas Drive interim improvements, if you've been over there, you see that we put those delineators up so that the folks coming from the Calaways or the northbound frontage road from the mall, their only option is to turn north onto Dallas Drive.
They cannot cross anymore.
So as you're approaching that intersection from the freeway, your options are to move to the left side of the delineators, cross Dallas Drive and get on the frontage road, continue straight through.
And so it's minimized a lot of the impacts of conflicts there, and it buys us some time to work on more permanent improvement to that intersection going forward.
Okay, your 35E merge. This is the big project.
It's ready to let in March 22. We've got most of the right-of-way acquired.
We believe we'll have the rest of the right-of-way by the end of this month.
And moving full on into utility relocations. We've got EECOM and Stantec are doing the design for the work and they've hired, TxDOT's hired LTRA to do the actual utility coordination.
And we are actively working with the utilities in the corridor.
City staff meets regularly with TxDOT folks. We had a meeting yesterday just to try to deal with some issues, and we're on track for the March 22.
I mean, the June 22 ready to let date. And remember, it's showing January 25 until this summer. Once we add a new year to unified transportation plan, this project will move back into the 22 year for let.
Okay, this is a new one from our last meeting. I think we went over it, but we didn't have it in the report per se.
But these are the interim improvements at 380 and 35. It's just a partial on the map. If we put the whole thing in, you wouldn't be able to see it.
Essentially what we're doing is we're flipping the ramps so that the exit just there at 380 comes out and that becomes an on ramp and to the south, the on ramp becomes an exit, and we're adding additional lanes on the main lanes, an auxiliary lane to connect
those two and then we'll take that auxiliary all the way up to the bridge deck so that it'll essentially add another line of traffic on 35 and move all of the conflicting movements onto the frontage road and then if you'll see there at 380 we're coming in and we're
making some changes to the intersection itself to allow for a longer transition to turn right and then the ability to do dual left and two through going northbound so that should add more capacity throughput at the intersection and so we're anticipating having this project
let in July, and text that is requested, both from the headquarters and city staff if they can work essentially 24 hours a day to try to get this resolved quickly and we're, we're still working on that detail, but the intent is we got a problem now, fix it now, and
nobody gets hung in effigy, or in reality.
This is a bigger project that goes north from 77 all the way to the county line it's the
800 million dollar project. Again those numbers are inflated for the inflation year. It's about a year behind the section from 77 south. They are breaking it up into three sections not because they don't have the funding they're breaking it up in three sections
because if they keep the dollar amount for each let at a certain number, they can, they have fewer requirements and restrictions on what they can do as far as the letting process so that project is moving forward and
yeah, that's pretty much it.
Okay on the main lanes, this is the main lanes from the merge 35 W south to where they end at 3C, which is the section of the North Terran Express that's coming up from the south that centers building.
And then this picks up where center leaves off and does the main lanes.
The, we're on track for an environmental clearance this summer we put out a notice affording opportunity to people asked for the hearing.
Text up met with each of those two people individually got direct questions answered and so there will not be an actual public hearing on this project.
We were just working through the summary and analysis portion to have the document cleared by July of this year.
We're already in the process of identifying right away.
And I think on the next project is the frontage road project.
This is the one that we're most interested in. We are acquiring right away we believe that about this time next year, roughly.
Somewhere next year we'll have all the right away acquired. We are looking at areas of focus, unless the new stimulus packets coming down provides additional funding that we don't know about.
We're looking at an emphasis area to break out some portion of this project and go first right now. The leading thinking on this project for phase one would be from somewhere just south of 407.
North to the split where the wishbone project picks up and that covers from a development standpoint.
The Avalon Centurion American project, all of the Hillwood developments and coal ranch.
So if we, if we have to, we'll just break that project out if not we'll do the whole thing because we got some stimulus money.
Okay, so this is a project under construction. So if you'll go to the next one, we'll just look at the construction report. Pretty much everything's going well on this project. There's not a lot of conflicting movements.
The text that agreed from day one that they'd keep all traffic lanes open to traffic while they were working. They've had their shift to the north.
And it seems to be going without too much impediment to traffic and adjacent properties.
And it's still on track for 23 October completion. 380 East.
We continue to have very involved conversations with utilities on this corridor. That's the critical path.
We've seen, I would say, significant movement from the two principal entities that are impacting the schedule and that's co-serving opportunity.
A lot of progress has been made in the last week and a half.
So we'll update the let date probably next month and try to get a realistic date. I don't think we're going to make the May 21 let date, but I don't think it's going to be as bad as what we thought just 60, 30 days ago.
Okay. So the feasibility study, we were hoping to be able to come tell you that it's about to be shut down and we can put it on the shelf and stop worrying about it.
But at the after this last cycle of updates that HDR did protect start while they were completing this feasibility study, if you see that yellow box, everything east of 377 to the county line, their new demographics based on what cause going to be updating when they update the mobility plan projects that in the next 12 years, where they're going to be placing
community the size of the city of Richardson inside that box. So they're anticipating 90,000 residents in the box between 380 377 to West, the outer loop to the north and the county line slash toll road to the to the east.
So, what that tells text that is that they need to move pretty quickly from feasibility to environmental clearing of 380 as a, as a freeway and didn't county is moving forward with a bond program in November of this year, and we're fairly confident that will have on that bond
program funding to begin the environmental clearance of the outer loop from where it hits the county line and Colin over to back on to 35 we're initially we're thinking we would go down to 288 but text that when their study indicates that the outer loop needs to continue as it is on
288 East thoroughfare plan. West and hit 35 somewhere around Milan road which is where your thoroughfare plan shows it.
So, we thought we were done, and we're just now getting into the deep part of the pool on this one.
So, West Chang Patel has submitted a contract dollar amount to the county, we're processing that contract now, and the schedule for the plans being complete or October 23 so we got plenty of time to get that done.
The project was cleared in 2020 they're acquiring the right away there's significant right away issues on 288 because each of those parcels that impact a gas well as a right away acquisition process also includes coordination with the utility relocations
and transmission lines and it's very involved. So if we can beat the December 24 date. We'll move it up because this project that text started asked it in county to pursue.
And from a design standpoint, because they want to get the project funded because again this is part of the whole regional outer loop for the six county seven county region.
In 2015 we've got a proposal from LTRA to do the engineering, the plan specifications and estimates we again anticipate having them on contract within the next month or so, the 42 million is a, again, an escalated dollar amount based on the 4% inflation to the 23 fiscal year.
So the next step is to get LTRA on contract to do the design work.
Okay, we are anticipating environmental clearance in the summer text that is already working on the right away map. So we can move into right away acquisition and text that's asking to make sure that we're doing 1173 the way it's supposed to be on the city's thoroughfare plan
and we're asking for a letter of support from city of Denton crumb the county and whatnot to say yeah this is where we actually want it, since we're going to be making the improvements to 35 in this area.
That includes the real location of 711 73 from its existing location to the Barthold road proposed alignment.
And that's pretty much what I have.
Sorry, my interface, I clicked weird.
Any questions or comments.
I can speak up because I've got one.
I don't know if this is a city issue or text out or a combination of the two, but 377 is fantastic, having it opened up like it is.
It's a two time way back if you're heading north, but if you're heading south, we still have the bottleneck at 35 because it's still one lane has to turn left one lane has turned right and only one lane can go straight to fill the three lanes on the other side.
Do we know whose issue that is is that something text out has to handle or is that something the city needs to work on. I think it's a combination we'll get with x dot area office to see what needs to be done there it's a text up facilities but you know city of Denton manages the signals but yeah I think it's a situation where we just need to bring it up to staff and see what we need to do to get more traffic through there I agree.
I drive through there all the time and it needs to have dual movements at least.
Yeah, at five o'clock, you're backed up to racetrack, which is three to four lights to get through. Correct.
Yes, Councilmember and we are absolutely looking into that we've actually already contacted the local office, and we're talking about that area. And I understand there's only one that can go straight one that can turn right, right and one that can turn left so one lane, and then you're going underneath
where the bridge has multiple lanes and so in those multiple lanes continue on on to the new 377 so we are definitely looking at that we've been having conversations with textile, and then hope to have some kind of resolution here as soon so I do appreciate you bringing
that to our attention.
Other questions or comments.
I want to say I'm marking January 2022 on my calendar for the improvements at 35 the interim improvements to 35 and 380. Thank you very much for hearing and communicating our collective cry.
All right, that'll conclude that item. Thanks very much Mr poster, and let's move on then to item see receiver report and hold the discussion regarding updates from the Denton County Transportation Authority.
We have. And Councilmember Meltzer I'm, I'm sorry to let you know we have still not received any correspondence this morning via either text or email from DC ta I know they have a scheduling conflict and we're going to have another individual join us
today to give that presentation, and they've yet to join us so I apologize for that but do not want to and cannot speak on their behalf so definitely something that will reach out and see if they have any.
If everything's okay. So we're not sure what the situation is at this time but have not heard anything from them yet. So, with that, that is really all that we have today and so we're not going to be able to have a presentation on that item.
Yeah, I, to the extent that you have communication, if you know I keep hearing. Well I heard a comment yesterday and counsel from member of the public, suggesting that same tone that it's a fait accompli that we're moving from fixed
to to on demand when that was has been had been presented as such as a pilot program to evaluate, and I would just
remind you that it may come up in your conversations that I warned against creeping conviction that if there is that we have to be open to see what the data actually tells us, and not be not a blinders on.
I hope it works out open provides greater convenience and, you know, at good cost and improves public transportation but let's you know let's see what actually happens.
That's my message.
I strongly second that I said it better myself.
I appreciate that feedback will definitely pass that along I did hear the same sentiments in the council meeting yesterday and so definitely something that we can pass along to DC ta.
Thanks. No problem. That's what Ryan point that point counterpoint.
Yeah, I think that once people because I've been in a lot more meetings about that, as far as the on demand I think is it is it's implemented people actually like a lot better.
Yeah, I mean, change always, you know, makes me yeah nobody likes change but this is, you know, the response time is much faster on this you're not having to wait as long as what you currently do.
Well, I'm very hopeful.
Not so hopeful that I don't want to see what actually happens. So, so let's close that item for today and the only thing remaining is identified items of interest for future consideration.
So I don't know if you have anything you wanted to tee up, Becky or if you just sort of sort of a placeholder for us to bring anything. Yes, sir, that's actually just a location for if there's anything additional I know last meeting we talked about
a feedback and update as we will continue to do on the senior planner bicycle pedestrian and ADA position, and then any future items that you have what I'm my goal is is to have a running log of those items, so that staff can bring them back to you some
of the items may take a little bit longer to do research on. And so I want to make sure that we're scheduling those appropriately and addressing the concerns as they are received and so.
Really, the exhibit that you see in your packet is, it's just kind of the start of what I hope to be able to present and bring those items back to you. I know one specifically that Councilmember Ryan brought up today is that 377 interchange at three at 35.
Too many highways I'll start with the same number three. So, so but we definitely that's one that we're looking into and so we will have a response back and more than likely that will happen in advance of the next mobility committee meeting but if there's
anything additional that you would like to bring up now would be a perfect time for you to do so, so that we can bring those back and address the concerns as we receive them.
Can we go for the unmute button Councilmember armature.
No. Okay.
As well Ryan anything you'd like to tip.
This is already kind of in the works I've already put forward but probably would work well on this and that is the T's Lee and Hobson. If you're on T's Lee turning right on the Hobson.
The radius there is not large enough for trucks with trailers, and I'm talking about a pickup truck with a lot of equipment on the back.
That's, it's very difficult to maneuver, and it may just be some restriping that needs to be done but I've seen several times or that intersection gets stopped because they have to wait for the light to clear Hobson so they can make it the rest
of the way around.
You know sir, I absolutely understand I think we have received that question, and I know that that's something that Daniel Kramer who was here was absolutely looking into so definitely something that's on the list that is being evaluated as far as
that turning movement, and so it's specifically for folks just so I understand and this is the way I understood the comment that came through is for folks that are traveling on T's Lee to make the right hand turn to get on to Hobson Lane near the church that's
located at that intersection. It's just that they don't have the ability to make the turn due to the radius right there without actually going over the curb.
It may just be due to the skew of the intersection. Is that correct sir. That's correct. Okay, it may just be putting the stop line further back so that cars that are on Hobson don't make this far forward.
It may be an actual curb and adding just a little bit more to that radius may just be striping and moving a mobile but just to take a look at how we can make it easier for it because that's it.
It's more than a normal 90 degree turn right there. You're actually going backwards so when you're trying to pull something behind you it's very difficult.
No, I appreciate those comments. Thank you and will definitely continue to look into that I know, like I mentioned Danny is looking at that intersection.
Any items to tip.
I have one that seems to have fallen off the list.
Well please let me know.
I'm talking about and I do, I do openly reveal that I live on West Oak Street so I see this all the time, but we've talked a number of times about West Oak Street from Bradley West.
That's a roller coaster.
I'm interested in a solution, but I'm at least equally interested in a root cause analysis.
So that we can identify what steps are are maybe missing I don't know if it's the only place in Denton, where you know relatively new construction has turned into, you know, such a roller coaster.
But, you know, and maybe you'll tell me it's completely isolated in which case, I'm just interested in solution but it's, you know, I think it's kind of an embarrassment that that this happened, and it should be fixed so I would at least say assessment or something to
identify next steps regarding that section of street.
Thank you for that, and we will definitely look into that.
That actually reminds me I had shaken my head no I have nothing else to add.
That reminds me of concern on Hickory that the part of Hickory that is that intersects with with Bonnie Bray. I had made a report on this before and there was supposed.
I made a report I mean just, you know, submitted a kind of concern to to counsel and to staff and there was something in a Friday report saying they were going to do a traffic study in that area.
And I had noticed, and heard from residents in that area you know and also witnessed that cars go really fast, kind of coming like off the highway or off Bonnie Bray down that beginning part of Hickory now and as you go down I guess that would be going east on Hickory.
My sense is that people tend to slow down.
But people go really fast, coming off there and it's an area that, you know, young families live there they're kids, seniors with disabilities.
And so it's just it's concerning. There's also an issue right around there that I haven't reported but I have noticed, and that is Avenue G is divided into two, and I know I believe it was Mayor Pro Tem Davis who had asked for a
community of some sort on kind of streets that split up into two where they really are two separate streets that have the same name and it's confusing to people.
At least that's what I recall that he had brought that up. Avenue G, it is I'm not sure if it quite counts as that in my mind it does, but there's Hickory, and Hickory is a one way. And you have people who are going down Avenue G from Oak Street,
who want to continue on Avenue G. But to continue on Avenue G which kind of splits up.
You have to make an illegal right, and basically go the wrong way down Hickory.
And I have I have seen that, because I drive down part of Hickory a lot I've seen that a number of times.
People do that. And now there's a one way sign right there that intersection so I don't know if they're not seeing the sign, or if they're just saying, oh, there's no one here.
I have no idea what people are thinking. Maybe simply changing the street name, and I know that's complicated people have to change their mailing address, but so that it's, they don't see it as a continuation of the same street but a different street maybe that would help.
But, but that's a real concern, and I bet, you know, if you just had someone monitor that you know you would probably see multiple times a day, people do that, and it's just it's really an accident, waiting to happen I don't know if there's been one.
I guess is that it probably has something to do with the fact that the street is split into two and it has the same name, you know, so people were planning, they had it in their mind they're going to keep going down Avenue G, and they're not going to let the fact that
there's a one way street going the wrong way. Stop them.
So I don't know what the solutions are but it is a problem.
Thank you for bringing that to our attention and let us look into that we can see if there's been any accidents in that area and if there's any improvements that can be made at that intersection that will help so no I appreciate you bringing that to our attention
thank you very much.
Okay.
Anything else.
Seeing no other movement.