WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.920 Oh, I think I think Miss Peele gave the countdown. Okay, I couldn't hear 00:00:03.920 --> 00:00:11.280 All right. Um, so I want to call to order that i'm charlotte bradshaw vice chair of the port of ethics and 00:00:11.280 --> 00:00:17.060 The meeting today is date is february 25th of 2021 00:00:17.060 --> 00:00:20.480 We are starting the meeting at 305 pm 00:00:20.480 --> 00:00:24.340 And the first item for consideration 00:00:24.340 --> 00:00:29.840 Madison, do you want to take role as to who's here? Do you want me to go into the first item? 00:00:30.800 --> 00:00:34.720 You can just go into the first item with the I think we we're good on the roll. Okay 00:00:34.720 --> 00:00:37.700 All right. The first item for consideration 00:00:37.700 --> 00:00:40.980 Uh board of ethics 21 - 007 00:00:40.980 --> 00:00:47.220 And this is to consider the approval of the minutes for january 28th of 2021 00:00:47.220 --> 00:00:54.500 I'd like to move to approve the minutes for january 28th 00:00:59.040 --> 00:01:01.440 Do we have a second I second 00:01:01.440 --> 00:01:05.520 Thank you 00:01:05.520 --> 00:01:12.800 All right, so the minutes for january 28 the 2021 are 00:01:12.800 --> 00:01:15.200 approved in their 00:01:15.200 --> 00:01:18.560 Uh form as they are presented at this meeting 00:01:18.560 --> 00:01:24.080 Do we need to take a roll call vote trey on this right right if if we're gonna do it by vote 00:01:24.080 --> 00:01:27.200 We've got to do it by roll call on a zoom thing. Sorry 00:01:28.480 --> 00:01:30.820 Sure, I knew roll call was in there somewhere 00:01:30.820 --> 00:01:37.460 Uh the joys of doing this virtually exactly exactly 00:01:37.460 --> 00:01:40.240 um 00:01:40.240 --> 00:01:42.320 All right, i'm trying to see who's up here so 00:01:42.320 --> 00:01:45.920 I'm at uh 00:01:45.920 --> 00:01:51.600 So do you want me to just why don't y'all just say your name and then if you approve them, is that okay trey? 00:01:51.600 --> 00:01:56.320 Well, what you can do is just just in the order that they appear on your screen 00:01:56.400 --> 00:01:59.440 Just go one at a time through them and it'll work that way 00:01:59.440 --> 00:02:02.000 Because see i'm not seeing everyone 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:04.000 I see madison. Oh 00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:06.640 Is it okay trey if I call them? 00:02:06.640 --> 00:02:09.840 Just that's okay 00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:13.520 Ron with a phone, but that's it. I don't see everyone else 00:02:13.520 --> 00:02:17.760 Does that work for you charlotte if I just call you bet? Okay 00:02:17.760 --> 00:02:20.080 um 00:02:20.080 --> 00:02:21.200 well 00:02:21.200 --> 00:02:22.480 charlotte 00:02:22.480 --> 00:02:23.760 uh-huh 00:02:23.760 --> 00:02:28.000 Do you approve? I do. Okay, uh annetta. Yes 00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:31.360 Uh patricia. Yes 00:02:31.360 --> 00:02:32.960 deborah 00:02:32.960 --> 00:02:33.840 Yes 00:02:33.840 --> 00:02:35.120 don 00:02:35.120 --> 00:02:36.400 Yes 00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:38.400 bob 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:41.680 You're on mute bob 00:02:41.680 --> 00:02:52.000 Oh, you're still on mute 00:02:53.760 --> 00:02:55.760 Okay 00:03:23.760 --> 00:03:25.760 Okay 00:03:25.760 --> 00:03:40.880 Somebody needs to let me in ron. Are you trying to join via video? Yes 00:03:40.880 --> 00:03:52.240 Can you hear me there we go bob, oh finally love technology 00:03:53.440 --> 00:03:56.240 And I believe i'm an alternate so I don't vote 00:03:56.240 --> 00:04:01.920 Is that correct 00:04:01.920 --> 00:04:06.240 Sorry. Oh, yeah, we're we're voting on approval of last week's uh last month's minutes 00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:11.120 But as an alternate, I do not vote correct. No, you can vote because um, 00:04:11.120 --> 00:04:16.400 You're a regular member for this meeting. Oh, okay. All right then approve 00:04:16.400 --> 00:04:18.720 All right 00:04:18.720 --> 00:04:21.680 Um ron they're working to get you in via video 00:04:22.240 --> 00:04:24.240 Uh, but do you approve the minutes? 00:04:24.240 --> 00:04:26.480 approved 00:04:26.480 --> 00:04:28.480 All right 00:04:28.480 --> 00:04:31.600 So then I I believe the motion passes 00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:34.720 All right, miss brashaw you can now 00:04:34.720 --> 00:04:38.800 Now go to the next one 00:04:38.800 --> 00:04:40.000 right 00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:45.680 Yeah, you can go ahead and claim it or mark it approved now officially and then we'll move on right? 00:04:45.680 --> 00:04:47.760 That's what I was just going to do. So the 00:04:48.880 --> 00:04:56.800 After a vote of the members present today to approve the minutes of january 28 2021 those minutes in their current form 00:04:56.800 --> 00:04:58.800 That was presented are approved 00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:03.540 The next item on our agenda is board of ethics 21-008 00:05:03.540 --> 00:05:14.000 And it states receive a report hold a discussion and give staff direction regarding proposed ethics complaint process 00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:16.080 flow charts 00:05:17.520 --> 00:05:19.520 All right, and um, so this is 00:05:19.520 --> 00:05:23.440 Basically a continuation of our discussion last month. I had presented 00:05:23.440 --> 00:05:28.640 These two flow charts that kind of ran through the ethics complaint process 00:05:28.640 --> 00:05:36.560 Uh one which kind of was about the preliminary assessment piece and then the second which moved into if there was actually a complaint 00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:38.560 um 00:05:38.560 --> 00:05:43.920 The board made some suggested changes and I tried to incorporate those into what's presented before you today 00:05:43.920 --> 00:05:46.240 um 00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:47.440 so 00:05:47.440 --> 00:05:53.040 The flow charts are in your backup if y'all have on now, I think if it's okay with you 00:05:53.040 --> 00:05:55.760 um vice madam vice chair 00:05:55.760 --> 00:05:59.600 I'll just take any any additional, um suggested changes 00:05:59.600 --> 00:06:01.440 and 00:06:01.440 --> 00:06:07.760 I'll just if you have those just tell me and i'll write them down and then we'll go back through to see if we need to um 00:06:07.760 --> 00:06:10.640 Basically to get consensus on changing them 00:06:10.640 --> 00:06:14.560 All right 00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:18.800 Okay. Um, i'm printing mine right now. I've seen them on the um 00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:22.320 Screen but it's a little easier to see in person 00:06:22.320 --> 00:06:31.440 Or printed. Sorry. All right. So opening this up for discussion and madison is asking if anybody has any suggested changes 00:06:31.440 --> 00:06:34.320 to the flow chart and 00:06:34.320 --> 00:06:36.640 Thank you for doing this 00:06:36.640 --> 00:06:42.800 I'm a very visual person. This is extremely helpful and I know it took a lot of work 00:06:43.600 --> 00:06:44.560 um 00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:52.260 So i'll open it up to everyone present. Does anyone have any suggestions for her for her request or modifications? 00:06:52.260 --> 00:06:56.080 I just 00:06:56.080 --> 00:07:03.600 Really like how you incorporate our comments from last time and it for me as a visual person it flows much more easily 00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:06.480 One step to the next. Thank you 00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:10.240 Agreed 00:07:13.680 --> 00:07:21.700 Does anybody have any discussion about the flow chart or any other suggestions or changes whatsoever? 00:07:21.700 --> 00:07:26.480 At dawn part, right? Yes, sir 00:07:26.480 --> 00:07:33.760 I don't know if i'm a visual person or or what but I find the flow chart 00:07:33.760 --> 00:07:36.480 Or a little bit confusing 00:07:36.480 --> 00:07:40.800 And i've gone through these processes on many occasions already 00:07:42.080 --> 00:07:46.000 And then when I take the flow chart and I put it with our next agenda 00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:48.880 Will we go through the steps that they have? 00:07:48.880 --> 00:07:50.800 I think 00:07:50.800 --> 00:07:55.920 There needs to I guess I need to understand how they're going to combine the two together 00:07:55.920 --> 00:08:00.720 Because it takes the two together to really understand what we're even talking about 00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:07.360 And I might make a suggestion also 00:08:09.440 --> 00:08:15.360 At the very beginning the city of denton did a process and ethics complaint 101 00:08:15.360 --> 00:08:20.400 21 steps on filing this and to me 00:08:20.400 --> 00:08:23.440 That makes more sense 00:08:23.440 --> 00:08:26.320 Especially if you put it with the flow chart 00:08:26.320 --> 00:08:32.880 Uh on if a layperson comes in how a layperson would follow this process through 00:08:32.880 --> 00:08:38.720 Uh, but I think just the flow chart by itself is is pretty confusing 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:41.600 my comment 00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:46.720 And we do appreciate the work because I know it took a lot of hard work to do it 00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:50.560 And so don are you um 00:08:50.560 --> 00:08:57.920 So you're saying it's it's harder to reconcile that flow chart with what's in writing, correct? 00:08:57.920 --> 00:09:00.800 For those to jive together 00:09:00.800 --> 00:09:02.880 Yes, but I think it it 00:09:02.880 --> 00:09:05.200 It takes both together 00:09:05.520 --> 00:09:10.960 To kind of make sense at all and even when you look across the top of it where you're talking about 00:09:10.960 --> 00:09:14.080 What the complainant is supposed to do the city auditor? 00:09:14.080 --> 00:09:21.200 What the board would do or the board panel and then the board of ethics and you come back and you get the next page 00:09:21.200 --> 00:09:24.720 You get the respondent the board of ethics and the complainant 00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:32.560 But when you add the the next two pages to it which gives us six steps 00:09:34.080 --> 00:09:35.680 It's clear 00:09:35.680 --> 00:09:39.520 But to me, it's still not as clear as what we've what we've had 00:09:39.520 --> 00:09:46.800 On our process of ethics complaint 101 that I thought was given to everyone that filed a complaint before 00:09:46.800 --> 00:09:52.400 And that's 21 steps, but it's uh, each step is outlined and it's 00:09:52.400 --> 00:09:55.040 It makes sense 00:09:55.040 --> 00:09:57.440 uh 00:09:57.760 --> 00:10:05.040 Uh, just just a thought. I don't know if anyone else has looked at this process on ethics complaint 101, but it's uh, 00:10:05.040 --> 00:10:08.000 It's really quite good 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:10.560 And I thought about it when we had our last meeting 00:10:10.560 --> 00:10:17.680 But I went through my paperwork and dug through and couldn't find it and finally found it about two days ago 00:10:17.680 --> 00:10:22.400 All right 00:10:22.400 --> 00:10:25.120 This is bob let me add a 00:10:25.840 --> 00:10:27.840 comment after don's 00:10:27.840 --> 00:10:35.680 One of the one of the things that I just have never figured out is on page nine the first page 00:10:35.680 --> 00:10:39.920 uh, and the top box for the board 00:10:39.920 --> 00:10:42.560 Complaint hearing process 00:10:42.560 --> 00:10:46.400 And that seems to be a do loop that you don't get out of 00:10:46.400 --> 00:10:49.280 But i'm assuming that 00:10:49.280 --> 00:10:51.520 The complaint process is then actually 00:10:51.520 --> 00:10:54.960 Page 10, is that correct? 00:10:55.280 --> 00:10:56.640 correct 00:10:56.640 --> 00:10:57.920 All right 00:10:57.920 --> 00:10:59.600 Okay, so 00:10:59.600 --> 00:11:04.320 I would suggest that that you say something in like in a parenz on that box 00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:07.600 See see page 10 or something like that 00:11:07.600 --> 00:11:10.880 We can certainly add something like that 00:11:10.880 --> 00:11:17.120 Just as a reference. That's the intention is if you get to that step you would go to the next flowchart. Basically, right? 00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:22.080 I assumed that but I wasn't sure that was the case. I I used to be 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:28.320 An applications programmer when I got out of the army many many years ago and that was with kobalt 00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:31.600 So i'm i'm dating myself. I know that but 00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:38.800 flow charts were a very integral part of uh programming back then and 00:11:38.800 --> 00:11:40.720 and now 00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:42.080 um 00:11:42.080 --> 00:11:45.360 I like the idea of of this flow chart 00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:47.760 but 00:11:47.760 --> 00:11:54.160 I think I and and we are in a little different position than most people who would look at it because we're 00:11:54.160 --> 00:11:56.560 familiar with the 00:11:56.560 --> 00:11:58.320 ordinance 00:11:58.320 --> 00:12:00.960 citations that these things refer to 00:12:00.960 --> 00:12:02.800 so 00:12:02.800 --> 00:12:06.800 To the extent that I think that this could be enhanced 00:12:06.800 --> 00:12:09.280 if each step 00:12:09.280 --> 00:12:11.280 had a specific 00:12:11.280 --> 00:12:13.840 Reference back to 00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:16.800 an ordinance provision or uh 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:20.000 a um 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:25.280 Revision in the the the the plan of the statement of work or the 00:12:25.280 --> 00:12:33.920 The the steps that we need to follow then I think that would make it easier for somebody who is not as familiar with us 00:12:33.920 --> 00:12:40.560 To look at one of the blocks and say well, what does that mean they can go immediately to that section of the ordinance or the 00:12:40.560 --> 00:12:42.400 the uh 00:12:42.400 --> 00:12:43.520 the rules 00:12:43.520 --> 00:12:45.840 and and and see it so 00:12:47.760 --> 00:12:49.760 That's 00:12:49.760 --> 00:12:54.560 Bob I don't know if i'm piggybacking on you if that was your uh, uh 00:12:54.560 --> 00:12:59.280 That was your suggestion or or not but 00:12:59.280 --> 00:13:05.200 Uh, i'm i'm referencing the actual citation in the ordinance or the or the rules 00:13:05.200 --> 00:13:16.160 Yeah, i'm not unfamiliar with the flow charts, uh, and sometimes they they they can get confusing but 00:13:17.840 --> 00:13:20.480 In terms of making it simple for the folks that don't 00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:27.140 Deal with this stuff on a routine basis. I think that's key to uh having this thing be effective 00:13:27.140 --> 00:13:39.920 Yeah, I think referring back to the ordinance would be would that would be pretty easy to add wouldn't it madison to go in and add that 00:13:39.920 --> 00:13:42.880 um, yes, would it 00:13:43.680 --> 00:13:50.080 Help or be more confusing when don was talking about, you know that other document. I know I I don't have it here with me 00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:51.760 I know what he's talking about 00:13:51.760 --> 00:13:53.760 um, would it be 00:13:53.760 --> 00:14:02.320 More confusing to add a reference to that or just keep it right straight to the ordinance like uh, ron was suggesting 00:14:02.320 --> 00:14:04.000 and and bob 00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:05.200 um 00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:10.400 I haven't uh, I i think i'm aware of the document that don is referencing 00:14:10.480 --> 00:14:14.800 Um, I haven't looked at it that it wasn't it didn't factor into creating this 00:14:14.800 --> 00:14:17.600 um 00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:24.080 So one thing we that I could do is take that and see if I how I could match it up to the flow charts 00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:30.000 um, or create create something like a a written narrative like that 00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:32.800 um document 00:14:32.800 --> 00:14:34.880 That would match up to like 00:14:34.880 --> 00:14:37.200 to the flow charts 00:14:38.080 --> 00:14:42.560 So basically, you know the the first step is that the complainant submits 00:14:42.560 --> 00:14:50.560 The complaint form the ethics complaint form, right? And so there would be a backup document that basically says number one 00:14:50.560 --> 00:14:55.200 This happens and it has detail like that. So, um 00:14:55.200 --> 00:15:01.920 I i'm not sure exactly how the processing ethics complaint 101 document looks but basically 00:15:01.920 --> 00:15:04.480 um 00:15:04.480 --> 00:15:06.480 We could take create, you know 00:15:06.880 --> 00:15:08.880 adjust that to uh 00:15:08.880 --> 00:15:18.560 And add it basically to these flow charts so that it was like one kind of process packet, uh with the visuals and the narrative 00:15:18.560 --> 00:15:22.000 Yeah, and what you have written, you know, it may be 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:30.480 That it enhances some of the little descriptions or whatever so and yeah, and we could even we could include 00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:37.040 Um the references to the ordnance sections on the actual visual or we could include it in um, 00:15:37.040 --> 00:15:39.360 that kind of narrative 00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:41.520 and um 00:15:41.520 --> 00:15:45.040 In I don't want to get off posting because we've separated the two items 00:15:45.040 --> 00:15:49.760 But if we created a narrative document, we might not even need this other timeline document 00:15:49.760 --> 00:15:52.320 If those timelines were in the narrative 00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:58.720 So 00:15:58.720 --> 00:16:01.600 But now I think the timeline document to me 00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:06.240 makes makes more more sense than uh 00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:09.120 the flow chart 00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:11.680 both together and kind of 00:16:11.680 --> 00:16:20.400 Reading them and working them together. It makes sense, but I still think that the 101 ethics complaint 101 that we already have 00:16:20.400 --> 00:16:24.400 Is still simpler than than what we have here today 00:16:24.400 --> 00:16:28.000 Or at least that format 00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:31.440 Okay 00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:34.400 As the first, uh 00:16:34.400 --> 00:16:39.600 Document you're referring to solve the problem that we were trying to solve with this 00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:45.600 To me it it does it's 21 steps and it's uh 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:52.800 Madison oh yeah, you didn't have that document. I was trying to think of 00:16:53.680 --> 00:16:59.680 Yeah, this is page one of it that covers the first three steps. I'll just kind of open it up. Okay 00:16:59.680 --> 00:17:05.120 I don't know how I can do it. Oh, that's good. We can see that. Thank you 00:17:05.120 --> 00:17:11.920 And it step one is the complaint must be submitted to the proper complaint form to the city auditor 00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:15.040 The complaint must be hand delivered via us mail 00:17:15.040 --> 00:17:20.960 That's one step one and the next it says the author has excuse me 00:17:20.960 --> 00:17:26.480 The auditor has five business days to determine if the complainant is administrative complete and timely 00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:29.280 And so it goes through each of those steps 00:17:29.280 --> 00:17:34.160 Being 21 steps through the entire process 00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:37.920 much like flow chart does but it 00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:45.680 I guess there's just more more information in each of the blocks than what the flow chart has 00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:48.880 It kind of oh well 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:52.000 I don't know 00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:55.600 Yeah, I understand what you're saying. I feel like 00:17:55.600 --> 00:18:02.480 I first of all, I want to say I know madison has done a ton of work on this and she did a fabulous job 00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:08.160 But I think anything we can do to make it very simple and very clear 00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:14.480 Is great because it seems like we already put a lot of pressure on the complainant to 00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:19.600 not only be the complainant, but maybe even the prosecutor and I 00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:22.880 I don't know where that happens 00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:26.640 So I I think making it simple would be great 00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:29.600 um 00:18:29.600 --> 00:18:36.080 Um, well and i'll just add, you know, I think part of the reason 00:18:36.080 --> 00:18:39.760 Part of the reason I created the flow charts was 00:18:39.760 --> 00:18:41.520 um 00:18:41.520 --> 00:18:48.240 To have a visualization, right? So I think don I mean I I see what you're saying about the the 101 00:18:49.040 --> 00:18:51.040 um document and I 00:18:51.040 --> 00:18:56.800 I I agree that having that available. I don't think it's available to the public right now 00:18:56.800 --> 00:19:03.440 um, so I I certainly think we can make that available to the public just make sure that it still lines up with um, 00:19:03.440 --> 00:19:06.480 The current ordinance because there have been revisions 00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:09.120 um, uh 00:19:09.120 --> 00:19:14.480 And then but I I guess I what i'd like from the board is 00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:23.120 One should we do that right go go through that revising maybe that process 101 just to make sure it still matches up 00:19:23.120 --> 00:19:25.280 And then publicize it 00:19:25.280 --> 00:19:26.320 um 00:19:26.320 --> 00:19:31.600 And then two does the board still believe that there should be some sort of visual like the flow chart? 00:19:31.600 --> 00:19:37.360 To help people who you know, perhaps are better at visuals or any or something like that 00:19:37.360 --> 00:19:39.200 um 00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:41.440 Should that still be there? And if if yes 00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:45.680 We could even package those together, right? So you have the document 00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:52.320 Processing a complaint 101. Um, but then we also have a visual 00:19:52.320 --> 00:19:55.360 Uh, so that you could look at both 00:19:55.360 --> 00:19:58.160 together 00:19:58.160 --> 00:20:02.640 That might be really good because like ron said if we have the flow chart that refers 00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:09.360 But I mean, I think that 101 that don has you know, it it does refer back and give you a good analysis 00:20:09.760 --> 00:20:13.200 And then if we do what ron said and add the here go to this ordinance 00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:14.880 um 00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:16.640 then that gives 00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:18.640 You know right brain left brain 00:20:18.640 --> 00:20:25.680 You know whichever direction that that where things sink in I mean i'm i'm a visual person but 00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:30.320 But some people aren't so I think it would be good for citizens for 00:20:30.320 --> 00:20:37.680 You know to make it easy i'm with aneta like make it as easy as possible and then they have two formats that they can use 00:20:37.760 --> 00:20:40.960 To figure out which one they're more comfortable with 00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:45.760 Because I feel like if somebody wants to file a complaint, they certainly want to understand 00:20:45.760 --> 00:20:48.480 What all this what goes on? 00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:49.440 so 00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:51.440 yeah brent 00:20:51.440 --> 00:20:54.960 I I agree. I think uh presenting 00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:59.040 Um the information in as many ways possible to make it accessible 00:20:59.040 --> 00:21:05.680 For me looking at the flow because I I worked with logic models for many years and so to see this 00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:07.680 I would 00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:12.400 Even reading it. I would start diagramming it myself just to figure out what the process was 00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:14.880 and so I I 00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:16.880 I like the idea of both 00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:28.980 I've got a question. Who is the primary audience for the different documents? 00:21:35.200 --> 00:21:36.720 Um 00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:41.600 We've had city council people we've had political consultants 00:21:41.600 --> 00:21:44.160 We've had political pundits 00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:50.080 We've had just people off the street have been the ones that have filed a complaint so far 00:21:50.080 --> 00:21:54.160 So it's it's almost as wide a variety as if you could possibly have 00:21:54.160 --> 00:21:57.280 Yeah, that's a good point 00:21:57.280 --> 00:22:00.320 Yeah, and I I think um 00:22:00.320 --> 00:22:04.160 originally when I presented this I think the intention was to 00:22:04.800 --> 00:22:11.360 Create some some document some documents that could be put on the board's web page city web page so that 00:22:11.360 --> 00:22:13.920 um 00:22:13.920 --> 00:22:19.920 The process could be made, you know easier to understand than trying to go through the ordinance to understand it 00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:26.240 Because they're on the web page. There was just the ethics complaint form at the time 00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:33.680 But you know, I also think the board could certainly use it right it's not 00:22:34.560 --> 00:22:36.560 You know not excluded from that 00:22:36.560 --> 00:22:38.480 um 00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:40.480 So that was kind of the intent the intention 00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:46.000 I have another I guess comment 00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:51.120 I was not able to attend the whole thing last time my my zoom crashed 00:22:51.120 --> 00:22:53.600 and 00:22:53.600 --> 00:22:55.600 I didn't have the uh 00:22:55.600 --> 00:22:58.560 The opportunity for the dialogue 00:22:58.560 --> 00:23:01.360 But looking at the timeline 00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:07.120 Uh, I find it a bit staggering that uh, it could take this process 00:23:07.120 --> 00:23:10.380 196 days 00:23:10.380 --> 00:23:12.800 and in terms of 00:23:12.800 --> 00:23:15.360 Uh the concept of keeping things simple 00:23:15.360 --> 00:23:17.600 uh 00:23:17.600 --> 00:23:19.120 to me that 00:23:19.120 --> 00:23:21.120 That's going in the opposite direction 00:23:26.240 --> 00:23:32.800 I do think that that timeline would be important if someone files a complaint just before an election 00:23:32.800 --> 00:23:36.800 and maybe the purpose of the complaint is to 00:23:36.800 --> 00:23:42.560 Possibly throw an opponent off track in the middle of their election bid 00:23:42.560 --> 00:23:49.680 So I would I would think that there would be times when we would need to slow walk it a little bit and at least 00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:51.680 Wait for the election to be over 00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:59.200 So that the the election the ethics process isn't causing problems for the candidate 00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:02.240 Who at that point needs to focus on getting through their election? 00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:06.900 But yeah, I think in general I would hope it would go as fast as possible 00:24:06.900 --> 00:24:16.420 I would ask what if the complaint had the ability to sway the election one way or the other? 00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:24.640 Uh 00:24:24.640 --> 00:24:27.600 Like that would be a good thing 00:24:27.600 --> 00:24:30.080 I mean if if somebody was doing something 00:24:30.080 --> 00:24:34.080 Unethical in their campaign and then that came out 00:24:34.080 --> 00:24:37.760 That that might sway the election 00:24:37.760 --> 00:24:41.360 Well that that would 00:24:41.360 --> 00:24:44.640 Then slow walking in that particular case would not be a good thing would it 00:24:44.640 --> 00:24:50.160 No, and I don't think it would be good if the candidate wasn't doing anything wrong 00:24:50.720 --> 00:24:52.720 It would definitely be worse 00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:54.240 um 00:24:54.240 --> 00:25:01.920 You know because then we've distracted them and and made their election bid even more difficult while somebody just 00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:08.160 Filed a complaint that was just political. So that's my concern is that when it's near an election 00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:13.200 We need to be very very careful. Let the election take place and then once 00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:19.840 Once the election has you know filtered out then hear the complaint 00:25:20.720 --> 00:25:22.720 I think if 00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:29.280 It was filed and we felt that it had a potential impact on the outcome of the election 00:25:29.280 --> 00:25:31.920 if we 00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:36.960 Fast walked it and got to a conclusion quickly and the person was exonerated 00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:41.680 I think that they would be much happier than if we slow walked it and it 00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:49.040 Um impacted them. I I hate to interrupt this conversation. I think we we might be off posting we I think um 00:25:50.080 --> 00:25:51.280 if 00:25:51.280 --> 00:25:53.760 If we want to have a discussion about 00:25:53.760 --> 00:25:56.800 filing complaints 00:25:56.800 --> 00:25:59.200 We can certainly put that on an agenda 00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:03.360 I actually think that that's a good idea because I think 00:26:03.360 --> 00:26:11.040 My office is always going to try to process complaints as fast as possible because of the timelines and if we want to put 00:26:11.040 --> 00:26:12.960 some sort of um 00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:16.080 If we want to have a practice where we slow walk 00:26:16.560 --> 00:26:20.880 or some or or fast walk something during election season, I think that should be like a um, 00:26:20.880 --> 00:26:28.720 A a direction that directions that that is received from the whole board and potentially included in the um 00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:34.720 So may I request that we put that on the next agenda? We can certainly do that. Okay 00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:43.120 I had one more question. I couldn't find it. Um 00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:47.600 Did we have a resolution when we were talking about 00:26:47.600 --> 00:26:50.960 if the complainant doesn't show up to 00:26:50.960 --> 00:26:58.800 Kind of prosecute the hearing that the hearing goes away. I know that proposal was made. Did we make a decision on that? 00:26:58.800 --> 00:27:01.680 Because I don't recall a vote 00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:04.240 That's in the ordinance 00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:10.560 I believe the current ordinance that it's required for the complaint to appear. Um, wow 00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:18.000 That's not been made clear, yeah that needs to be in the 00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:26.400 Would there be any exceptions to that if a person were not able to be there 00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:35.280 My understanding is that um, per the rules of procedure the complainant can request a delay essentially 00:27:35.280 --> 00:27:40.480 And I believe we've had that occur in the past, um, because there there was a conflict or something 00:27:40.480 --> 00:27:42.880 um 00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:47.520 But I believe that can only have occur once i'm really just going off my memory here 00:27:47.520 --> 00:27:54.240 But there is a process to where the complainant or the respondent or either I think can um 00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:56.880 Request that the hearing be delayed 00:27:56.880 --> 00:27:59.280 for cause basically 00:27:59.280 --> 00:28:10.320 What part of that and not to put you on the spot madison and I know we're going to do timelines in the next 00:28:11.520 --> 00:28:13.520 um 00:28:13.520 --> 00:28:14.960 Item 00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:18.400 But where what you just said, where would that fall? 00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:21.600 on the flow chart 00:28:21.600 --> 00:28:27.040 Uh on the flow chart the request for delay 00:28:27.040 --> 00:28:33.040 Yeah, I would say um 00:28:33.040 --> 00:28:38.720 There's this the box at the top and then the second box under it 00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:44.560 That kind of all happens in in that kind of period in between the hearing being scheduled 00:28:44.560 --> 00:28:49.840 and um the hearing actually being conducted so I don't think 00:28:49.840 --> 00:28:55.600 The delay piece is included specifically, but we can add that 00:28:55.600 --> 00:28:59.440 Isn't it on there now where 00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:02.160 It says when the complainant 00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:05.200 Appears and presents the case 00:29:05.520 --> 00:29:11.440 But if he doesn't you know, if there's no appearance the case is dismissed and that's on the flow chart, right? 00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:14.480 I think we we have included the the 00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:21.280 That the complainant must appear uh and present their case. That's that was added after last time 00:29:21.280 --> 00:29:23.600 That was a great suggestion from from the board 00:29:23.600 --> 00:29:29.600 But the ability for somebody to delay to request a delay in the hearing 00:29:31.520 --> 00:29:35.440 Is not specifically on here, but I do think it would occur in that second 00:29:35.440 --> 00:29:41.600 Middle box from the top basically is in the process that starts with receive submitted 00:29:41.600 --> 00:29:46.160 Correct. So so we just added that after the last meeting 00:29:46.160 --> 00:29:50.560 It was already in the ordinance. We just added it to the flow chart 00:29:50.560 --> 00:29:58.000 To make that clear to I have I have a really big issue with that in our ordinance because I think 00:29:58.640 --> 00:30:04.880 it is asking a citizen to file a complaint and to act as a prosecutor and I know that 00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:12.080 I don't agree with it. But this board wants this to look as much like the role of law as possible 00:30:12.080 --> 00:30:18.000 But I don't think that's a good thing. I I think that there should be some separation and someone else should be 00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:21.420 Representing that case 00:30:27.520 --> 00:30:31.440 Um, i've said it so i'll leave it at that 00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:40.800 Would it be possible for the complainant to assign a surrogate if they didn't feel comfortable presenting the presenting the uh, 00:30:40.800 --> 00:30:43.440 their complaint 00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:50.080 Um, I don't I don't know that that's currently allowed under the ordinance. I i'd have to look trey. Do you have any idea? 00:30:50.080 --> 00:30:52.960 I I also think talking about specific 00:30:53.820 --> 00:30:59.520 Specifically about that piece of the ordinance is is again trying to kind of getting off posting 00:30:59.520 --> 00:31:03.600 We can put that on a on a future agenda as well 00:31:03.600 --> 00:31:10.160 You know under hearing four it actually states that uh, 00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:16.720 The complainant is required to testify at the hearing a complainant barrier to testify 00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:20.800 At a hearing shall be ground for dismissal of the complaint 00:31:23.600 --> 00:31:25.600 And that's that's the code 00:31:25.600 --> 00:31:28.480 Does that happen in a court of law? 00:31:28.480 --> 00:31:35.040 What if party doesn't show up yes, well if the complainant 00:31:35.040 --> 00:31:37.840 I mean if there's a crime 00:31:37.840 --> 00:31:41.440 um, there's somebody who files a complaint, but I 00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:47.920 I don't know that they always have they don't have to present the case. They might testify 00:31:47.920 --> 00:31:52.960 I'll just step in and say we're kind of we're we're getting off posting 00:31:53.600 --> 00:32:00.720 The postings to talk flowchart specific. Sorry, I I would like to go back at a future meeting, but 00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:04.320 Could I ask that we consider that at a future meeting? 00:32:04.320 --> 00:32:08.240 Is yes, or am I okay future agenda? 00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:18.080 As it relates to that item, I think a little clarification might be required in order to make it an agenda item 00:32:18.880 --> 00:32:26.080 Is one thing for the complainant to be required to testify is another thing for the complainant to have a representative that 00:32:26.080 --> 00:32:28.240 Helps them present the case 00:32:28.240 --> 00:32:32.240 So I think both can under the ordinance both can probably happen 00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:35.340 simultaneously 00:32:35.340 --> 00:32:40.720 And that's and that's correct and under the ordinance it says both the complainant and the and the 00:32:40.720 --> 00:32:45.840 Uh complaining has a right to be represented by council. So the respondent and the complaint 00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:48.960 May be represented by council in the ordinance 00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:56.480 And in a future meeting, uh, maybe discuss what if it's a whistleblower type complaint when they don't want to be revealed 00:32:56.480 --> 00:33:00.160 What do you do about that 00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:02.720 If you don't have anything 00:33:02.720 --> 00:33:08.560 I believe that there's a prohibition basically from keeping the complaint and its identity. Um a secret 00:33:08.560 --> 00:33:14.720 But maybe they wouldn't be present they didn't feel comfortable being present 00:33:17.440 --> 00:33:23.060 Have a surrogate I guess I would like to talk about that too like that's concerning 00:33:23.060 --> 00:33:32.320 Um, so I 00:33:32.320 --> 00:33:37.920 Appreciate the conversation we're having I I do want to just make sure that we don't go too far off posting 00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:40.240 um 00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:41.600 it 00:33:41.600 --> 00:33:44.800 I just i'll summarize kind of where I think we are on the flow charts 00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:47.440 um, it seems like we 00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:54.000 We want you're giving me direction to go back and take a look at the the processing ethics complaint 00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:55.980 uh 101 00:33:55.980 --> 00:33:57.920 document to 00:33:57.920 --> 00:34:02.960 See how it compares to our current version of the ordinance and make any necessary changes 00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:04.640 um 00:34:04.640 --> 00:34:07.200 To see how that aligns with the flow charts that we have 00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:10.480 And then to bring that back kind of as a package 00:34:12.320 --> 00:34:16.640 That when it was approved could then be put um on the board's webpage to 00:34:16.640 --> 00:34:21.360 Help the public and and the board if when when needed, uh 00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:26.720 Uh know understand the ethics ordinance, uh better 00:34:26.720 --> 00:34:35.360 I really like that packet idea and I will say I came on the board later and I never saw that 101 document 00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:40.720 So maybe it was just an oversight, but i'm not seeing it. It sounds good 00:34:43.040 --> 00:34:44.640 Okay 00:34:44.640 --> 00:34:47.600 And i've got a request related to the packet 00:34:47.600 --> 00:34:53.200 Uh when you put that together if you will for those of us with no brain rather right or left 00:34:53.200 --> 00:34:55.760 Would you put a color? 00:34:55.760 --> 00:34:57.920 uh on the part that you're 00:34:57.920 --> 00:35:00.960 changing 00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:06.560 So that I can look at and say oh that's different. Yes, I for the the 101 process 00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:13.600 If there are changes that need to be made i'll i'll present a red line copy basically so that you can see what's what's been changed 00:35:13.600 --> 00:35:16.640 Due to the updated ordinance 00:35:16.640 --> 00:35:25.360 Then would it be appropriate to call the question because I definitely think that what we're talking about makes sense 00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:27.840 Does that sound? 00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:29.840 Good to everybody 00:35:29.840 --> 00:35:32.960 To add those things to the agenda you mean 00:35:34.320 --> 00:35:38.080 Well to to call the question and vote for the packet 00:35:38.080 --> 00:35:43.920 I don't know that we actually need to vote it. It's like there's direction to come back 00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:47.780 I don't agree with that. Um, unless trey you think differently 00:35:47.780 --> 00:35:51.280 No, no, there's not a 00:35:51.280 --> 00:35:55.920 Something to call. I think it's just this is more direction oriented than anything else. Okay 00:35:55.920 --> 00:36:01.280 Yeah, and that's what the um is to give the staff direction on the notice. So 00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:07.120 Anybody else have any more direction 00:36:07.120 --> 00:36:16.080 Or you know great suggestions, yeah, I want to thank don for bringing that up because I think that's a good 00:36:16.080 --> 00:36:18.880 a good thing to add 00:36:18.880 --> 00:36:22.080 All right 00:36:22.080 --> 00:36:28.640 And we uh, just as a point of order we didn't call technically call the two items together 00:36:28.640 --> 00:36:32.960 So do you want to still call the second item and if there's any? 00:36:33.920 --> 00:36:39.040 Um specific questions or thoughts about the the timeline document. Yes 00:36:39.040 --> 00:36:41.840 Discuss the second one already 00:36:41.840 --> 00:36:47.120 And as a person, I don't know if there's anything else that someone needs to add to it 00:36:47.120 --> 00:36:53.280 Yeah, i'll i'll just call it and then if anybody has something that we didn't just discuss 00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:57.040 As to this document we can give those suggestions. So 00:36:57.040 --> 00:37:01.840 Um board of ethics 21-009 on the agenda 00:37:02.320 --> 00:37:09.680 Receive a report hold a discussion and give staff direction regarding proposed ethics complaint process timelines 00:37:09.680 --> 00:37:12.560 And so we've got the timeline document 00:37:12.560 --> 00:37:15.200 And does anyone have anything? 00:37:15.200 --> 00:37:23.360 Uh to add or comments or direction or anything for them with regard to this document that we didn't discuss 00:37:23.360 --> 00:37:26.420 A moment ago in 21-008 00:37:29.920 --> 00:37:34.560 I would request I think i'm still a little uh unclear about the direction on if 00:37:34.560 --> 00:37:42.880 This should continue being a document I work on or if this is being replaced basically by the processing 101 00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:45.360 ethics, um document 00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:53.540 My feeling is it is a document that you can continue to work on or even blend into the 101 00:37:53.540 --> 00:37:57.440 Because to me 00:37:57.520 --> 00:38:00.240 This document makes your blow chart work 00:38:00.240 --> 00:38:03.760 I mean it's me 00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:07.280 I agree 00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:10.160 I think being able to give a packet would be 00:38:10.160 --> 00:38:16.080 very helpful to people because then they can read it different ways and understand better how to 00:38:16.080 --> 00:38:19.920 Play by the rules basically 00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:24.720 I've got a comment based on our earlier discussion of this thing 00:38:26.320 --> 00:38:30.560 If we have the opportunity to slow walk or fast walk or whatever you want to call it 00:38:30.560 --> 00:38:33.200 That needs to be referenced in there 00:38:33.200 --> 00:38:39.120 I thought that was something we were maybe going to talk about at the next meeting maybe 00:38:39.120 --> 00:38:41.840 Yes 00:38:41.840 --> 00:38:43.840 What I heard? Yeah 00:38:43.840 --> 00:38:53.440 Yes, I think what my response is our office always processes the complaints as quickly as possible to meet the deadlines that are set out in 00:38:53.440 --> 00:38:54.640 the ordinance 00:38:54.640 --> 00:38:57.440 um, if there's a a will on the board to 00:38:57.440 --> 00:39:03.600 uh have that process be different during election season, um 00:39:03.600 --> 00:39:06.400 Then I would think that needs to be formally 00:39:06.400 --> 00:39:08.960 decided and 00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:14.160 Uh per annettas request, um, we're going to bring that back at a future meeting potentially the next meeting 00:39:14.160 --> 00:39:19.280 Okay, we're still kind of just to so y'all know we're still kind of waiting on appointments to be completed 00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:22.800 So that we have the the new board seated 00:39:24.640 --> 00:39:26.640 So 00:39:26.640 --> 00:39:35.520 All right, so I think that takes care of what's on the agenda, um tray is there anything else we need to do before I can 00:39:35.520 --> 00:39:38.720 ask for a motion to adjourn or 00:39:38.720 --> 00:39:43.360 You don't even need a motion to adjourn if everybody's 00:39:43.360 --> 00:39:49.120 I guess to the point of where the last agenda item is now over then you can 00:39:49.120 --> 00:39:52.080 Conclude the meeting as we have finished all the items 00:39:52.080 --> 00:39:54.160 Okay 00:39:54.160 --> 00:39:56.160 All right. So the wait, sorry 00:39:56.160 --> 00:40:03.120 Sorry, i'm looking away. I'm so sorry, uh, one more point of order just uh, for the good of the order. Um, 00:40:03.120 --> 00:40:05.600 the next meeting is is 00:40:05.600 --> 00:40:13.760 Regularly scheduled meeting to occur on the last thursday of march like our normal meetings except for it will be at 10 a.m 00:40:13.760 --> 00:40:16.480 instead of 3 p.m. We 00:40:16.480 --> 00:40:21.920 Didn't we we just had to switch the times around for that one meeting. Um 00:40:22.880 --> 00:40:24.720 so 00:40:24.720 --> 00:40:26.720 On the 25th 00:40:26.720 --> 00:40:29.120 I believe 00:40:29.120 --> 00:40:35.440 Yes, the 25th of march. So, um, oh it's it's laura. We were just uh closing laura 00:40:35.440 --> 00:40:43.200 But I was saying that the the next um board of ethic regularly scheduled board meeting 00:40:43.200 --> 00:40:46.880 Is march 25th at 10 a.m. Instead of 3 p.m 00:40:46.880 --> 00:40:51.920 Um, obviously we'll send out emails with the agenda and reminding everyone of that 00:40:53.600 --> 00:40:55.600 But just so you're aware 00:40:55.600 --> 00:41:02.640 Okay, sorry everyone, uh, I don't know if anybody's life has been up ended like mine has in the past week with 00:41:02.640 --> 00:41:04.880 All of my plumbing not working 00:41:04.880 --> 00:41:08.960 Uh, so I apologize for being late. Um, I guess whoever was 00:41:08.960 --> 00:41:12.640 Chair can adjourn or I can adjourn if this is the end 00:41:12.640 --> 00:41:22.000 Um, and hopefully next week next month we'll get back on track to like actually, uh talking about a little more substantive things 00:41:22.080 --> 00:41:26.080 So, um, I guess if madison hasn't already said it, um send her anything 00:41:26.080 --> 00:41:33.840 Um, you want to talk about before then we already have some ideas, but um, whatever else so I guess with that i'll adjourn 00:41:33.840 --> 00:41:37.040 After not being at the meeting 00:41:37.040 --> 00:41:40.080 I'm, sorry, your plumbing's not working. Oh, man 00:41:40.080 --> 00:41:42.080 Ours isn't either 00:41:42.080 --> 00:41:44.960 Yeah, well old houses. Yeah. Yeah 00:41:44.960 --> 00:41:51.440 Okay, um, all right, so I guess we adjourn now that i'm on 00:41:52.080 --> 00:41:53.540 - Yes, thank you. 00:41:53.540 --> 00:41:54.380 - Thank you. 00:41:54.380 --> 00:41:55.220 - Thank you.