WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:09.520 chair correct. Hey, um, welcome to Traffic Safety Commission. Um, we call for our call 00:00:09.520 --> 00:00:15.360 to order. We do now have a quorum of four of seven members, so the meeting may come 00:00:15.360 --> 00:00:22.320 to order. Um, so we do not have any presentations or comments from the public, so we will go 00:00:22.320 --> 00:00:30.880 right into our items for today. Um, and so item, uh, a TSC 21005 consider the approval 00:00:30.880 --> 00:00:37.240 of minutes from March 3rd, 2021. Um, do we, are there any corrections that are needed 00:00:37.240 --> 00:00:44.440 for last month's meeting? I'd like to correct that. We discussed holding the meetings on 00:00:44.440 --> 00:00:53.000 the third Monday rather than the third Wednesday. Okay. Do we, for a meeting correction, do 00:00:53.000 --> 00:00:59.880 we need any kind of, any kind of vote on that? Or can we just, is that just go on the record? 00:00:59.880 --> 00:01:05.360 It can go on the record and you can, as a body, approve the minutes as, as, as corrected. 00:01:05.360 --> 00:01:10.480 Okay. All right. So having said that, are there any other corrections needed for the 00:01:10.480 --> 00:01:21.440 minutes? All right. So if there aren't any other, then we just need to vote on the minutes 00:01:21.440 --> 00:01:26.880 with the one correction from commissioner Thurman. Um, does everyone approve of the 00:01:26.880 --> 00:01:32.560 minutes, including commissioner Thurman's, uh, recommendation that it's say the first, 00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:37.640 uh, the third Monday instead of the third Wednesday of the month? Uh, all in favor we'll, 00:01:37.640 --> 00:01:41.720 we'll do, go ahead. Actually chair, can we go ahead and do it with a motion and a second? 00:01:41.720 --> 00:01:48.520 They can move to approve and then second the roll call vote because we're on zoom. Yep. 00:01:48.520 --> 00:01:54.160 Can we, can we get a motion to approve, uh, commissioner Thurman's, uh, addition and the 00:01:54.160 --> 00:02:01.960 minutes? I motion to approve Clay Thurman's addition to the minutes. Anyone want to say, 00:02:01.960 --> 00:02:06.440 okay, say seconds. All right. So can we, we're going to have to go ahead and go through a 00:02:06.440 --> 00:02:10.360 vote. So I'll, I'll name each commissioner and you can just give me a yay or nay to prove 00:02:10.360 --> 00:02:20.680 it. Um, commissioner Clark. Yay. Commissioner Thurman. Yay. And commissioner sample. I saw 00:02:20.680 --> 00:02:24.260 a yay, but I think you're muted still. I don't know if you're able to unmute. Do we need 00:02:24.260 --> 00:02:32.120 him? Do we need him to unmute for it? Okay. Can you hear me now? Yep. Can hear you. Yay. 00:02:32.120 --> 00:02:38.000 All right. So, and I also, uh, vote yay. So the minutes are approved with the correction 00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:45.360 from commissioner Thurman. All right. Um, onto our next item, item B TST 21 zero zero 00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:49.080 six receiver report, hold a discussion and consider making a recommendation regarding 00:02:49.080 --> 00:02:55.480 the frame street closure for the didn't police department facility and city hall east renovations. 00:02:55.480 --> 00:03:14.240 Thank you chair. I am going to share my screen and make a short presentation to you. Can 00:03:14.240 --> 00:03:22.120 everyone see my screen? Fantastic. So want to talk to you a little bit today about the 00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:26.380 frame street closure. Um, just to give you a little bit of a background, the closure 00:03:26.380 --> 00:03:31.920 is requested for the Denton police headquarters construction project. Uh, that project began 00:03:31.920 --> 00:03:39.640 on January 15th, um, is expected to be substantially complete by next June, 2022. Um, the frame 00:03:39.640 --> 00:03:44.520 street closure was requested specifically by the police department for security reasons. 00:03:44.520 --> 00:03:50.600 Um, and that request was made back in July, um, of last year, um, following the feedback 00:03:50.600 --> 00:03:55.040 from the traffic safety commission. Um, we also will be making the presentation as a 00:03:55.040 --> 00:04:00.560 staff update to mobility committee. Um, then we will be producing with our public affairs 00:04:00.560 --> 00:04:06.640 team notification for the adjacent, uh, property owners and residents in the area. Um, we've 00:04:06.640 --> 00:04:12.960 been coordinating with the solid waste department, um, for delivery service to the facility during 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:17.880 and after construction. Um, there's some temporary delivery items that had to be taken care of 00:04:17.880 --> 00:04:22.760 right now from a dumpster access, um, point, and then we'll also be coordinating, uh, with 00:04:22.760 --> 00:04:28.960 that final construction, uh, and the final location of those dumpsters. Um, and then 00:04:28.960 --> 00:04:33.940 staff will have signage, um, installed that will notify the motorists about the changes 00:04:33.940 --> 00:04:40.720 to the traffic pattern. Um, and then also, um, an update to the GIS maps. Thought I would 00:04:40.720 --> 00:04:44.580 show you a little bit of a map to kind of explain what's happening. If you drive along 00:04:44.580 --> 00:04:49.480 McKinney street today, you will see that there is already some demolition going on 00:04:49.480 --> 00:04:56.000 in the area. The yellow highlight is a boundary box that really kind of shows the location 00:04:56.000 --> 00:05:01.960 of the Denton police headquarters facility, uh, what we also call kind of city hall east. 00:05:01.960 --> 00:05:10.080 Um, this is, um, railroad, um, and then Hickory street. So it's very interesting. This is 00:05:10.080 --> 00:05:15.880 actually frame street and this is actually oak. So currently right now the police department 00:05:15.880 --> 00:05:20.400 is parking in this vicinity and I'm gonna zoom in just a little bit so it'll make the 00:05:20.400 --> 00:05:25.720 picture a little bit bigger. Um, and so what you can see is, um, there's a proposed to 00:05:25.720 --> 00:05:31.520 have a security gate in this location and this location that will still allow for access 00:05:31.520 --> 00:05:37.880 to this facility that's located right here. And then also this facility and this facility. 00:05:37.880 --> 00:05:43.680 And I'm going to show you that on the next slide, um, a little bit more detail that kind 00:05:43.680 --> 00:05:50.060 of shows you the overview of what the, um, headquarters renovation proposed site plan. 00:05:50.060 --> 00:05:56.400 So as you can see, there will be all of the parking located here and then parking located 00:05:56.400 --> 00:06:00.860 here. Um, what is maybe a little bit difficult to see from the screen is that there's going 00:06:00.860 --> 00:06:06.080 to be public parking spaces in this area, but this little line with the circles is actually 00:06:06.080 --> 00:06:15.800 the perimeter fencing. So this entire area will be fenced for security purposes all the 00:06:15.800 --> 00:06:22.480 way around the facility. Um, so right here there will be a secure entrance and then also 00:06:22.480 --> 00:06:28.760 in this location will be a secure secured entrance. Um, this will allow the police department 00:06:28.760 --> 00:06:34.240 to come into the facility, use the security entrance and then park in the, um, covered 00:06:34.240 --> 00:06:39.120 parking area or in the secure police parking location. The same thing can happen off of 00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:45.280 McKinney. They can come in on frame street and park in the secured area. So essentially 00:06:45.280 --> 00:06:50.840 the entire parking lot for the police department, all of their vehicles, equipment will be located 00:06:50.840 --> 00:06:56.360 within the fence secured area. You can see the existing building. There are some additional 00:06:56.360 --> 00:07:02.740 features that are being added to that, that our facilities, um, uh, management and facility 00:07:02.740 --> 00:07:08.200 team is, is handling. Um, and so just wanted to kind of show you a graphic of, you know, 00:07:08.200 --> 00:07:11.760 what it looked like today versus what it's going to look like in the future is quite 00:07:11.760 --> 00:07:16.400 a bit of parking. And really that's the reason behind, um, the request for the closure of 00:07:16.400 --> 00:07:22.320 frame. And then of course, this is also called Oak to allow for those security fencing to 00:07:22.320 --> 00:07:26.400 be installed, those security gates so that all of the parking of the police department 00:07:26.400 --> 00:07:31.440 and other facilities, um, individuals that are coming to the police department location 00:07:31.440 --> 00:07:38.560 will be housed. Um, I know one question that may have been on your mind is, um, this is 00:07:38.560 --> 00:07:42.960 Hickory street and you know, part of our concern was, is if we close this road, does it negatively 00:07:42.960 --> 00:07:51.040 impact the actual traffic for the existing, uh, locations, you know, along this, uh, border 00:07:51.040 --> 00:07:56.080 and what this is, and it's a little bit difficult to see probably, um, but it actually is, um, 00:07:56.080 --> 00:08:02.000 a vehicle turnaround truck turnaround where we actually had the turning radius is put 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:07.120 in so that you could see if a car turns, comes down, makes it to this point realizes, oh 00:08:07.120 --> 00:08:11.440 my goodness, there's a fence there. I can't go through. They can actually back up and 00:08:11.440 --> 00:08:17.760 then come straight out. Also in this vicinity, there's a probability and proposal of putting 00:08:17.760 --> 00:08:22.120 some of the dumpsters in this location. So I wanted to make sure that those vehicles 00:08:22.120 --> 00:08:30.960 could actually make those turning movements. And what staff is asking is for your recommendation 00:08:30.960 --> 00:08:37.200 on the closure of frame street. Um, you have the opportunity to approve frame street, um, 00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:44.520 decline the frame street closure, um, or provide a staff with any kind of alternative, um, 00:08:44.520 --> 00:08:50.320 recommendations. Um, actually what will happen in the next steps is an ordinance. If, if 00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:55.600 you so I choose to approve to close the roadway, um, an ordinance to close the roadway and 00:08:55.600 --> 00:09:02.760 obtain the right away. Um, and that plan is to be presented to council on the 27th. So 00:09:02.760 --> 00:09:10.800 with that, I'm going to stop sharing and then, um, open it up for discussion. 00:09:10.800 --> 00:09:14.520 Thank you for the presentation. Yeah. And so Robert's rules of orders. We'll try to 00:09:14.520 --> 00:09:18.600 just, just either indicate by hand. I'll keep an eye on the screens if you have questions 00:09:18.600 --> 00:09:25.760 and I'll try to call on you, uh, commissioner. All right. So my concern is all the folks 00:09:25.760 --> 00:09:32.440 that one bike through that space. When you look at a heat map on Strava, you can see 00:09:32.440 --> 00:09:42.280 that most people who bike use that space because when you go over to the, when you cross McKinney 00:09:42.280 --> 00:09:48.200 to the French street on the other side, that's how people are getting across. It's a really 00:09:48.200 --> 00:09:57.040 short space between the frame street right behind the police station and the next one. 00:09:57.040 --> 00:10:04.440 You can go down to Bradshaw and cross on that space, but the gap between those two roads, 00:10:04.440 --> 00:10:10.400 it's much greater. And so, um, there's a, I mean, you know, we all know McKinney is 00:10:10.400 --> 00:10:17.120 a, is very, there's a high, lots of traffic on McKinney. So you have to watch both ways. 00:10:17.120 --> 00:10:24.960 You have to make sure it's clear on either side. And then to get across is, um, is tricky. 00:10:24.960 --> 00:10:34.600 So secondly, what about all those folks who are on the B the East North side of town? 00:10:34.600 --> 00:10:43.240 How are they also getting to the train station? So is there alternatives to this space for 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:51.920 people who need to cross over McKinney and to clarify. So you're, they're coming off 00:10:51.920 --> 00:10:55.800 of McKinney commissioner car. And then they would be, you're concerned that they go down 00:10:55.800 --> 00:11:06.000 frame street. Is that, that's down. So what's happening. If you look at a heat map on Strava, 00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:15.880 people are using that space, that frame street Oak street to what it, um, Hickory, they use 00:11:15.880 --> 00:11:22.200 that a lot. I mean, it's, it's on the heat map. That is a major space for people who 00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:30.520 use, who cycle. And so, um, because it goes both ways versus railroad, which is a one 00:11:30.520 --> 00:11:38.720 way and it's a small gap between those, between when you go from, when you cross frame street 00:11:38.720 --> 00:11:44.600 from behind the fires, from the behind the police station, and then you go across to 00:11:44.600 --> 00:11:50.400 the frame street on the other side of McKinney, it's a really small gap versus all the other 00:11:50.400 --> 00:11:57.880 places damn. And the only other safe place to cross McKinney, you have to go all the 00:11:57.880 --> 00:12:04.480 way up to civic center where they have the flashing lights and nobody wants to do that. 00:12:04.480 --> 00:12:09.720 Nobody, I mean, how are you getting there when you're on the Northeast side of town? 00:12:09.720 --> 00:12:18.640 So is there an alternative? I get why the police want to do what they want to do, but 00:12:18.640 --> 00:12:31.800 only generate like some other space, safe space for people to cross McKinney. 00:12:31.800 --> 00:12:37.920 I think that's something that we can look at and discuss with the individuals that are 00:12:37.920 --> 00:12:46.240 actually responsible for the Denton police facility and see if there's any other changes 00:12:46.240 --> 00:12:52.360 that they are welcome to listen to. At this point, that's not something that actually 00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:59.000 has been discussed, but we're willing based on your conversation and comments that you 00:12:59.000 --> 00:13:04.960 have to bring that up to those folks and the facilities team that are working on the construction 00:13:04.960 --> 00:13:09.360 of this facility based on the concerns that you raised today. 00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:16.240 And I can, I've got a screenshot of this Java heat map if you want to see it too. Sure. 00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:21.200 That may be something that we'll ask to reach out to you at a future timeframe. You know, 00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:31.040 I understand the concern that you've mentioned. I think this needs some safe, some safe ways 00:13:31.040 --> 00:13:37.720 to cross McKinney. It's not a whole lot of them. And people are trying to get around 00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:45.360 the city while, you know, on either on foot or, you know, by we need, and they're trying 00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:51.360 to get to you the train station. They need safe spaces to do that. And right now there's 00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:57.080 not, there's really not that many. And thank you, commissioner. I also know I've 00:13:57.080 --> 00:14:01.800 run through that area and it's just not a very navigable area. So those, I've used those 00:14:01.800 --> 00:14:06.840 streets before kind of to pass safely because as I think commissioner sample has brought 00:14:06.840 --> 00:14:11.480 up in the past that McKinney doesn't have a safe crossing, right? It's, it's incredibly 00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:15.600 unsafe. And so part of the problem is, is we haven't, we have a larger problem that 00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:21.360 this whole area has not been made safe for pedestrians. So people use these side streets. 00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:27.960 I think Chandra has had her hand up. So maybe we should let her chime in real quick. 00:14:27.960 --> 00:14:37.320 Thank you commissioner. And to answer commissioner Carr's concern, there is future road diet 00:14:37.320 --> 00:14:43.600 plans for McKinney since it's a four lane. And there were discussions before to have 00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:49.880 that as a one lane in each direction with the center turn lanes. And when that happens, 00:14:49.880 --> 00:14:56.800 we can consider installing hawk signals. I think we considered one further east on justice 00:14:56.800 --> 00:15:03.840 peace center. So if that is not feasible anymore, then we can consider by either Bradshaw or 00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:09.960 frame to make that safe crossing in the future, but we need to do the studies and confirm 00:15:09.960 --> 00:15:17.680 that. So that should not be a hindrance. And also on the future bond, mingo will be having 00:15:17.680 --> 00:15:24.760 separated bike lanes. So that will have a continuous bike lanes on Bell mingo. So that 00:15:24.760 --> 00:15:30.480 should address the concerns that commission card has today. 00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:34.600 And if I can, I mean, sidewalks, we just don't even have sidewalks correct that that are 00:15:34.600 --> 00:15:39.440 continuous on we don't even, so it's not even about even restructuring the whole road, but 00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:44.480 starting with sidewalks. So people, I mean, McKinney is probably one of the worst examples. 00:15:44.480 --> 00:15:47.280 Commissioner sample commissioner sample has his hand up. 00:15:47.280 --> 00:15:52.840 Yeah, I just want to chime in on what was being said when you're coming down McKinney 00:15:52.840 --> 00:16:01.040 to take their street away. People use that street because McKinney is not safe. On some 00:16:01.040 --> 00:16:07.280 part of McKinney. I think I'm on the right side. If you go into a salvation army, you 00:16:07.280 --> 00:16:14.880 don't have a sidewalk until you get down by the courthouse. So to try to cross and take 00:16:14.880 --> 00:16:23.360 up that to take away that much. I wouldn't want to see that. And then again, how long 00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:29.580 would it how long with the person be up a year, two years or what was it? What's the 00:16:29.580 --> 00:16:35.920 time frame of them blocking it off? It's is it it's my it's permanent is not 00:16:35.920 --> 00:16:40.520 is that correct that it's meant to be permanent? Yes, sir. It's meant to be permanent. It's 00:16:40.520 --> 00:16:45.680 going to be a permanent location for the Denton Police Department to house their vehicles 00:16:45.680 --> 00:16:50.880 and park with a secured fencing site. So it's going to be a permanent structure that will 00:16:50.880 --> 00:16:59.920 be installed. And I guess for me, I've always said, if you take something away from from 00:16:59.920 --> 00:17:05.800 pedestrians, you have to give something back to them. You know what I mean? And so everybody 00:17:05.800 --> 00:17:12.560 can still remain safe. If if the pedestrian and bikers are using that area, we're both 00:17:12.560 --> 00:17:16.360 not taking something away from them. What are we going to put in a place to make sure 00:17:16.360 --> 00:17:23.800 that they're safe in this area? Sure, no, I think all your your comments are valid. 00:17:23.800 --> 00:17:29.000 I think what probably is best for us to do is look into, like Chandra mentioned, the 00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:35.640 future projects in this area, along with the future sidewalks, the future crossing that 00:17:35.640 --> 00:17:40.740 we could provide and look at it overall and do the studies appropriately to understand 00:17:40.740 --> 00:17:46.560 what the traffic patterns are, not only from a traffic perspective, but also from a vehicular 00:17:46.560 --> 00:17:51.120 bicycle and then also pedestrian perspective to see if there's additional things that need 00:17:51.120 --> 00:17:55.720 to happen in order for this roadway to close. And one of the things that's also going through 00:17:55.720 --> 00:18:00.560 my mind is I understand the entire police facility will not be closed until June of 00:18:00.560 --> 00:18:06.040 twenty twenty two. So that does give the city some time to look into other things that could 00:18:06.040 --> 00:18:10.640 happen in this area. I don't know exactly when their time frame and I could get with 00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:18.440 the group that's doing the police headquarters to find out exactly what the time frame is. 00:18:18.440 --> 00:18:22.840 But I would not anticipate at this point that they're actually going to be wanting to close 00:18:22.840 --> 00:18:28.040 that immediately. So I think there's something we could do to work with them on when they're 00:18:28.040 --> 00:18:33.720 actually going to be doing the installation of the fencing and and coordinate that with 00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:40.440 some future type of improvement to allow for the crossing of McKinney Street specifically 00:18:40.440 --> 00:18:45.880 related to some of the comments that Chandra made to maybe address some of these concerns. 00:18:45.880 --> 00:18:49.800 If that's something y'all like for us to look into and discuss with them and bring back 00:18:49.800 --> 00:18:55.320 at a later date, I think that that's it's really up to the commission as to how you 00:18:55.320 --> 00:19:04.740 would like for us to proceed forward. I have one more question. Okay. If they if they plan 00:19:04.740 --> 00:19:12.840 on closing this down and moving over all for 288, why are they putting a fence up here? 00:19:12.840 --> 00:19:17.760 I'm sorry, I'm not following your question. The police station that's down on Hickory, 00:19:17.760 --> 00:19:24.360 right? That's where they close it off. Well, they're building another. Am I correct that 00:19:24.360 --> 00:19:30.640 they're building another one on 288, that big building across Maldives? I'm sorry, sir. 00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:36.000 The area down on loop 288 right by Aldi that you're referencing, I believe you're referencing 00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:42.840 the county building, not the city. Okay, okay. I just want to make sure before. Okay, I understand 00:19:42.840 --> 00:19:46.920 that I guess I was getting across because I thought everything down here. I thought everything 00:19:46.920 --> 00:19:52.560 down here was moving over there. Yes, sir. The county facilities are being constructed 00:19:52.560 --> 00:19:59.040 along loop 288 along with a future DPS facility in that area, but it will not be city facilities. 00:19:59.040 --> 00:20:06.920 Okay, okay. That was my mix up. That was just my mix up. I'm sorry about that. Okay. I make 00:20:06.920 --> 00:20:10.960 the same. I have to have trouble following the difference between city and county buildings 00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:17.400 all the time. So I understand that one. I so a question I have and maybe I missed this 00:20:17.400 --> 00:20:20.840 in the presentation, you may have already addressed this Becky. So I apologize if I'm 00:20:20.840 --> 00:20:26.600 re-hashing. Why are the parking lots, the parking lots just not secure? Why do they 00:20:26.600 --> 00:20:32.680 need to close the streets? Right? Like why not just, why not just build around the parking 00:20:32.680 --> 00:20:38.000 lots? I'm just confused why the street needs to be closed. Exactly. Chandra, I think has 00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:46.600 a comment. Yes, commissioner chair. This is Chandra. There were instances that I've been 00:20:46.600 --> 00:20:53.040 told that police parked during those early morning hours that they park and cross the 00:20:53.040 --> 00:21:00.720 street. There were incidences that were unsafe for the police. And this is a couple of years 00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:10.240 ago they had like incidents of that latest saying that they have to cross and the street 00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:15.760 has been, the facility is on located on the south side and the parking is on the north 00:21:15.760 --> 00:21:24.520 side. So it was told to us that you never know what can do and the public and the visitors, 00:21:24.520 --> 00:21:31.040 anybody can use that street that will divide that facility. So if it's a one block when 00:21:31.040 --> 00:21:37.000 they enter and they can secure, they can have all those secure features inside. So they 00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:43.680 will have like a, that is what the renovations will accomplish as like instead of separate 00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:49.480 facilities on buildings on the west side and the parking on the northern side and the other 00:21:49.480 --> 00:21:56.480 buildings on the south side, they want to have one secure facility. So if I'm understand 00:21:56.480 --> 00:22:02.920 correctly, the police feel unsafe crossing the street between the parking lot and the 00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:09.520 building? Yes, I think there were some instances that happened during the midnight or early 00:22:09.520 --> 00:22:16.600 morning hours. So they feel that they have to secure the facilities since they have those 00:22:16.600 --> 00:22:23.200 things there. So I can find out more details on what was that and I can communicate back. 00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:28.160 Sure. I would love to know more, a little bit more about that because it is troubling 00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:33.920 to think the idea of closing public streets with gates because I mean, it's, it feels 00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:37.800 like the wrong solution. If, if I may put that forward, right. It feels like closing 00:22:37.800 --> 00:22:42.000 the street, if there's some kind of security issues, because I mean the, it's not the rest 00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:46.120 of the building would still be as accessible to the public as anything else. And so if 00:22:46.120 --> 00:22:50.280 there's security issues here, I think I'm curious to know more about those, but closing 00:22:50.280 --> 00:22:55.400 entire public streets for that purpose. I mean, we don't do that anywhere else in the 00:22:55.400 --> 00:23:01.080 city. So it seems very out of line within any other policy that exists. I've never really 00:23:01.080 --> 00:23:08.120 heard of that closing public streets. So, so police can cross the street. And that takes 00:23:08.120 --> 00:23:12.280 away a lot of access. So I'm fairly confused about why the street needs to be closed, you 00:23:12.280 --> 00:23:14.360 know, closed now that we're hearing more about it. 00:23:14.360 --> 00:23:20.240 Well, I think the answer to the question for, and we're happy to bring the facilities team 00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:27.040 and the PD back to answer any specific questions that you have. And I think really the comment 00:23:27.040 --> 00:23:31.420 at this point is that the facility, the police department was parking on the south side of 00:23:31.420 --> 00:23:36.240 Hickory, which was a disconnect between the facility along with not enough parking for 00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:41.720 their entire facility. And so what their hopes are is with closing off this area, having 00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:48.000 a gated locked in area for all of the patrol vehicles, any of the additional police vehicles 00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:53.360 where they're building an entire area, which is more of a headquarters type scenario where 00:23:53.360 --> 00:23:57.760 they have entrance from either the frame or the Oak Street area to be able to park their 00:23:57.760 --> 00:24:03.480 vehicles. And I think that's, that's really the purpose of their request. I will also 00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:08.120 tell you that based on the traffic that we've seen kind of going through that area, it's 00:24:08.120 --> 00:24:13.520 very minimal in nature based on the information that we have that there's not a lot of traffic 00:24:13.520 --> 00:24:18.920 that actually takes that roadway due to the configuration. It sounds like a commissioner 00:24:18.920 --> 00:24:23.760 or car has expressed that it's definitely something that from a bicycle standpoint that's 00:24:23.760 --> 00:24:29.840 being used. But from our information that we have to date, it's not a typical path of 00:24:29.840 --> 00:24:36.480 a vehicle that travels through that area. So it sounds like you have, you know, quite 00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:42.960 a few comments and questions that you have brought up. So definitely want to do our best 00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:48.440 to answer any of the questions or concerns that you might have and have the other individuals 00:24:48.440 --> 00:24:55.400 a part of the conversation. I know they're very much interested in working to, you know, 00:24:55.400 --> 00:25:01.960 secure that entire facility and have all of their vehicles, all of their equipment housed 00:25:01.960 --> 00:25:07.840 in a secured site, similar to how we have other sites along the city that are, you know, 00:25:07.840 --> 00:25:12.560 completely gated areas such as the service center that have, you know, kind of that overall 00:25:12.560 --> 00:25:18.640 gated area too. So I think that's really what their request is, is being able to have a 00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:23.760 facility that is a gated facility that all of their vehicles can be parked in and allow 00:25:23.760 --> 00:25:31.640 them access to that area, as you can tell. Does the service center, did they have closed 00:25:31.640 --> 00:25:37.100 streets that were previously public that they closed at the service center location? I would 00:25:37.100 --> 00:25:44.760 have to look into that question. There is a road, a major road that dead ends into the 00:25:44.760 --> 00:25:50.120 service center. If you've ever been over in that area, both roadways dead end and then 00:25:50.120 --> 00:25:54.440 it's closed in that area for where the actual service center is. But I would have to look 00:25:54.440 --> 00:25:58.560 to see if there's an ordinance or a document that showed that closure. I do not know that 00:25:58.560 --> 00:26:04.660 information off the top of my head. Okay, well, and one other thing I worry about 00:26:04.660 --> 00:26:08.680 a little bit is thinking through the unintended consequences to have this, for example, say 00:26:08.680 --> 00:26:14.600 there's a wreck on McKinney right in that vicinity, right? And this would be a means 00:26:14.600 --> 00:26:18.200 for people, for example, to get out of the traffic situation. I wonder about things like 00:26:18.200 --> 00:26:22.560 that might be considered other unintended consequences. Well, so I think our options 00:26:22.560 --> 00:26:27.560 today they give us three options on the agenda. It says approved French reclosures requested 00:26:27.560 --> 00:26:33.120 decline French reclosures requested provide staff with alternative direction. I don't 00:26:33.120 --> 00:26:41.360 know. Do we need to vote on one of those three? Is that correct? Trey, can you verify that? 00:26:41.360 --> 00:26:46.880 If you're doing a like a straight up approval or or denial or even like an approval with 00:26:46.880 --> 00:26:51.280 a comment, that would be a vote. If it's just staff direction, you would not need a vote 00:26:51.280 --> 00:27:00.160 on staff direction. Okay, so from the commission, I mean, we those are those are our choices. 00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:07.720 I mean, do we? So it's a challenging to figure out how to answer this, because I would like 00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:12.720 to know more, right? And I almost wonder if we could delay this. And if somebody wants 00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:17.400 to come and present us with more information, but also if the maybe the police could explain 00:27:17.400 --> 00:27:22.000 more the reasons for this if they wanted to attend, but then also could the city possibly 00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:26.120 investigate some of these alternate issues that we're bringing up, for example, like 00:27:26.120 --> 00:27:31.520 could could the could even building something like this be paired with improvements to the 00:27:31.520 --> 00:27:36.720 area, right? Could those be done simultaneously so that if there was something so so we could 00:27:36.720 --> 00:27:41.200 at least know what the options are aside from just closing this, because right now as presented, 00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:46.240 I think we're just being asked, should we go forward with this or not? It seems like 00:27:46.240 --> 00:27:52.800 there's a lot of questions. So is that can we delay this? Is that Commissioner Carr and 00:27:52.800 --> 00:27:56.380 Commissioner Thurmond and Commissioner sample? I'd love to hear you. Would you all be interested 00:27:56.380 --> 00:28:02.240 in in delaying this and learning more? I'll go in order Commissioner Carr. Go ahead. I 00:28:02.240 --> 00:28:07.640 would agree. I'd like to see if you know, we can parlay this into, you know, another 00:28:07.640 --> 00:28:16.400 way to cross McKinney and edits and in a safer way. That's what I would like to see. Okay. 00:28:16.400 --> 00:28:21.240 So that that's one. That's a that would probably fit under the alternative direction. Commissioner 00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:24.600 Thurmond and I'll come to Commissioner sample. Commissioner Thurmond, what are your thoughts? 00:28:24.600 --> 00:28:30.920 Yeah, I'd like to see this brought back with more information from police and from traffic. 00:28:30.920 --> 00:28:38.280 I have used that street before, both as a motorist and as a cyclist. It's not an everyday 00:28:38.280 --> 00:28:47.600 street. I'll admit that. But I think there's too many questions for us to give a straight 00:28:47.600 --> 00:28:57.680 up or down vote right now. And I would really like to see for come up with safer crossings 00:28:57.680 --> 00:29:08.200 for cyclists and pedestrians. As Melissa mentions about Strava, Strava kind of measures what 00:29:08.200 --> 00:29:14.000 I would call your elite cyclist because they're going to have the technology and they're the 00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:21.640 more hardcore riders. But those people also happen to follow a lot of tracks that everyday 00:29:21.640 --> 00:29:29.080 people use. And there's a lot of everyday people that are not being counted that Strava 00:29:29.080 --> 00:29:35.360 doesn't count. But I would say that Strava is kind of like they're following the path 00:29:35.360 --> 00:29:40.480 of least resistance. One of the things when we're making trails and things, we look for 00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:45.080 a cow trail, and that's where the traffic is. And so that's a good place to base your 00:29:45.080 --> 00:29:52.800 trails off of. So I'd like to see this come back with more input from the police of why 00:29:52.800 --> 00:29:59.000 they want it, why they think it's necessary, and from traffic of what options we could 00:29:59.000 --> 00:30:04.200 put in. Since this doesn't sound like something that's going to happen right away, I would 00:30:04.200 --> 00:30:11.360 like to see something in place in advance of some of these other major improvements. 00:30:11.360 --> 00:30:15.300 Thank you, Commissioner Thurmond. And also one point you made me think of is have we 00:30:15.300 --> 00:30:19.660 asked the people that live right next, the closest to the street, right, on the housing 00:30:19.660 --> 00:30:24.480 back in that area and those businesses, like whether, you know, how their feelings of the 00:30:24.480 --> 00:30:31.720 street being closed and how that would affect them. Commissioner Sample, what are your thoughts? 00:30:31.720 --> 00:30:40.040 I guess I would need to hear more if it's, I guess blatantly it's, I don't feel comfortable 00:30:40.040 --> 00:30:43.860 closing something because the police say they feel uncomfortable when we're crossing the 00:30:43.860 --> 00:30:51.840 street. I mean, and that's my biggest drawback. You know, let's, I think we got to need to 00:30:51.840 --> 00:30:59.040 hear more about it. Pacific, the real reason why they want to do it. If it's a safety issue 00:30:59.040 --> 00:31:05.600 for them, what they're causing is safety for people who's riding bikes and walking. When 00:31:05.600 --> 00:31:10.200 I was, I used to use that area. Everybody knows my back. So I used to use the area to 00:31:10.200 --> 00:31:16.000 go from one side of town to the other. Everybody did. You know what I mean? Why? Because it 00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:26.400 was safer than walking down McKinney. So before we can close off an area, let's try to fix 00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:35.800 McKinney to make it safer. You can't put people and pedestrians in harm's way to make police 00:31:35.800 --> 00:31:42.560 feel safe by crossing the street. You know what I mean? I mean, I'm sorry, I know it's 00:31:42.560 --> 00:31:47.800 a serious matter, but I think you understand what I'm saying is that, so I would just have 00:31:47.800 --> 00:31:55.200 to have, hear more about it. You know, the real reason why. It's a public street. So 00:31:55.200 --> 00:32:02.160 you're taking the street away from the public. Yeah. And I just, even more exploration if 00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:06.920 would be possible. I would like to, just for time concerns, I would love to move forward 00:32:06.920 --> 00:32:11.040 because it seems pretty clear that what we're going to request is bringing this back up 00:32:11.040 --> 00:32:16.880 in a future meeting. And if, please let me know if I'm off base on this, but I think 00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:21.720 our commission requests to be to bring something to future meeting with more understanding 00:32:21.720 --> 00:32:30.720 of why this public street needs to be closed and possible alternatives. And then also possible 00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:34.680 projects that could be paired if it were to be closed, seems to be my understanding of 00:32:34.680 --> 00:32:43.240 the situation. Is that an accurate representation of the committee's views? Yes. Okay. All right. 00:32:43.240 --> 00:32:46.960 I see a thumbs up from Commissioner Carr. Commissioner Sample said okay. And I got a 00:32:46.960 --> 00:32:52.080 thumbs up from Commissioner Thurmond. So, officially Trey, yeah, sorry. You already, I think you 00:32:52.080 --> 00:32:56.120 already answered this, but so can we, can we just request that? Do we need to do a vote 00:32:56.120 --> 00:33:02.040 just to request that this come up on a further, on another agenda when we're able to get a 00:33:02.040 --> 00:33:08.080 more detailed report on some of those issues? To do it officially, you could do a, a motion 00:33:08.080 --> 00:33:14.400 to postpone to a, to an event certain, and that would be just the step bringing back 00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:22.920 the, the, you know, the next presentation. Okay. All right. So, if we can get a motion 00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:30.560 to postpone this event until a, we can get further reports from somebody. Make a move 00:33:30.560 --> 00:33:36.320 that we do that. Okay. Second that. And we have a second from Commissioner Carr. And 00:33:36.320 --> 00:33:45.920 so if we can do a yay or nay, if that is approved, Commissioner Thurmond? Yay. Carr? Yay. And 00:33:45.920 --> 00:33:52.040 Commissioner Sample? Yay. Okay. All right. So, and I am also a yay. And so our commission 00:33:52.040 --> 00:33:57.920 would like to, to bring this back up at a further meeting. Okay. All right. So moving 00:33:57.920 --> 00:34:06.800 on to our next issue. TSC 21-007, staff reports. We have a staff memorandum update regarding 00:34:06.800 --> 00:34:11.400 the senior planner, bicycle, pedestrian, and ADA coordinator position and Google Drive 00:34:11.400 --> 00:34:18.000 roundabouts. And then also we have items of interest for future consideration to discuss. 00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:22.240 Thank you, Chair. So just wanted to give you a brief update before I turn it over to my 00:34:22.240 --> 00:34:29.280 friend, Daniel Kramer. So the senior bicycle, pedestrian, and ADA coordinator position, 00:34:29.280 --> 00:34:35.520 we held interviews on April 9th. There were four candidates, and I know several folks 00:34:35.520 --> 00:34:41.280 from our different committees were also a part of those interviews. And so with those 00:34:41.280 --> 00:34:46.760 different applications and candidates, we had four great interviews. And I will tell 00:34:46.760 --> 00:34:52.920 you that we are working through the process of having a second round of interviews, and 00:34:52.920 --> 00:34:57.520 those are to be held this Friday. So just wanted to kind of keep you up to date as to 00:34:57.520 --> 00:35:03.080 where that position is currently in the process. And so really that's just more of an informational 00:35:03.080 --> 00:35:07.880 item for you. With that, I want to turn it over to Daniel Kramer. He's going to give 00:35:07.880 --> 00:35:13.720 you an update to the Kinkle Drive roundabout. He's going to briefly just talk to you about 00:35:13.720 --> 00:35:18.840 a presentation he'll be making also to Mobility Committee on the 21st, and then it'll be a 00:35:18.840 --> 00:35:23.920 part of a work session on April 27th. And so with that, Daniel, I will turn it over 00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:37.800 to you. Thank you, Becky. Get my screen put up here. 00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:51.080 Okay. Good afternoon, Chair and committee. I want to talk to you about the Hinkle Mimosa 00:35:51.080 --> 00:36:01.080 roundabout right at the intersection of Hinkle Mimosa here in Denton. So a roundabout, do 00:36:01.080 --> 00:36:06.600 a little background on just what a basic roundabout is. You know, it's majorly there as a traffic 00:36:06.600 --> 00:36:13.080 calming device to help slow down vehicle movement. It reduces some accident severity, and it 00:36:13.080 --> 00:36:19.820 can also help with maintenance costs compared to some signalized intersections, as based 00:36:19.820 --> 00:36:25.800 on that versus a regular roundabout. It keeps traffic moving consistently as it goes through 00:36:25.800 --> 00:36:33.520 instead of intersections or stop signs. This roundabout specifically was added to the Magnolia 00:36:33.520 --> 00:36:41.080 drainage phase two project in 19, and was completed in October of 2020. So this is still 00:36:41.080 --> 00:36:48.240 a new roundabout for our city. We've heard some concerns about the roundabout. A lot 00:36:48.240 --> 00:36:56.080 of them come from what I think is some confusion for the motorists, because this is not a familiar 00:36:56.080 --> 00:37:03.280 traffic intersection here in the city of Denton. Also that emergency vehicles as they're traversing 00:37:03.280 --> 00:37:08.160 the roundabout, they have to drive over the center. And on this particular roundabout, 00:37:08.160 --> 00:37:13.840 which is called a mini roundabout, that is the actual intent and design of it. We've 00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:18.680 also had a couple of citizen complaints and accidents received to date. We've had two 00:37:18.680 --> 00:37:25.880 engaged Denton requests and resident requests forwarded from two council members and two 00:37:25.880 --> 00:37:31.280 calls from Denton PD about the roundabout. You know, we've also had zero claims that 00:37:31.280 --> 00:37:41.760 have been reported to the city for any damages because of that. So we had some of the complaints 00:37:41.760 --> 00:37:46.840 that came up were difference in the safety and the visibility of the roundabout. So what 00:37:46.840 --> 00:37:53.960 staff did is we instigated a photometric study, which was completed back in March, that drove 00:37:53.960 --> 00:38:00.680 the roundabout in dusk and night areas to verify that there was good visibility. They 00:38:00.680 --> 00:38:04.800 had a few recommendations that came out of that, which was to add additional reflective 00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:11.900 pavement markings on the median noses to help make those more visible. Some LED solar rays 00:38:11.900 --> 00:38:17.920 pavement markers and upgrade the light poles and current lighting in the area. And that 00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:24.840 was on the Hinkle side. On Mimosa, they suggested modifying the curb and median geometry, which 00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:30.220 would help with vehicles being able to get through the intersection better and also increase 00:38:30.220 --> 00:38:35.600 the distance from the outside curb of the road narrowing farther back because they did 00:38:35.600 --> 00:38:38.600 notice there were some vehicles that were parked close to the roundabout, which making 00:38:38.600 --> 00:38:46.440 it hard to get in and out of the roundabout. What we estimate for those costs is an additional 00:38:46.440 --> 00:38:54.760 $22,000 to get those costs added to the roundabout. It was also brought to our attention that 00:38:54.760 --> 00:39:00.280 there are some ideas about just removing the roundabout and putting that traditional four-way 00:39:00.280 --> 00:39:07.320 stop with stop signs in there. Now, when we do that, it does have some concerns that we'll 00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:14.360 bring up, which will be slowing the traffic flow in the area. And also, as everybody knows, 00:39:14.360 --> 00:39:19.080 stop signs are not always observed by all motorists at all times. So there is a chance 00:39:19.080 --> 00:39:23.200 of people actually running the stop signs and going through there, which is true in 00:39:23.200 --> 00:39:29.200 any intersection that we do have. Also, the confusion of the right to proceed protocol 00:39:29.200 --> 00:39:33.720 when you have a four-way stop and making sure the proper vehicle goes first. And another 00:39:33.720 --> 00:39:39.820 issue is that we've already incurred roughly $137,000 to already have this roundabout installed 00:39:39.820 --> 00:39:47.920 and in place at the time. Some of the benefits that we will have is the actual striping and 00:39:47.920 --> 00:39:53.880 the signs, it's more familiar for the motorist. They're used to it, so it won't be as big 00:39:53.880 --> 00:39:57.720 of a change and something they'll have to get used to. And also, the maintenance cost 00:39:57.720 --> 00:40:03.180 of the striping and signage is a little bit less than what the current roundabout would 00:40:03.180 --> 00:40:11.320 be on the striping side. So to actually remove this and put the concrete back, I mean, sorry, 00:40:11.320 --> 00:40:15.280 the asphalt and remove the concrete and put it back to a four-way stop is actually going 00:40:15.280 --> 00:40:20.320 to be right around about $140,000 to do that. 00:40:20.320 --> 00:40:25.120 After looking at all these concerns and everything, staff is looking at recommendations for upgrades 00:40:25.120 --> 00:40:29.600 based on the photometric study to improve the visibility. We are going to be working 00:40:29.600 --> 00:40:35.640 with DME to go forward with the street light plan. One thing that has been brought up is 00:40:35.640 --> 00:40:42.680 they will also be bringing on the 27th to city council a neighborhood LED plan for some 00:40:42.680 --> 00:40:49.920 concerns about migration, migratory birds, and the lighting plan for the neighborhoods 00:40:49.920 --> 00:40:54.160 in the area. So from that direction, from city council, we will be looking at how much 00:40:54.160 --> 00:40:59.720 additional light we can add and look at that for that. And with that, I will stop sharing 00:40:59.720 --> 00:41:06.640 my screen and ask for any questions or comments. 00:41:06.640 --> 00:41:14.000 Thank you for the presentation. Do we have questions from commissioners who want to let 00:41:14.000 --> 00:41:20.000 me know? Commissioner Thurman, go ahead. 00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:26.000 I know that the roundabout has gotten a lot of derision on social media, but I'm hesitant 00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:31.560 to take the roundabout out because that's basically we would have spent a quarter of 00:41:31.560 --> 00:41:39.100 a million dollars of taxpayer money to get back to what we had. And I think that's not 00:41:39.100 --> 00:41:46.000 fiscally responsible of us. So I like the improvements that they're talking about. But 00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:53.820 what about bike lane ending? And can we do anything with that? Because that presents 00:41:53.820 --> 00:42:00.700 a hazard. And that is a main corridor. And we talked a lot about this when this project 00:42:00.700 --> 00:42:03.880 was being initiated. 00:42:03.880 --> 00:42:11.440 Correct. We are looking at that. This specific one was just about pretty much removing or 00:42:11.440 --> 00:42:17.040 keeping the roundabout. We have had discussions and we will be working with traffic and also 00:42:17.040 --> 00:42:21.320 engineering and making sure that we can get those bike lanes in and get some connectivity 00:42:21.320 --> 00:42:24.520 across the city on that, especially in this area. 00:42:24.520 --> 00:42:29.840 Can you clarify what does the process look like when you say you're looking at it? Does 00:42:29.840 --> 00:42:37.320 that mean it's going to be come up at specific times? Or how does that timeline work? 00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:42.760 We've had discussions in the area. We do know there's some connectivity issues as how they 00:42:42.760 --> 00:42:50.880 go through and how the bike lanes abruptly end in certain areas. We are looking at some 00:42:50.880 --> 00:43:00.320 different -- I'm trying to look at a picture of the roundabout to make sure I'm calling 00:43:00.320 --> 00:43:06.760 this correctly. But with the curb widening and how we're looking at with modifying that, 00:43:06.760 --> 00:43:11.360 there are some options that we can. I will be working with Chandra on that as we implement 00:43:11.360 --> 00:43:17.240 those and go forward. We will have some more plans going forward. We don't have an in depth 00:43:17.240 --> 00:43:19.520 on that right now. 00:43:19.520 --> 00:43:24.840 Okay. Thank you. I think I certainly agree that's something we would want to follow up 00:43:24.840 --> 00:43:34.440 on. So it seems if I'm hearing this right, Daniel, it's kind of not a high level of number 00:43:34.440 --> 00:43:39.040 of complaints we're getting here, right? I think especially with a new type of system 00:43:39.040 --> 00:43:43.200 like a roundabout, most people are used to stop signs, you expect to get some. But it 00:43:43.200 --> 00:43:48.680 seems like a pretty low number of complaints that we've got so far. Is that a correct characterization? 00:43:48.680 --> 00:43:57.960 Yes, sir. We do have some system that are vocal about it and don't like it. Just like 00:43:57.960 --> 00:44:02.480 with anything new, it's something to get used to. On our side, we probably could have done 00:44:02.480 --> 00:44:08.640 a better job of some public outreach and doing some more teaching on how to use roundabouts 00:44:08.640 --> 00:44:14.600 and getting some more information out, which we will be pushing forward with our public 00:44:14.600 --> 00:44:18.800 outreach committee on that to make sure that we can get that out, sorry, not committee 00:44:18.800 --> 00:44:21.640 of the department. So we can make sure that they get that out to the public so they understand 00:44:21.640 --> 00:44:26.880 how to properly navigate a roundabout and they can go forward. 00:44:26.880 --> 00:44:32.820 Thank you. Thank you. Other commissioner comments? Commissioner Carr? 00:44:32.820 --> 00:44:38.080 I do like the improvements that you guys are making and I think it would be better to do 00:44:38.080 --> 00:44:47.160 that than to scrap the whole thing and to start over with just a four way stop. So I'm 00:44:47.160 --> 00:44:52.520 totally great with the improvements and I would like to thank Clay for bringing up the 00:44:52.520 --> 00:44:58.560 fact that the bike lanes do not go all the way through, that you have to stop, you have 00:44:58.560 --> 00:45:04.240 to get in the lane, go around the roundabout and then get back in the bike lane. I'm hoping 00:45:04.240 --> 00:45:11.840 that that does change. I don't know, I can't remember why that was something that got, 00:45:11.840 --> 00:45:17.520 that was approved like that, but I would love it if it could change. That's for the record. 00:45:17.520 --> 00:45:21.320 Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Carr. And I think, 00:45:21.320 --> 00:45:24.880 I think that's an issue we've been talking about recently, right, is that we're a lot 00:45:24.880 --> 00:45:29.120 of, I think the city's work is trying to fix old mistakes. Unfortunately, some new roads 00:45:29.120 --> 00:45:33.480 are getting built. We're still seeing some of the same mistakes, sidewalks that are either 00:45:33.480 --> 00:45:38.560 unsafe or discontinued and bike lanes that abruptly end things like that. So hopefully 00:45:38.560 --> 00:45:43.760 that's something overall in planning we can look at. But with that, I mean, I agree with 00:45:43.760 --> 00:45:49.560 the commissioners that have spoken. I think I'm in favor of making the suggested changes. 00:45:49.560 --> 00:45:55.760 I don't think redoing this would be a smart financial move in the city, especially for 00:45:55.760 --> 00:46:01.720 the number of complaints that we've heard, which seems relatively low to what I've heard. 00:46:01.720 --> 00:46:08.080 Is there any other commissioner comments or can we, do we want to make a recommendation? 00:46:08.080 --> 00:46:13.760 Chair, you actually do not have to make a recommendation on this. This is just a staff 00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:17.800 item that we brought forward to you for more of an informational purpose. It will be a 00:46:17.800 --> 00:46:23.640 work session item that is going to be on city council on the 27th. But it is just really 00:46:23.640 --> 00:46:29.520 more of a FYI of something we're currently going through and evaluating so that we brought 00:46:29.520 --> 00:46:34.640 that to your attention. Okay, perfect. Thank you, Becky. And with that, then it would mean 00:46:34.640 --> 00:46:40.000 that we just the last item would be identified items of interest for future staff reports 00:46:40.000 --> 00:46:44.640 or update up to the agenda that have been made. Sure. And I wanted to really quickly 00:46:44.640 --> 00:46:50.000 just touch on a couple of comments that were made. We do realize there are some situations 00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:56.480 out there similar to this roundabout where we can do increased public outreach to show 00:46:56.480 --> 00:47:02.880 how individuals will make their way through this roundabout, particularly we understand, 00:47:02.880 --> 00:47:06.660 you know, our fire department, solid waste department, but then also just regular vehicular 00:47:06.660 --> 00:47:11.880 traffic. But I know also the bicycle traffic has been brought up and pedestrian traffic, 00:47:11.880 --> 00:47:18.080 I'm sure is also always a concern. These will be things that the senior planner, bike 00:47:18.080 --> 00:47:23.840 ped ADA coordinator will look at and review from a perspective of any new project that 00:47:23.840 --> 00:47:28.720 we're putting in. And we've seen quite a few examples of things that maybe didn't go exactly 00:47:28.720 --> 00:47:32.600 the way that we would have liked for them to that are now kind of things that we're 00:47:32.600 --> 00:47:37.640 having to go back similar to like what Daniel mentioned on this roundabout and look at what 00:47:37.640 --> 00:47:42.040 we can do to try to improve that area. So please understand that it definitely is on 00:47:42.040 --> 00:47:47.440 our radar and something that we want to continue to try to address as those concerned arise, 00:47:47.440 --> 00:47:54.520 not only from a vehicular traffic, but also from that pedestrian and bicycle traffic perspective. 00:47:54.520 --> 00:47:59.960 So just just wanted to make mention of that. It's definitely on our radar. So thank you, 00:47:59.960 --> 00:48:04.400 Becky. We appreciate that. And I think I think one one thing I could if I could add really 00:48:04.400 --> 00:48:09.680 briefly to I'll say is, you know, I think sometimes these decisions in cities are hard 00:48:09.680 --> 00:48:13.240 because we always want to be responsive to the public. But sometimes it's also challenging 00:48:13.240 --> 00:48:18.920 to make, you know, kind of use best practice decisions that are going to be safe for citizens 00:48:18.920 --> 00:48:23.880 even in light of like a kind of a small minority not wanting something in the city. So I think 00:48:23.880 --> 00:48:28.840 I understand how hard it is to navigate those challenges, too. So we appreciate the committee. 00:48:28.840 --> 00:48:32.280 And I guess that's kind of what we see. I see as part of our job as a committee is to 00:48:32.280 --> 00:48:36.520 ensure that, you know, things like this are as safe as possible, which include things 00:48:36.520 --> 00:48:41.120 like bike lanes. So thank you all for going through that process. 00:48:41.120 --> 00:48:45.240 No problem at all. We're happy to help. So with the last item, I really just wanted to 00:48:45.240 --> 00:48:50.200 go through in your package, you saw kind of a future agenda item. There's some agenda 00:48:50.200 --> 00:48:55.760 items on here that are have been on here for quite some time. A lot of them are older than 00:48:55.760 --> 00:49:02.200 myself and my time in the department. And so wanted to take this time to do a little 00:49:02.200 --> 00:49:06.320 bit of a cleanup and make sure that we're all on the same page with what items you'd 00:49:06.320 --> 00:49:11.880 like to have brought be brought back forward. I'm just so I can work on a scheduling with 00:49:11.880 --> 00:49:17.520 our committee and with the commission and then also a schedule with our staffing and 00:49:17.520 --> 00:49:20.920 make sure that we're allocating appropriate time to be able to bring these things back 00:49:20.920 --> 00:49:28.200 to you. The first item that you see is provide urbanization options for Carol from Mulberry 00:49:28.200 --> 00:49:35.820 to Oak and then Bell from Mulberry to McKinney. The last comment I see is that concepts are 00:49:35.820 --> 00:49:45.600 being developed. Is that something that the commission is still interested in discussing? 00:49:45.600 --> 00:49:49.280 And I'm going to go through these one by one so that I get clear understanding and that 00:49:49.280 --> 00:49:54.880 I can provide these provide these back to you in a time frame with a schedule associated 00:49:54.880 --> 00:50:01.600 with that. I'll I'll answer quickly that I was the requester on that one. And I think 00:50:01.600 --> 00:50:05.280 these are these are actually some I've been bringing up these streets specifically probably 00:50:05.280 --> 00:50:10.480 since I started on the committee commission in 2016 because I see them as the most dangerous 00:50:10.480 --> 00:50:14.480 streets. Particularly, you know, I I'll just say real quickly, I cross Bell a lot to go 00:50:14.480 --> 00:50:19.520 over to armadillo and to go over to the little restaurant over there. And we still lack good 00:50:19.520 --> 00:50:23.820 crossing and sidewalks on those areas. And these are like in our course. So so the question 00:50:23.820 --> 00:50:28.520 is is what would long term plans look like to address these kind of streets? And we've 00:50:28.520 --> 00:50:32.640 done some of the work already, like for example, on McKinney, we have a really good crosswalk 00:50:32.640 --> 00:50:37.400 that I love using and used all the time now that that was installed. And so those are 00:50:37.400 --> 00:50:41.280 what when we talk about urbanization options, those are consideration. We've also talked 00:50:41.280 --> 00:50:47.520 about these streets potentially, you know, getting re urbanized and considering do they 00:50:47.520 --> 00:50:51.680 need as many lanes as they have, I've particularly brought up Carol around that this Carol needs 00:50:51.680 --> 00:50:56.780 six lanes of traffic, I'd argue living on I live right on Carol, that it never has bad 00:50:56.780 --> 00:51:04.080 traffic that necessitates six lanes. So anyway, so yeah, so I asked that's my basic concern 00:51:04.080 --> 00:51:09.220 I had with that is that I don't think that those streets are very safe to be this close 00:51:09.220 --> 00:51:13.320 to our core where you have more pedestrians and cyclists. And so are there options that 00:51:13.320 --> 00:51:17.000 we can look at in the short and long term to address those? So yeah, I would love to 00:51:17.000 --> 00:51:21.440 see some kind of report on that if possible. Okay, and I think that probably goes with 00:51:21.440 --> 00:51:27.160 the second item is hawk signals for pedestrian crossing on Carol in long stretches. So that 00:51:27.160 --> 00:51:34.240 would be similar to that common is not only a pedestrian but bicycle type mobility concern. 00:51:34.240 --> 00:51:40.200 So understand that. The third item is hawk signals for pedestrian crossing on Teasley 00:51:40.200 --> 00:51:45.420 between Hobson and Londonderry. And I know that there's some tech stock coordination 00:51:45.420 --> 00:51:48.720 that's currently going on with that. And I also know that's one that has recently come 00:51:48.720 --> 00:51:54.680 up in some discussions with our parks department and something that we are actually looking 00:51:54.680 --> 00:51:59.480 into. So I think that one's kind of already in the works. And as soon as we have some 00:51:59.480 --> 00:52:05.280 more information, I also believe that was part of a recent Friday report, but we are 00:52:05.280 --> 00:52:12.200 definitely that one's something that we're aware of. Commissioner Thurman, I see bike 00:52:12.200 --> 00:52:20.260 box at Oak at Locust and then Hickory at Carol. I'm not sure if you've received any updates 00:52:20.260 --> 00:52:34.680 on that, sir. No, I haven't. And I just still think that adding some bike boxes downtown 00:52:34.680 --> 00:52:40.560 is a good starting point to start teaching some of our motorists and citizens about this. 00:52:40.560 --> 00:52:49.720 And the thing about, you know, when I ride my bike up Oak and hit Locust there, you know, 00:52:49.720 --> 00:52:57.400 it's still a little bit on an incline, but the bike route ends right there at that intersection. 00:52:57.400 --> 00:53:03.400 And so you have to merge with traffic. And by having a bike box there, I know it's a 00:53:03.400 --> 00:53:09.440 little tight with the sidewalk and the crossing there, but something like that would, I think 00:53:09.440 --> 00:53:16.400 would benefit. Okay, thank you for that. Becky, I'll add, I actually looking at this, it seems 00:53:16.400 --> 00:53:20.960 like items one through seven are very closely related to each other, right? I mean, what 00:53:20.960 --> 00:53:24.720 we're looking at is what would make these streets safer. They include bike boxes, they 00:53:24.720 --> 00:53:32.160 include hawk signals on core streets. Now, the only thing is, I think item, let's see, 00:53:32.160 --> 00:53:36.920 we do bring up Locust also, which may not, those are included in the original streets, 00:53:36.920 --> 00:53:42.200 but I think these could be rewritten as one, if you wanted to, for ease that we could get 00:53:42.200 --> 00:53:48.320 a report on, and please let me know commission if I'm correct on these, but that we're looking 00:53:48.320 --> 00:53:55.320 for ways to enhance pedestrians and bicycle safety on core streets, especially ones that 00:53:55.320 --> 00:54:00.760 have high speeds with solutions like bike boxes, with solutions like hawk signals. If 00:54:00.760 --> 00:54:04.480 that could be, maybe we could reduce that to one thing that could then be reported back 00:54:04.480 --> 00:54:10.440 on that would help ease the matrix and move us forward. Sure. I think that makes sense. 00:54:10.440 --> 00:54:14.640 And I think Commissioner Stamp will be happy to know his comment that he just recently 00:54:14.640 --> 00:54:20.400 made is also on the matrix about McKinney Street. So sir, I see your comment. So I think 00:54:20.400 --> 00:54:25.520 that's apparent and it appears that a lot of this is kind of in the downtown area, but 00:54:25.520 --> 00:54:30.920 then also kind of those common core, oh, Kickery, Carroll, McKinney type roadways. So definitely 00:54:30.920 --> 00:54:35.640 appreciate that. So we'll go through and kind of look at those one through seven and see 00:54:35.640 --> 00:54:42.200 how we can consolidate that number eight actually says construction signage for lane closures, 00:54:42.200 --> 00:54:46.280 walking sidewalks for street construction projects. I think that's kind of an ongoing 00:54:46.280 --> 00:54:51.160 situation that we have that we are addressing as those types of things arrive, but then 00:54:51.160 --> 00:54:56.840 also discussing with our inspections department and other folks. I know that's something that 00:54:56.840 --> 00:55:01.400 as it comes up, obviously we're addressing as quickly as we possibly can. Is there something 00:55:01.400 --> 00:55:08.960 else with that particular question that I might not be aware of? That's me too. In short, 00:55:08.960 --> 00:55:13.000 I would love to know, is there a policy in place? I don't know if there is. Is there 00:55:13.000 --> 00:55:18.800 a policy in place that indicates to staff who are the ones putting up the construction 00:55:18.800 --> 00:55:27.000 signs in roadways to try to reduce blocking pedestrian access on sidewalks when possible, 00:55:27.000 --> 00:55:31.040 right? And I don't even know if when possible, it seems like it's always a problem that they, 00:55:31.040 --> 00:55:36.480 and it's still coming up. I run around in the core and just very frequently that, you 00:55:36.480 --> 00:55:40.400 know, we have three lanes of traffic and one of them are closed. And then we block the 00:55:40.400 --> 00:55:45.920 sidewalk saying that the one lane of traffic is closed. So if that makes sense. So to me, 00:55:45.920 --> 00:55:51.080 what we need is a city policy on this that is directly goes to the people who put the 00:55:51.080 --> 00:55:56.280 signs up. So I don't know if that's something city council would pass or if something that's 00:55:56.280 --> 00:56:00.120 something that could just be put forward. But I guess, so I guess what I would like 00:56:00.120 --> 00:56:05.600 to know is can we, if there's not already a policy, can that become a policy? And then 00:56:05.600 --> 00:56:10.320 in cases of violation, can we know clearly who we can let know and communicate that this 00:56:10.320 --> 00:56:16.600 is being violated still. So does that make sense? No, that makes complete sense. I think 00:56:16.600 --> 00:56:22.760 really it's a traffic control perspective, also a, you know, really just a public works 00:56:22.760 --> 00:56:28.640 inspection type scenario, something that we could probably not only teach our internal 00:56:28.640 --> 00:56:32.920 folks that are doing construction, but then also our contractors and maybe make it a part 00:56:32.920 --> 00:56:39.360 of our standard pre-construction scenario so that if the sidewalk needs to be blocked 00:56:39.360 --> 00:56:45.100 for a reason, then there's the why behind it is easily understood versus just assuming 00:56:45.100 --> 00:56:49.720 that you're blocking the roadway and the sidewalk. So I understand that pedestrian traffic is 00:56:49.720 --> 00:56:53.480 still important. So let us think through what's the best way to address that. It seems to 00:56:53.480 --> 00:56:59.120 me that it could just be a, at this point, maybe just a process that we do a little bit 00:56:59.120 --> 00:57:04.600 of education to all the folks that are involved so they can understand from a public works 00:57:04.600 --> 00:57:10.080 and then also, you know, a construction crew, internal crew type scenario and then a public 00:57:10.080 --> 00:57:14.480 works inspection and also work with our building inspections department. So I understand where 00:57:14.480 --> 00:57:21.280 you're going with that comment. That's fabulous. The bike ballards on Hickory, I do believe 00:57:21.280 --> 00:57:26.040 and luckily I have Danny here. I do believe the bike ballards on Hickory was due to the 00:57:26.040 --> 00:57:31.080 spacing and that cars could actually park in between those bike ballards. And I think 00:57:31.080 --> 00:57:36.440 that that has been addressed. I believe that's what that comment is. I know we were looking 00:57:36.440 --> 00:57:41.400 at installing some additional ones and then I know we were possibly needing to purchase 00:57:41.400 --> 00:57:48.080 some additional bicycle ballards. Danny, and of course I'm putting you on the spot, but 00:57:48.080 --> 00:57:53.800 do you have any updates for that one? If not, then we can definitely bring that back. 00:57:53.800 --> 00:57:57.280 I will have to follow up on that exact one. I know we placed an order to get some more 00:57:57.280 --> 00:58:03.520 ballards just recently. So I'll confirm if we had enough in stock to finish that or we 00:58:03.520 --> 00:58:08.440 were going to have to get more for that. Perfect. So we can look into that one, that common 00:58:08.440 --> 00:58:15.440 speed limit messages also within that one through seven we've already discussed. There 00:58:15.440 --> 00:58:21.200 was a, I guess, a portion of sidewalk that was missing crosswalk sidewalk connection 00:58:21.200 --> 00:58:26.280 near Barley and board, which that's kind of also within that one through seven. Also, 00:58:26.280 --> 00:58:33.880 it's that area kind of around the downtown and then a faded crosswalk. So that's definitely 00:58:33.880 --> 00:58:38.720 one we can look into. That's at Bolivar and McKinney. And that's something that we can 00:58:38.720 --> 00:58:43.900 look into with Danny's team and traffic operations. I think that was one that you mentioned was 00:58:43.900 --> 00:58:48.640 fading and was there a way that it could be restriped if it was going to be put back? 00:58:48.640 --> 00:58:53.280 We'll have to look into the logistics behind that one. So those make sense. I think the 00:58:53.280 --> 00:58:57.000 policy on that one is that they were going to take it away, which is kind of the opposite 00:58:57.000 --> 00:59:01.880 of I think what we need to be happening, right? So because my wife reported that because she 00:59:01.880 --> 00:59:07.080 almost got hit by a car there and they said, we're sorry, the faded crosswalk is there. 00:59:07.080 --> 00:59:11.360 We're trying to get rid of it so people don't cross anymore, which is feels like the wrong 00:59:11.360 --> 00:59:16.200 answer because it's a Bolivar is a good cross street for I think a lot of people going downtown. 00:59:16.200 --> 00:59:19.800 So so yeah, by the way, and I just want to say, Becky, thank you for going through these 00:59:19.800 --> 00:59:24.160 and like attending to them. This is this makes me feel really good because I feel like we've 00:59:24.160 --> 00:59:28.560 been suggesting some things that we just don't get answers on. And this is a wonderful process. 00:59:28.560 --> 00:59:32.640 So thank you for taking the time to go through the Oh, no problem at all. And what I'd like 00:59:32.640 --> 00:59:38.560 to do and I appreciate that is take the time to consolidate them and really make sure that 00:59:38.560 --> 00:59:44.200 they're kind of in the order. And the information makes sense. It seems like maybe the list 00:59:44.200 --> 00:59:49.400 of 12 might be more like three or four, if we consolidate a few of those. And so then 00:59:49.400 --> 00:59:53.780 we can bring those back to you on specific timeframes. Sometimes it's difficult to bring 00:59:53.780 --> 00:59:57.840 it back exactly the next month, just to due to the fact that it may take us a little bit 00:59:57.840 --> 01:00:02.040 of time to do some research. But I'd like to start marking these off the list and getting 01:00:02.040 --> 01:00:06.100 them addressed, or at least bringing you back a report that discuss that as part of our 01:00:06.100 --> 01:00:12.480 staff update, just just so that we're being responsive to your request. So I guess with 01:00:12.480 --> 01:00:23.860 that the last thing I would ask is there any additional that you wanted to add to the list? 01:00:23.860 --> 01:00:27.480 I know I don't have any additions and the other commissioners I don't know if the things 01:00:27.480 --> 01:00:33.880 discussed earlier would be considered an addition the issues around McKinney in that area about, 01:00:33.880 --> 01:00:38.440 but that's kind of also within the one through seven. Sure, I want to consider that right. 01:00:38.440 --> 01:00:42.120 But more specifically, that as we continue to look at that issue, maybe that's something 01:00:42.120 --> 01:00:47.280 we'd add to the agenda. So it has a formal place to is looking at pedestrian issues on 01:00:47.280 --> 01:00:53.520 McKinney near Frame Street. Sure. And the the Frame Street Oak Street closure, since 01:00:53.520 --> 01:00:57.160 it is an item that is going to require your recommendation, we'll bring that back as a 01:00:57.160 --> 01:01:02.640 separate item even the next time. And we'll involve folks from our facilities team that 01:01:02.640 --> 01:01:06.720 is actually delivering that project along with the police department and work to address 01:01:06.720 --> 01:01:11.420 the concerns. We'll also look at the overview of really what are the projects we have planned 01:01:11.420 --> 01:01:19.200 for that area so that we can answer the mobility questions that have come about. So I anticipate 01:01:19.200 --> 01:01:23.040 and expect that item to stay kind of on its own legs just because it definitely needs 01:01:23.040 --> 01:01:28.720 a formal recommendation so that it can move forward to council. We will need to move it 01:01:28.720 --> 01:01:32.880 out though because we want to be able to bring it back to you first before we go to council 01:01:32.880 --> 01:01:39.840 in April and late April. So that will happen. But I appreciate it. So thank you for taking 01:01:39.840 --> 01:01:43.880 the time to go through the agenda with me. I wanted to make sure that I'm being responsive 01:01:43.880 --> 01:01:48.440 to your requests and that our team is is looking into all of these different requests that 01:01:48.440 --> 01:01:53.480 come through. So I apologize to have to go back a couple of years, but I'm looking for 01:01:53.480 --> 01:01:57.840 that knowledge base just so I can make sure I'm understanding. And I do appreciate you 01:01:57.840 --> 01:02:03.400 taking the time to listen to me. Thank you. Thank you. And I think with that, if there's 01:02:03.400 --> 01:02:10.460 no further business, I think we can this meeting can be adjourned.