1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,920 Oh, I think I think Miss Peele gave the countdown. Okay, I couldn't hear 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:11,280 All right. Um, so I want to call to order that i'm charlotte bradshaw vice chair of the port of ethics and 3 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:17,060 The meeting today is date is february 25th of 2021 4 00:00:17,060 --> 00:00:20,480 We are starting the meeting at 305 pm 5 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:24,340 And the first item for consideration 6 00:00:24,340 --> 00:00:29,840 Madison, do you want to take role as to who's here? Do you want me to go into the first item? 7 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,720 You can just go into the first item with the I think we we're good on the roll. Okay 8 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,700 All right. The first item for consideration 9 00:00:37,700 --> 00:00:40,980 Uh board of ethics 21 - 007 10 00:00:40,980 --> 00:00:47,220 And this is to consider the approval of the minutes for january 28th of 2021 11 00:00:47,220 --> 00:00:54,500 I'd like to move to approve the minutes for january 28th 12 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:01,440 Do we have a second I second 13 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:05,520 Thank you 14 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:12,800 All right, so the minutes for january 28 the 2021 are 15 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,200 approved in their 16 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,560 Uh form as they are presented at this meeting 17 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:24,080 Do we need to take a roll call vote trey on this right right if if we're gonna do it by vote 18 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,200 We've got to do it by roll call on a zoom thing. Sorry 19 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:30,820 Sure, I knew roll call was in there somewhere 20 00:01:30,820 --> 00:01:37,460 Uh the joys of doing this virtually exactly exactly 21 00:01:37,460 --> 00:01:40,240 um 22 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:42,320 All right, i'm trying to see who's up here so 23 00:01:42,320 --> 00:01:45,920 I'm at uh 24 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:51,600 So do you want me to just why don't y'all just say your name and then if you approve them, is that okay trey? 25 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:56,320 Well, what you can do is just just in the order that they appear on your screen 26 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,440 Just go one at a time through them and it'll work that way 27 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,000 Because see i'm not seeing everyone 28 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,000 I see madison. Oh 29 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,640 Is it okay trey if I call them? 30 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,840 Just that's okay 31 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,520 Ron with a phone, but that's it. I don't see everyone else 32 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:17,760 Does that work for you charlotte if I just call you bet? Okay 33 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,080 um 34 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:21,200 well 35 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:22,480 charlotte 36 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:23,760 uh-huh 37 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:28,000 Do you approve? I do. Okay, uh annetta. Yes 38 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:31,360 Uh patricia. Yes 39 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:32,960 deborah 40 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:33,840 Yes 41 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:35,120 don 42 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:36,400 Yes 43 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:38,400 bob 44 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,680 You're on mute bob 45 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:52,000 Oh, you're still on mute 46 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:55,760 Okay 47 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:25,760 Okay 48 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:40,880 Somebody needs to let me in ron. Are you trying to join via video? Yes 49 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:52,240 Can you hear me there we go bob, oh finally love technology 50 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,240 And I believe i'm an alternate so I don't vote 51 00:03:56,240 --> 00:04:01,920 Is that correct 52 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:06,240 Sorry. Oh, yeah, we're we're voting on approval of last week's uh last month's minutes 53 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:11,120 But as an alternate, I do not vote correct. No, you can vote because um, 54 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:16,400 You're a regular member for this meeting. Oh, okay. All right then approve 55 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:18,720 All right 56 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,680 Um ron they're working to get you in via video 57 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:24,240 Uh, but do you approve the minutes? 58 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:26,480 approved 59 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:28,480 All right 60 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,600 So then I I believe the motion passes 61 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,720 All right, miss brashaw you can now 62 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:38,800 Now go to the next one 63 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:40,000 right 64 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:45,680 Yeah, you can go ahead and claim it or mark it approved now officially and then we'll move on right? 65 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:47,760 That's what I was just going to do. So the 66 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:56,800 After a vote of the members present today to approve the minutes of january 28 2021 those minutes in their current form 67 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:58,800 That was presented are approved 68 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:03,540 The next item on our agenda is board of ethics 21-008 69 00:05:03,540 --> 00:05:14,000 And it states receive a report hold a discussion and give staff direction regarding proposed ethics complaint process 70 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,080 flow charts 71 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:19,520 All right, and um, so this is 72 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:23,440 Basically a continuation of our discussion last month. I had presented 73 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:28,640 These two flow charts that kind of ran through the ethics complaint process 74 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:36,560 Uh one which kind of was about the preliminary assessment piece and then the second which moved into if there was actually a complaint 75 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:38,560 um 76 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:43,920 The board made some suggested changes and I tried to incorporate those into what's presented before you today 77 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:46,240 um 78 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:47,440 so 79 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:53,040 The flow charts are in your backup if y'all have on now, I think if it's okay with you 80 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,760 um vice madam vice chair 81 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:59,600 I'll just take any any additional, um suggested changes 82 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:01,440 and 83 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:07,760 I'll just if you have those just tell me and i'll write them down and then we'll go back through to see if we need to um 84 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,640 Basically to get consensus on changing them 85 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:14,560 All right 86 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:18,800 Okay. Um, i'm printing mine right now. I've seen them on the um 87 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:22,320 Screen but it's a little easier to see in person 88 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:31,440 Or printed. Sorry. All right. So opening this up for discussion and madison is asking if anybody has any suggested changes 89 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,320 to the flow chart and 90 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:36,640 Thank you for doing this 91 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:42,800 I'm a very visual person. This is extremely helpful and I know it took a lot of work 92 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:44,560 um 93 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:52,260 So i'll open it up to everyone present. Does anyone have any suggestions for her for her request or modifications? 94 00:06:52,260 --> 00:06:56,080 I just 95 00:06:56,080 --> 00:07:03,600 Really like how you incorporate our comments from last time and it for me as a visual person it flows much more easily 96 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,480 One step to the next. Thank you 97 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,240 Agreed 98 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:21,700 Does anybody have any discussion about the flow chart or any other suggestions or changes whatsoever? 99 00:07:21,700 --> 00:07:26,480 At dawn part, right? Yes, sir 100 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:33,760 I don't know if i'm a visual person or or what but I find the flow chart 101 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:36,480 Or a little bit confusing 102 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:40,800 And i've gone through these processes on many occasions already 103 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:46,000 And then when I take the flow chart and I put it with our next agenda 104 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,880 Will we go through the steps that they have? 105 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:50,800 I think 106 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:55,920 There needs to I guess I need to understand how they're going to combine the two together 107 00:07:55,920 --> 00:08:00,720 Because it takes the two together to really understand what we're even talking about 108 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:07,360 And I might make a suggestion also 109 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:15,360 At the very beginning the city of denton did a process and ethics complaint 101 110 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:20,400 21 steps on filing this and to me 111 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,440 That makes more sense 112 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,320 Especially if you put it with the flow chart 113 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:32,880 Uh on if a layperson comes in how a layperson would follow this process through 114 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:38,720 Uh, but I think just the flow chart by itself is is pretty confusing 115 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:41,600 my comment 116 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:46,720 And we do appreciate the work because I know it took a lot of hard work to do it 117 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:50,560 And so don are you um 118 00:08:50,560 --> 00:08:57,920 So you're saying it's it's harder to reconcile that flow chart with what's in writing, correct? 119 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,800 For those to jive together 120 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:02,880 Yes, but I think it it 121 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,200 It takes both together 122 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:10,960 To kind of make sense at all and even when you look across the top of it where you're talking about 123 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:14,080 What the complainant is supposed to do the city auditor? 124 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:21,200 What the board would do or the board panel and then the board of ethics and you come back and you get the next page 125 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:24,720 You get the respondent the board of ethics and the complainant 126 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:32,560 But when you add the the next two pages to it which gives us six steps 127 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:35,680 It's clear 128 00:09:35,680 --> 00:09:39,520 But to me, it's still not as clear as what we've what we've had 129 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:46,800 On our process of ethics complaint 101 that I thought was given to everyone that filed a complaint before 130 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:52,400 And that's 21 steps, but it's uh, each step is outlined and it's 131 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,040 It makes sense 132 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,440 uh 133 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:05,040 Uh, just just a thought. I don't know if anyone else has looked at this process on ethics complaint 101, but it's uh, 134 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,000 It's really quite good 135 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,560 And I thought about it when we had our last meeting 136 00:10:10,560 --> 00:10:17,680 But I went through my paperwork and dug through and couldn't find it and finally found it about two days ago 137 00:10:17,680 --> 00:10:22,400 All right 138 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,120 This is bob let me add a 139 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:27,840 comment after don's 140 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:35,680 One of the one of the things that I just have never figured out is on page nine the first page 141 00:10:35,680 --> 00:10:39,920 uh, and the top box for the board 142 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,560 Complaint hearing process 143 00:10:42,560 --> 00:10:46,400 And that seems to be a do loop that you don't get out of 144 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,280 But i'm assuming that 145 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:51,520 The complaint process is then actually 146 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:54,960 Page 10, is that correct? 147 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:56,640 correct 148 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:57,920 All right 149 00:10:57,920 --> 00:10:59,600 Okay, so 150 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:04,320 I would suggest that that you say something in like in a parenz on that box 151 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,600 See see page 10 or something like that 152 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,880 We can certainly add something like that 153 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:17,120 Just as a reference. That's the intention is if you get to that step you would go to the next flowchart. Basically, right? 154 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:22,080 I assumed that but I wasn't sure that was the case. I I used to be 155 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:28,320 An applications programmer when I got out of the army many many years ago and that was with kobalt 156 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,600 So i'm i'm dating myself. I know that but 157 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:38,800 flow charts were a very integral part of uh programming back then and 158 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:40,720 and now 159 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:42,080 um 160 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:45,360 I like the idea of of this flow chart 161 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:47,760 but 162 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:54,160 I think I and and we are in a little different position than most people who would look at it because we're 163 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:56,560 familiar with the 164 00:11:56,560 --> 00:11:58,320 ordinance 165 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:00,960 citations that these things refer to 166 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:02,800 so 167 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:06,800 To the extent that I think that this could be enhanced 168 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,280 if each step 169 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:11,280 had a specific 170 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,840 Reference back to 171 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,800 an ordinance provision or uh 172 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,000 a um 173 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:25,280 Revision in the the the the plan of the statement of work or the 174 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:33,920 The the steps that we need to follow then I think that would make it easier for somebody who is not as familiar with us 175 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:40,560 To look at one of the blocks and say well, what does that mean they can go immediately to that section of the ordinance or the 176 00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:42,400 the uh 177 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:43,520 the rules 178 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:45,840 and and and see it so 179 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:49,760 That's 180 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:54,560 Bob I don't know if i'm piggybacking on you if that was your uh, uh 181 00:12:54,560 --> 00:12:59,280 That was your suggestion or or not but 182 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:05,200 Uh, i'm i'm referencing the actual citation in the ordinance or the or the rules 183 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:16,160 Yeah, i'm not unfamiliar with the flow charts, uh, and sometimes they they they can get confusing but 184 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,480 In terms of making it simple for the folks that don't 185 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:27,140 Deal with this stuff on a routine basis. I think that's key to uh having this thing be effective 186 00:13:27,140 --> 00:13:39,920 Yeah, I think referring back to the ordinance would be would that would be pretty easy to add wouldn't it madison to go in and add that 187 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,880 um, yes, would it 188 00:13:43,680 --> 00:13:50,080 Help or be more confusing when don was talking about, you know that other document. I know I I don't have it here with me 189 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:51,760 I know what he's talking about 190 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:53,760 um, would it be 191 00:13:53,760 --> 00:14:02,320 More confusing to add a reference to that or just keep it right straight to the ordinance like uh, ron was suggesting 192 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:04,000 and and bob 193 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:05,200 um 194 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:10,400 I haven't uh, I i think i'm aware of the document that don is referencing 195 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:14,800 Um, I haven't looked at it that it wasn't it didn't factor into creating this 196 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,600 um 197 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:24,080 So one thing we that I could do is take that and see if I how I could match it up to the flow charts 198 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:30,000 um, or create create something like a a written narrative like that 199 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,800 um document 200 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:34,880 That would match up to like 201 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,200 to the flow charts 202 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:42,560 So basically, you know the the first step is that the complainant submits 203 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:50,560 The complaint form the ethics complaint form, right? And so there would be a backup document that basically says number one 204 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:55,200 This happens and it has detail like that. So, um 205 00:14:55,200 --> 00:15:01,920 I i'm not sure exactly how the processing ethics complaint 101 document looks but basically 206 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,480 um 207 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:06,480 We could take create, you know 208 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:08,880 adjust that to uh 209 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:18,560 And add it basically to these flow charts so that it was like one kind of process packet, uh with the visuals and the narrative 210 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:22,000 Yeah, and what you have written, you know, it may be 211 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:30,480 That it enhances some of the little descriptions or whatever so and yeah, and we could even we could include 212 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:37,040 Um the references to the ordnance sections on the actual visual or we could include it in um, 213 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,360 that kind of narrative 214 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:41,520 and um 215 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:45,040 In I don't want to get off posting because we've separated the two items 216 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:49,760 But if we created a narrative document, we might not even need this other timeline document 217 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,320 If those timelines were in the narrative 218 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:58,720 So 219 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,600 But now I think the timeline document to me 220 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:06,240 makes makes more more sense than uh 221 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,120 the flow chart 222 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,680 both together and kind of 223 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:20,400 Reading them and working them together. It makes sense, but I still think that the 101 ethics complaint 101 that we already have 224 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:24,400 Is still simpler than than what we have here today 225 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:28,000 Or at least that format 226 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:31,440 Okay 227 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,400 As the first, uh 228 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:39,600 Document you're referring to solve the problem that we were trying to solve with this 229 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:45,600 To me it it does it's 21 steps and it's uh 230 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:52,800 Madison oh yeah, you didn't have that document. I was trying to think of 231 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:59,680 Yeah, this is page one of it that covers the first three steps. I'll just kind of open it up. Okay 232 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:05,120 I don't know how I can do it. Oh, that's good. We can see that. Thank you 233 00:17:05,120 --> 00:17:11,920 And it step one is the complaint must be submitted to the proper complaint form to the city auditor 234 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:15,040 The complaint must be hand delivered via us mail 235 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:20,960 That's one step one and the next it says the author has excuse me 236 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:26,480 The auditor has five business days to determine if the complainant is administrative complete and timely 237 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,280 And so it goes through each of those steps 238 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:34,160 Being 21 steps through the entire process 239 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,920 much like flow chart does but it 240 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:45,680 I guess there's just more more information in each of the blocks than what the flow chart has 241 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,880 It kind of oh well 242 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,000 I don't know 243 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,600 Yeah, I understand what you're saying. I feel like 244 00:17:55,600 --> 00:18:02,480 I first of all, I want to say I know madison has done a ton of work on this and she did a fabulous job 245 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:08,160 But I think anything we can do to make it very simple and very clear 246 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:14,480 Is great because it seems like we already put a lot of pressure on the complainant to 247 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:19,600 not only be the complainant, but maybe even the prosecutor and I 248 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:22,880 I don't know where that happens 249 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,640 So I I think making it simple would be great 250 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,600 um 251 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:36,080 Um, well and i'll just add, you know, I think part of the reason 252 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,760 Part of the reason I created the flow charts was 253 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:41,520 um 254 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:48,240 To have a visualization, right? So I think don I mean I I see what you're saying about the the 101 255 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,040 um document and I 256 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:56,800 I I agree that having that available. I don't think it's available to the public right now 257 00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:03,440 um, so I I certainly think we can make that available to the public just make sure that it still lines up with um, 258 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,480 The current ordinance because there have been revisions 259 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,120 um, uh 260 00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:14,480 And then but I I guess I what i'd like from the board is 261 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:23,120 One should we do that right go go through that revising maybe that process 101 just to make sure it still matches up 262 00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:25,280 And then publicize it 263 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:26,320 um 264 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:31,600 And then two does the board still believe that there should be some sort of visual like the flow chart? 265 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:37,360 To help people who you know, perhaps are better at visuals or any or something like that 266 00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:39,200 um 267 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,440 Should that still be there? And if if yes 268 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,680 We could even package those together, right? So you have the document 269 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:52,320 Processing a complaint 101. Um, but then we also have a visual 270 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,360 Uh, so that you could look at both 271 00:19:55,360 --> 00:19:58,160 together 272 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:02,640 That might be really good because like ron said if we have the flow chart that refers 273 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:09,360 But I mean, I think that 101 that don has you know, it it does refer back and give you a good analysis 274 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:13,200 And then if we do what ron said and add the here go to this ordinance 275 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:14,880 um 276 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:16,640 then that gives 277 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:18,640 You know right brain left brain 278 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:25,680 You know whichever direction that that where things sink in I mean i'm i'm a visual person but 279 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:30,320 But some people aren't so I think it would be good for citizens for 280 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:37,680 You know to make it easy i'm with aneta like make it as easy as possible and then they have two formats that they can use 281 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:40,960 To figure out which one they're more comfortable with 282 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:45,760 Because I feel like if somebody wants to file a complaint, they certainly want to understand 283 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,480 What all this what goes on? 284 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:49,440 so 285 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:51,440 yeah brent 286 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,960 I I agree. I think uh presenting 287 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:59,040 Um the information in as many ways possible to make it accessible 288 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:05,680 For me looking at the flow because I I worked with logic models for many years and so to see this 289 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:07,680 I would 290 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:12,400 Even reading it. I would start diagramming it myself just to figure out what the process was 291 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,880 and so I I 292 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:16,880 I like the idea of both 293 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:28,980 I've got a question. Who is the primary audience for the different documents? 294 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:36,720 Um 295 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:41,600 We've had city council people we've had political consultants 296 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,160 We've had political pundits 297 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:50,080 We've had just people off the street have been the ones that have filed a complaint so far 298 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:54,160 So it's it's almost as wide a variety as if you could possibly have 299 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,280 Yeah, that's a good point 300 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,320 Yeah, and I I think um 301 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:04,160 originally when I presented this I think the intention was to 302 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:11,360 Create some some document some documents that could be put on the board's web page city web page so that 303 00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:13,920 um 304 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:19,920 The process could be made, you know easier to understand than trying to go through the ordinance to understand it 305 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:26,240 Because they're on the web page. There was just the ethics complaint form at the time 306 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:33,680 But you know, I also think the board could certainly use it right it's not 307 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:36,560 You know not excluded from that 308 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:38,480 um 309 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:40,480 So that was kind of the intent the intention 310 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:46,000 I have another I guess comment 311 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:51,120 I was not able to attend the whole thing last time my my zoom crashed 312 00:22:51,120 --> 00:22:53,600 and 313 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,600 I didn't have the uh 314 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,560 The opportunity for the dialogue 315 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,360 But looking at the timeline 316 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:07,120 Uh, I find it a bit staggering that uh, it could take this process 317 00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:10,380 196 days 318 00:23:10,380 --> 00:23:12,800 and in terms of 319 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,360 Uh the concept of keeping things simple 320 00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:17,600 uh 321 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,120 to me that 322 00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:21,120 That's going in the opposite direction 323 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:32,800 I do think that that timeline would be important if someone files a complaint just before an election 324 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,800 and maybe the purpose of the complaint is to 325 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:42,560 Possibly throw an opponent off track in the middle of their election bid 326 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:49,680 So I would I would think that there would be times when we would need to slow walk it a little bit and at least 327 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,680 Wait for the election to be over 328 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:59,200 So that the the election the ethics process isn't causing problems for the candidate 329 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,240 Who at that point needs to focus on getting through their election? 330 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:06,900 But yeah, I think in general I would hope it would go as fast as possible 331 00:24:06,900 --> 00:24:16,420 I would ask what if the complaint had the ability to sway the election one way or the other? 332 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:24,640 Uh 333 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,600 Like that would be a good thing 334 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,080 I mean if if somebody was doing something 335 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:34,080 Unethical in their campaign and then that came out 336 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,760 That that might sway the election 337 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,360 Well that that would 338 00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:44,640 Then slow walking in that particular case would not be a good thing would it 339 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:50,160 No, and I don't think it would be good if the candidate wasn't doing anything wrong 340 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:52,720 It would definitely be worse 341 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:54,240 um 342 00:24:54,240 --> 00:25:01,920 You know because then we've distracted them and and made their election bid even more difficult while somebody just 343 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:08,160 Filed a complaint that was just political. So that's my concern is that when it's near an election 344 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:13,200 We need to be very very careful. Let the election take place and then once 345 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:19,840 Once the election has you know filtered out then hear the complaint 346 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:22,720 I think if 347 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:29,280 It was filed and we felt that it had a potential impact on the outcome of the election 348 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,920 if we 349 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:36,960 Fast walked it and got to a conclusion quickly and the person was exonerated 350 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:41,680 I think that they would be much happier than if we slow walked it and it 351 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:49,040 Um impacted them. I I hate to interrupt this conversation. I think we we might be off posting we I think um 352 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:51,280 if 353 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,760 If we want to have a discussion about 354 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,800 filing complaints 355 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,200 We can certainly put that on an agenda 356 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:03,360 I actually think that that's a good idea because I think 357 00:26:03,360 --> 00:26:11,040 My office is always going to try to process complaints as fast as possible because of the timelines and if we want to put 358 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:12,960 some sort of um 359 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,080 If we want to have a practice where we slow walk 360 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:20,880 or some or or fast walk something during election season, I think that should be like a um, 361 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:28,720 A a direction that directions that that is received from the whole board and potentially included in the um 362 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:34,720 So may I request that we put that on the next agenda? We can certainly do that. Okay 363 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:43,120 I had one more question. I couldn't find it. Um 364 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,600 Did we have a resolution when we were talking about 365 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,960 if the complainant doesn't show up to 366 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:58,800 Kind of prosecute the hearing that the hearing goes away. I know that proposal was made. Did we make a decision on that? 367 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,680 Because I don't recall a vote 368 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,240 That's in the ordinance 369 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:10,560 I believe the current ordinance that it's required for the complaint to appear. Um, wow 370 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:18,000 That's not been made clear, yeah that needs to be in the 371 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:26,400 Would there be any exceptions to that if a person were not able to be there 372 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:35,280 My understanding is that um, per the rules of procedure the complainant can request a delay essentially 373 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:40,480 And I believe we've had that occur in the past, um, because there there was a conflict or something 374 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,880 um 375 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:47,520 But I believe that can only have occur once i'm really just going off my memory here 376 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:54,240 But there is a process to where the complainant or the respondent or either I think can um 377 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,880 Request that the hearing be delayed 378 00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,280 for cause basically 379 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:10,320 What part of that and not to put you on the spot madison and I know we're going to do timelines in the next 380 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,520 um 381 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:14,960 Item 382 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,400 But where what you just said, where would that fall? 383 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,600 on the flow chart 384 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:27,040 Uh on the flow chart the request for delay 385 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:33,040 Yeah, I would say um 386 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:38,720 There's this the box at the top and then the second box under it 387 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:44,560 That kind of all happens in in that kind of period in between the hearing being scheduled 388 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:49,840 and um the hearing actually being conducted so I don't think 389 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:55,600 The delay piece is included specifically, but we can add that 390 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,440 Isn't it on there now where 391 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,160 It says when the complainant 392 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,200 Appears and presents the case 393 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:11,440 But if he doesn't you know, if there's no appearance the case is dismissed and that's on the flow chart, right? 394 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,480 I think we we have included the the 395 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:21,280 That the complainant must appear uh and present their case. That's that was added after last time 396 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,600 That was a great suggestion from from the board 397 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:29,600 But the ability for somebody to delay to request a delay in the hearing 398 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:35,440 Is not specifically on here, but I do think it would occur in that second 399 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:41,600 Middle box from the top basically is in the process that starts with receive submitted 400 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:46,160 Correct. So so we just added that after the last meeting 401 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:50,560 It was already in the ordinance. We just added it to the flow chart 402 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:58,000 To make that clear to I have I have a really big issue with that in our ordinance because I think 403 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:04,880 it is asking a citizen to file a complaint and to act as a prosecutor and I know that 404 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:12,080 I don't agree with it. But this board wants this to look as much like the role of law as possible 405 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:18,000 But I don't think that's a good thing. I I think that there should be some separation and someone else should be 406 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,420 Representing that case 407 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,440 Um, i've said it so i'll leave it at that 408 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:40,800 Would it be possible for the complainant to assign a surrogate if they didn't feel comfortable presenting the presenting the uh, 409 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,440 their complaint 410 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:50,080 Um, I don't I don't know that that's currently allowed under the ordinance. I i'd have to look trey. Do you have any idea? 411 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,960 I I also think talking about specific 412 00:30:53,820 --> 00:30:59,520 Specifically about that piece of the ordinance is is again trying to kind of getting off posting 413 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:03,600 We can put that on a on a future agenda as well 414 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:10,160 You know under hearing four it actually states that uh, 415 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:16,720 The complainant is required to testify at the hearing a complainant barrier to testify 416 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,800 At a hearing shall be ground for dismissal of the complaint 417 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,600 And that's that's the code 418 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,480 Does that happen in a court of law? 419 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:35,040 What if party doesn't show up yes, well if the complainant 420 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,840 I mean if there's a crime 421 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,440 um, there's somebody who files a complaint, but I 422 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:47,920 I don't know that they always have they don't have to present the case. They might testify 423 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:52,960 I'll just step in and say we're kind of we're we're getting off posting 424 00:31:53,600 --> 00:32:00,720 The postings to talk flowchart specific. Sorry, I I would like to go back at a future meeting, but 425 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:04,320 Could I ask that we consider that at a future meeting? 426 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:08,240 Is yes, or am I okay future agenda? 427 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:18,080 As it relates to that item, I think a little clarification might be required in order to make it an agenda item 428 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:26,080 Is one thing for the complainant to be required to testify is another thing for the complainant to have a representative that 429 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,240 Helps them present the case 430 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:32,240 So I think both can under the ordinance both can probably happen 431 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,340 simultaneously 432 00:32:35,340 --> 00:32:40,720 And that's and that's correct and under the ordinance it says both the complainant and the and the 433 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:45,840 Uh complaining has a right to be represented by council. So the respondent and the complaint 434 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:48,960 May be represented by council in the ordinance 435 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:56,480 And in a future meeting, uh, maybe discuss what if it's a whistleblower type complaint when they don't want to be revealed 436 00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:00,160 What do you do about that 437 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,720 If you don't have anything 438 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:08,560 I believe that there's a prohibition basically from keeping the complaint and its identity. Um a secret 439 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:14,720 But maybe they wouldn't be present they didn't feel comfortable being present 440 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:23,060 Have a surrogate I guess I would like to talk about that too like that's concerning 441 00:33:23,060 --> 00:33:32,320 Um, so I 442 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:37,920 Appreciate the conversation we're having I I do want to just make sure that we don't go too far off posting 443 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,240 um 444 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:41,600 it 445 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,800 I just i'll summarize kind of where I think we are on the flow charts 446 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:47,440 um, it seems like we 447 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:54,000 We want you're giving me direction to go back and take a look at the the processing ethics complaint 448 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:55,980 uh 101 449 00:33:55,980 --> 00:33:57,920 document to 450 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:02,960 See how it compares to our current version of the ordinance and make any necessary changes 451 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:04,640 um 452 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,200 To see how that aligns with the flow charts that we have 453 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,480 And then to bring that back kind of as a package 454 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:16,640 That when it was approved could then be put um on the board's webpage to 455 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:21,360 Help the public and and the board if when when needed, uh 456 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:26,720 Uh know understand the ethics ordinance, uh better 457 00:34:26,720 --> 00:34:35,360 I really like that packet idea and I will say I came on the board later and I never saw that 101 document 458 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:40,720 So maybe it was just an oversight, but i'm not seeing it. It sounds good 459 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:44,640 Okay 460 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,600 And i've got a request related to the packet 461 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:53,200 Uh when you put that together if you will for those of us with no brain rather right or left 462 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,760 Would you put a color? 463 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:57,920 uh on the part that you're 464 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,960 changing 465 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:06,560 So that I can look at and say oh that's different. Yes, I for the the 101 process 466 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:13,600 If there are changes that need to be made i'll i'll present a red line copy basically so that you can see what's what's been changed 467 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,640 Due to the updated ordinance 468 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:25,360 Then would it be appropriate to call the question because I definitely think that what we're talking about makes sense 469 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,840 Does that sound? 470 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:29,840 Good to everybody 471 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,960 To add those things to the agenda you mean 472 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:38,080 Well to to call the question and vote for the packet 473 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:43,920 I don't know that we actually need to vote it. It's like there's direction to come back 474 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,780 I don't agree with that. Um, unless trey you think differently 475 00:35:47,780 --> 00:35:51,280 No, no, there's not a 476 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:55,920 Something to call. I think it's just this is more direction oriented than anything else. Okay 477 00:35:55,920 --> 00:36:01,280 Yeah, and that's what the um is to give the staff direction on the notice. So 478 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:07,120 Anybody else have any more direction 479 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:16,080 Or you know great suggestions, yeah, I want to thank don for bringing that up because I think that's a good 480 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,880 a good thing to add 481 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,080 All right 482 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:28,640 And we uh, just as a point of order we didn't call technically call the two items together 483 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,960 So do you want to still call the second item and if there's any? 484 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:39,040 Um specific questions or thoughts about the the timeline document. Yes 485 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,840 Discuss the second one already 486 00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:47,120 And as a person, I don't know if there's anything else that someone needs to add to it 487 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:53,280 Yeah, i'll i'll just call it and then if anybody has something that we didn't just discuss 488 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:57,040 As to this document we can give those suggestions. So 489 00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:01,840 Um board of ethics 21-009 on the agenda 490 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:09,680 Receive a report hold a discussion and give staff direction regarding proposed ethics complaint process timelines 491 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,560 And so we've got the timeline document 492 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,200 And does anyone have anything? 493 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:23,360 Uh to add or comments or direction or anything for them with regard to this document that we didn't discuss 494 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,420 A moment ago in 21-008 495 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:34,560 I would request I think i'm still a little uh unclear about the direction on if 496 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:42,880 This should continue being a document I work on or if this is being replaced basically by the processing 101 497 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,360 ethics, um document 498 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:53,540 My feeling is it is a document that you can continue to work on or even blend into the 101 499 00:37:53,540 --> 00:37:57,440 Because to me 500 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,240 This document makes your blow chart work 501 00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:03,760 I mean it's me 502 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,280 I agree 503 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,160 I think being able to give a packet would be 504 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:16,080 very helpful to people because then they can read it different ways and understand better how to 505 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,920 Play by the rules basically 506 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:24,720 I've got a comment based on our earlier discussion of this thing 507 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:30,560 If we have the opportunity to slow walk or fast walk or whatever you want to call it 508 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,200 That needs to be referenced in there 509 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:39,120 I thought that was something we were maybe going to talk about at the next meeting maybe 510 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,840 Yes 511 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:43,840 What I heard? Yeah 512 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:53,440 Yes, I think what my response is our office always processes the complaints as quickly as possible to meet the deadlines that are set out in 513 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:54,640 the ordinance 514 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,440 um, if there's a a will on the board to 515 00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:03,600 uh have that process be different during election season, um 516 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,400 Then I would think that needs to be formally 517 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:08,960 decided and 518 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:14,160 Uh per annettas request, um, we're going to bring that back at a future meeting potentially the next meeting 519 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:19,280 Okay, we're still kind of just to so y'all know we're still kind of waiting on appointments to be completed 520 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,800 So that we have the the new board seated 521 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:26,640 So 522 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:35,520 All right, so I think that takes care of what's on the agenda, um tray is there anything else we need to do before I can 523 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,720 ask for a motion to adjourn or 524 00:39:38,720 --> 00:39:43,360 You don't even need a motion to adjourn if everybody's 525 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:49,120 I guess to the point of where the last agenda item is now over then you can 526 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:52,080 Conclude the meeting as we have finished all the items 527 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,160 Okay 528 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,160 All right. So the wait, sorry 529 00:39:56,160 --> 00:40:03,120 Sorry, i'm looking away. I'm so sorry, uh, one more point of order just uh, for the good of the order. Um, 530 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,600 the next meeting is is 531 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:13,760 Regularly scheduled meeting to occur on the last thursday of march like our normal meetings except for it will be at 10 a.m 532 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,480 instead of 3 p.m. We 533 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:21,920 Didn't we we just had to switch the times around for that one meeting. Um 534 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:24,720 so 535 00:40:24,720 --> 00:40:26,720 On the 25th 536 00:40:26,720 --> 00:40:29,120 I believe 537 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:35,440 Yes, the 25th of march. So, um, oh it's it's laura. We were just uh closing laura 538 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:43,200 But I was saying that the the next um board of ethic regularly scheduled board meeting 539 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,880 Is march 25th at 10 a.m. Instead of 3 p.m 540 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:51,920 Um, obviously we'll send out emails with the agenda and reminding everyone of that 541 00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:55,600 But just so you're aware 542 00:40:55,600 --> 00:41:02,640 Okay, sorry everyone, uh, I don't know if anybody's life has been up ended like mine has in the past week with 543 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:04,880 All of my plumbing not working 544 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:08,960 Uh, so I apologize for being late. Um, I guess whoever was 545 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:12,640 Chair can adjourn or I can adjourn if this is the end 546 00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:22,000 Um, and hopefully next week next month we'll get back on track to like actually, uh talking about a little more substantive things 547 00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:26,080 So, um, I guess if madison hasn't already said it, um send her anything 548 00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:33,840 Um, you want to talk about before then we already have some ideas, but um, whatever else so I guess with that i'll adjourn 549 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:37,040 After not being at the meeting 550 00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:40,080 I'm, sorry, your plumbing's not working. Oh, man 551 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:42,080 Ours isn't either 552 00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,960 Yeah, well old houses. Yeah. Yeah 553 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:51,440 Okay, um, all right, so I guess we adjourn now that i'm on 554 00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:53,540 - Yes, thank you. 555 00:41:53,540 --> 00:41:54,380 - Thank you. 556 00:41:54,380 --> 00:41:55,220 - Thank you.