I'll hand it over to Mr.
Presley-Taylor to give us a
little bit more detail.
>> Hi, good afternoon everyone
and welcome to our monthly parks
and recreation and beautification
board meeting.
It's 3.04 p.m.
Our chair, Ms. Presley-Taylor will be
joining us later during the meeting.
We are scheduled to go until 5 p.m.
First order of business is to mention
that the meeting will start at 5 p.m.
We'll get started on the orders of
business.
I'm going to ask if we had any
comments of someone on the phone.
Do we have any phone comments
waiting?
Okay.
Hearing none.
We'll get started on the orders of
business.
So our first order of business is
to approve the minutes from the
March 8th meeting.
So I will need a motion unless
someone has any questions or
feedback they wanted to give.
So we'll get started on the
orders of business.
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>> There's a little bit of a
delay.
I think because the file is
large.
>> No problem.
These are just images in the
next two slides of what these
elements could be.
Again, some images that we
showed the public, and they
were able to vote on these.
We sent them a survey, and
you'll see that in the
report that shows what they
can vote on and what these
elements could be.
Next slide.
Same thing with some of the
elements, and we were able to
give them an opportunity to
go through each concept of
what side elements and give
them an opportunity to be
involved in choosing and
selecting what some of these
elements can potentially be
for each concept.
This is option two.
This is a bit more elaborate.
This is a radial concept here
where you've got a larger 40 by
40 covered pavilion there in
the center, and we've added
now a nut tree orchard on the
bottom left as opposed to then
also the fruit tree stand on
the right.
We've got labeled four as the
existing playground equipment
that we definitely wanted to
preserve there.
Again, the loop trail all the
way around the park, and they
were really happy with making
sure that this loop trail is
incorporated.
We added some additional shade
trees all along the trail there.
Again, the same concept of
having the proposed trail going
to the east side.
Proposed parking with this one
being an angled parking, but
again, in the community garden
here, a different layout there,
but we've got an ADA all the way
around the edge there, so having
more ADA accessibility, more
trails, more access, and
benches.
Again, these are some
representative images of what
these elements could be.
Then option three, this last
one is quite a bit more
elaborate, but they really
gravitated to this really long
loop that we've created here.
This is a bit different from the
other two.
We extended the loop trail all
the way north as far as we can.
It really took advantage of the
park real estate here on that
north end, added some trees as
well on that north end.
Again, on the south, taking
advantage of the real estate on
the south and expanded the
garden so that we can use up as
much as we can with the space,
using up a lot of that real
estate too for ADA accessibility
for gardens there.
Taking along that same line,
some of that tree, the fruit
trees, having that more on the
east side away from the
playground and the pavilion
there.
That pavilion is quite a bit
larger too.
That pavilion is more of that
canvas covering that comes in
different colors.
They really like that one.
Same thing with the parking.
You've got quite a bit more
parking.
Square footage there with head
and parking, but yeah, all of
that, everything here in this
concept is quite a bit more
extravagant and a lot larger as
far as square footage.
Again, this is some
representative images to
accommodate this concept.
So from -- go to the next slide.
We really took -- from what we
showed them, they were really
good about giving us their
feedback.
I'm not sure if you were able
to look at the report summary.
We've got about 25 responses.
Oh, this is the last one.
This one, they didn't really
like this one from the
response.
This is a labyrinth that we
had added at the very end here.
This is a more meditative piece
that we added at the end.
And again, the process of our
getting to our final plan.
And we gave them the feedback
of all these concepts.
And from the -- and from what we
gathered, they really liked one
and two from the conversations
live.
They really liked two and then
really liked having the long
loop all the way around and they
talked through having a crossing
and I think the parts can talk
through some of this.
They were talking about crossing
at Windsor.
Mainly they talked about
Dianite, I believe.
Wasn't that right, Barry?
They talked a lot about the
path route.
>> Yes, that was true to see if
we could do a mid-block crossing
at Windsor to cross over into
North Lakes and also have a
trail connection on the south
side of Windsor to be able to
connect to the new fireside
community and to the North Lakes
recreation center.
>> Right.
So we made sure to let them know
that these are not final concepts
that we were willing to take
pieces and parts of each concept
to make one big one, one cohesive
park so that they felt that they
had an ownership in the design of
the concept but making sure, too,
that the city had final decisions
and that you guys had decision
making in it as well.
>> We also made an effort to
-- concept one was the least
expensive, concept two was kind
of a mid-range concept as far as
cost goes, and concept three was
the most expensive.
And so I thought Bounded
interesting, you know, most
people tend to gravitate the
most -- toward the most expensive
ones, and they didn't here.
They really --
>> Right.
>> -- lean towards the ones
that were a little less expensive
but that had some distinct
features like the long trail loop.
>> Right.
They liked making sure that --
they really liked the fact that
you guys were wanting to focus
on the ADA concerns.
They wanted to be sure that you
kept it green, but making sure
that trail was still a priority.
They wanted to be sure that that
was still a priority.
I know there was some concern
about having some trail and
concrete there, but I think that
was still in the comments made
sure that that was still part of
the concept.
So if you look through some of
the summary, a lot of it, they
were really -- overall, they were
really happy that they were part
of the process and that they were
given the opportunity to be
involved in it.
So not sure where we want to go
as far as selecting a concept
here, but I -- I mean, clearly,
40%, 40% to 36% are leaning
towards one and two with making
sure that we have that longer
trail all -- going all the way
north, and then we can go
through the elements and picking
those out as we go through the
final stages.
>> So Park Board, Gary Pack, and
Director of Parks and Recreation,
one of the main reason we're
working on this project as well
as Villages of Carmel is because
we wanted to make some
improvements in those parks.
Obviously, Villages of Carmel is
a new acquisition.
We just purchased it about two
years ago.
We're looking to get some
projects that are shovel-ready
that we can go out and apply for
Texas Parks and Recreation
grants.
We did have funding in both of
these locations from our
915/916, our Parkland
Dedication Development Fund.
So that was another consideration
of looking at these parcels.
Bowling Green had an opportunity
to add some more trails, put a
loop trail in for people to a
little bit more enjoy that space,
as well as we knew that we needed
to make some improvements to the
garden area because it was not ADA
accessible.
And there had been discussion in
the past about extending that
park trail up and connecting it
to North Lakes Park so you could
go east and west in that
property as well.
So those are the two reasons why
we picked those parcels.
We could do the same process in
just about every one of our parks,
but we wanted to get these ready
so we could go after some grant
applications and get some
projects kind of in the queue,
per se.
So we had them ready to go once
grant opportunities developed.
So that's the reason why we
started this.
We had a public meeting, like we
said last week, and we can share
with that recording to you as
soon as it's posted.
But we wanted to get some
feedback from the park board as
well so we could go back with the
consultants and identify what
pieces and parts everybody likes
the best and try to take
something from each one of those
and build a recommendation that
we could come back to you, figure
out what it's going to cost, and
then eventually get approval and
go to city council and then start
on construction drawings.
So with that, I'll open up the--
George, open up to the floor for
feedback and comments.
>> Yeah, absolutely.
I see that our chair is in the
meeting now, so we are on the
second item for consideration.
Hi.
Welcome for talking about
Bowling Green.
They just gave the presentation
and now we're going to open it up
to questions, and I'll give this
back over to you, Madam Chair.
>> Thanks, George.
Can I request that we just start
when this is over, and I will
start with Zeke.
>> Got you.
Okay, so I actually do have a
question that I wanted to ask.
So I--'cause I looked at the
presentation and read the backup
earlier, I was wondering, A,
I'm really glad to hear that
there's so much, like, want from
the community and options that
were given.
I think that's a really cool,
innovative idea that I'd like to
see, like, moving forward on all,
I guess, decisions for parks,
'cause I think the more people
in the creation of it, the more
they're going to want to go to
it, right?
You know, whether it's choosing
the style of trash cans or
benches to, like, an actual
entire feature, I think that's
a really--it gives equity to--
and power to the people to feel
like they were a part of that
creation, and I think that's a
really cool idea.
So, A, thank you for that really
innovative plan.
And, two, my question is, so you
said about 40% of the people
wanted either option one or two
with the longer path from option
three.
I guess, as far as budget is--as
far as numbers have been
crunched, what did those options
look like?
Did I miss that somewhere in the
presentation?
>> We didn't--we deliberately
didn't present costs.
>> Okay.
>> And the reason being that we
just wanted it for now.
We don't want that to--none of
these are extravagantly
expensive, and the really
different is just the finish of
the materials, okay?
And I do know that they range
from, you know, 700,000 to about
1.6 million, depending on what
was chosen as far as details and
finishes.
So, the layouts, though, each
one of the layouts could be
built economically with just
without high-end expensive
finishes, I guess is the best
way to put it.
>> Yeah, understood.
Okay.
That's--thank you for that
answer.
And then I guess my thing is, my
other question, my follow-up
question is, the difference
between the pavilion size in
option one and option two, I
guess--I know everything's
hypothetical and projected, but
are they--they're pretty stark,
is that correct?
>> Well, the--
>> I think the first one, it was
about 20 by 40, and the other
one was 40 by 40.
So, not too significantly
different.
I think it's just a matter of,
you know, the form that you
want to take.
>> Yeah, one's a single ridge,
and the second one is a double
ridge.
Okay, so that's the difference.
One's a little more
architecturally detailed than
the other.
>> Got it.
I was just thinking, like, that
covered meeting space, how large
it would be, the more people
that could be in that gathering
area.
>> Right.
>> Because I really like that
idea, and I like that it's kind
of central to where the planting
beds are and, like, all the play
areas and the trees.
I think that's really smart.
And I agree that I like the path
from the third option as well.
I think the longer that path,
the more, you know, people are
going to love to run it or, you
know, be a part of it, be on it.
And with that, I will yield to
anybody else that has questions
or comments.
Thank you.
>> Okay, well, I have a
question.
You talked about meeting with
the community.
Are there additional meetings
for the community?
>> As at -- as of right now, we
wouldn't schedule another
meeting for general feedback.
We would take your information,
put that together, and then we
could either open it up and get
feedback from the community as
a whole and then take it to
City Council to bring it back to
you for another open comment and
then back to City Council for
another open comment.
But we would try to take as much
as we can from that public
meeting and our needs
assessment, all the information
that we have, integrate that
into the plan and then bring it
back to you for consideration
and then back and then to City
Council for approval.
>> Okay.
Thank you.
And so when you come back to us,
that is when we will have an
opportunity to see the cost?
>> Yes.
>> That next phase is once we
get the general program elements
where you say, oh, yeah, we kind
of like this lab, we kind of
like this pavilion, we kind of
like this, then we'll refine
that and then give you a line
item cost estimate that will
tell you exactly -- well, not
exactly, but close enough to
where we think it should be.
>> And also to help answer that
question, the cost today could
be different tomorrow.
We've seen a really big swing
in construction costs lately.
And we don't have the full
funding to do even the cheapest
option at the moment because we
would need to get everything
packaged together, have
construction documents, and
then go after those grants.
And typically, if something bad
was to happen and we were to go
into recession, we saw all those
costs tremendously go down in
the 2008, 2010 time period.
Really, that's the time to build
for us, so, you know, we would
secure the money and then build
when the time was good.
Right now, it's probably not
this -- you know, it wouldn't be
the -- we wouldn't get the best
bang for our buck at the moment,
so.
>> Okay. Thank you so much.
>> Thank you.
>> Yes.
>> I've got a question regarding
the trash cans.
I know this seems like a strange
question, but I know a number of
them don't have closed trash
cans.
Was there a reason behind that?
Like, where you push it open and
you put the trash in?
>> No, we just provided a whole
bunch of different options just
to see how people like it.
Some have lid tops, some are
open.
Right now, I believe there are
55-gallon drums with a post, so
the ones that are there now are
open.
>> Yeah.
>> We did provide some with cap
options as well.
>> Awesome.
Thank you.
>>
Mr. Dooley, did you have
something?
You're on mute, sir.
>> Mr. Dooley, you're muted.
>> You're on mute.
>> Sorry, guys.
>> There you go.
You're good.
I mean, I may be behind and not
understanding, but when you're
talking about community
gardens, what's the thought
behind that?
I mean, just what does that
mean?
>> It's typically where people
who don't have a big enough yard
to have a garden spot in the
neighborhood, they can rent or
secure a 10 by 10 or a 10 by 20
garden plot where they can go
out and grow their whatever
garden or cut flowers or
anything that they would like.
And it is open to the public
there.
>> That's exactly what I was
hoping you would say, Wade.
Thanks.
And two, even if we have to go
to a more budget-friendly
option now, there's options for
expansion later, right?
>> Absolutely.
>> Down the road, we can like
expand and lengthen the trail
or -- I mean, you know what I'm
saying there, right?
>> Yes, sir.
This could be done in basis.
>> Okay.
Excellent.
Thank you.
>> Awesome.
Mr. Schuck?
>> Just to provide a little bit
of context to Jerry and his
question, that is not new
functionality for this park.
For several years, at least
four or five years, there have
been community gardens at this
park already, so that is --
>> Oh, okay.
All right.
I need to go look at that park
that I haven't seen that for
several years.
I need to take a drive.
Thank you.
>> And really the idea with the
park is to make it accessible
to all of the residents that
live around it.
And number two was to dress up
this park for the residents that
we have that live around it.
There are some individuals that
rent those plots that take care
of their plots very well, and
some not as well.
So if it was to have, you know,
the borders, you know, the
granite trail, raised beds, ADA
accessibility, all those things
that would really enhance those
features that it has right now.
I'd like to throw in one more
comment, if I could.
>> Yeah, go ahead, Mr. Scheich.
>> You know, as somebody who
lives in that neighborhood,
there is a sidewalk that runs
down Bowling Green, and people
walk past the park, but there
is no concept of walking through
that park right now.
It's just kind of over off to
the side, and I think having
that loop trail is a very
understated huge addition to
that park and actually to bring
people into it.
I've walked by it 100 times,
and I've never thought to go
into it, because there's no
reason for me to be over there,
but having a trail to walk
through I think would be a big
addition, so.
>> Mr. Emmerich.
>> Yes, thank you.
The -- I guess two questions.
One -- well, one suggestion I
have, and then a question.
Suggestion is that there -- I
didn't see one, but if there's a
bench along in that loop trail,
that really helps old people
like me when you're tired.
>> There is, by the way.
>> There is, we do.
>> Oh, there is?
Okay, perfect, because, yeah.
In fact, I was going to suggest
we do those like every -- if we
have trails, maybe minimally,
once they're a half mile, maybe
one quarter mile, I don't know,
but they're great, especially
when you're trying to wobble
around at, you know, an older
age.
Second, what -- are we doing
standard metal benches here,
Gary, do you know?
>> We have two different types
of benches.
We have the benches that are at
Quaker Town, a little bit more
ornamental, and then we have a
general bench that's -- what's
the name of it, Drew?
>> Web coat.
It's green, it's got like a
rubber coating, almost looks
like a playground structure.
We have those in our parks as
well, so we would have to pick
which one we wanted to go with
at what level or what tier of
bench we want to go with, right?
Because I saw pictures there,
they had pictures of wood ones.
>> Generally not.
We're trying to get into a
systematic approach of our
equipment, so we use the same
trash can or the same bench in
certain areas, just from a
replacement standpoint, so we
have parts that can be
duplicated, and we're ordering
the same material, we're not
ordering, you know, 10 different
benches and trying to track them
down, so we're trying to be a
little bit different, but we're
trying to be a little bit
different, but we're trying to
be a little bit different, but
we're trying to be a little bit
different, but we're trying to
be a little bit different, but
we're trying to be a little bit
different, but we're trying to
be a little bit different, but
we're trying to be a little bit
different, but we're trying to
be a little bit different, but
we're trying to be a little bit
different, but we're trying to
be a little bit different, but
we're trying to be a little bit
different, but we're trying to
be a little bit different, but
we're trying to be a little bit
different, but we're trying to
be a little bit different, but
we're trying to be a little bit
different, but we're trying to
be a little bit different, but
we're trying to be a little bit
different, but we're trying to
be a little bit different, but
we're trying to be a little bit
different, but we're trying to
be a little bit different, but
we're trying to be a little bit
different, but we're trying to
be a little bit different, but
we're trying to be a little bit
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create small areas of active
recreation, in other words,
playgrounds in this case, but
also allow for, you know, more
flexible and passive recreation,
just sitting, meditating, maybe
picnicking with friends, you
know, watching your kids play,
and as we'll discuss in a little
bit more detail as well, in sort
of doing their schoolwork, what
have you. And then, of course,
developing and connecting up
those trail connections that
are -- and walking areas that
are so important. This is an
analysis graphic that we
prepared to, again, just
understand the context a little
bit more. This newly acquired
parcel, they're nestled in
really a fairly residential area.
We did show that 10-minute
walking radius as well, to some
of the surrounding areas. You've
got a little bit of some
apartments up in the northwest.
You've got a lot of single
family pretty much everywhere
else. We started out, before we
got into too much detail, we
started out with a diagram, and
part of the reason that was
important, as you can see, it's
so many existing trees, so we
actually got out and walked to
the site, figured out where
between the trees and the
topography would really be sort
of the ideal route for walking
so that we won't have to remove
hopefully even one single
existing tree. And you'll see
that we have three options,
sort of a 1A and a 1B, and then
an option two. The paths really
are very similar between them.
>> Mr. Black, I'm sorry to
interrupt you. Is there any way
to make the screen bigger? I
can barely see what's on the
screen.
>> Yeah. I don't -- I'm not
controlling the screen. I don't
know if you can see it.
>> You can actually do it under
view options on your screen. I
just blew it up on mine. If you
go up to the top and do view
options and do zoom ratio, you
can change what he sees, what
he's showing.
>> Sounds good.
>> I can zoom in, but it's
going to cut half of it off.
>> Yeah.
>> You can move it around at
that point, but that's the --
anyway, just sharing.
>> Yeah.
>> So, yeah, as far as the
diagram is concerned, and sort
of this option, this
alternative, takes advantage of
the existing barn. There's a
barn out there. It's one of the
few things existing out there
that's man-made, and we'll kind
of get into some detail on
that. So it's kind of more of a
centrally clustered concept
here. And one thing that we
anticipate may or may not
happen, but, you know, the
public -- the neighborhood,
especially the villages of
Cremel, are sensitive to
increased vehicular traffic in
their neighborhood, and so we
anticipate there may be a need
for this park to have its own
parking lot. Not -- maybe not
normally something always a
part of the neighborhood park,
but it may be needed in this
case. I'll turn the time over
to Michelle to go through in a
little more detail the concept
design.
>> Yeah. So this diagram --
this more fleshed-out concept
of the diagram that Jeremy was
just talking over, and I won't
go into too much detail on
this, but a few things worth
noting is that extension to
that future possible right
away, and you'll see that we
have kind of like a ghost-in
there, and we're hoping to
connect that into the park, so
you have that access there as
well. And then you'll also see
scattered throughout the park
these wildflower area pockets,
and this is just really bringing
some vibrancy into the park,
and then also just really
encompass this idea of being in
nature when you're walking
throughout the park. And then
as Jeremy mentioned, that this
concept, concept one, kind of
has a more centralized focus for
the playground using that
existing barn area, and so
we'll go into a little more
detail about some two different
options for how to repurpose
that existing barn, but as
you'll see in the next slide,
most of the forms of the
playground and these pathways,
they're really dictated by this
existing canopy coverage that we
want to try not to impact at
all because it's beautiful
post-oak, and that's like our
native trees here, and so you'll
see from this is that, you know,
that playground, it's going to
be fully shaded. You don't have
to really worry about kids
getting burned on playground
equipment or getting overheated
in the hot Texas sun, and then
on this diagram you'll also see
that those wildflower pocket
areas are placed within areas
where there isn't as much tree
canopy coverage, so it will
allow those flowers to grow and
the sunshine to come in in those
areas. So moving on to the next
one, and so this is looking more
at the playground area, and so
this would be one option of how
we could treat that, and so with
this you'll see some different
images of playground equipment
and we're really thinking more
of like a modern, a musical
element type of play equipment
for this particular option to
kind of bring in that musicality
of Denton and then also the
musicalness of being in the
wilderness and the forest, and
also with this option some of
the treatments within the barn
will reflect that more being
one in the forest and the
wilderness and the paving
pattern. On this option it'll
be kind of an enhanced paving
that shows like you're in the
treetops of the forest. Well,
and then this option would have
more of a linear approach to the
playground, to the pavilion,
rather than the previous option
which if we wanted to go back to
the previous slide. But if not,
yeah, so in here the barn would
be treated with these two types
of elevations going. So you
would come into the barn and
there would be an upper deck
that would ramp down or step
down into a more park pavilion
area where you could sit and
have picnics in the covered
shade of the barn. And then
also something really neat that
we're proposing is, as you saw
in that very first image on
that first slide of the barn,
it does have sides, but we're
thinking of cutting away the
side to create this little
window where we could put some
bench seating and that way if
kids are remote learning still
have access to their laptops
and be in the park as they do
homework, or the parents could
be working at the park as their
children play on the play
equipment and they'd still have
those sight lines into the
different playgrounds. And then
also something on this
playground, you will see that
it's very much the form is
dictated by those tree
canopy trees to like minimize
the amount of impact we have on
the property. So we really want
to utilize the topography of
this playground because it does
have a pretty steep slope
throughout this whole property
and those boulders are already
existing on the property. So
we really want to utilize that
natural element in this. And so
on this option, option two,
again, the only real difference
here is the treatment of the
barn with a more standard
linear approach into the
property. And then we have a
bench seating at the window cut
out and then have a more open
picnic area on this option.
And so I pass the mic back
over to Jeremy for this.
>> So as you've heard us
mention this existing barn and
we've just shown a few images
here of some potential
treatments, how that can be
done or how it has been done in
the past. You know, it's
not necessarily that this is a
historically significant barn,
but it's just that it is already
in one of the larger open
areas. And so just to minimize
the amount of construction and
trucks and heavy equipment that
are having to go through there
and just, you know, generally
the idea of recycling or
repurposing something that is
in relatively decent shape. We
did have a structural engineer
take a look and say that, you
know, this can continue to be
used. So you've got just some
quick images here that we did,
some quick renderings of, you
know, some potential treatments
to the barn. Again, as Michelle
mentioned, cutting away those
windows, maybe adding a little
bit of wood accents, creating a
shed roof off to one side so
there is some more open air
pavilion type seating. And then
onto the next slide, you can
see just a view into it from the
other side. Just, it's a pretty
basic barn, but, you know,
large open area, plenty, you
know, it's plenty big, I think,
for anything that might happen
out there as far as seating and
dining. What you'll see there
is the knee brace, it's called.
That was really the only
recommendation that the
structural engineer gave as far
as shoring this thing up a
little bit more.
Alternative two, then, is an
alternative that takes away the
existing barn in the event that
it was not a desired thing to
do, and something new was
desired. And so that, it does
have a new pavilion, however,
which moves over a little
closer to that neighborhood
connection over to Villages of
Carmel, and the potential new
sidewalk there along Postoke.
Then, because of the large area
left over by the existing barn,
we would then just kind of shift
over and use that for a
relatively large playground.
And if you want to jump to the
next slide, Michelle can talk in
a little bit more detail about
that, or the next slide.
Michelle, would you like to
jump to the next slide?
Two slides away.
>> Yeah.
So this is a closer look at that
new playground area for this
option, and so what you will see
is that because we're not using
that existing barn, that does
give us a larger area to have a
larger playground for this
option without impacting the
trees, and so we'll actually be
able to get, like, a separation
area for a five-year-old and a
school-aged playground while
still maintaining accessibility
and sight lines for supervisors
who are out there watching
children, and then we would have
a more prefabricated pavilion on
this option within an enhanced
paved picnic area, so you could
either be in the shade and relax
or be out in more of a sunshine,
although it is still very
heavily shaded with the trees
and be out there, and then also
there's a secondary play option
on this one where it would be
utilizing those boulders, again,
like a climbing playground
equipment, so children could
climb on them, you know, have
fun with it, and that way they
could use their imagination, and
then also with that, if you see
up on the north to the
playground, this amphitheater,
we're kind of proposing this,
again, if you have your children
are doing school from home, they
could do their playtime, give
stories, you could read a book
out there to your children just
to have an outdoor classroom,
you know, the space is really
flexible to do all that, and
then with this option, we're
also proposing some more nature
type of play equipment to bring
in the element of nature play
and just really, again, just
bring in this idea of you're in
the forest, you're in the woods,
and you just get to bring that
in.
>> And, of course, with the sort
of prefabricated pavilion, that
is a part of this option, and
there's plenty of, you know,
options out there for this. I'm
sure you've all seen plenty, you
know, you have your more
standard ones, but there are
some also kind of fun and funky
ones that can be incorporated as
well, you know, as the budget
dictates, of course, but one
thing I will note is that most
likely any new prefabricated
pavilion that occurred out here
would probably be smaller than
that existing barn, and so
that's one of the things, again,
why we really looked at that
closely as an option, just
because there's already a large
existing structure out there.
So that concludes the
discussion on the concept
design. Just a quick, I guess,
note about, you know, our
meeting on Thursday, and I think
that the parks staff will agree
that there was a lot of good
feedback, mostly positive. We
didn't really hear anything
negative or that, you know, we
weren't really focusing on the
right things. I don't know if
Gary or Chris, you guys want to
speak to that at all.
>> Yeah, I mean, as mentioned,
Jeremy touched on, we did
receive good feedback. There
were some concerns that we
addressed regarding trees, are
any trees going to be taken
down? The answer is no. They're
not the way that they proposed
at this time. They're trying to
keep everything around and build
around it. As far as feedback
as stated at the beginning, we
are working on a survey to
gather those results, and we
will also get that survey out to
the public, to the people that
did attend, as well as the
community around there. We do
have the local HOAs that we
connected with that they will be
able to send that out via email
and hopefully we could get more
responses there, and we will
also get that survey out to you
guys as well.
>> One quick other note. One
concern, and I think a common
concern that we have is that
when you're designing a space
like this that is heavily wooded
is safety, and so we have been
prepared to look at that. Drew,
that's one of Drew's bullet
points that he is good about
reminding us, is, you know,
designing safety into it
through environmental means.
You know, it may mean limbing up
some of the trees, but we did
try to provide open view
corridors. You know, the
pavilions won't -- while the
existing barn has solid walls,
we would try to open that up as
much as possible, and then, of
course, lighting would be a
factor here as well, just to
make sure that whether it's
parents or security or police
presence can at least come
around the perimeter, drive by,
what have you, and be able to
build a safe space outside.
That is something that will
continue to be incorporated.
>> All right. Does anyone have
any questions? Miss Punch?
>> Okay. Thank you for
addressing my first question,
which was safety. And the
second one, you said that you
-- did I hear correctly you do
not know which model the
community is leaning toward?
>> No. They -- in the -- in the
meeting, there really was no
expressed opinion, I would say,
about one versus the other, and
we have yet -- our survey goes
out a little bit later this
week, and then we'll be able to
hear back.
>> Okay. Thank you so much.
>> Does that -- does that sound
correct, Drew and Chris?
>> Yes, that's correct. I think
they liked everything, so that
survey will really be able to
tell, you know, which option
they liked and then maybe which
blend they liked to come up with
the final option.
>> Thank you. Mr. Schiff?
>> Yeah, I had a question about
the topography. Looking at some
of those slides, the topography
had terrain lines. I noticed
a number of terrain lines, but I
didn't have a scale for what --
how many vertical feet is
represented in each terrain
line. What is the difference
between low and high on that
land?
>> Jeremy, can you say off-hand?
I think it's --
>> Are you -- would you like to
know the overall grade change
from top to bottom?
>> Either way. I mean, I can
figure that out. How much does
one of those topography lines
equal?
>> Yeah, these are one-foot
contours.
>> Okay. I was thinking those
were -- okay, I was picturing
five feet or something. I
thought we were climbing pretty
rapidly.
>> No, I mean, it is steep.
It's --
>> 25, 30 feet?
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Your high point
there, kind of right in the
middle left and then down, yeah,
about 30 feet.
>> I'm used to my backpacking
maps.
If you walk pretty much where
he depicts where the trail is,
if you walk it, it's a really
nice gradual slope down, kind
of evens out and then comes
back up, and really it will all
be designed with all the ADA
compliance features.
>> Okay. We had another park
that was brought to us that had
a little more extreme terrain,
and I was wondering if we were
getting another one like that.
>> Any other questions? Mr.
Emrick?
>> Thank you. Appreciate that.
I -- actually, my wife and I
used to live down this
neighborhood, and was worried
when villages are caramel, and
was actually in the HOA that we
worked to get that swimming pool
we got down there. So the
history maker, I guess, was the
builder. So when I found about
this, I contacted the HOA there
and let them know, and they
said they were going to be
meeting that you were going to
have. So I was very positive
that you were having it.
Anyway, I had some questions.
First question is, there is
Pecan Elementary is just to the
south and east of this, if I'm
not correct. I don't know if
I'm correct.
>> That sounds right.
>> Yeah. And how far is that
from, say, the proposed
playground that you're putting
up here on your plan?
>> I believe it's within the
10-minute walk.
>> Within 10-minute walk?
>> Within a half mile, yes.
>> Okay. So one of the questions
I have is, have we considered
doing a joint usage with the
existing playground they have
there, Pecan Creek Elementary?
>> Maybe it's just right outside
the 10-minute walk. We haven't
contacted them just due to the
connectability of this park and
the elementary school. If you
have ever driven in this area,
I know you did living in this
area, Swisher Road is very
narrow. Right now, the mobility
plan shows for the main
thoroughfare to go right next to
the park. We did ask capital
projects and engineering if it
really was going to go there,
and really they're in the middle
of their updated master plan,
they couldn't tell us a definite
yes or no, just that it is on
the mobility plan at this time.
It could go there or it could
move. We just couldn't get a
definite answer. That was one of
the major questions that we got
last Thursday night, is Posto
going to be built behind my
homes? I wish we could answer
that question, and I don't even
believe our mobility staff can
answer that question at this
time.
>> Okay. Just the thought, I
like to obviously utilize
existing resources for the kids,
but also if you do a linear
trail thing through there from
the snow tree.
>> We would like to do a linear
trail in the future Posto
driveway because the city already
owns that. Maybe just do a soft
surface trail for now. People
were really already using it
because it's open property that
the city owns. People are already
using it, so we can do a soft
surface trail now where we put a
minimal amount of money into
that trail if it does get taken
out in the future.
>> Right. In my mind, if it was
possible to get a, number one,
get access to this park
property from the elementary
school, you know, safe access,
and they have very -- obviously
it's an elementary school, so
they have playground for younger
kids, and then maybe just kind
of utilize, you know, maybe
look for older, you know, toy
areas or -- I'm trying to say
playground areas that appeal to
older age groups like middle
class kids, you know, middle
school kids, that sort of thing,
maybe even older teenage -- or
older kids, pre-high school,
because by the time they go to
high school, they're not going
to be at the playground, trust
me. I had eight kids, so, you
know, speaking from experience.
So that was one, and you did
answer my one question on ADA
for the barn. I assume that's
going to be in there, too.
>> Yes.
>> And one of the things I would
suggest to barn is, you know,
they did a barn down in green
town, and now it's a big
dancing hall, and it brings in a
lot of people, and that was just
an idea of maybe taking a look
at that from a -- you know, they
do it -- they have big dances
there, you know, down in the
fire mound, but maybe that would
be kind of a cool place here for
dancing, besides, you know, the
senior retirement, I'm talking
about the young people, you
know, in the senior retirement
places, but to give options for
dancing for younger folks.
Just a thought.
>> A little footloose.
>> Well, yeah, there you go.
Yeah, do the footloose part.
I can see it now.
Thank you.
>> Mr. Ferry, I believe you had
a question.
>> Yes, thank you.
So I know you said you're going
to send out that survey to get
feedback from the community, and
I know that you're asking for
our feedback.
I would just like to put it out
there that I kind of really
enjoy the first option in the
sense of like repurposing what's
already existing, right, instead
of having to take something down
and then create something new,
which would also increase the
budget.
>> That was the biggest reason
why we wanted that structural
engineer to look at the barn.
We wanted to make it kind of
a park.
How fun to just have that
continue to be a part of its own
story and let that be something
that becomes an element that
also that Ms. Davis had said,
you know, there will be options
to sit in an open window aspect
with that second tier, all of
its ADA.
We're talking about ramps.
So it's inclusive.
It also kind of harkens to its
own roots, right?
And I think that it also gave
that element of play that Ms.
Davis agreed with is like the
rocks, the natural elements that
kids can play on.
You know, you mentioned that in
both options, and I think that
there's -- that's a really cool
highlight.
And then also bringing in that
whole music to modern elements
that I think would be fun in
both play elements.
There's still a lot of play area
and tons of shade.
You know, it's kind of like a
really cool win-win for how much
already exists in a park that I
have and, you know, try and come
in under budget or, you know,
have less of an expense.
And I think that it could be
incredible.
And I really appreciated this
presentation and how prepared it
was and how I think the first
option would be a really cool
way of incorporating, like I
said, what exists and also
keeping us in a framework of
buying instead of money.
>> One thing that we noticed
after we're talking through this
is we're talking about
integrating musical elements
into the park, you know, kind of
focus on Denton's roots.
But if you look at this, this
also looks like a guitar or a
violin here upside down.
>> I was going to ask if that
was done on purpose.
>> I swear I thought the same
thing.
>> Because I immediately saw it.
Yeah.
>> It wasn't.
That was the -- you know, that
was sort of the opening left to
us in the tree canopy.
And so --
>> Yeah, I just love all the
elements just kind of already
being there.
Right?
Like literally.
Like that bones of a structure.
I'm glad that you guys got an
engineer and that they can be
easily made safe and that safety
is also being continually spoken
about.
I think that's a really great
option and will help with cost.
My opinion.
>> And the way the rendering
shows right now, the property
was completely surveyed.
I know you saw the topo on
there.
And then also all the trees were
so surveyed.
So when ValleyQuest went in and
did really the initial design,
they could make sure that every
-- you know, the trail could
weave in and out of all the
existing trees.
>> Can I jump in behind George?
Yeah.
While that barn may not be
historically significant in a
-- technically speaking, it
kind of sort of is.
I mean, I think it's a great
thing to incorporate what's
already there and keep the
history and the culture there.
I think it's a very cool thing
if you can keep that and
utilize that barn.
I think that's great.
>> Yeah, I think it is.
Yeah.
And, you know, it's maybe only
10 -- I think it was only 10
or 15 years old, which is part
of the reason why we can keep
it, which, you know, frankly
is good.
But you're right.
It's more of a cultural piece
than a historical piece, if
you will.
>> Yes, absolutely.
Yes.
And the boulders, just to add,
were -- I think they were
brought over from the
neighboring property when the
homes were built.
And that's the boulder garden
for Alana.
>> There are some really big,
cool boulders out there.
I mean, some are, you know,
six feet in diameter.
>> The developer donated lots
of big boulders.
>> Donated.
>> Donated, right?
>> Yeah.
>> Which, you know, in the
construction room when they're
digging foundations, they have
to remove those and they have
to get those out.
And I'm sure at the time, they
owned -- the developer owned
that property.
And so that was just a good
space to put them and store
them.
And, you know, when we walked
the property right after we
purchased them, you know, I
called Gary and said, hey, we
got about $8,000 worth of
boulders that someone gave to
us.
So it was a good find for once.
So.
>> Does anyone else have any
questions?
I know Brooke had a question,
but she may have left for a
moment.
Hi.
>> No, I was just going to ask
about potential to merge both
of the ideas because I love the
natural playground, but I also
kind of -- I like the barn
staying too, so I just wondered
if that was even a possibility.
>> Yes, and that's what the
survey would be good for, for
us to be able to show these
different options and then for,
you know, for the public to be
able to tell us what do you
like, what do you not like,
what would you like to see.
It's really just -- it's almost
like shopping, you know, for a
home or a car or, you know,
something expensive, which a
park is expensive, to where you
get to really, okay, which,
you know, feature do I like the
most?
Which oven do I want?
Which countertop do I want?
What kind of floors do I want?
What color do I want?
You know, all those good things
and that's, you know, that's
what we've really tried to do
with all these public meetings
with that, so.
>> You guys are doing great.
Thank you.
>> I have a couple of questions.
First of all, I was just
wondering what the barn's story
is.
Was it, like, a farm?
Do we know who lived there?
Do we have any other artifacts?
>> We can look back and find
out, like, who lived there.
Like Jeremy said, the barn
isn't very old.
It's really -- if it dated back,
it would probably be only about
15 years old.
You can really tell by the
condition that the wood is in
and really the grade of the
metal to be able to tell how
old it is.
We did last year, right before
the pandemic, remove the
foundation and what was left of
an older home that was there.
It was really small.
I wouldn't think it was more
than, I don't know, Gary, you
think 6 to 800 square feet.
And the only thing left was
some old brick piers, like
cinder block piers, and a
foundation that was made out of
plywood, like 2 by 6s.
So there just wasn't much left
there.
But it wasn't -- the foundation
wasn't terribly old.
It may have dated 20 years ago.
So -- but it was -- you could
tell it was just like a horse
or, you know, livestock barn.
>> The reason I bring that up
is if we know a little bit of
the story and move forward with
the barn, I think it would be
really cool to have a plaque or
some kind of informational
educational thing to just talk
about in the future that will
go by really fast, as we all
know.
Time flies.
Just an idea.
>> Great idea.
Thank you.
>> Is my internet working?
I'm getting a thing saying I'm
unstable.
>> You froze just for a second,
but you came back.
>> Okay.
And my last question is do you
know what type of rock those
boulders are?
Just curious.
>> Sandstone.
>> Okay.
Does anyone else have any
questions regarding this
discussion?
Okay.
Well, we should move to the next
item, which is consider
recommending approval of an
ordinance of the city of
Denton adopting standards of
care for recreational care
programs administered by
Denton's park and recreation
department pursuant to Texas
human resources code section
42041B in providing an
effective item.
And we will be voting on this
item.
So --
>> Hi.
Thank you.
Caroline Seward, program area
manager, Denton parks
recreation.
Each year we bring our
standards of care for park
board and council to approve.
The standards of care are the
minimum guidelines in which
we will operate our
recreational care programs.
So summer camps and after
school care.
We look at them each year for
updates.
The main update this year is
we are adding a new camp at
clear creek heritage center.
So that is added to our
standards of care.
And then we have updated our
parent manual to outline our
COVID procedures and policies.
And I am happy to answer any
questions on our standards of
care.
>> Can you kind of tell what
does that mean, standards of
care?
What does that mean?
>> It is the minimum
requirements by law to operate
a child recreational care
program.
So we are not a licensed
child care facility.
Recreational programs are
exempt.
So it outlines our health and
safety procedures for our
recreational care programs.
>> Mr. Emmerich, I was going
to jump in there.
The way that we get the
exemption from being licensed
is having this ordinance and
having city council adopt it
each year.
So that is why we have to go to
council each year.
>> Understood that.
But I am curious what elements
are in that?
I mean, for lack of a better
term, for like, you know,
keeping the custom of fighting
though, you know, I am just
making fun of it.
But in general, what does that
mean?
Tell me what that means.
>> No, it is how we inspect the
camps, our enrollment, how we
report child abuse if we
suspect it, the supervision
requirements for the full-time
staff and the part-time staff
as well as discipline,
programming, how we transport
the children, and then our
health and safety protocols
like fire drills and that sort
of thing.
>> Okay.
So you do it the same way like
a school would if they were going
on a field trip, I think, where
you have to have protocols in
place to make sure the kids are
safe?
>> Correct.
>> Okay.
I better understand it now.
Thank you.
>> Mr. Schuch?
>> Yes.
Can you summarize the changes
over previous iterations of this
ordinance?
I think that might be helpful if
you could point out what
substantive differences there
are other than dates.
>> Really the main change is
adding the new location, Clear
Creek Natural Heritage Center.
Everything else is just
grammatical changes, commas here,
you know, fixing a misspelled
word.
But the only major addition is
including that facility.
>> That and the COVID.
>> Yes, the COVID protocols
aren't actually part of the
standards of care, but we do
include them in our parents'
manuals last year.
We came before y'all in March
right as COVID was happening,
and both this board and city
council asked for the COVID
protocols, so we've included
them in our parent manual, but
they're not actually part of the
standard of care.
>> Thank you.
>> Anybody else have any
questions?
I have a question.
I know in the schools that my
children go to, they get their
temperature taken every day now
and then, will you be doing
that?
I didn't see it in the illness
section.
>> Yes, in our parent manual,
part of our check-in procedures
is we will keep the parents out
of the room where the kids are,
but they'll check in at a desk,
do a temperature screening, make
sure they don't have any
symptoms before being allowed
into the program, and that's
true for all of our recreation
facilities.
You have to have your temperature
checked.
>> And then how will hand
sanitizers and hand washing go
throughout the day to make sure
that they are washing their
hands?
Because you know they like to
eat and all that.
>> No, in between activities, we
have scheduled time for them to
go in and wash their hands, and
then we'll have hand sanitizer
available in those times that
there aren't restroom facilities
available.
If they're out in the park and
they're in the playground, we'll
do hand sanitizer in those
instances.
>> And then I have one more
question about out at Clear
Creek.
As a lot of you already know,
there are a lot of, like, the
water moccasins and cotton
mouths, snakes.
What will be the procedures for
learning about snakes and
knowing what to do around a
snake?
How do you address that with
the kids and what do you do if
something happens?
>> All of our camp counselors
are trained in first aid and
CPR, so they have minimal
training when it comes to
responding to, you know, snake
bites as laid out by the American
Red Cross.
You see my daughter in the
background.
And then, you know, we'll have
emergency --
>> He doesn't like snakes
either.
>> No, we don't.
>> No, we just got it back in
town, and she hasn't seen me
yet, so she's anxious to get in
here.
But -- so we'll have, you know,
emergency phones available.
And then one of the first things
we do at camp is just lay out
the procedures and the safety
guidelines.
So that will be part of that
initial orientation on the first
day of camp.
>> Thank you.
Any other questions?
>> Oh, if I could throw something
in.
Am I muted?
Okay.
I spend a lot of time at Clear
Creek, and when we're out there,
we kind of sort of know where to
be careful and where not.
I mean, we take it very -- all
the master naturalists out there,
we take it very, very seriously
all the danger spots.
And don't go here.
Be careful when you go here.
Do this, do this.
And, yeah, we're all over that
out there.
So, I mean, they're our kids,
too.
So it's relaxed.
>> We are partnering with the
master naturalists and gardeners
to come out and help do some of
our educational programs.
So we'll have that.
>> Yeah, we're going to be
talking now about interpretive
hiking and who's going to do it
and who's going to lead the
hikes and where to go and
cleaning everything up.
So, yeah, it's a very serious
topic out there.
So no worries, Elena.
We got you.
>> I'm not worried.
Education is good.
Any other questions?
I know Carolyn needs to get to
her baby.
All right.
Then do we have a motion to
approve this ordinance?
>> Yeah, I make a motion that
we approve.
>> I'll second.
>> Is there any discussion
for this motion?
All in favor, say aye.
>> Aye.
>> Any opposed?
Okay.
The ayes have it.
>> Thank you.
>> Thank you, Carolyn.
Okay.
Let's move on to receive a
report and hold discussion and
give staff input regarding the
naming applications for parks
and trails as submitted by
residents, local developers in
the parks and recreation
department.
>> Can you all hear me?
Yep.
Okay.
Sorry.
Technology, I'm not the very
best in.
So Eddie Valdez, management
analyst for the parks and
recreation department and
public works department.
On April 6, staff presented the
naming procedures as a work
session for city council and
the purpose of the city council
meeting for that day was to
provide a quick overview of the
procedures and guidelines
outlined in the naming policy
and also to seek city council's
direction for next steps.
So if you go -- if you mind if
you go to the next slide.
So staff gave this exact visual
to city council.
As you can see, this is a quick
overview of the naming
procedures from start to
finish.
This includes the entire
milestone with the two options
that is written in the naming
policy as it is today.
So what I gave is the -- our
staff gave was starting with
step number one.
The groups or individuals, they
submit the application and then
it goes to step number two.
We receive it and the city
manager will request a date for
city council's review.
Now we're in option number
three and this is where it
breaks out to option one or
option two.
But I do want to note that the
inclusion was not part of the
naming policy on the last
parkour meeting.
You all decided that a public
meeting should be provided so
we can gather input or even
community meeting from the
community as well.
So in a nutshell, the outcome
of this is city council decided
to do option number two.
But there's something in
addition to that, instead of
holding a -- or going for an
ad hoc committee that we were
providing a recommendation,
they actually trust the parks
and recreation -- I'm sorry,
the parks, recreation and
beautification board to be the
replacement for the ad hoc
committee.
So you are all going to be now
the new ad hoc committee, as
not as an ad hoc committee, but
they trusted your feedback
because all the applications
are from -- or related to
basically parks and
recreation.
So congratulations.
You've been upgraded or you've
been promoted, park board
members.
So -- well, so you're probably
going to ask how will this work
since they chose number two.
So the idea again with the ad
hoc committee is that they
would prepare a recommendation
for city council for their
consideration.
Give me a second.
I had to move this.
Little piece of window here.
And eventually with those
recommendations, city council
will basically review your
recommendation and will
basically make a final
decision.
But at the same time, city
council did recommend that
you move forward with your
feedback, which is the
inclusion, having a public
forum or a community meeting.
So what staff would do is
probably -- we're targeting
around May, before Memorial
Day, hopefully, where staff
will basically market the
community meeting for around
May, and then we can provide
the feedback to you.
Or would park board like to be
part of the community meeting.
So we kind of need your
feedback in that realm.
And then we are probably
planning on doing possibly one
community meeting, maybe
possibly two, or maybe one
community meeting and a public
forum.
So we're open for discussion.
It's not something that you're
all voting on.
It's just feedback and just
next steps.
>> Thank you.
Thank you very much.
>> Thank you.
Thank you.
All right.
See y'all.