1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:18,000 Welcome to the historic landmark Commission meeting today is January the 11th the time is 302 and our first order of business is to one determine we have a quorum which we do in the second order of business is to do the Pledge of Allegiance. 2 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,000 So where is our flag today. 3 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:26,000 We don't have to have one. Okay, well, we have a projection. 4 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:30,000 So I guess let's do our pledge anyway. Yes. 5 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:36,000 All right. 6 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:58,000 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 7 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:07,000 Honor the Texas flag. 8 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:08,000 Right. 9 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:09,000 Okay. 10 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:13,000 Happy New Year all. Happy New Year. 11 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:22,000 Welcome. I'm glad to see so many bright faces and for anybody that didn't hear Roy is not here today but I think he's having a little more fun. 12 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:28,000 We have the approval of the minutes to look at so. 13 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:35,000 Does anybody got any comments or corrections to the minutes. 14 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:45,000 If not, can I get a do we need a motion to approve. Yes, can I get a motion for a move to move to second. 15 00:01:45,000 --> 00:02:02,000 Second. Thanks, Katie. All right. All in favor. I. I. I. I. All right. The motion passes unanimously. We. Sure. Sure. If we can do a roll call that follows same president roll call. 16 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:11,000 Oh, similar to the city council where you call each member and have them. They want everybody to vote individually. Correct. Okay. Katie. 17 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:15,000 Aye. Yay. 18 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:16,000 Lenny McAdams. 19 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:17,000 Aye. 20 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,000 Angie stripling. 21 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:20,000 Aye. 22 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,000 Evan stone. Aye. 23 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,000 Let's see, Janelle cotton. 24 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:26,000 All right. 25 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:27,000 Mary Anderson. Aye. 26 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:32,000 Melody Melody right down below me Melody. 27 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:37,000 I can't hear you. You're, you're silenced. 28 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:42,000 You're muted Melody. 29 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:46,000 And so is Mac. 30 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,000 But Mac is he's listening. 31 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:52,000 I'm just here to support role for us. Yes, he's, he's up. 32 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,000 Melody, did you say aye. Yes. 33 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,000 Hi. Hi. Thank you. One. Thank you. 34 00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:01,000 Hi, are unanimous. I think we have a seven vote for you. 35 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:17,000 Correct. Okay. I think our first order of business after this is to hold a public meeting to consider an application for the certificate of appropriateness in accordance with section 2.9.2 of the Denton development code to install a patio cover. 36 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:33,000 We are now at 2234 Alamo place within the West Oak area historic district. The site is located on the Northeast corner of Thomas street and Alamo place. The COA is 20 dash 002122434 Alamo place patio cover. 37 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:37,000 Ron, do you have something for us? Yes. Thank you chair. Vice chair. 38 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:39,000 Yes. 39 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:47,000 I will pull up my presentation and hopefully you all can hear and see the presentation. 40 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:55,000 As mentioned in the introduction, this is for a proposed patio cover located proposed to be located at 2234 Alamo place. 41 00:03:55,000 --> 00:04:12,000 The subject property is located within the West Oak historic district as shown here and more specifically the property 2334 Alamo place is located again on the Northeast corner of Thomas street and Alamo place. 42 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:18,000 The current or the owner listed on the application is Richard Lempied. 43 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:30,000 The next few slides illustrate the proposed location of the property and the proposed location of the subject patio cover. 44 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:35,000 This shows it from the Northwest point of view. 45 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:55,000 This here illustrates it a little bit more closer. The patio cover will be located where the antenna is. The antenna dish is specifically over the patio or sliding door area so that is generally generally where the patio cover is proposed. 46 00:04:55,000 --> 00:05:07,000 This shows it a little bit more indirect as far as how it's related to the accessory dwelling unit or accessory detached garage that is to the north. 47 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:22,000 The patio cover will extend from the primary home towards the detached garage but is not going to be attached to the detached garage so it would be just attached to the primary building. 48 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:31,000 And again, a little bit more of view from the southwest corner side of the street. 49 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:44,000 The patio cover itself, as you can see and I apologize for the poor quality however you can see that the patio cover is approximately 264 square feet in area. 50 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:58,000 Again, it's attached to the primary structure, extending approximately, I think it was eight feet from the primary home again towards the existing detached garage. 51 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:15,000 And then it is visible from the street on Thomas Street. Initially, if it was to be along a interior lot and not visible from the street, a COA would not be required. However, because it is visible from the street. 52 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:23,000 It was staff's recommendation that this item be brought to the HLC for your consideration. 53 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:33,000 This here shows a little bit more of what is being proposed on an elevation view, similar to what you see to the bottom left here. 54 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:47,000 The patio cover will extend again from the exterior from the existing primary building, and it will extend to the rear. And you can see there, the proposed roof is metal. 55 00:06:47,000 --> 00:07:05,000 It will be steel as proposed by the applicant, and all other material used for the patio cover will be of wood, and any wood exposed will be stained with a dark walnut stain. 56 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:19,000 Staff did use the architectural requirements listed in section 496 C of the Denton Development Code in relationship to the following. And again, the main consideration. 57 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:36,000 That I will express or reference is related to roof forms, as the material and colors states that it must complement that is the style and overall color scheme of the structure. 58 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:49,000 It must be typical of the style and period of the main building, and the slope pitch, the degree of the direction, the slope pitch must be typical again of the period of the main building. 59 00:07:49,000 --> 00:08:03,000 With that, because of the material, the roof material being of metal, staff is recommending denial of the COA, again, primarily because of the roof material. 60 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:13,000 And that concludes my presentation. I will be happy to stand for any questions. 61 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:18,000 We did invite him and he is on the call. Yes. 62 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,000 Ron, can you hear me? We can hear you, Richard. 63 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:33,000 Okay, good. So, the metal roof is denied and I need to go, I have to use the shingles, is that correct? The composition shingles? 64 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:47,000 Richard, they haven't made that determination yet. This is an opportunity for you to let the Commission know what you're proposing and why you're proposing it to support your request. 65 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:54,000 Oh, okay, and they're listening right now. They are listening. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. They are listening and can hear you. 66 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,000 Okay. 67 00:08:56,000 --> 00:09:16,000 My reason for using the metal roof is, in my opinion, it will look better than the shingles, particularly when you're under the roof and you look up, you don't see exposed plywood and the nails going through the plywood. 68 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:33,000 Going through the plywood that hold the shingles on. It's a more decorative finish because you see the stained wood, all the wood under the roof is going to be a dark stain and then the metal will be on top of that. 69 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:42,000 It's just a more decorative look than plywood. 70 00:09:42,000 --> 00:10:00,000 I picked the metal roof material that has the more decorative with the grooves versus the corrugated metal look. I think that's more attractive than the other. 71 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:19,000 Also, I wanted to state that the roof won't be really seen from the street because of the angle on the roof. 72 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:36,000 After the fence is put up, I doubt that they'll be able to see the roof hardly at all. I mean, you almost have to be up very high in a semi truck to be able to see over the fence in order to see the roof, the top of the roof anyway. 73 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:47,000 I just wanted to make that comment. I imagine, you know, very far down the road, you might be able to see it, but there's an awful lot of trees in that area as well. 74 00:10:47,000 --> 00:11:10,000 So those are my comments. I'm just after a more decorative look from underneath and in my opinion, I like the look of the metal roof opposed to the shingles. It's hard to match the color on the shingles, given the age of the shingles as well. So those are my comments. 75 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:14,000 Does anyone have questions for the applicant or for Ron? 76 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:29,000 I'd like to ask a question. So you've drawn a shed roof that's, you know, like at a different pitch. I think that was one of the comments that Ron had put on, you know, like to make the shed roof work out with the correct head height and everything, you have to make it a different pitch than the existing roof. 77 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:43,000 But had you looked at doing just like a gable roof that like, you know, came in at perpendicular to the existing gable so you'd have another gable roof? Does that make sense to what I'm saying? 78 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:47,000 Yeah, I know what you're saying. 79 00:11:47,000 --> 00:12:00,000 Boy, that would be a bit more work than I wanted to put in. 80 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,000 I'm trying to picture it right now. 81 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:20,000 Because the angle would be facing the side of the garage, and you wouldn't see that pitch, that angle. To me that might look a little odd. But I understand what you're saying. 82 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:34,000 I was, I actually I'm not sure I understood, you know, did you mean it, the pitch to be? So like, if you look at this white house, it's got a pitch like this, that just runs the length and when you see that end from the street, this is called a gable end. 83 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:50,000 And a traditional, I have a triangle here. Like here's your traditional gable roof. You can bring another triangle, like, if you see like traditional roofs, they would have another triangle coming at a 45 degree. 84 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:59,000 I'll do a quick little piece of paper here. Nice to work at home, you can just have all your toys here. 85 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:12,000 So you'd have your other roof that came in like this, where they meet. That's kind of, you know, like, because one of the things Ron had said was like the slope had like, as according to code, you couldn't change slopes and things like that. 86 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:31,000 So, this would be the other, like if he did his roof, his back patio roof. 87 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:42,000 He would have another gable like that. So then his little back porch would be kind of like this, as opposed to right now where he's drawn like a shed. 88 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,000 Yeah, that would look nice. Angie, you had a question? 89 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,000 I did, mine is for Ron. 90 00:13:48,000 --> 00:14:08,000 When it comes to the tin roof not really being in part of our historic, you know, guidelines. It did mention also staining of the wood. And from my understanding, even in our guidelines there, we want it to be like with what might be already there. 91 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:28,000 The concern is not only the roof, but only, but also how they're going to that staining because I don't see any stain on the home for it to match to and I just thought maybe a paint, painting the color, the same color of the home would make it blend in better. 92 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:42,000 So my question to you is, would that also be a concern as far as our historic guidelines? That would be in terms of the visibility. I was looking at that. If there was a fence, it would not be visible. 93 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:59,000 I was more concerned with the roof pitch and the roof material specifically, but if that is a consistency that the HLC would like to, certainly that is one of the requirements that we could certainly request or part, be part of any motion. 94 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:20,000 Well, my question then is because of how that roof would come that metal roof, and if they're standing under that you would see it. And my second question is to they mentioned a fence on how high a fencing is because I know there's guidelines within codes for how high offenses. 95 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:36,000 And that staining does kind of bring up a would be would be visible. Yeah, okay, I hear you. Yeah, and I actually, I looked at your drawings and I have to admit that they're not really very intelligible to me I mean they're certainly not to scale. 96 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:52,000 What I'm most specifically thinking about was, it's on page 26 of the document it shows the little outbuilding, and then your roof and then it shows a three foot wide gully which looks to be most of your patio and so I can't get dimensions. 97 00:15:52,000 --> 00:16:04,000 And it looks like it's a long way from that garage, but I happen to drive by today just because I wanted to see and there's not that much space between the garage in the house, if you put in that so it's not at all to scale. 98 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:22,000 I think I'm having a hard time visualizing this because of lack of scale. And how high is that last post the exposed wood how high is that final one towards the garage, because unless you're building a 10 foot fence I'm likely to see the wood as as Angie has pointed out. 99 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:36,000 My comment to that is, you would see the wood from from the street the fence, probably would not would not cover the top of the wood. 100 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:51,000 The fence, the roof, the metal roof being on the angle that it would be. You wouldn't see much of the roof itself, you would see more of the, the word that's holding the roof up. 101 00:16:51,000 --> 00:17:01,000 Because that's like the side of the of the process that it that it would be built. 102 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:07,000 And, you know, is that post how high is the final post the shortest into the. 103 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:17,000 Yeah, the final post would probably be about eight feet high, which is higher than maybe, maybe a little bit, maybe a little bit more. 104 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:33,000 So, you know, given the parents I think the fence could go up to eight feet, I wasn't planning on putting it at eight feet I was going to stay more between six and seven feet. 105 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:49,000 Oh, I'm sorry, can I run Can I ask you a question and to kind of do you have a picture coming from the other direction going from north to south. I drove south to north on Alamo place towards on what is what's the street right there. 106 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,000 Thomas. 107 00:17:51,000 --> 00:18:04,000 Thomas. Yeah, I drove, I drove south to north but I said, as I recall there's a hill there. And as you're coming down from Thomas from the north side of the south I think a lot more roof is going to be exposed. 108 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:17,000 So do we have a picture of that that's one of the reasons we asked for pictures from all angles. Sure, let me let me see if I can, I thought you showed me one earlier that's why I wanted to write let me share my screen real quick, and 109 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:22,000 maybe I can pull it from the West. 110 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:26,000 This is from the West and, and, sorry. 111 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:30,000 This is the furthest. 112 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,000 Sorry, go back a little bit here. 113 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:41,000 There, right there. That's the furthest north that I took her cropped. 114 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:48,000 And you can see the pretty, I don't see a flat roof but it's, it's, there's a slope to it. 115 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,000 And this is you're just standing in the street right. 116 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:59,000 This is actually through Google Maps to be honest so yes I mean if you were taking it from the street. Yes, or even low actually because it's usually they use a little cars. 117 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:07,000 So I think from this angle you will, in fact, from the street, see the roof on here. 118 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:18,000 It was to add to Angie's comment to you, you're most likely will see some of the wood structure. 119 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:28,000 Now I'm almost certain that you will see the wood structure some of it. Yeah. 120 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,000 Okay. 121 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:39,000 So are there any other questions for the applicant, or for Ron. 122 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:44,000 I'm just wondering since 123 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:51,000 a different material type was required. 124 00:19:51,000 --> 00:20:20,000 Basically, why, why did you proceed with this request for the metal which was very likely to be denied, instead of choosing something that was more in line with the guidelines for the historical district. 125 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,000 Um, 126 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:44,000 to be honest, I thought that the metal roof was more of the older age, and it brought more of a rustic appearance to the overall, because that metal 127 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:48,000 was popular in the 30s. 128 00:20:48,000 --> 00:21:08,000 And, you know, many buildings back then were made out of that material. And I just, in my opinion, I thought that it would give a rustic look you know an older look of the overall property then, then the composition shingles, 129 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:27,000 it would add some decor to it some quaintness some antiquey looking thing I don't know the words, and I can't come up with all the words I'm thinking on but I think you get the gist of what I'm trying to say. 130 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:42,000 So Ron I have a question. If he changed all of his roof to metal. And that's probably an expensive proposition so Richard but, but I mean, so that that the conflict that you brought up that was the city code was the fact that it was two different materials 131 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:53,000 as opposed to being the primary building, and I'll just be open. Richard and I spoke late Friday afternoon about his proposal. 132 00:21:53,000 --> 00:22:10,000 And, and he, and again I'm not going to speak for Richard but obviously there there's there's hopefully an option if it's decided that the commission has any recommendations I think Richard is open to it but I'll let him speak to that. 133 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,000 Yeah, it has more to add. 134 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:25,000 Well, um, you know I stated on my drawings that the real purpose of what I'm doing is to prevent water from getting under the house. 135 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:42,000 I don't know if y'all caught that. So, if, if I can't use the metal will have to use the shingles. 136 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:56,000 Then, you know if I'm going to do it I just said oh it'd be great to, you know, put the metal. 137 00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:15,000 Um, Stroud Street, there were two properties on Stroud that have a very similar appearance and whatever just give you a real eye and I can look like. 138 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:26,000 Did you notice that you owned those go by. It wasn't under consideration for us. 139 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:34,000 Well, it would just, you know, I took pictures of it but I know pictures are hard to hard to see and tell. 140 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:42,000 The actual visual of the scene in person makes all the difference in the world. 141 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,000 And if you want, I can wait. 142 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:53,000 And if you guys take a look at it and then make the determination or whether or not that would look okay. 143 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:58,000 That'd be okay with me. Well, it really, I mean, 144 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:13,000 it really doesn't matter if it if we think it looks okay it's more does it follow the rules for the area, and it doesn't. 145 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,000 I'm afraid that is. 146 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,000 I have. 147 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,000 Melody, I have a question. 148 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:30,000 If the concern is the finish out on the underneath side of the, of the roof. 149 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:51,000 It sounds like adding a cover, an additional cover to cover the nails and to hide the nails. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, that would be a solution for that. 150 00:24:51,000 --> 00:25:02,000 Right, that would definitely be a solution and, you know, I was thinking, what, you know what I could put underneath there. 151 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:06,000 You know I could come up with something. 152 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:22,000 I mean if your real main concern though is water underneath, there are many approaches to keep water from being underneath the house I mean gutters are the primary thing that come to my mind and French drains, as opposed to a porch we all like porches 153 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:23,000 though. 154 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:39,000 I think in the interest of time I think that there's no more substantial discussion. Does someone want to make a motion, or do we want to close this, the public part run. 155 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:47,000 If there's no other public hearing or any other questions for the applicant, you can certainly close this portion. 156 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:59,000 The only other thing I would like to try to accomplish in this meeting is I presented three colors that I want to paint the outside of the house. 157 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:04,000 And I want to make sure that those are approved so that I can proceed with that. 158 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:25,000 This is Ron, those were not part of the HLC consideration as they are more administrative and so I can work with you on that that's not a item for this HLC HLC is primarily looking at the patio cover materials and architecture details of that patio cover. 159 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:35,000 Okay, I'm sorry I thought that that had to be approved as well the colors, the color of the stain I guess is the only color we would get out because we can see it. 160 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:41,000 If yes it's related to the patio cover yes, Vice Chair that's correct. 161 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:42,000 Okay. 162 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,000 All right, so I'm finished. 163 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,000 Thank you. Thank you very much for coming talking to us. 164 00:26:49,000 --> 00:27:01,000 Okay, can we close the public part of the meeting and can we go to discussion or should we ask for a motion before we discuss. 165 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:09,000 That's up to your discretion if you're ready to call for more discussion you can do the discussion before and or after the motion as well. 166 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:15,000 Should we do a little discussion now and then try to come up with a motion. 167 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,000 And then we haven't heard from you. 168 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,000 I'm going to go with Ron here. 169 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,000 So I'm ready to vote. 170 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:32,000 Hey everybody else ready for Okay, so we need a motion if we're going to vote to, you know, either to to think our choices are. 171 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:52,000 Let's see, we have four, we have four choices on here to accept to deny to to approve a submitted approve subject to conditions deny or continue. I'm not a big fan of continue I must say, sorry, deny the application as submitted. 172 00:27:52,000 --> 00:28:03,000 And Angie has got a second. Now we can open it up for discussion is there any discussion that anybody wants to make. 173 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,000 Everybody's ready. 174 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,000 All right, are we ready to vote them. 175 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,000 All right, so do we need to do this individually. 176 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:22,000 Yes, similar to the first item. Okay, I'm going to start on the other side just because I started on Lenny side before so can I start with Janelle Janelle. 177 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:26,000 You're in, you're in favor of denying right. Okay. 178 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,000 And then, Evan. 179 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,000 All right. All right, Angie. 180 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,000 Hi, Melody. 181 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:54,000 Lenny. Hi, Mary. Hi. So we have a unanimous decision to deny, and we certainly thank the applicant and then I would say encourage them to modify their plans, right, just to just let the applicant know that if they decide to change the plans, material and color of the 182 00:28:54,000 --> 00:29:09,000 structure post that's really can be brought forward to the HLC. Next month, if that's something he can want to do, and maybe a little bit more improved drawing might help people like me visualize better might help a little. 183 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:10,000 Sure. 184 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:26,000 Thank you. All right, so we finished that I think it's time to move on let me just find our next item of business I think our next item of business is just lots of pages here today. 185 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:43,000 So we're going to hold a public meeting to and consider an application for a certificate of appropriateness in accordance with section 2.92 2.9.2 of the Denton Development Code to convert an existing detached garage into an accessory dwelling unit structure 186 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:59,000 at 923 West Oak within the Oak history Hickory Historic District. The site is located on the south side of West Oak between Denton Street and Well Street. The COA is 20-0019 garage conversion. 187 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:13,000 Ron, do you have a presentation for us? Yes Vice Chair, I will pull up the presentation. 188 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:25,000 Again, hopefully you can hear me and hopefully you can see the presentation as introduced by the Vice Chair, it is for a garage conversion of an existing detached garage. 189 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:30,000 We are proposing to convert that garage into an accessory dwelling unit. 190 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:47,000 The proposed location of this property is within the Oak Hickory Historic District. And to be specific, it is located at 923 West Oak, south side of Oak again between Denton and Welch Street. 191 00:30:47,000 --> 00:31:06,000 This is a view of the home facing the front. Some of you may recognize this home. This was brought forward to the HLC for a consideration for tax incentive, as the applicant has provided some work to the home. 192 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:25,000 For the particular COA application being considered today, it is for the conversion of the detached garage. Again, the owner is Chris Galanos. It is also a local historic landmark, also known as the Radcliffe Schultz House. 193 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:52,000 The owner has provided or his contractor has provided a draft or floor plan that is of the conversion. You can see that the garage is being converted to occupy a kitchen area as well as a restroom area, and the remaining is living area for any occupant, for future occupants that is. 194 00:31:52,000 --> 00:32:07,000 The front garage door, and I will show on the next slide, will be removed and replaced with wood siding and the approximate location or square footage of the structure is approximately 216 square feet. 195 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:27,000 The front garage door, as circled in red to your left, that garage door will be removed as proposed and replaced with the wood siding similar to what's surrounding the garage currently so that same wood siding would be placed to replace that garage door. 196 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:48,000 The applicant or this application is brought forward to you, because in staff's opinion, the conversion will be visible from the street. Although, please note that the applicant has a gate that is on the west side of the home that when closed will not be visible. 197 00:32:48,000 --> 00:33:01,000 However, when the gate is open, the structure, the accessory dwelling in the future, or proposed accessory structure that is, will be visible if the gate is opened. 198 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:19,000 One of the things that staff looks at to ensure that the applicant, the property owner, would be compliant with all other requirements, we make sure that the structure, the proposed accessory dwelling structure that is, would be compliant with the parking requirements, 199 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:30,000 and the applicant has provided a site plan that illustrates where parking could be located within the site itself. 200 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:44,000 For analysis of a historic landmark designation, we refer to the Texas State, I'm sorry, not the Texas State, but rather the Secretary of Interior Standards for Treatments of Historic Properties. 201 00:33:44,000 --> 00:34:11,000 Those standards were provided in your backup, primarily related to preservation, rehabilitation, restoration, and reconstruction, as well as Section 494C of the Denton Development Code, as again this is within the Oak Hickory Historic District, there are architectural standards as it relates to the following categories. 202 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:37,000 With staff's analysis of the subject site, the staff is recommending approval of the conversion, as the details as well as the existing garage and future hopefully, if considered that is, by the edge you'll see an accessory dwelling unit does complement the single family primary home that's located there at 923 Oak Street. 203 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:46,000 With that, I'll stand for any questions. 204 00:34:46,000 --> 00:35:11,000 So who's got questions for Ron, is the applicant online? I believe so, I know that he was provided or we were provided his contact information, I am looking to verify if he is on the call. 205 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:16,000 While we wait, I can certainly answer any questions. 206 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,000 I have a question. Yeah, raise my hand. 207 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:28,000 So, they're going to remove the garage door and are they removing the trim as well around the garage door or are they just instilling between the trim? 208 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:47,000 My understanding is that it's all going to be removed and installed with the siding that is consistent to the other sides of that garage. So there will not be, I guess, trim around there. And again, that's something that we can verify with the applicant but that is my understanding. 209 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,000 That's true. 210 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:54,000 He's on the call. That is Chris, if you could introduce yourself. 211 00:35:54,000 --> 00:36:01,000 Yes. Hello, everybody. My name is Chris Galanis and I have the privilege of being neighbors with Mary. Hi, Mary. 212 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:05,000 And I'm surprised that you were planning this. 213 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:16,000 Yes. And so yes, to answer that question, Ron, yes, we would remove the trim as well and it would just be the siding across where the garage door is now. 214 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:29,000 But actually, Ron, allowed by code, I thought we were supposed to preserve all of the historical material and my understanding is removing that would not be preserving. In fact, it would be taking it away. 215 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:40,000 This is so looking at the standards that we have the materials themselves if it's replaced with a similar material, then the trim is not replaced with similar materials. 216 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:54,000 The trim. Okay, I did not look into the trim specifically but just deciding that would be replacing that match the house and so therefore, that's why staff recommended what we recommended. 217 00:36:54,000 --> 00:37:11,000 I have a picture of the final product of materials and things together. I may have missed it. 218 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:33,000 I'm not sure that you would be able to do that because you would be repurposing that trim. Again, mind my discussion with the applicant is that the windows would not be replacing where the garage door is and if I'll share my presentation and illustrate where those windows would be located. 219 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:49,000 To answer your question, Vice Chair Anderson, this is what's going to be replacing the garage door, the same siding material that is on the detached garage. 220 00:37:49,000 --> 00:38:09,000 And to answer your question, Angie, the windows are shown here. Windows one is facing the west side of the garage door which is above I believe the sink or right next to the sink and then one again on the west side over the, the toilet proposed toilet location. 221 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:27,000 The garage itself door is generally in this location which is facing north on the property. And again, this is what the applicant submitted as what they're proposing the proposed accessory dwelling unit will be and where the windows would be located. 222 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,000 What is this up here? 223 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:34,000 The mini split. Yeah, I couldn't figure out what that was. 224 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:40,000 That's the an air conditioning unit. Oh, thank you. I couldn't for the life of me see what that look and read it. 225 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,000 And what are these dots down the center. 226 00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:47,000 That shows the pitch of the roof. 227 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:58,000 The exist that the dash lines that's the existing picture that I know this these dash lines. Yes, that shows the existing picture the roof not those these the double dash. 228 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:07,000 Chris over the dash over toward the right side. Yeah, this this dash on if you can see my arrow but they're right here. 229 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:13,000 Chris Do you have the floor plan in front of you. Can you answer that question. 230 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:33,000 Yeah, Ron, I'm looking at it now. I'm not quite sure what that is. He may have just been when he was showing us this explaining, you know, something else in the diagram. That's not a wall or down or anything I in the single lines are like she said just the pitch of the roof. 231 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:44,000 The level line might show where that the drain lines from the sink in the toilet, perhaps underground might be that could be that could be that could be. Yeah, yeah. 232 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:49,000 Do we have any information about the window material. 233 00:39:49,000 --> 00:40:05,000 We do. I saw the picture the window but I didn't see. Oh, so yeah so Chris, they were provided a photo or the illustration of the window. Can you talk a bit about what the type of material, the windows will be. 234 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:27,000 Yes, it was. It was a pillow window. And you can see the dimensions there right above the toilet and above the kitchen sink. He's suggesting we put them there on the West wall one of the reasons we didn't put it where the garage door will be removed is that the bathroom right now in the floor plan, you know, so we didn't want a big window right there where the bathroom was. 235 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:56,000 Yes. So, we, I asked him to choose a window that would be similar to the main house, historically significant to match the style. And he sent me he gave me a picture of this pillow window and said that it could be and two materials, it could be either vinyl, which he said looks more like the main house or it could be would either one, and that's more narrow he said it looks less historical than the vinyl but he gave me, he gave us either option. 236 00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:03,000 Would be nice to have that in the material that we're considering. 237 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:17,000 In fact, I think is that not necessary to include that material on what's going on, if the commission would like to see the material be of a certain type, we're not really seeing that from the street but the neighbors might see it. 238 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:29,000 Right, that's the that's the other consideration, the focus that I wanted to present to HLC is that it is going to be visible from the street, the front portion of it, if again when that gate is open. 239 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:47,000 And just kind of a question had he considered just leaving the garage doors are kind of a interesting looking old historic garage door he considered just leaving those blocking them off and then you know he's obviously going to be putting some framing, and, you know, sheetrock on the inside. 240 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:52,000 So that from the outside it would still just look the same they just wouldn't be operable anymore. 241 00:41:52,000 --> 00:42:00,000 It would save you some money probably not to have to replace all your siding, but have you considered that. 242 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,000 Chris did you hear the question. 243 00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:07,000 Yes, sir I did know we hadn't, we hadn't considered that. 244 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:22,000 The garage door that's there now is newer, not in the garage itself as a structure I'm sure is quite old but the garage door I believe with the last remodel that was done five years ago was replaced. 245 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:38,000 Yeah, our plan was just to put siding there. Yeah, I was just like thinking that, like the look at it you know when when they share the picture that has the gate open from the street like I mean that that garage door especially if it's fairly newer only five years old it's 246 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:53,000 a lot of exterior material that you know like you could just caulk it from the inside and you know do some, you know, furring strips and sheetrock and on the inside you wouldn't know is there but on the outside and still have the same appearance. 247 00:42:53,000 --> 00:43:02,000 You might you might check with your contractor, what do you think about that, but exactly it does kind of change the character dramatically to remove the chairman and take away the door. 248 00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:16,000 I remember that house actually I toured that house when it was originally for sale before it was bought by you Chris before it was bought by Miss Adams, because I considered buying it way back at our house. 249 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,000 So I do remember the garage. 250 00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:29,000 As it looked and as I think the doors actually opened this way but that's what it looks like they matched with the doors like in that. 251 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:40,000 To answer your question, you know, as far as staff, we did have a long discussion on that garage door specifically but as far as keeping it. That was not one of our, our discussion. 252 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:46,000 We did talk about adding a window this and that but I think that's a great suggestion and it's friendly. 253 00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:53,000 Again just answer your question we did not discuss that as far as keeping it. 254 00:43:53,000 --> 00:44:10,000 Other comments in the room. I just have a question to Ron I mean, I guess it's a small enough structure, as per code normally I guess it looked like the window he has above the sink is a 3050 but it seems like very few windows for a dwelling. 255 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:24,000 You know, I know, usually like a sleeping unit you need at least like 13050 but so I guess this would meet qualifications because you've got a door but you also have the sink. 256 00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:45,000 It's a studio too so there's there's the access or ingress and windows are provided. And of course, anything that the HLC, you know, decides on. Ultimately, if it were to go through the building department would have to approve it for the building code. 257 00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:50,000 Yes, because at least when I consider an accessory dwelling on my property. 258 00:44:50,000 --> 00:45:10,000 It was pretty stringent for a dwelling unit garage had one distance to the fence line and the property lines, but a dwelling unit have a significantly longer, larger distance which I don't believe is met their survey looks a little bit old I'm kind of surprised that 259 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:14,000 people that live next door that are listed on that survey are not the same people. 260 00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:28,000 Buffy and her husband that don't own that anymore as far as interestingly I noted the person behind it is actually the guy we spoke to the owns the house behind is the guy who spoke to for our first COA, a small town. 261 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,000 It is a small town. 262 00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:37,000 Do we have any other questions for Ron or for Chris. 263 00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:49,000 I guess, otherwise, shall we close this discussion to a close the opening part of the meeting. Thank you Chris. 264 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,000 Thank you guys appreciate it. 265 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:59,000 Or do we have any other comments from outside. We do have one comment from outside. 266 00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:05,000 There was one person that was against there they had registered to go against us. 267 00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:09,000 Do you have a reasoning. 268 00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:14,000 The reason is why is they feel like there's not enough parking already on the street. 269 00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:23,000 They would like to keep the area kind of the same they don't feel that it will keep the area the same they feel like it's more of a realtor move for the future. 270 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:33,000 And really they just, they said the parking and just trying to keep it the same they feel like this is something that doesn't need to happen. 271 00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:38,000 Do we have the speaker is that we have a speaker was that just the comments from this. 272 00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:44,000 They had called in and they just said that they would like to leave a comment. Gotcha. Thank you. 273 00:46:44,000 --> 00:47:03,000 I do have a question on that run. Can you bring up the, where it has the driveway because even though they put how many cars they felt like parking there. It looked like it was single car getting by between the home and the fence right there where that 274 00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:19,000 state is, it is, and, and because of that I could see where the parking could be an issue because people would park on the street, instead of getting behind another person and that kind of thing so can you bring that up again so we could see that 275 00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,000 please sure let me. 276 00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:26,000 Let me pull that up real quick. Yes, I live with that every day. 277 00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:33,000 Three cars is more than is necessary in a line it's almost impossible to deal with. 278 00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:48,000 So, um, one of the things that we do look for and this is why it's shown here is really to address some of the concerns and I kind of anticipated some of these questions to illustrate where parking would be. 279 00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:59,000 But I do want to make note that the HLC. I know we're looking at the architectural requirements in some of the historic portions of it. 280 00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:05,000 Ultimately, the parking would have to be addressed to meet the requirements of the development code. 281 00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:09,000 But I just want to make that a note, so that when you're looking at this. 282 00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:16,000 It's not necessarily under the considerations that that I presented. 283 00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:21,000 I also add that there happens to be a house in my neighborhood. 284 00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:36,000 And that is exactly how the people who live there park, and they, you can't park on that particular street, and they all do line up, just exactly like this. 285 00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:42,000 Is this still where I can comment or is the open discussion already been closed. I believe it's been closed. 286 00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:44,000 Okay, I'm sorry. 287 00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:52,000 Can you bring up the picture of the actual dwelling with the. 288 00:48:52,000 --> 00:49:04,000 Let me pull that up as well. 289 00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:17,000 Is this the photo, your slide you're referring to Angie, oops, yes, that one. And then also the one that has the front of the garage, where you can see. 290 00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:23,000 It's a nice pretty summer picture when the trees are full of leaves. 291 00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:28,000 I don't think I've got any other than you do have one more. 292 00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:34,000 That one, that one right there. 293 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:38,000 Looks like their neighbor, their adjacent neighbor has a. 294 00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:47,000 Is that a garage apartment that the adjacent neighbor has or that behind them. That's that's on the next door neighbors, a lot it's actually currently not used. 295 00:49:47,000 --> 00:50:00,000 There's a garage in the shop. Yes, it's a two story guy dwelling in it, and they managed to have it grandfathered in right up to the fence so it is within inches of fence. 296 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:15,000 And so for wood structures I mean I'm not a fire marshal but it scares me. 297 00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:25,000 Are there other comments, do we have a motion I mean my only comments that I'm concerned about this changing the view at all we have a limited view of that. 298 00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:33,000 That driveway and the garage door, but it makes it look more garage like it doesn't change it. 299 00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:37,000 If the trim and the garage door stay. 300 00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:45,000 We can't see the windows from the streets of that. 301 00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:54,000 We discussed for us, but the view from the street is certainly in our preview. 302 00:50:54,000 --> 00:51:06,000 I'm having a little bit of trouble hearing Mary, I'm sorry I sat back a little bit too much. I mean, that might be the only concern that I can see that there's a couple of things that are a little deficient in this application. 303 00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:14,000 That the pictures are not really all there from all angles that that show us what's going to appear there. 304 00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:19,000 There's no rendering of that from that point of view. 305 00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:40,000 The other thing that is an issue for us is the changing of the garage door although the garage doors is modern it looks like what was there and having I see this every day, I, my house is right across the street. 306 00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:56,000 If Chris and Emily leave that will likely not be a mother-in-law suite it will likely be either a college student suite, or some kind of Airbnb type thing that I will look at for a long time. 307 00:51:56,000 --> 00:52:00,000 Is that not true of the one next door. 308 00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:05,000 No, it's empty it's totally unlivable it doesn't even have all the plumbing. 309 00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:10,000 There's no plumbing, and it's, it's there, it's a show. 310 00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:27,000 That can easily be changed. It would probably need an SEP to do that, just like this would need a what a specific use permit most likely even this one will need a specific use permit to do the dwelling on there we're just getting an HLC because it's, it's 311 00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:36,000 it's a suite on the thing, as I recall, planning and Sony said you had to have SEPs for this. 312 00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:45,000 And the cost is different. If you have it as a mother-in-law or as if you have it as just just to clarify that I just want to make note and Mary. Unfortunately, the, the code that was adopted in 2019. 313 00:52:45,000 --> 00:53:01,000 Was to approve a to use for single family homes, without an issue piece so, but they would need to comply with the building code so any conversion or any reusable building, especially for that's going to be used will need to comply with the building 314 00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:07,000 code and all other codes that we have in place. 315 00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:16,000 And it really, and it doesn't matter whether it's a relative living there are a non relative. No. 316 00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:25,000 Well, I think if I can interject real quick it's really the the architecture and the historicness of keeping that home. 317 00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:32,000 As it is obviously a local landmark designation and within the historic district as well. 318 00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:45,000 I would like to say I think that the concern for the person that wrote in about the parking. I think, I think we just we just need to discuss that because someone wrote in on it, but I believe there's adequate parking it showed that there. 319 00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:49,000 It may not be convenient, but we don't get to dictate that. 320 00:53:49,000 --> 00:54:06,000 So, I would just hate for someone not to think that we did not take their concern, but I don't think that that is part of this just that we need to vote on, but just for the record, I think it showed that there was adequate parking for it. 321 00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:23,000 And I think that there's some good ideas and I think when we have the option of we can, you know, we can approve we could deny or we can even do it with options or suggestions. And so that's kind of what I'm thinking I like the idea of keeping the garage door. 322 00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:39,000 I don't hear that anyone is subjected to what they're going to put in there and what they're using it for and I wish we could have a crystal ball to say you can do this down the road and camp, we can do that, you know, and so for what we have before us now. 323 00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:46,000 It looks like it's an alignment. And with those conditions I kind of would like it with the garage door in place. 324 00:54:46,000 --> 00:55:01,000 So sir anybody that is a more discussion or just one thing Mary Do you know if the garage door that's there now was like was it designed to look like the original garage door or I mean was it, I don't know that for a fact, although somebody in the 325 00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:07,000 neighborhood surely knows I know that it looks very similar to what was there. 326 00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:23,000 Lisa was was into trying to make things look similar. And I do remember the doors they were there were flimsy kind of doors but that was the kind of door of the period they were built in even though they don't open that way they look like they do open this way. 327 00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:30,000 Okay, thanks. 328 00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:38,000 Next question. 329 00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:43,000 I just just again want to mention and I think you've mentioned it before that your options. 330 00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:58,000 You know as far as the items so so our options are to accept as it is to accept with conditions to deny, or to continue to continuous means that we kind of ignored and if we don't deal with it and how many days wrong. 331 00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:07,000 75 days it's changed to 75 days, but we if we need to, it would be something we would schedule at our next meeting. 332 00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:15,000 So, does anybody have a motion to match one of those. 333 00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:18,000 Somebody was gonna say something melody. 334 00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:22,000 I was just gonna make a motion. Okay. 335 00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:30,000 I was gonna make a motion that we approve the request. 336 00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:34,000 As written. 337 00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:35,000 Yes. 338 00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:57,000 Is there a second. 339 00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:04,000 I would. I don't want a second. Can we approve it with a condition that they explore the option of the brought you know, maintaining the garage door and just framing from the inside. 340 00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:07,000 I can amend it but yet. 341 00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:13,000 I think if we amend it we have to have a second before we can amend it or do we just have a friendly amendment added to it. 342 00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:18,000 There's a there's a main motion, and it doesn't. 343 00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:23,000 For lack of second and then you could have a new motion. Okay, or someone could propose. 344 00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:34,000 A second, an amendment after it's has a second. So those are the two options either it fails for lack of second, or it gets a second to then you could do amendments to that motion. 345 00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:41,000 All right, so is there a second or do we want to have to have a new motion. 346 00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:44,000 I'll do a five minute count five second countdown. 347 00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:56,000 Five, four, three, two, one. Okay, the emotion that Lenny has put forward has failed as somebody wants to put forward a second. 348 00:57:56,000 --> 00:58:10,000 conditional acceptance regarding the garage door. Evan wants to do. Let me see if I can rephrase that Evan moves that we should do a conditional acceptance which is the part B, given that the garage door facade should stay as it is. 349 00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:24,000 Did I got that correct. Yes, I didn't quite hear the last what did you say, the garage door does what that the garage door doesn't change that it maintains that work of garages that did I paraphrase you correctly. 350 00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:27,000 Or do you want to use that's correct. 351 00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:29,000 I'll second that. 352 00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:34,000 Okay, five seconds. Now can we have any discussion. 353 00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:40,000 Then does that mean that he can still replace the front. 354 00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:53,000 But just with that design, or he must he keep the door itself. 355 00:58:53,000 --> 00:59:13,000 That was my understanding was to keep the same garage door, that was my understanding, but if I'm correct, please correct me. 356 00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:26,000 Was, was your motion to approve with condition that the existing garage door remain the same, or was it to have separate the same to that can't hear you. 357 00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:31,000 Either that it remained the same or looks substantially similar to the way it looks now. 358 00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:37,000 So can, can we do a. I have a discussion question with that. Yes. 359 00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:43,000 Do we know if that garage door is wood or metal. 360 00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:45,000 Probably metal. 361 00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:52,000 Do we, we probably vinyl or even, I'm guessing this vinyl it's probably neither of the above. 362 00:59:52,000 --> 01:00:02,000 We we don't I don't know, we can certainly ask the, the applicant if that's something that the commission would like to do. Yeah, because I think Lenny brings up a very good point. 363 01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:07,000 Because the original door was probably would it was originally. 364 01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:14,000 And so now if we've gone to vinyl and we're saying hey you have to keep vinyl. 365 01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:21,000 Does anybody want to make a friendly amendment to the, to the motion. 366 01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:29,000 See, I think if what we're after is the look that can be done easily with wood. 367 01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:32,000 I don't know what he's getting me a little crazy. 368 01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:47,000 I think the suggestion was, you know, like I, I think he needs to discuss with his contractor. I mean, I would, if that was me and if it was my home, I would just keep the existing door that's there rather than spend money to try and match something to 369 01:00:47,000 --> 01:01:00,000 look like it just keep the existing door and look at securing it and you know waterproofing it, and then frame from the inside, I mean I think that would be that he's going to have to probably put some framing up on the interior of the entire piece anyway in 370 01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:10,000 order to put this, you know, installation and sheetrock so it would just be a matter of securing and waterproofing the existing the word that is there. 371 01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:21,000 And, you know, so I would think it would, it would be a waste of time to like try and recreate something new, like to maybe make it look like what's already there even though that's not the original door. 372 01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:29,000 That might be easier actually than trying to retrofit on the inside of that door with sheetrock and all. 373 01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:41,000 They have to do that whether they whether they put the siding on the building or whatever if they take the door out, then they have to cut out that you know they're going to have to frame in where there's going to be an empty opening they'll have to come back and they have to put new framing 374 01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:54,000 in on the inside and outside then they're going to have to waterproof and put sheathing on the outside and then put the, you know, the swaps up and then they have to go on the inside and put sheetrock so they have to do that whether they take the door out or not. 375 01:01:54,000 --> 01:02:07,000 If they take the door in place, what they would do is just kind of, you know, nail it in, secure it in, and they're still going to have to frame that opening and put sheetrock and insulation, so that it can be an interior space as a bathroom because then 376 01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:15,000 they'll probably also put, you know, tile or some type of waterproof material to make it a bathroom. 377 01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:26,000 So, that's what I was just suggesting because that, you know, that maintains the, the look that they, you know, like, it looks like it was a garage, it doesn't really matter whether it is a garage or not anymore. 378 01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:40,000 A lot of those detached garages are not used as a garage that they still look like one, you know, and I, as opposed to just having the garage completely gone and then it just looks like you know that you would just have siding that matched the house, and then 379 01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:51,000 it just looks like a box with a door in it in the backyard. So, that was just my suggestion to keep it visually from the front, looking like it looks right now. 380 01:02:51,000 --> 01:03:06,000 I mean, my desire would be that it looks the same whether or not the same garage doors there doesn't matter, it just looks like, like that, substantially similar so I wonder if we make that caveat, do I need to make a friendly amendment to that? 381 01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:21,000 I mean, I just said keep the door and that means they're stuck with it. If you if you would like to begin the motion motioner and then Mac, if I'm speaking out of turn please let me know if the motioner would like to restate his motion with the condition, 382 01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:26,000 that would help, help us understand what's being voted on. Right. 383 01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:45,000 Sure. I move and this, I want to thank Janelle for the idea in the first place. I move to conditionally accept the application, and the condition being that the garage door remain or at least the look of the garage door remain. 384 01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:47,000 Second that. 385 01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:50,000 We don't have this, we've already got a second though right? 386 01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:56,000 Go ahead and get a second for that. 387 01:03:56,000 --> 01:04:02,000 Okay. So any more discussion or are we ready to vote? 388 01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:10,000 Hearing no discussion, can I call for a vote? I'll start down with Evan since we know you're the motioner I'll start with you. 389 01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:16,000 I vote for the amendment to keep the look of the garage the same melody. 390 01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:20,000 Angie. 391 01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:31,000 Lenny. And it was, if I understand it is a look, so he doesn't have to keep that garage door. If it's better to do it in the correct material if you change it. 392 01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:34,000 Aye. I say aye. 393 01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:36,000 Aye. 394 01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:41,000 Okay, we are unanimous, I can stand that. 395 01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:46,000 Thank you. 396 01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:48,000 Thank you all. 397 01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:51,000 Do we have. 398 01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:54,000 Just trying to think if we have any other. 399 01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:57,000 I don't see any other business. 400 01:04:57,000 --> 01:05:01,000 That's all that we have as far as consideration or agenda items. 401 01:05:01,000 --> 01:05:04,000 There is the concluding items though if you have any. 402 01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:07,000 Do we have, I didn't see any. 403 01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:10,000 Let's see. 404 01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:12,000 It's not on my page. 405 01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:14,000 I have page 44 so I've missed that. 406 01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:17,000 If you go, if you go, I'm sorry, go up to the agenda. 407 01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:23,000 Oh, sorry. 408 01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:27,000 Let's see, here we go. 409 01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:30,000 Our concluding items section A. 410 01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:31,000 Correct. 411 01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:41,000 Let's see that under section 551.042. 412 01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:51,000 Texas open meetings act's response to inquiries from historical landmark commission or the public with specific factual information or recitation policy or accept your proposal take place. 413 01:05:51,000 --> 01:06:07,000 Let's look at section 551.5 of the Texas open meetings act provide reports about the items of community interests regarding which no action will be taken to include expression of thanks, congratulations, condolences, information regarding holiday schedules, an honorary or solitary recognition. 414 01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:35,000 If there is an individual, public employee or other citizen or reminder about an upcoming event organized or sponsored by the governing body, information regarding the social, ceremonial or community event organized or sponsored by any entity other than the governing board that was intended or is scheduled to be attended by a member of the governing body or an official or employee of the municipality or an announcement involving an imminent threat to the public health and safety of people in the municipality that has arisen after posting of the agenda. 415 01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:50,000 The historical landmark committee commission reserved the right to adjourn into the closed meeting on any item on its open meeting agenda consists of chapter 551 of the Texas government code as amended or is allowed by law. 416 01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:52,000 And do we have any other additions to this? 417 01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:54,000 Did you have announcements? 418 01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:57,000 I do have one announcement if the commission does not have. 419 01:06:57,000 --> 01:07:03,000 I just want to let the commission know that the city has hired a historic preservation officer. 420 01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:06,000 She will start in February, first part of February. 421 01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:09,000 So we do have a meeting in February. 422 01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:11,000 We'll certainly introduce her. 423 01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:21,000 If not, we'll certainly send out some some notification or information about her so that you all know and get to get to know her before her first meeting. 424 01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:26,000 So I just want to make that announcement that we did hire an HPO. 425 01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:33,000 Any other business, new business, old business, new business. 426 01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:37,000 If not, can I have a. 427 01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:42,000 I don't think we don't need a motion now. 428 01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:44,000 When is our next meeting? 429 01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:46,000 February. 430 01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:51,000 It's second Monday, first Monday. 431 01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:53,000 February the 8th. 432 01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:56,000 That is correct, February 8th. 433 01:07:56,000 --> 01:07:59,000 Well, you'll be you'll be real safe out there. 434 01:07:59,000 --> 01:08:00,000 Yes. 435 01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:01,000 Thank you. 436 01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:04,000 We'll see everyone in February, hopefully. 437 01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:05,000 Bye.