1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:09,520 chair correct. Hey, um, welcome to Traffic Safety Commission. Um, we call for our call 2 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:15,360 to order. We do now have a quorum of four of seven members, so the meeting may come 3 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:22,320 to order. Um, so we do not have any presentations or comments from the public, so we will go 4 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:30,880 right into our items for today. Um, and so item, uh, a TSC 21005 consider the approval 5 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:37,240 of minutes from March 3rd, 2021. Um, do we, are there any corrections that are needed 6 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:44,440 for last month's meeting? I'd like to correct that. We discussed holding the meetings on 7 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:53,000 the third Monday rather than the third Wednesday. Okay. Do we, for a meeting correction, do 8 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:59,880 we need any kind of, any kind of vote on that? Or can we just, is that just go on the record? 9 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:05,360 It can go on the record and you can, as a body, approve the minutes as, as, as corrected. 10 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:10,480 Okay. All right. So having said that, are there any other corrections needed for the 11 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:21,440 minutes? All right. So if there aren't any other, then we just need to vote on the minutes 12 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:26,880 with the one correction from commissioner Thurman. Um, does everyone approve of the 13 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:32,560 minutes, including commissioner Thurman's, uh, recommendation that it's say the first, 14 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:37,640 uh, the third Monday instead of the third Wednesday of the month? Uh, all in favor we'll, 15 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:41,720 we'll do, go ahead. Actually chair, can we go ahead and do it with a motion and a second? 16 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:48,520 They can move to approve and then second the roll call vote because we're on zoom. Yep. 17 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:54,160 Can we, can we get a motion to approve, uh, commissioner Thurman's, uh, addition and the 18 00:01:54,160 --> 00:02:01,960 minutes? I motion to approve Clay Thurman's addition to the minutes. Anyone want to say, 19 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:06,440 okay, say seconds. All right. So can we, we're going to have to go ahead and go through a 20 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:10,360 vote. So I'll, I'll name each commissioner and you can just give me a yay or nay to prove 21 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:20,680 it. Um, commissioner Clark. Yay. Commissioner Thurman. Yay. And commissioner sample. I saw 22 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:24,260 a yay, but I think you're muted still. I don't know if you're able to unmute. Do we need 23 00:02:24,260 --> 00:02:32,120 him? Do we need him to unmute for it? Okay. Can you hear me now? Yep. Can hear you. Yay. 24 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:38,000 All right. So, and I also, uh, vote yay. So the minutes are approved with the correction 25 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:45,360 from commissioner Thurman. All right. Um, onto our next item, item B TST 21 zero zero 26 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:49,080 six receiver report, hold a discussion and consider making a recommendation regarding 27 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:55,480 the frame street closure for the didn't police department facility and city hall east renovations. 28 00:02:55,480 --> 00:03:14,240 Thank you chair. I am going to share my screen and make a short presentation to you. Can 29 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:22,120 everyone see my screen? Fantastic. So want to talk to you a little bit today about the 30 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:26,380 frame street closure. Um, just to give you a little bit of a background, the closure 31 00:03:26,380 --> 00:03:31,920 is requested for the Denton police headquarters construction project. Uh, that project began 32 00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:39,640 on January 15th, um, is expected to be substantially complete by next June, 2022. Um, the frame 33 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:44,520 street closure was requested specifically by the police department for security reasons. 34 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:50,600 Um, and that request was made back in July, um, of last year, um, following the feedback 35 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:55,040 from the traffic safety commission. Um, we also will be making the presentation as a 36 00:03:55,040 --> 00:04:00,560 staff update to mobility committee. Um, then we will be producing with our public affairs 37 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:06,640 team notification for the adjacent, uh, property owners and residents in the area. Um, we've 38 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:12,960 been coordinating with the solid waste department, um, for delivery service to the facility during 39 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:17,880 and after construction. Um, there's some temporary delivery items that had to be taken care of 40 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:22,760 right now from a dumpster access, um, point, and then we'll also be coordinating, uh, with 41 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:28,960 that final construction, uh, and the final location of those dumpsters. Um, and then 42 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:33,940 staff will have signage, um, installed that will notify the motorists about the changes 43 00:04:33,940 --> 00:04:40,720 to the traffic pattern. Um, and then also, um, an update to the GIS maps. Thought I would 44 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:44,580 show you a little bit of a map to kind of explain what's happening. If you drive along 45 00:04:44,580 --> 00:04:49,480 McKinney street today, you will see that there is already some demolition going on 46 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:56,000 in the area. The yellow highlight is a boundary box that really kind of shows the location 47 00:04:56,000 --> 00:05:01,960 of the Denton police headquarters facility, uh, what we also call kind of city hall east. 48 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:10,080 Um, this is, um, railroad, um, and then Hickory street. So it's very interesting. This is 49 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:15,880 actually frame street and this is actually oak. So currently right now the police department 50 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:20,400 is parking in this vicinity and I'm gonna zoom in just a little bit so it'll make the 51 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:25,720 picture a little bit bigger. Um, and so what you can see is, um, there's a proposed to 52 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:31,520 have a security gate in this location and this location that will still allow for access 53 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:37,880 to this facility that's located right here. And then also this facility and this facility. 54 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:43,680 And I'm going to show you that on the next slide, um, a little bit more detail that kind 55 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:50,060 of shows you the overview of what the, um, headquarters renovation proposed site plan. 56 00:05:50,060 --> 00:05:56,400 So as you can see, there will be all of the parking located here and then parking located 57 00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:00,860 here. Um, what is maybe a little bit difficult to see from the screen is that there's going 58 00:06:00,860 --> 00:06:06,080 to be public parking spaces in this area, but this little line with the circles is actually 59 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:15,800 the perimeter fencing. So this entire area will be fenced for security purposes all the 60 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:22,480 way around the facility. Um, so right here there will be a secure entrance and then also 61 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:28,760 in this location will be a secure secured entrance. Um, this will allow the police department 62 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:34,240 to come into the facility, use the security entrance and then park in the, um, covered 63 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:39,120 parking area or in the secure police parking location. The same thing can happen off of 64 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:45,280 McKinney. They can come in on frame street and park in the secured area. So essentially 65 00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:50,840 the entire parking lot for the police department, all of their vehicles, equipment will be located 66 00:06:50,840 --> 00:06:56,360 within the fence secured area. You can see the existing building. There are some additional 67 00:06:56,360 --> 00:07:02,740 features that are being added to that, that our facilities, um, uh, management and facility 68 00:07:02,740 --> 00:07:08,200 team is, is handling. Um, and so just wanted to kind of show you a graphic of, you know, 69 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,760 what it looked like today versus what it's going to look like in the future is quite 70 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:16,400 a bit of parking. And really that's the reason behind, um, the request for the closure of 71 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:22,320 frame. And then of course, this is also called Oak to allow for those security fencing to 72 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:26,400 be installed, those security gates so that all of the parking of the police department 73 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:31,440 and other facilities, um, individuals that are coming to the police department location 74 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:38,560 will be housed. Um, I know one question that may have been on your mind is, um, this is 75 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:42,960 Hickory street and you know, part of our concern was, is if we close this road, does it negatively 76 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:51,040 impact the actual traffic for the existing, uh, locations, you know, along this, uh, border 77 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:56,080 and what this is, and it's a little bit difficult to see probably, um, but it actually is, um, 78 00:07:56,080 --> 00:08:02,000 a vehicle turnaround truck turnaround where we actually had the turning radius is put 79 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:07,120 in so that you could see if a car turns, comes down, makes it to this point realizes, oh 80 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:11,440 my goodness, there's a fence there. I can't go through. They can actually back up and 81 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:17,760 then come straight out. Also in this vicinity, there's a probability and proposal of putting 82 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:22,120 some of the dumpsters in this location. So I wanted to make sure that those vehicles 83 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:30,960 could actually make those turning movements. And what staff is asking is for your recommendation 84 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:37,200 on the closure of frame street. Um, you have the opportunity to approve frame street, um, 85 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:44,520 decline the frame street closure, um, or provide a staff with any kind of alternative, um, 86 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:50,320 recommendations. Um, actually what will happen in the next steps is an ordinance. If, if 87 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:55,600 you so I choose to approve to close the roadway, um, an ordinance to close the roadway and 88 00:08:55,600 --> 00:09:02,760 obtain the right away. Um, and that plan is to be presented to council on the 27th. So 89 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:10,800 with that, I'm going to stop sharing and then, um, open it up for discussion. 90 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:14,520 Thank you for the presentation. Yeah. And so Robert's rules of orders. We'll try to 91 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:18,600 just, just either indicate by hand. I'll keep an eye on the screens if you have questions 92 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:25,760 and I'll try to call on you, uh, commissioner. All right. So my concern is all the folks 93 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:32,440 that one bike through that space. When you look at a heat map on Strava, you can see 94 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:42,280 that most people who bike use that space because when you go over to the, when you cross McKinney 95 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:48,200 to the French street on the other side, that's how people are getting across. It's a really 96 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:57,040 short space between the frame street right behind the police station and the next one. 97 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:04,440 You can go down to Bradshaw and cross on that space, but the gap between those two roads, 98 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:10,400 it's much greater. And so, um, there's a, I mean, you know, we all know McKinney is 99 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:17,120 a, is very, there's a high, lots of traffic on McKinney. So you have to watch both ways. 100 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:24,960 You have to make sure it's clear on either side. And then to get across is, um, is tricky. 101 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:34,600 So secondly, what about all those folks who are on the B the East North side of town? 102 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:43,240 How are they also getting to the train station? So is there alternatives to this space for 103 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:51,920 people who need to cross over McKinney and to clarify. So you're, they're coming off 104 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,800 of McKinney commissioner car. And then they would be, you're concerned that they go down 105 00:10:55,800 --> 00:11:06,000 frame street. Is that, that's down. So what's happening. If you look at a heat map on Strava, 106 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:15,880 people are using that space, that frame street Oak street to what it, um, Hickory, they use 107 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:22,200 that a lot. I mean, it's, it's on the heat map. That is a major space for people who 108 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:30,520 use, who cycle. And so, um, because it goes both ways versus railroad, which is a one 109 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:38,720 way and it's a small gap between those, between when you go from, when you cross frame street 110 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:44,600 from behind the fires, from the behind the police station, and then you go across to 111 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:50,400 the frame street on the other side of McKinney, it's a really small gap versus all the other 112 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:57,880 places damn. And the only other safe place to cross McKinney, you have to go all the 113 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:04,480 way up to civic center where they have the flashing lights and nobody wants to do that. 114 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:09,720 Nobody, I mean, how are you getting there when you're on the Northeast side of town? 115 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:18,640 So is there an alternative? I get why the police want to do what they want to do, but 116 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:31,800 only generate like some other space, safe space for people to cross McKinney. 117 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:37,920 I think that's something that we can look at and discuss with the individuals that are 118 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:46,240 actually responsible for the Denton police facility and see if there's any other changes 119 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:52,360 that they are welcome to listen to. At this point, that's not something that actually 120 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:59,000 has been discussed, but we're willing based on your conversation and comments that you 121 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:04,960 have to bring that up to those folks and the facilities team that are working on the construction 122 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:09,360 of this facility based on the concerns that you raised today. 123 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:16,240 And I can, I've got a screenshot of this Java heat map if you want to see it too. Sure. 124 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:21,200 That may be something that we'll ask to reach out to you at a future timeframe. You know, 125 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:31,040 I understand the concern that you've mentioned. I think this needs some safe, some safe ways 126 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:37,720 to cross McKinney. It's not a whole lot of them. And people are trying to get around 127 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:45,360 the city while, you know, on either on foot or, you know, by we need, and they're trying 128 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:51,360 to get to you the train station. They need safe spaces to do that. And right now there's 129 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:57,080 not, there's really not that many. And thank you, commissioner. I also know I've 130 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:01,800 run through that area and it's just not a very navigable area. So those, I've used those 131 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:06,840 streets before kind of to pass safely because as I think commissioner sample has brought 132 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:11,480 up in the past that McKinney doesn't have a safe crossing, right? It's, it's incredibly 133 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:15,600 unsafe. And so part of the problem is, is we haven't, we have a larger problem that 134 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:21,360 this whole area has not been made safe for pedestrians. So people use these side streets. 135 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:27,960 I think Chandra has had her hand up. So maybe we should let her chime in real quick. 136 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:37,320 Thank you commissioner. And to answer commissioner Carr's concern, there is future road diet 137 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:43,600 plans for McKinney since it's a four lane. And there were discussions before to have 138 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:49,880 that as a one lane in each direction with the center turn lanes. And when that happens, 139 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:56,800 we can consider installing hawk signals. I think we considered one further east on justice 140 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:03,840 peace center. So if that is not feasible anymore, then we can consider by either Bradshaw or 141 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:09,960 frame to make that safe crossing in the future, but we need to do the studies and confirm 142 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:17,680 that. So that should not be a hindrance. And also on the future bond, mingo will be having 143 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:24,760 separated bike lanes. So that will have a continuous bike lanes on Bell mingo. So that 144 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:30,480 should address the concerns that commission card has today. 145 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:34,600 And if I can, I mean, sidewalks, we just don't even have sidewalks correct that that are 146 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:39,440 continuous on we don't even, so it's not even about even restructuring the whole road, but 147 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:44,480 starting with sidewalks. So people, I mean, McKinney is probably one of the worst examples. 148 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,280 Commissioner sample commissioner sample has his hand up. 149 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:52,840 Yeah, I just want to chime in on what was being said when you're coming down McKinney 150 00:15:52,840 --> 00:16:01,040 to take their street away. People use that street because McKinney is not safe. On some 151 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:07,280 part of McKinney. I think I'm on the right side. If you go into a salvation army, you 152 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:14,880 don't have a sidewalk until you get down by the courthouse. So to try to cross and take 153 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:23,360 up that to take away that much. I wouldn't want to see that. And then again, how long 154 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:29,580 would it how long with the person be up a year, two years or what was it? What's the 155 00:16:29,580 --> 00:16:35,920 time frame of them blocking it off? It's is it it's my it's permanent is not 156 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:40,520 is that correct that it's meant to be permanent? Yes, sir. It's meant to be permanent. It's 157 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:45,680 going to be a permanent location for the Denton Police Department to house their vehicles 158 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:50,880 and park with a secured fencing site. So it's going to be a permanent structure that will 159 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:59,920 be installed. And I guess for me, I've always said, if you take something away from from 160 00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:05,800 pedestrians, you have to give something back to them. You know what I mean? And so everybody 161 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:12,560 can still remain safe. If if the pedestrian and bikers are using that area, we're both 162 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:16,360 not taking something away from them. What are we going to put in a place to make sure 163 00:17:16,360 --> 00:17:23,800 that they're safe in this area? Sure, no, I think all your your comments are valid. 164 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:29,000 I think what probably is best for us to do is look into, like Chandra mentioned, the 165 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:35,640 future projects in this area, along with the future sidewalks, the future crossing that 166 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:40,740 we could provide and look at it overall and do the studies appropriately to understand 167 00:17:40,740 --> 00:17:46,560 what the traffic patterns are, not only from a traffic perspective, but also from a vehicular 168 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:51,120 bicycle and then also pedestrian perspective to see if there's additional things that need 169 00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:55,720 to happen in order for this roadway to close. And one of the things that's also going through 170 00:17:55,720 --> 00:18:00,560 my mind is I understand the entire police facility will not be closed until June of 171 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:06,040 twenty twenty two. So that does give the city some time to look into other things that could 172 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:10,640 happen in this area. I don't know exactly when their time frame and I could get with 173 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:18,440 the group that's doing the police headquarters to find out exactly what the time frame is. 174 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,840 But I would not anticipate at this point that they're actually going to be wanting to close 175 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:28,040 that immediately. So I think there's something we could do to work with them on when they're 176 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:33,720 actually going to be doing the installation of the fencing and and coordinate that with 177 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:40,440 some future type of improvement to allow for the crossing of McKinney Street specifically 178 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:45,880 related to some of the comments that Chandra made to maybe address some of these concerns. 179 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:49,800 If that's something y'all like for us to look into and discuss with them and bring back 180 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:55,320 at a later date, I think that that's it's really up to the commission as to how you 181 00:18:55,320 --> 00:19:04,740 would like for us to proceed forward. I have one more question. Okay. If they if they plan 182 00:19:04,740 --> 00:19:12,840 on closing this down and moving over all for 288, why are they putting a fence up here? 183 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:17,760 I'm sorry, I'm not following your question. The police station that's down on Hickory, 184 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:24,360 right? That's where they close it off. Well, they're building another. Am I correct that 185 00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:30,640 they're building another one on 288, that big building across Maldives? I'm sorry, sir. 186 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:36,000 The area down on loop 288 right by Aldi that you're referencing, I believe you're referencing 187 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:42,840 the county building, not the city. Okay, okay. I just want to make sure before. Okay, I understand 188 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:46,920 that I guess I was getting across because I thought everything down here. I thought everything 189 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:52,560 down here was moving over there. Yes, sir. The county facilities are being constructed 190 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:59,040 along loop 288 along with a future DPS facility in that area, but it will not be city facilities. 191 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:06,920 Okay, okay. That was my mix up. That was just my mix up. I'm sorry about that. Okay. I make 192 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,960 the same. I have to have trouble following the difference between city and county buildings 193 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:17,400 all the time. So I understand that one. I so a question I have and maybe I missed this 194 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,840 in the presentation, you may have already addressed this Becky. So I apologize if I'm 195 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:26,600 re-hashing. Why are the parking lots, the parking lots just not secure? Why do they 196 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:32,680 need to close the streets? Right? Like why not just, why not just build around the parking 197 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:38,000 lots? I'm just confused why the street needs to be closed. Exactly. Chandra, I think has 198 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:46,600 a comment. Yes, commissioner chair. This is Chandra. There were instances that I've been 199 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:53,040 told that police parked during those early morning hours that they park and cross the 200 00:20:53,040 --> 00:21:00,720 street. There were incidences that were unsafe for the police. And this is a couple of years 201 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:10,240 ago they had like incidents of that latest saying that they have to cross and the street 202 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:15,760 has been, the facility is on located on the south side and the parking is on the north 203 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:24,520 side. So it was told to us that you never know what can do and the public and the visitors, 204 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:31,040 anybody can use that street that will divide that facility. So if it's a one block when 205 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:37,000 they enter and they can secure, they can have all those secure features inside. So they 206 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:43,680 will have like a, that is what the renovations will accomplish as like instead of separate 207 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:49,480 facilities on buildings on the west side and the parking on the northern side and the other 208 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:56,480 buildings on the south side, they want to have one secure facility. So if I'm understand 209 00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:02,920 correctly, the police feel unsafe crossing the street between the parking lot and the 210 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:09,520 building? Yes, I think there were some instances that happened during the midnight or early 211 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:16,600 morning hours. So they feel that they have to secure the facilities since they have those 212 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:23,200 things there. So I can find out more details on what was that and I can communicate back. 213 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:28,160 Sure. I would love to know more, a little bit more about that because it is troubling 214 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:33,920 to think the idea of closing public streets with gates because I mean, it's, it feels 215 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,800 like the wrong solution. If, if I may put that forward, right. It feels like closing 216 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:42,000 the street, if there's some kind of security issues, because I mean the, it's not the rest 217 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:46,120 of the building would still be as accessible to the public as anything else. And so if 218 00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:50,280 there's security issues here, I think I'm curious to know more about those, but closing 219 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:55,400 entire public streets for that purpose. I mean, we don't do that anywhere else in the 220 00:22:55,400 --> 00:23:01,080 city. So it seems very out of line within any other policy that exists. I've never really 221 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:08,120 heard of that closing public streets. So, so police can cross the street. And that takes 222 00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:12,280 away a lot of access. So I'm fairly confused about why the street needs to be closed, you 223 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,360 know, closed now that we're hearing more about it. 224 00:23:14,360 --> 00:23:20,240 Well, I think the answer to the question for, and we're happy to bring the facilities team 225 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:27,040 and the PD back to answer any specific questions that you have. And I think really the comment 226 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:31,420 at this point is that the facility, the police department was parking on the south side of 227 00:23:31,420 --> 00:23:36,240 Hickory, which was a disconnect between the facility along with not enough parking for 228 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:41,720 their entire facility. And so what their hopes are is with closing off this area, having 229 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:48,000 a gated locked in area for all of the patrol vehicles, any of the additional police vehicles 230 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:53,360 where they're building an entire area, which is more of a headquarters type scenario where 231 00:23:53,360 --> 00:23:57,760 they have entrance from either the frame or the Oak Street area to be able to park their 232 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:03,480 vehicles. And I think that's, that's really the purpose of their request. I will also 233 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:08,120 tell you that based on the traffic that we've seen kind of going through that area, it's 234 00:24:08,120 --> 00:24:13,520 very minimal in nature based on the information that we have that there's not a lot of traffic 235 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:18,920 that actually takes that roadway due to the configuration. It sounds like a commissioner 236 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:23,760 or car has expressed that it's definitely something that from a bicycle standpoint that's 237 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:29,840 being used. But from our information that we have to date, it's not a typical path of 238 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:36,480 a vehicle that travels through that area. So it sounds like you have, you know, quite 239 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:42,960 a few comments and questions that you have brought up. So definitely want to do our best 240 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:48,440 to answer any of the questions or concerns that you might have and have the other individuals 241 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:55,400 a part of the conversation. I know they're very much interested in working to, you know, 242 00:24:55,400 --> 00:25:01,960 secure that entire facility and have all of their vehicles, all of their equipment housed 243 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:07,840 in a secured site, similar to how we have other sites along the city that are, you know, 244 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:12,560 completely gated areas such as the service center that have, you know, kind of that overall 245 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:18,640 gated area too. So I think that's really what their request is, is being able to have a 246 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:23,760 facility that is a gated facility that all of their vehicles can be parked in and allow 247 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:31,640 them access to that area, as you can tell. Does the service center, did they have closed 248 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:37,100 streets that were previously public that they closed at the service center location? I would 249 00:25:37,100 --> 00:25:44,760 have to look into that question. There is a road, a major road that dead ends into the 250 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:50,120 service center. If you've ever been over in that area, both roadways dead end and then 251 00:25:50,120 --> 00:25:54,440 it's closed in that area for where the actual service center is. But I would have to look 252 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:58,560 to see if there's an ordinance or a document that showed that closure. I do not know that 253 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:04,660 information off the top of my head. Okay, well, and one other thing I worry about 254 00:26:04,660 --> 00:26:08,680 a little bit is thinking through the unintended consequences to have this, for example, say 255 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:14,600 there's a wreck on McKinney right in that vicinity, right? And this would be a means 256 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,200 for people, for example, to get out of the traffic situation. I wonder about things like 257 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:22,560 that might be considered other unintended consequences. Well, so I think our options 258 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:27,560 today they give us three options on the agenda. It says approved French reclosures requested 259 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:33,120 decline French reclosures requested provide staff with alternative direction. I don't 260 00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:41,360 know. Do we need to vote on one of those three? Is that correct? Trey, can you verify that? 261 00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:46,880 If you're doing a like a straight up approval or or denial or even like an approval with 262 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:51,280 a comment, that would be a vote. If it's just staff direction, you would not need a vote 263 00:26:51,280 --> 00:27:00,160 on staff direction. Okay, so from the commission, I mean, we those are those are our choices. 264 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:07,720 I mean, do we? So it's a challenging to figure out how to answer this, because I would like 265 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:12,720 to know more, right? And I almost wonder if we could delay this. And if somebody wants 266 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:17,400 to come and present us with more information, but also if the maybe the police could explain 267 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:22,000 more the reasons for this if they wanted to attend, but then also could the city possibly 268 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:26,120 investigate some of these alternate issues that we're bringing up, for example, like 269 00:27:26,120 --> 00:27:31,520 could could the could even building something like this be paired with improvements to the 270 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:36,720 area, right? Could those be done simultaneously so that if there was something so so we could 271 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:41,200 at least know what the options are aside from just closing this, because right now as presented, 272 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:46,240 I think we're just being asked, should we go forward with this or not? It seems like 273 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:52,800 there's a lot of questions. So is that can we delay this? Is that Commissioner Carr and 274 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,380 Commissioner Thurmond and Commissioner sample? I'd love to hear you. Would you all be interested 275 00:27:56,380 --> 00:28:02,240 in in delaying this and learning more? I'll go in order Commissioner Carr. Go ahead. I 276 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:07,640 would agree. I'd like to see if you know, we can parlay this into, you know, another 277 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:16,400 way to cross McKinney and edits and in a safer way. That's what I would like to see. Okay. 278 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:21,240 So that that's one. That's a that would probably fit under the alternative direction. Commissioner 279 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,600 Thurmond and I'll come to Commissioner sample. Commissioner Thurmond, what are your thoughts? 280 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:30,920 Yeah, I'd like to see this brought back with more information from police and from traffic. 281 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:38,280 I have used that street before, both as a motorist and as a cyclist. It's not an everyday 282 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:47,600 street. I'll admit that. But I think there's too many questions for us to give a straight 283 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:57,680 up or down vote right now. And I would really like to see for come up with safer crossings 284 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:08,200 for cyclists and pedestrians. As Melissa mentions about Strava, Strava kind of measures what 285 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:14,000 I would call your elite cyclist because they're going to have the technology and they're the 286 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:21,640 more hardcore riders. But those people also happen to follow a lot of tracks that everyday 287 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:29,080 people use. And there's a lot of everyday people that are not being counted that Strava 288 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:35,360 doesn't count. But I would say that Strava is kind of like they're following the path 289 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:40,480 of least resistance. One of the things when we're making trails and things, we look for 290 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:45,080 a cow trail, and that's where the traffic is. And so that's a good place to base your 291 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:52,800 trails off of. So I'd like to see this come back with more input from the police of why 292 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:59,000 they want it, why they think it's necessary, and from traffic of what options we could 293 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:04,200 put in. Since this doesn't sound like something that's going to happen right away, I would 294 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:11,360 like to see something in place in advance of some of these other major improvements. 295 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,300 Thank you, Commissioner Thurmond. And also one point you made me think of is have we 296 00:30:15,300 --> 00:30:19,660 asked the people that live right next, the closest to the street, right, on the housing 297 00:30:19,660 --> 00:30:24,480 back in that area and those businesses, like whether, you know, how their feelings of the 298 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:31,720 street being closed and how that would affect them. Commissioner Sample, what are your thoughts? 299 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:40,040 I guess I would need to hear more if it's, I guess blatantly it's, I don't feel comfortable 300 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,860 closing something because the police say they feel uncomfortable when we're crossing the 301 00:30:43,860 --> 00:30:51,840 street. I mean, and that's my biggest drawback. You know, let's, I think we got to need to 302 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:59,040 hear more about it. Pacific, the real reason why they want to do it. If it's a safety issue 303 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:05,600 for them, what they're causing is safety for people who's riding bikes and walking. When 304 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:10,200 I was, I used to use that area. Everybody knows my back. So I used to use the area to 305 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:16,000 go from one side of town to the other. Everybody did. You know what I mean? Why? Because it 306 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:26,400 was safer than walking down McKinney. So before we can close off an area, let's try to fix 307 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:35,800 McKinney to make it safer. You can't put people and pedestrians in harm's way to make police 308 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:42,560 feel safe by crossing the street. You know what I mean? I mean, I'm sorry, I know it's 309 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:47,800 a serious matter, but I think you understand what I'm saying is that, so I would just have 310 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:55,200 to have, hear more about it. You know, the real reason why. It's a public street. So 311 00:31:55,200 --> 00:32:02,160 you're taking the street away from the public. Yeah. And I just, even more exploration if 312 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:06,920 would be possible. I would like to, just for time concerns, I would love to move forward 313 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:11,040 because it seems pretty clear that what we're going to request is bringing this back up 314 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:16,880 in a future meeting. And if, please let me know if I'm off base on this, but I think 315 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:21,720 our commission requests to be to bring something to future meeting with more understanding 316 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:30,720 of why this public street needs to be closed and possible alternatives. And then also possible 317 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:34,680 projects that could be paired if it were to be closed, seems to be my understanding of 318 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:43,240 the situation. Is that an accurate representation of the committee's views? Yes. Okay. All right. 319 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,960 I see a thumbs up from Commissioner Carr. Commissioner Sample said okay. And I got a 320 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:52,080 thumbs up from Commissioner Thurmond. So, officially Trey, yeah, sorry. You already, I think you 321 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:56,120 already answered this, but so can we, can we just request that? Do we need to do a vote 322 00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:02,040 just to request that this come up on a further, on another agenda when we're able to get a 323 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:08,080 more detailed report on some of those issues? To do it officially, you could do a, a motion 324 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:14,400 to postpone to a, to an event certain, and that would be just the step bringing back 325 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:22,920 the, the, you know, the next presentation. Okay. All right. So, if we can get a motion 326 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:30,560 to postpone this event until a, we can get further reports from somebody. Make a move 327 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:36,320 that we do that. Okay. Second that. And we have a second from Commissioner Carr. And 328 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:45,920 so if we can do a yay or nay, if that is approved, Commissioner Thurmond? Yay. Carr? Yay. And 329 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:52,040 Commissioner Sample? Yay. Okay. All right. So, and I am also a yay. And so our commission 330 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:57,920 would like to, to bring this back up at a further meeting. Okay. All right. So moving 331 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:06,800 on to our next issue. TSC 21-007, staff reports. We have a staff memorandum update regarding 332 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:11,400 the senior planner, bicycle, pedestrian, and ADA coordinator position and Google Drive 333 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:18,000 roundabouts. And then also we have items of interest for future consideration to discuss. 334 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:22,240 Thank you, Chair. So just wanted to give you a brief update before I turn it over to my 335 00:34:22,240 --> 00:34:29,280 friend, Daniel Kramer. So the senior bicycle, pedestrian, and ADA coordinator position, 336 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:35,520 we held interviews on April 9th. There were four candidates, and I know several folks 337 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:41,280 from our different committees were also a part of those interviews. And so with those 338 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:46,760 different applications and candidates, we had four great interviews. And I will tell 339 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:52,920 you that we are working through the process of having a second round of interviews, and 340 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:57,520 those are to be held this Friday. So just wanted to kind of keep you up to date as to 341 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:03,080 where that position is currently in the process. And so really that's just more of an informational 342 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:07,880 item for you. With that, I want to turn it over to Daniel Kramer. He's going to give 343 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:13,720 you an update to the Kinkle Drive roundabout. He's going to briefly just talk to you about 344 00:35:13,720 --> 00:35:18,840 a presentation he'll be making also to Mobility Committee on the 21st, and then it'll be a 345 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:23,920 part of a work session on April 27th. And so with that, Daniel, I will turn it over 346 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:37,800 to you. Thank you, Becky. Get my screen put up here. 347 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:51,080 Okay. Good afternoon, Chair and committee. I want to talk to you about the Hinkle Mimosa 348 00:35:51,080 --> 00:36:01,080 roundabout right at the intersection of Hinkle Mimosa here in Denton. So a roundabout, do 349 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:06,600 a little background on just what a basic roundabout is. You know, it's majorly there as a traffic 350 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:13,080 calming device to help slow down vehicle movement. It reduces some accident severity, and it 351 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:19,820 can also help with maintenance costs compared to some signalized intersections, as based 352 00:36:19,820 --> 00:36:25,800 on that versus a regular roundabout. It keeps traffic moving consistently as it goes through 353 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:33,520 instead of intersections or stop signs. This roundabout specifically was added to the Magnolia 354 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:41,080 drainage phase two project in 19, and was completed in October of 2020. So this is still 355 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:48,240 a new roundabout for our city. We've heard some concerns about the roundabout. A lot 356 00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:56,080 of them come from what I think is some confusion for the motorists, because this is not a familiar 357 00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:03,280 traffic intersection here in the city of Denton. Also that emergency vehicles as they're traversing 358 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:08,160 the roundabout, they have to drive over the center. And on this particular roundabout, 359 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:13,840 which is called a mini roundabout, that is the actual intent and design of it. We've 360 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:18,680 also had a couple of citizen complaints and accidents received to date. We've had two 361 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:25,880 engaged Denton requests and resident requests forwarded from two council members and two 362 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:31,280 calls from Denton PD about the roundabout. You know, we've also had zero claims that 363 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:41,760 have been reported to the city for any damages because of that. So we had some of the complaints 364 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:46,840 that came up were difference in the safety and the visibility of the roundabout. So what 365 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:53,960 staff did is we instigated a photometric study, which was completed back in March, that drove 366 00:37:53,960 --> 00:38:00,680 the roundabout in dusk and night areas to verify that there was good visibility. They 367 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:04,800 had a few recommendations that came out of that, which was to add additional reflective 368 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:11,900 pavement markings on the median noses to help make those more visible. Some LED solar rays 369 00:38:11,900 --> 00:38:17,920 pavement markers and upgrade the light poles and current lighting in the area. And that 370 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:24,840 was on the Hinkle side. On Mimosa, they suggested modifying the curb and median geometry, which 371 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:30,220 would help with vehicles being able to get through the intersection better and also increase 372 00:38:30,220 --> 00:38:35,600 the distance from the outside curb of the road narrowing farther back because they did 373 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:38,600 notice there were some vehicles that were parked close to the roundabout, which making 374 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:46,440 it hard to get in and out of the roundabout. What we estimate for those costs is an additional 375 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:54,760 $22,000 to get those costs added to the roundabout. It was also brought to our attention that 376 00:38:54,760 --> 00:39:00,280 there are some ideas about just removing the roundabout and putting that traditional four-way 377 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:07,320 stop with stop signs in there. Now, when we do that, it does have some concerns that we'll 378 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:14,360 bring up, which will be slowing the traffic flow in the area. And also, as everybody knows, 379 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:19,080 stop signs are not always observed by all motorists at all times. So there is a chance 380 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:23,200 of people actually running the stop signs and going through there, which is true in 381 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:29,200 any intersection that we do have. Also, the confusion of the right to proceed protocol 382 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:33,720 when you have a four-way stop and making sure the proper vehicle goes first. And another 383 00:39:33,720 --> 00:39:39,820 issue is that we've already incurred roughly $137,000 to already have this roundabout installed 384 00:39:39,820 --> 00:39:47,920 and in place at the time. Some of the benefits that we will have is the actual striping and 385 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:53,880 the signs, it's more familiar for the motorist. They're used to it, so it won't be as big 386 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,720 of a change and something they'll have to get used to. And also, the maintenance cost 387 00:39:57,720 --> 00:40:03,180 of the striping and signage is a little bit less than what the current roundabout would 388 00:40:03,180 --> 00:40:11,320 be on the striping side. So to actually remove this and put the concrete back, I mean, sorry, 389 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:15,280 the asphalt and remove the concrete and put it back to a four-way stop is actually going 390 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:20,320 to be right around about $140,000 to do that. 391 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:25,120 After looking at all these concerns and everything, staff is looking at recommendations for upgrades 392 00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:29,600 based on the photometric study to improve the visibility. We are going to be working 393 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:35,640 with DME to go forward with the street light plan. One thing that has been brought up is 394 00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:42,680 they will also be bringing on the 27th to city council a neighborhood LED plan for some 395 00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:49,920 concerns about migration, migratory birds, and the lighting plan for the neighborhoods 396 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:54,160 in the area. So from that direction, from city council, we will be looking at how much 397 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:59,720 additional light we can add and look at that for that. And with that, I will stop sharing 398 00:40:59,720 --> 00:41:06,640 my screen and ask for any questions or comments. 399 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:14,000 Thank you for the presentation. Do we have questions from commissioners who want to let 400 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:20,000 me know? Commissioner Thurman, go ahead. 401 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:26,000 I know that the roundabout has gotten a lot of derision on social media, but I'm hesitant 402 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:31,560 to take the roundabout out because that's basically we would have spent a quarter of 403 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:39,100 a million dollars of taxpayer money to get back to what we had. And I think that's not 404 00:41:39,100 --> 00:41:46,000 fiscally responsible of us. So I like the improvements that they're talking about. But 405 00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:53,820 what about bike lane ending? And can we do anything with that? Because that presents 406 00:41:53,820 --> 00:42:00,700 a hazard. And that is a main corridor. And we talked a lot about this when this project 407 00:42:00,700 --> 00:42:03,880 was being initiated. 408 00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:11,440 Correct. We are looking at that. This specific one was just about pretty much removing or 409 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:17,040 keeping the roundabout. We have had discussions and we will be working with traffic and also 410 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:21,320 engineering and making sure that we can get those bike lanes in and get some connectivity 411 00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,520 across the city on that, especially in this area. 412 00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:29,840 Can you clarify what does the process look like when you say you're looking at it? Does 413 00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:37,320 that mean it's going to be come up at specific times? Or how does that timeline work? 414 00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:42,760 We've had discussions in the area. We do know there's some connectivity issues as how they 415 00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:50,880 go through and how the bike lanes abruptly end in certain areas. We are looking at some 416 00:42:50,880 --> 00:43:00,320 different -- I'm trying to look at a picture of the roundabout to make sure I'm calling 417 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:06,760 this correctly. But with the curb widening and how we're looking at with modifying that, 418 00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:11,360 there are some options that we can. I will be working with Chandra on that as we implement 419 00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:17,240 those and go forward. We will have some more plans going forward. We don't have an in depth 420 00:43:17,240 --> 00:43:19,520 on that right now. 421 00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:24,840 Okay. Thank you. I think I certainly agree that's something we would want to follow up 422 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:34,440 on. So it seems if I'm hearing this right, Daniel, it's kind of not a high level of number 423 00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:39,040 of complaints we're getting here, right? I think especially with a new type of system 424 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:43,200 like a roundabout, most people are used to stop signs, you expect to get some. But it 425 00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:48,680 seems like a pretty low number of complaints that we've got so far. Is that a correct characterization? 426 00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:57,960 Yes, sir. We do have some system that are vocal about it and don't like it. Just like 427 00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:02,480 with anything new, it's something to get used to. On our side, we probably could have done 428 00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:08,640 a better job of some public outreach and doing some more teaching on how to use roundabouts 429 00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:14,600 and getting some more information out, which we will be pushing forward with our public 430 00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:18,800 outreach committee on that to make sure that we can get that out, sorry, not committee 431 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,640 of the department. So we can make sure that they get that out to the public so they understand 432 00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:26,880 how to properly navigate a roundabout and they can go forward. 433 00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:32,820 Thank you. Thank you. Other commissioner comments? Commissioner Carr? 434 00:44:32,820 --> 00:44:38,080 I do like the improvements that you guys are making and I think it would be better to do 435 00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:47,160 that than to scrap the whole thing and to start over with just a four way stop. So I'm 436 00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:52,520 totally great with the improvements and I would like to thank Clay for bringing up the 437 00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:58,560 fact that the bike lanes do not go all the way through, that you have to stop, you have 438 00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:04,240 to get in the lane, go around the roundabout and then get back in the bike lane. I'm hoping 439 00:45:04,240 --> 00:45:11,840 that that does change. I don't know, I can't remember why that was something that got, 440 00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:17,520 that was approved like that, but I would love it if it could change. That's for the record. 441 00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:21,320 Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Carr. And I think, 442 00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,880 I think that's an issue we've been talking about recently, right, is that we're a lot 443 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:29,120 of, I think the city's work is trying to fix old mistakes. Unfortunately, some new roads 444 00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:33,480 are getting built. We're still seeing some of the same mistakes, sidewalks that are either 445 00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:38,560 unsafe or discontinued and bike lanes that abruptly end things like that. So hopefully 446 00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:43,760 that's something overall in planning we can look at. But with that, I mean, I agree with 447 00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:49,560 the commissioners that have spoken. I think I'm in favor of making the suggested changes. 448 00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:55,760 I don't think redoing this would be a smart financial move in the city, especially for 449 00:45:55,760 --> 00:46:01,720 the number of complaints that we've heard, which seems relatively low to what I've heard. 450 00:46:01,720 --> 00:46:08,080 Is there any other commissioner comments or can we, do we want to make a recommendation? 451 00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:13,760 Chair, you actually do not have to make a recommendation on this. This is just a staff 452 00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:17,800 item that we brought forward to you for more of an informational purpose. It will be a 453 00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:23,640 work session item that is going to be on city council on the 27th. But it is just really 454 00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:29,520 more of a FYI of something we're currently going through and evaluating so that we brought 455 00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:34,640 that to your attention. Okay, perfect. Thank you, Becky. And with that, then it would mean 456 00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:40,000 that we just the last item would be identified items of interest for future staff reports 457 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:44,640 or update up to the agenda that have been made. Sure. And I wanted to really quickly 458 00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:50,000 just touch on a couple of comments that were made. We do realize there are some situations 459 00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:56,480 out there similar to this roundabout where we can do increased public outreach to show 460 00:46:56,480 --> 00:47:02,880 how individuals will make their way through this roundabout, particularly we understand, 461 00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:06,660 you know, our fire department, solid waste department, but then also just regular vehicular 462 00:47:06,660 --> 00:47:11,880 traffic. But I know also the bicycle traffic has been brought up and pedestrian traffic, 463 00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:18,080 I'm sure is also always a concern. These will be things that the senior planner, bike 464 00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:23,840 ped ADA coordinator will look at and review from a perspective of any new project that 465 00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:28,720 we're putting in. And we've seen quite a few examples of things that maybe didn't go exactly 466 00:47:28,720 --> 00:47:32,600 the way that we would have liked for them to that are now kind of things that we're 467 00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:37,640 having to go back similar to like what Daniel mentioned on this roundabout and look at what 468 00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:42,040 we can do to try to improve that area. So please understand that it definitely is on 469 00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:47,440 our radar and something that we want to continue to try to address as those concerned arise, 470 00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:54,520 not only from a vehicular traffic, but also from that pedestrian and bicycle traffic perspective. 471 00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:59,960 So just just wanted to make mention of that. It's definitely on our radar. So thank you, 472 00:47:59,960 --> 00:48:04,400 Becky. We appreciate that. And I think I think one one thing I could if I could add really 473 00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:09,680 briefly to I'll say is, you know, I think sometimes these decisions in cities are hard 474 00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:13,240 because we always want to be responsive to the public. But sometimes it's also challenging 475 00:48:13,240 --> 00:48:18,920 to make, you know, kind of use best practice decisions that are going to be safe for citizens 476 00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:23,880 even in light of like a kind of a small minority not wanting something in the city. So I think 477 00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:28,840 I understand how hard it is to navigate those challenges, too. So we appreciate the committee. 478 00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:32,280 And I guess that's kind of what we see. I see as part of our job as a committee is to 479 00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:36,520 ensure that, you know, things like this are as safe as possible, which include things 480 00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:41,120 like bike lanes. So thank you all for going through that process. 481 00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:45,240 No problem at all. We're happy to help. So with the last item, I really just wanted to 482 00:48:45,240 --> 00:48:50,200 go through in your package, you saw kind of a future agenda item. There's some agenda 483 00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:55,760 items on here that are have been on here for quite some time. A lot of them are older than 484 00:48:55,760 --> 00:49:02,200 myself and my time in the department. And so wanted to take this time to do a little 485 00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:06,320 bit of a cleanup and make sure that we're all on the same page with what items you'd 486 00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:11,880 like to have brought be brought back forward. I'm just so I can work on a scheduling with 487 00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:17,520 our committee and with the commission and then also a schedule with our staffing and 488 00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:20,920 make sure that we're allocating appropriate time to be able to bring these things back 489 00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:28,200 to you. The first item that you see is provide urbanization options for Carol from Mulberry 490 00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:35,820 to Oak and then Bell from Mulberry to McKinney. The last comment I see is that concepts are 491 00:49:35,820 --> 00:49:45,600 being developed. Is that something that the commission is still interested in discussing? 492 00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:49,280 And I'm going to go through these one by one so that I get clear understanding and that 493 00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:54,880 I can provide these provide these back to you in a time frame with a schedule associated 494 00:49:54,880 --> 00:50:01,600 with that. I'll I'll answer quickly that I was the requester on that one. And I think 495 00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:05,280 these are these are actually some I've been bringing up these streets specifically probably 496 00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:10,480 since I started on the committee commission in 2016 because I see them as the most dangerous 497 00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:14,480 streets. Particularly, you know, I I'll just say real quickly, I cross Bell a lot to go 498 00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:19,520 over to armadillo and to go over to the little restaurant over there. And we still lack good 499 00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:23,820 crossing and sidewalks on those areas. And these are like in our course. So so the question 500 00:50:23,820 --> 00:50:28,520 is is what would long term plans look like to address these kind of streets? And we've 501 00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:32,640 done some of the work already, like for example, on McKinney, we have a really good crosswalk 502 00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:37,400 that I love using and used all the time now that that was installed. And so those are 503 00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:41,280 what when we talk about urbanization options, those are consideration. We've also talked 504 00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:47,520 about these streets potentially, you know, getting re urbanized and considering do they 505 00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:51,680 need as many lanes as they have, I've particularly brought up Carol around that this Carol needs 506 00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:56,780 six lanes of traffic, I'd argue living on I live right on Carol, that it never has bad 507 00:50:56,780 --> 00:51:04,080 traffic that necessitates six lanes. So anyway, so yeah, so I asked that's my basic concern 508 00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:09,220 I had with that is that I don't think that those streets are very safe to be this close 509 00:51:09,220 --> 00:51:13,320 to our core where you have more pedestrians and cyclists. And so are there options that 510 00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:17,000 we can look at in the short and long term to address those? So yeah, I would love to 511 00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:21,440 see some kind of report on that if possible. Okay, and I think that probably goes with 512 00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:27,160 the second item is hawk signals for pedestrian crossing on Carol in long stretches. So that 513 00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:34,240 would be similar to that common is not only a pedestrian but bicycle type mobility concern. 514 00:51:34,240 --> 00:51:40,200 So understand that. The third item is hawk signals for pedestrian crossing on Teasley 515 00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:45,420 between Hobson and Londonderry. And I know that there's some tech stock coordination 516 00:51:45,420 --> 00:51:48,720 that's currently going on with that. And I also know that's one that has recently come 517 00:51:48,720 --> 00:51:54,680 up in some discussions with our parks department and something that we are actually looking 518 00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:59,480 into. So I think that one's kind of already in the works. And as soon as we have some 519 00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:05,280 more information, I also believe that was part of a recent Friday report, but we are 520 00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:12,200 definitely that one's something that we're aware of. Commissioner Thurman, I see bike 521 00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:20,260 box at Oak at Locust and then Hickory at Carol. I'm not sure if you've received any updates 522 00:52:20,260 --> 00:52:34,680 on that, sir. No, I haven't. And I just still think that adding some bike boxes downtown 523 00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:40,560 is a good starting point to start teaching some of our motorists and citizens about this. 524 00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:49,720 And the thing about, you know, when I ride my bike up Oak and hit Locust there, you know, 525 00:52:49,720 --> 00:52:57,400 it's still a little bit on an incline, but the bike route ends right there at that intersection. 526 00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:03,400 And so you have to merge with traffic. And by having a bike box there, I know it's a 527 00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:09,440 little tight with the sidewalk and the crossing there, but something like that would, I think 528 00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:16,400 would benefit. Okay, thank you for that. Becky, I'll add, I actually looking at this, it seems 529 00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:20,960 like items one through seven are very closely related to each other, right? I mean, what 530 00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:24,720 we're looking at is what would make these streets safer. They include bike boxes, they 531 00:53:24,720 --> 00:53:32,160 include hawk signals on core streets. Now, the only thing is, I think item, let's see, 532 00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:36,920 we do bring up Locust also, which may not, those are included in the original streets, 533 00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:42,200 but I think these could be rewritten as one, if you wanted to, for ease that we could get 534 00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:48,320 a report on, and please let me know commission if I'm correct on these, but that we're looking 535 00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:55,320 for ways to enhance pedestrians and bicycle safety on core streets, especially ones that 536 00:53:55,320 --> 00:54:00,760 have high speeds with solutions like bike boxes, with solutions like hawk signals. If 537 00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:04,480 that could be, maybe we could reduce that to one thing that could then be reported back 538 00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:10,440 on that would help ease the matrix and move us forward. Sure. I think that makes sense. 539 00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:14,640 And I think Commissioner Stamp will be happy to know his comment that he just recently 540 00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:20,400 made is also on the matrix about McKinney Street. So sir, I see your comment. So I think 541 00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:25,520 that's apparent and it appears that a lot of this is kind of in the downtown area, but 542 00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:30,920 then also kind of those common core, oh, Kickery, Carroll, McKinney type roadways. So definitely 543 00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:35,640 appreciate that. So we'll go through and kind of look at those one through seven and see 544 00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:42,200 how we can consolidate that number eight actually says construction signage for lane closures, 545 00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:46,280 walking sidewalks for street construction projects. I think that's kind of an ongoing 546 00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:51,160 situation that we have that we are addressing as those types of things arrive, but then 547 00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:56,840 also discussing with our inspections department and other folks. I know that's something that 548 00:54:56,840 --> 00:55:01,400 as it comes up, obviously we're addressing as quickly as we possibly can. Is there something 549 00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:08,960 else with that particular question that I might not be aware of? That's me too. In short, 550 00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:13,000 I would love to know, is there a policy in place? I don't know if there is. Is there 551 00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:18,800 a policy in place that indicates to staff who are the ones putting up the construction 552 00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:27,000 signs in roadways to try to reduce blocking pedestrian access on sidewalks when possible, 553 00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:31,040 right? And I don't even know if when possible, it seems like it's always a problem that they, 554 00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:36,480 and it's still coming up. I run around in the core and just very frequently that, you 555 00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:40,400 know, we have three lanes of traffic and one of them are closed. And then we block the 556 00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:45,920 sidewalk saying that the one lane of traffic is closed. So if that makes sense. So to me, 557 00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:51,080 what we need is a city policy on this that is directly goes to the people who put the 558 00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:56,280 signs up. So I don't know if that's something city council would pass or if something that's 559 00:55:56,280 --> 00:56:00,120 something that could just be put forward. But I guess, so I guess what I would like 560 00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:05,600 to know is can we, if there's not already a policy, can that become a policy? And then 561 00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:10,320 in cases of violation, can we know clearly who we can let know and communicate that this 562 00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:16,600 is being violated still. So does that make sense? No, that makes complete sense. I think 563 00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:22,760 really it's a traffic control perspective, also a, you know, really just a public works 564 00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:28,640 inspection type scenario, something that we could probably not only teach our internal 565 00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:32,920 folks that are doing construction, but then also our contractors and maybe make it a part 566 00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:39,360 of our standard pre-construction scenario so that if the sidewalk needs to be blocked 567 00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:45,100 for a reason, then there's the why behind it is easily understood versus just assuming 568 00:56:45,100 --> 00:56:49,720 that you're blocking the roadway and the sidewalk. So I understand that pedestrian traffic is 569 00:56:49,720 --> 00:56:53,480 still important. So let us think through what's the best way to address that. It seems to 570 00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:59,120 me that it could just be a, at this point, maybe just a process that we do a little bit 571 00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:04,600 of education to all the folks that are involved so they can understand from a public works 572 00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:10,080 and then also, you know, a construction crew, internal crew type scenario and then a public 573 00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:14,480 works inspection and also work with our building inspections department. So I understand where 574 00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:21,280 you're going with that comment. That's fabulous. The bike ballards on Hickory, I do believe 575 00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:26,040 and luckily I have Danny here. I do believe the bike ballards on Hickory was due to the 576 00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:31,080 spacing and that cars could actually park in between those bike ballards. And I think 577 00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:36,440 that that has been addressed. I believe that's what that comment is. I know we were looking 578 00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:41,400 at installing some additional ones and then I know we were possibly needing to purchase 579 00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:48,080 some additional bicycle ballards. Danny, and of course I'm putting you on the spot, but 580 00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:53,800 do you have any updates for that one? If not, then we can definitely bring that back. 581 00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:57,280 I will have to follow up on that exact one. I know we placed an order to get some more 582 00:57:57,280 --> 00:58:03,520 ballards just recently. So I'll confirm if we had enough in stock to finish that or we 583 00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:08,440 were going to have to get more for that. Perfect. So we can look into that one, that common 584 00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:15,440 speed limit messages also within that one through seven we've already discussed. There 585 00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:21,200 was a, I guess, a portion of sidewalk that was missing crosswalk sidewalk connection 586 00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:26,280 near Barley and board, which that's kind of also within that one through seven. Also, 587 00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:33,880 it's that area kind of around the downtown and then a faded crosswalk. So that's definitely 588 00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:38,720 one we can look into. That's at Bolivar and McKinney. And that's something that we can 589 00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:43,900 look into with Danny's team and traffic operations. I think that was one that you mentioned was 590 00:58:43,900 --> 00:58:48,640 fading and was there a way that it could be restriped if it was going to be put back? 591 00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:53,280 We'll have to look into the logistics behind that one. So those make sense. I think the 592 00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:57,000 policy on that one is that they were going to take it away, which is kind of the opposite 593 00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:01,880 of I think what we need to be happening, right? So because my wife reported that because she 594 00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:07,080 almost got hit by a car there and they said, we're sorry, the faded crosswalk is there. 595 00:59:07,080 --> 00:59:11,360 We're trying to get rid of it so people don't cross anymore, which is feels like the wrong 596 00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:16,200 answer because it's a Bolivar is a good cross street for I think a lot of people going downtown. 597 00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:19,800 So so yeah, by the way, and I just want to say, Becky, thank you for going through these 598 00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:24,160 and like attending to them. This is this makes me feel really good because I feel like we've 599 00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:28,560 been suggesting some things that we just don't get answers on. And this is a wonderful process. 600 00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:32,640 So thank you for taking the time to go through the Oh, no problem at all. And what I'd like 601 00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:38,560 to do and I appreciate that is take the time to consolidate them and really make sure that 602 00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:44,200 they're kind of in the order. And the information makes sense. It seems like maybe the list 603 00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:49,400 of 12 might be more like three or four, if we consolidate a few of those. And so then 604 00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:53,780 we can bring those back to you on specific timeframes. Sometimes it's difficult to bring 605 00:59:53,780 --> 00:59:57,840 it back exactly the next month, just to due to the fact that it may take us a little bit 606 00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:02,040 of time to do some research. But I'd like to start marking these off the list and getting 607 01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:06,100 them addressed, or at least bringing you back a report that discuss that as part of our 608 01:00:06,100 --> 01:00:12,480 staff update, just just so that we're being responsive to your request. So I guess with 609 01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:23,860 that the last thing I would ask is there any additional that you wanted to add to the list? 610 01:00:23,860 --> 01:00:27,480 I know I don't have any additions and the other commissioners I don't know if the things 611 01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:33,880 discussed earlier would be considered an addition the issues around McKinney in that area about, 612 01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:38,440 but that's kind of also within the one through seven. Sure, I want to consider that right. 613 01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:42,120 But more specifically, that as we continue to look at that issue, maybe that's something 614 01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:47,280 we'd add to the agenda. So it has a formal place to is looking at pedestrian issues on 615 01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:53,520 McKinney near Frame Street. Sure. And the the Frame Street Oak Street closure, since 616 01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:57,160 it is an item that is going to require your recommendation, we'll bring that back as a 617 01:00:57,160 --> 01:01:02,640 separate item even the next time. And we'll involve folks from our facilities team that 618 01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:06,720 is actually delivering that project along with the police department and work to address 619 01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:11,420 the concerns. We'll also look at the overview of really what are the projects we have planned 620 01:01:11,420 --> 01:01:19,200 for that area so that we can answer the mobility questions that have come about. So I anticipate 621 01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:23,040 and expect that item to stay kind of on its own legs just because it definitely needs 622 01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:28,720 a formal recommendation so that it can move forward to council. We will need to move it 623 01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:32,880 out though because we want to be able to bring it back to you first before we go to council 624 01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:39,840 in April and late April. So that will happen. But I appreciate it. So thank you for taking 625 01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:43,880 the time to go through the agenda with me. I wanted to make sure that I'm being responsive 626 01:01:43,880 --> 01:01:48,440 to your requests and that our team is is looking into all of these different requests that 627 01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:53,480 come through. So I apologize to have to go back a couple of years, but I'm looking for 628 01:01:53,480 --> 01:01:57,840 that knowledge base just so I can make sure I'm understanding. And I do appreciate you 629 01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:03,400 taking the time to listen to me. Thank you. Thank you. And I think with that, if there's 630 01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:10,460 no further business, I think we can this meeting can be adjourned.