Jan 11, 2021 Historic Landmark Commission on 2021-01-11 3:00 PM

Welcome to the historic landmark Commission meeting today is January the 11th the time is 302 and our first order of business is to one determine we have a quorum which we do in the second order of business is to do the Pledge of Allegiance. So where is our flag today. We don't have to have one. Okay, well, we have a projection. So I guess let's do our pledge anyway. Yes. All right. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Honor the Texas flag. Right. Okay. Happy New Year all. Happy New Year. Welcome. I'm glad to see so many bright faces and for anybody that didn't hear Roy is not here today but I think he's having a little more fun. We have the approval of the minutes to look at so. Does anybody got any comments or corrections to the minutes. If not, can I get a do we need a motion to approve. Yes, can I get a motion for a move to move to second. Second. Thanks, Katie. All right. All in favor. I. I. I. I. All right. The motion passes unanimously. We. Sure. Sure. If we can do a roll call that follows same president roll call. Oh, similar to the city council where you call each member and have them. They want everybody to vote individually. Correct. Okay. Katie. Aye. Yay. Lenny McAdams. Aye. Angie stripling. Aye. Evan stone. Aye. Let's see, Janelle cotton. All right. Mary Anderson. Aye. Melody Melody right down below me Melody. I can't hear you. You're, you're silenced. You're muted Melody. And so is Mac. But Mac is he's listening. I'm just here to support role for us. Yes, he's, he's up. Melody, did you say aye. Yes. Hi. Hi. Thank you. One. Thank you. Hi, are unanimous. I think we have a seven vote for you. Correct. Okay. I think our first order of business after this is to hold a public meeting to consider an application for the certificate of appropriateness in accordance with section 2.9.2 of the Denton development code to install a patio cover. We are now at 2234 Alamo place within the West Oak area historic district. The site is located on the Northeast corner of Thomas street and Alamo place. The COA is 20 dash 002122434 Alamo place patio cover. Ron, do you have something for us? Yes. Thank you chair. Vice chair. Yes. I will pull up my presentation and hopefully you all can hear and see the presentation. As mentioned in the introduction, this is for a proposed patio cover located proposed to be located at 2234 Alamo place. The subject property is located within the West Oak historic district as shown here and more specifically the property 2334 Alamo place is located again on the Northeast corner of Thomas street and Alamo place. The current or the owner listed on the application is Richard Lempied. The next few slides illustrate the proposed location of the property and the proposed location of the subject patio cover. This shows it from the Northwest point of view. This here illustrates it a little bit more closer. The patio cover will be located where the antenna is. The antenna dish is specifically over the patio or sliding door area so that is generally generally where the patio cover is proposed. This shows it a little bit more indirect as far as how it's related to the accessory dwelling unit or accessory detached garage that is to the north. The patio cover will extend from the primary home towards the detached garage but is not going to be attached to the detached garage so it would be just attached to the primary building. And again, a little bit more of view from the southwest corner side of the street. The patio cover itself, as you can see and I apologize for the poor quality however you can see that the patio cover is approximately 264 square feet in area. Again, it's attached to the primary structure, extending approximately, I think it was eight feet from the primary home again towards the existing detached garage. And then it is visible from the street on Thomas Street. Initially, if it was to be along a interior lot and not visible from the street, a COA would not be required. However, because it is visible from the street. It was staff's recommendation that this item be brought to the HLC for your consideration. This here shows a little bit more of what is being proposed on an elevation view, similar to what you see to the bottom left here. The patio cover will extend again from the exterior from the existing primary building, and it will extend to the rear. And you can see there, the proposed roof is metal. It will be steel as proposed by the applicant, and all other material used for the patio cover will be of wood, and any wood exposed will be stained with a dark walnut stain. Staff did use the architectural requirements listed in section 496 C of the Denton Development Code in relationship to the following. And again, the main consideration. That I will express or reference is related to roof forms, as the material and colors states that it must complement that is the style and overall color scheme of the structure. It must be typical of the style and period of the main building, and the slope pitch, the degree of the direction, the slope pitch must be typical again of the period of the main building. With that, because of the material, the roof material being of metal, staff is recommending denial of the COA, again, primarily because of the roof material. And that concludes my presentation. I will be happy to stand for any questions. We did invite him and he is on the call. Yes. Ron, can you hear me? We can hear you, Richard. Okay, good. So, the metal roof is denied and I need to go, I have to use the shingles, is that correct? The composition shingles? Richard, they haven't made that determination yet. This is an opportunity for you to let the Commission know what you're proposing and why you're proposing it to support your request. Oh, okay, and they're listening right now. They are listening. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. They are listening and can hear you. Okay. My reason for using the metal roof is, in my opinion, it will look better than the shingles, particularly when you're under the roof and you look up, you don't see exposed plywood and the nails going through the plywood. Going through the plywood that hold the shingles on. It's a more decorative finish because you see the stained wood, all the wood under the roof is going to be a dark stain and then the metal will be on top of that. It's just a more decorative look than plywood. I picked the metal roof material that has the more decorative with the grooves versus the corrugated metal look. I think that's more attractive than the other. Also, I wanted to state that the roof won't be really seen from the street because of the angle on the roof. After the fence is put up, I doubt that they'll be able to see the roof hardly at all. I mean, you almost have to be up very high in a semi truck to be able to see over the fence in order to see the roof, the top of the roof anyway. I just wanted to make that comment. I imagine, you know, very far down the road, you might be able to see it, but there's an awful lot of trees in that area as well. So those are my comments. I'm just after a more decorative look from underneath and in my opinion, I like the look of the metal roof opposed to the shingles. It's hard to match the color on the shingles, given the age of the shingles as well. So those are my comments. Does anyone have questions for the applicant or for Ron? I'd like to ask a question. So you've drawn a shed roof that's, you know, like at a different pitch. I think that was one of the comments that Ron had put on, you know, like to make the shed roof work out with the correct head height and everything, you have to make it a different pitch than the existing roof. But had you looked at doing just like a gable roof that like, you know, came in at perpendicular to the existing gable so you'd have another gable roof? Does that make sense to what I'm saying? Yeah, I know what you're saying. Boy, that would be a bit more work than I wanted to put in. I'm trying to picture it right now. Because the angle would be facing the side of the garage, and you wouldn't see that pitch, that angle. To me that might look a little odd. But I understand what you're saying. I was, I actually I'm not sure I understood, you know, did you mean it, the pitch to be? So like, if you look at this white house, it's got a pitch like this, that just runs the length and when you see that end from the street, this is called a gable end. And a traditional, I have a triangle here. Like here's your traditional gable roof. You can bring another triangle, like, if you see like traditional roofs, they would have another triangle coming at a 45 degree. I'll do a quick little piece of paper here. Nice to work at home, you can just have all your toys here. So you'd have your other roof that came in like this, where they meet. That's kind of, you know, like, because one of the things Ron had said was like the slope had like, as according to code, you couldn't change slopes and things like that. So, this would be the other, like if he did his roof, his back patio roof. He would have another gable like that. So then his little back porch would be kind of like this, as opposed to right now where he's drawn like a shed. Yeah, that would look nice. Angie, you had a question? I did, mine is for Ron. When it comes to the tin roof not really being in part of our historic, you know, guidelines. It did mention also staining of the wood. And from my understanding, even in our guidelines there, we want it to be like with what might be already there. The concern is not only the roof, but only, but also how they're going to that staining because I don't see any stain on the home for it to match to and I just thought maybe a paint, painting the color, the same color of the home would make it blend in better. So my question to you is, would that also be a concern as far as our historic guidelines? That would be in terms of the visibility. I was looking at that. If there was a fence, it would not be visible. I was more concerned with the roof pitch and the roof material specifically, but if that is a consistency that the HLC would like to, certainly that is one of the requirements that we could certainly request or part, be part of any motion. Well, my question then is because of how that roof would come that metal roof, and if they're standing under that you would see it. And my second question is to they mentioned a fence on how high a fencing is because I know there's guidelines within codes for how high offenses. And that staining does kind of bring up a would be would be visible. Yeah, okay, I hear you. Yeah, and I actually, I looked at your drawings and I have to admit that they're not really very intelligible to me I mean they're certainly not to scale. What I'm most specifically thinking about was, it's on page 26 of the document it shows the little outbuilding, and then your roof and then it shows a three foot wide gully which looks to be most of your patio and so I can't get dimensions. And it looks like it's a long way from that garage, but I happen to drive by today just because I wanted to see and there's not that much space between the garage in the house, if you put in that so it's not at all to scale. I think I'm having a hard time visualizing this because of lack of scale. And how high is that last post the exposed wood how high is that final one towards the garage, because unless you're building a 10 foot fence I'm likely to see the wood as as Angie has pointed out. My comment to that is, you would see the wood from from the street the fence, probably would not would not cover the top of the wood. The fence, the roof, the metal roof being on the angle that it would be. You wouldn't see much of the roof itself, you would see more of the, the word that's holding the roof up. Because that's like the side of the of the process that it that it would be built. And, you know, is that post how high is the final post the shortest into the. Yeah, the final post would probably be about eight feet high, which is higher than maybe, maybe a little bit, maybe a little bit more. So, you know, given the parents I think the fence could go up to eight feet, I wasn't planning on putting it at eight feet I was going to stay more between six and seven feet. Oh, I'm sorry, can I run Can I ask you a question and to kind of do you have a picture coming from the other direction going from north to south. I drove south to north on Alamo place towards on what is what's the street right there. Thomas. Thomas. Yeah, I drove, I drove south to north but I said, as I recall there's a hill there. And as you're coming down from Thomas from the north side of the south I think a lot more roof is going to be exposed. So do we have a picture of that that's one of the reasons we asked for pictures from all angles. Sure, let me let me see if I can, I thought you showed me one earlier that's why I wanted to write let me share my screen real quick, and maybe I can pull it from the West. This is from the West and, and, sorry. This is the furthest. Sorry, go back a little bit here. There, right there. That's the furthest north that I took her cropped. And you can see the pretty, I don't see a flat roof but it's, it's, there's a slope to it. And this is you're just standing in the street right. This is actually through Google Maps to be honest so yes I mean if you were taking it from the street. Yes, or even low actually because it's usually they use a little cars. So I think from this angle you will, in fact, from the street, see the roof on here. It was to add to Angie's comment to you, you're most likely will see some of the wood structure. Now I'm almost certain that you will see the wood structure some of it. Yeah. Okay. So are there any other questions for the applicant, or for Ron. I'm just wondering since a different material type was required. Basically, why, why did you proceed with this request for the metal which was very likely to be denied, instead of choosing something that was more in line with the guidelines for the historical district. Um, to be honest, I thought that the metal roof was more of the older age, and it brought more of a rustic appearance to the overall, because that metal was popular in the 30s. And, you know, many buildings back then were made out of that material. And I just, in my opinion, I thought that it would give a rustic look you know an older look of the overall property then, then the composition shingles, it would add some decor to it some quaintness some antiquey looking thing I don't know the words, and I can't come up with all the words I'm thinking on but I think you get the gist of what I'm trying to say. So Ron I have a question. If he changed all of his roof to metal. And that's probably an expensive proposition so Richard but, but I mean, so that that the conflict that you brought up that was the city code was the fact that it was two different materials as opposed to being the primary building, and I'll just be open. Richard and I spoke late Friday afternoon about his proposal. And, and he, and again I'm not going to speak for Richard but obviously there there's there's hopefully an option if it's decided that the commission has any recommendations I think Richard is open to it but I'll let him speak to that. Yeah, it has more to add. Well, um, you know I stated on my drawings that the real purpose of what I'm doing is to prevent water from getting under the house. I don't know if y'all caught that. So, if, if I can't use the metal will have to use the shingles. Then, you know if I'm going to do it I just said oh it'd be great to, you know, put the metal. Um, Stroud Street, there were two properties on Stroud that have a very similar appearance and whatever just give you a real eye and I can look like. Did you notice that you owned those go by. It wasn't under consideration for us. Well, it would just, you know, I took pictures of it but I know pictures are hard to hard to see and tell. The actual visual of the scene in person makes all the difference in the world. And if you want, I can wait. And if you guys take a look at it and then make the determination or whether or not that would look okay. That'd be okay with me. Well, it really, I mean, it really doesn't matter if it if we think it looks okay it's more does it follow the rules for the area, and it doesn't. I'm afraid that is. I have. Melody, I have a question. If the concern is the finish out on the underneath side of the, of the roof. It sounds like adding a cover, an additional cover to cover the nails and to hide the nails. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, that would be a solution for that. Right, that would definitely be a solution and, you know, I was thinking, what, you know what I could put underneath there. You know I could come up with something. I mean if your real main concern though is water underneath, there are many approaches to keep water from being underneath the house I mean gutters are the primary thing that come to my mind and French drains, as opposed to a porch we all like porches though. I think in the interest of time I think that there's no more substantial discussion. Does someone want to make a motion, or do we want to close this, the public part run. If there's no other public hearing or any other questions for the applicant, you can certainly close this portion. The only other thing I would like to try to accomplish in this meeting is I presented three colors that I want to paint the outside of the house. And I want to make sure that those are approved so that I can proceed with that. This is Ron, those were not part of the HLC consideration as they are more administrative and so I can work with you on that that's not a item for this HLC HLC is primarily looking at the patio cover materials and architecture details of that patio cover. Okay, I'm sorry I thought that that had to be approved as well the colors, the color of the stain I guess is the only color we would get out because we can see it. If yes it's related to the patio cover yes, Vice Chair that's correct. Okay. All right, so I'm finished. Thank you. Thank you very much for coming talking to us. Okay, can we close the public part of the meeting and can we go to discussion or should we ask for a motion before we discuss. That's up to your discretion if you're ready to call for more discussion you can do the discussion before and or after the motion as well. Should we do a little discussion now and then try to come up with a motion. And then we haven't heard from you. I'm going to go with Ron here. So I'm ready to vote. Hey everybody else ready for Okay, so we need a motion if we're going to vote to, you know, either to to think our choices are. Let's see, we have four, we have four choices on here to accept to deny to to approve a submitted approve subject to conditions deny or continue. I'm not a big fan of continue I must say, sorry, deny the application as submitted. And Angie has got a second. Now we can open it up for discussion is there any discussion that anybody wants to make. Everybody's ready. All right, are we ready to vote them. All right, so do we need to do this individually. Yes, similar to the first item. Okay, I'm going to start on the other side just because I started on Lenny side before so can I start with Janelle Janelle. You're in, you're in favor of denying right. Okay. And then, Evan. All right. All right, Angie. Hi, Melody. Lenny. Hi, Mary. Hi. So we have a unanimous decision to deny, and we certainly thank the applicant and then I would say encourage them to modify their plans, right, just to just let the applicant know that if they decide to change the plans, material and color of the structure post that's really can be brought forward to the HLC. Next month, if that's something he can want to do, and maybe a little bit more improved drawing might help people like me visualize better might help a little. Sure. Thank you. All right, so we finished that I think it's time to move on let me just find our next item of business I think our next item of business is just lots of pages here today. So we're going to hold a public meeting to and consider an application for a certificate of appropriateness in accordance with section 2.92 2.9.2 of the Denton Development Code to convert an existing detached garage into an accessory dwelling unit structure at 923 West Oak within the Oak history Hickory Historic District. The site is located on the south side of West Oak between Denton Street and Well Street. The COA is 20-0019 garage conversion. Ron, do you have a presentation for us? Yes Vice Chair, I will pull up the presentation. Again, hopefully you can hear me and hopefully you can see the presentation as introduced by the Vice Chair, it is for a garage conversion of an existing detached garage. We are proposing to convert that garage into an accessory dwelling unit. The proposed location of this property is within the Oak Hickory Historic District. And to be specific, it is located at 923 West Oak, south side of Oak again between Denton and Welch Street. This is a view of the home facing the front. Some of you may recognize this home. This was brought forward to the HLC for a consideration for tax incentive, as the applicant has provided some work to the home. For the particular COA application being considered today, it is for the conversion of the detached garage. Again, the owner is Chris Galanos. It is also a local historic landmark, also known as the Radcliffe Schultz House. The owner has provided or his contractor has provided a draft or floor plan that is of the conversion. You can see that the garage is being converted to occupy a kitchen area as well as a restroom area, and the remaining is living area for any occupant, for future occupants that is. The front garage door, and I will show on the next slide, will be removed and replaced with wood siding and the approximate location or square footage of the structure is approximately 216 square feet. The front garage door, as circled in red to your left, that garage door will be removed as proposed and replaced with the wood siding similar to what's surrounding the garage currently so that same wood siding would be placed to replace that garage door. The applicant or this application is brought forward to you, because in staff's opinion, the conversion will be visible from the street. Although, please note that the applicant has a gate that is on the west side of the home that when closed will not be visible. However, when the gate is open, the structure, the accessory dwelling in the future, or proposed accessory structure that is, will be visible if the gate is opened. One of the things that staff looks at to ensure that the applicant, the property owner, would be compliant with all other requirements, we make sure that the structure, the proposed accessory dwelling structure that is, would be compliant with the parking requirements, and the applicant has provided a site plan that illustrates where parking could be located within the site itself. For analysis of a historic landmark designation, we refer to the Texas State, I'm sorry, not the Texas State, but rather the Secretary of Interior Standards for Treatments of Historic Properties. Those standards were provided in your backup, primarily related to preservation, rehabilitation, restoration, and reconstruction, as well as Section 494C of the Denton Development Code, as again this is within the Oak Hickory Historic District, there are architectural standards as it relates to the following categories. With staff's analysis of the subject site, the staff is recommending approval of the conversion, as the details as well as the existing garage and future hopefully, if considered that is, by the edge you'll see an accessory dwelling unit does complement the single family primary home that's located there at 923 Oak Street. With that, I'll stand for any questions. So who's got questions for Ron, is the applicant online? I believe so, I know that he was provided or we were provided his contact information, I am looking to verify if he is on the call. While we wait, I can certainly answer any questions. I have a question. Yeah, raise my hand. So, they're going to remove the garage door and are they removing the trim as well around the garage door or are they just instilling between the trim? My understanding is that it's all going to be removed and installed with the siding that is consistent to the other sides of that garage. So there will not be, I guess, trim around there. And again, that's something that we can verify with the applicant but that is my understanding. That's true. He's on the call. That is Chris, if you could introduce yourself. Yes. Hello, everybody. My name is Chris Galanis and I have the privilege of being neighbors with Mary. Hi, Mary. And I'm surprised that you were planning this. Yes. And so yes, to answer that question, Ron, yes, we would remove the trim as well and it would just be the siding across where the garage door is now. But actually, Ron, allowed by code, I thought we were supposed to preserve all of the historical material and my understanding is removing that would not be preserving. In fact, it would be taking it away. This is so looking at the standards that we have the materials themselves if it's replaced with a similar material, then the trim is not replaced with similar materials. The trim. Okay, I did not look into the trim specifically but just deciding that would be replacing that match the house and so therefore, that's why staff recommended what we recommended. I have a picture of the final product of materials and things together. I may have missed it. I'm not sure that you would be able to do that because you would be repurposing that trim. Again, mind my discussion with the applicant is that the windows would not be replacing where the garage door is and if I'll share my presentation and illustrate where those windows would be located. To answer your question, Vice Chair Anderson, this is what's going to be replacing the garage door, the same siding material that is on the detached garage. And to answer your question, Angie, the windows are shown here. Windows one is facing the west side of the garage door which is above I believe the sink or right next to the sink and then one again on the west side over the, the toilet proposed toilet location. The garage itself door is generally in this location which is facing north on the property. And again, this is what the applicant submitted as what they're proposing the proposed accessory dwelling unit will be and where the windows would be located. What is this up here? The mini split. Yeah, I couldn't figure out what that was. That's the an air conditioning unit. Oh, thank you. I couldn't for the life of me see what that look and read it. And what are these dots down the center. That shows the pitch of the roof. The exist that the dash lines that's the existing picture that I know this these dash lines. Yes, that shows the existing picture the roof not those these the double dash. Chris over the dash over toward the right side. Yeah, this this dash on if you can see my arrow but they're right here. Chris Do you have the floor plan in front of you. Can you answer that question. Yeah, Ron, I'm looking at it now. I'm not quite sure what that is. He may have just been when he was showing us this explaining, you know, something else in the diagram. That's not a wall or down or anything I in the single lines are like she said just the pitch of the roof. The level line might show where that the drain lines from the sink in the toilet, perhaps underground might be that could be that could be that could be. Yeah, yeah. Do we have any information about the window material. We do. I saw the picture the window but I didn't see. Oh, so yeah so Chris, they were provided a photo or the illustration of the window. Can you talk a bit about what the type of material, the windows will be. Yes, it was. It was a pillow window. And you can see the dimensions there right above the toilet and above the kitchen sink. He's suggesting we put them there on the West wall one of the reasons we didn't put it where the garage door will be removed is that the bathroom right now in the floor plan, you know, so we didn't want a big window right there where the bathroom was. Yes. So, we, I asked him to choose a window that would be similar to the main house, historically significant to match the style. And he sent me he gave me a picture of this pillow window and said that it could be and two materials, it could be either vinyl, which he said looks more like the main house or it could be would either one, and that's more narrow he said it looks less historical than the vinyl but he gave me, he gave us either option. Would be nice to have that in the material that we're considering. In fact, I think is that not necessary to include that material on what's going on, if the commission would like to see the material be of a certain type, we're not really seeing that from the street but the neighbors might see it. Right, that's the that's the other consideration, the focus that I wanted to present to HLC is that it is going to be visible from the street, the front portion of it, if again when that gate is open. And just kind of a question had he considered just leaving the garage doors are kind of a interesting looking old historic garage door he considered just leaving those blocking them off and then you know he's obviously going to be putting some framing, and, you know, sheetrock on the inside. So that from the outside it would still just look the same they just wouldn't be operable anymore. It would save you some money probably not to have to replace all your siding, but have you considered that. Chris did you hear the question. Yes, sir I did know we hadn't, we hadn't considered that. The garage door that's there now is newer, not in the garage itself as a structure I'm sure is quite old but the garage door I believe with the last remodel that was done five years ago was replaced. Yeah, our plan was just to put siding there. Yeah, I was just like thinking that, like the look at it you know when when they share the picture that has the gate open from the street like I mean that that garage door especially if it's fairly newer only five years old it's a lot of exterior material that you know like you could just caulk it from the inside and you know do some, you know, furring strips and sheetrock and on the inside you wouldn't know is there but on the outside and still have the same appearance. You might you might check with your contractor, what do you think about that, but exactly it does kind of change the character dramatically to remove the chairman and take away the door. I remember that house actually I toured that house when it was originally for sale before it was bought by you Chris before it was bought by Miss Adams, because I considered buying it way back at our house. So I do remember the garage. As it looked and as I think the doors actually opened this way but that's what it looks like they matched with the doors like in that. To answer your question, you know, as far as staff, we did have a long discussion on that garage door specifically but as far as keeping it. That was not one of our, our discussion. We did talk about adding a window this and that but I think that's a great suggestion and it's friendly. Again just answer your question we did not discuss that as far as keeping it. Other comments in the room. I just have a question to Ron I mean, I guess it's a small enough structure, as per code normally I guess it looked like the window he has above the sink is a 3050 but it seems like very few windows for a dwelling. You know, I know, usually like a sleeping unit you need at least like 13050 but so I guess this would meet qualifications because you've got a door but you also have the sink. It's a studio too so there's there's the access or ingress and windows are provided. And of course, anything that the HLC, you know, decides on. Ultimately, if it were to go through the building department would have to approve it for the building code. Yes, because at least when I consider an accessory dwelling on my property. It was pretty stringent for a dwelling unit garage had one distance to the fence line and the property lines, but a dwelling unit have a significantly longer, larger distance which I don't believe is met their survey looks a little bit old I'm kind of surprised that people that live next door that are listed on that survey are not the same people. Buffy and her husband that don't own that anymore as far as interestingly I noted the person behind it is actually the guy we spoke to the owns the house behind is the guy who spoke to for our first COA, a small town. It is a small town. Do we have any other questions for Ron or for Chris. I guess, otherwise, shall we close this discussion to a close the opening part of the meeting. Thank you Chris. Thank you guys appreciate it. Or do we have any other comments from outside. We do have one comment from outside. There was one person that was against there they had registered to go against us. Do you have a reasoning. The reason is why is they feel like there's not enough parking already on the street. They would like to keep the area kind of the same they don't feel that it will keep the area the same they feel like it's more of a realtor move for the future. And really they just, they said the parking and just trying to keep it the same they feel like this is something that doesn't need to happen. Do we have the speaker is that we have a speaker was that just the comments from this. They had called in and they just said that they would like to leave a comment. Gotcha. Thank you. I do have a question on that run. Can you bring up the, where it has the driveway because even though they put how many cars they felt like parking there. It looked like it was single car getting by between the home and the fence right there where that state is, it is, and, and because of that I could see where the parking could be an issue because people would park on the street, instead of getting behind another person and that kind of thing so can you bring that up again so we could see that please sure let me. Let me pull that up real quick. Yes, I live with that every day. Three cars is more than is necessary in a line it's almost impossible to deal with. So, um, one of the things that we do look for and this is why it's shown here is really to address some of the concerns and I kind of anticipated some of these questions to illustrate where parking would be. But I do want to make note that the HLC. I know we're looking at the architectural requirements in some of the historic portions of it. Ultimately, the parking would have to be addressed to meet the requirements of the development code. But I just want to make that a note, so that when you're looking at this. It's not necessarily under the considerations that that I presented. I also add that there happens to be a house in my neighborhood. And that is exactly how the people who live there park, and they, you can't park on that particular street, and they all do line up, just exactly like this. Is this still where I can comment or is the open discussion already been closed. I believe it's been closed. Okay, I'm sorry. Can you bring up the picture of the actual dwelling with the. Let me pull that up as well. Is this the photo, your slide you're referring to Angie, oops, yes, that one. And then also the one that has the front of the garage, where you can see. It's a nice pretty summer picture when the trees are full of leaves. I don't think I've got any other than you do have one more. That one, that one right there. Looks like their neighbor, their adjacent neighbor has a. Is that a garage apartment that the adjacent neighbor has or that behind them. That's that's on the next door neighbors, a lot it's actually currently not used. There's a garage in the shop. Yes, it's a two story guy dwelling in it, and they managed to have it grandfathered in right up to the fence so it is within inches of fence. And so for wood structures I mean I'm not a fire marshal but it scares me. Are there other comments, do we have a motion I mean my only comments that I'm concerned about this changing the view at all we have a limited view of that. That driveway and the garage door, but it makes it look more garage like it doesn't change it. If the trim and the garage door stay. We can't see the windows from the streets of that. We discussed for us, but the view from the street is certainly in our preview. I'm having a little bit of trouble hearing Mary, I'm sorry I sat back a little bit too much. I mean, that might be the only concern that I can see that there's a couple of things that are a little deficient in this application. That the pictures are not really all there from all angles that that show us what's going to appear there. There's no rendering of that from that point of view. The other thing that is an issue for us is the changing of the garage door although the garage doors is modern it looks like what was there and having I see this every day, I, my house is right across the street. If Chris and Emily leave that will likely not be a mother-in-law suite it will likely be either a college student suite, or some kind of Airbnb type thing that I will look at for a long time. Is that not true of the one next door. No, it's empty it's totally unlivable it doesn't even have all the plumbing. There's no plumbing, and it's, it's there, it's a show. That can easily be changed. It would probably need an SEP to do that, just like this would need a what a specific use permit most likely even this one will need a specific use permit to do the dwelling on there we're just getting an HLC because it's, it's it's a suite on the thing, as I recall, planning and Sony said you had to have SEPs for this. And the cost is different. If you have it as a mother-in-law or as if you have it as just just to clarify that I just want to make note and Mary. Unfortunately, the, the code that was adopted in 2019. Was to approve a to use for single family homes, without an issue piece so, but they would need to comply with the building code so any conversion or any reusable building, especially for that's going to be used will need to comply with the building code and all other codes that we have in place. And it really, and it doesn't matter whether it's a relative living there are a non relative. No. Well, I think if I can interject real quick it's really the the architecture and the historicness of keeping that home. As it is obviously a local landmark designation and within the historic district as well. I would like to say I think that the concern for the person that wrote in about the parking. I think, I think we just we just need to discuss that because someone wrote in on it, but I believe there's adequate parking it showed that there. It may not be convenient, but we don't get to dictate that. So, I would just hate for someone not to think that we did not take their concern, but I don't think that that is part of this just that we need to vote on, but just for the record, I think it showed that there was adequate parking for it. And I think that there's some good ideas and I think when we have the option of we can, you know, we can approve we could deny or we can even do it with options or suggestions. And so that's kind of what I'm thinking I like the idea of keeping the garage door. I don't hear that anyone is subjected to what they're going to put in there and what they're using it for and I wish we could have a crystal ball to say you can do this down the road and camp, we can do that, you know, and so for what we have before us now. It looks like it's an alignment. And with those conditions I kind of would like it with the garage door in place. So sir anybody that is a more discussion or just one thing Mary Do you know if the garage door that's there now was like was it designed to look like the original garage door or I mean was it, I don't know that for a fact, although somebody in the neighborhood surely knows I know that it looks very similar to what was there. Lisa was was into trying to make things look similar. And I do remember the doors they were there were flimsy kind of doors but that was the kind of door of the period they were built in even though they don't open that way they look like they do open this way. Okay, thanks. Next question. I just just again want to mention and I think you've mentioned it before that your options. You know as far as the items so so our options are to accept as it is to accept with conditions to deny, or to continue to continuous means that we kind of ignored and if we don't deal with it and how many days wrong. 75 days it's changed to 75 days, but we if we need to, it would be something we would schedule at our next meeting. So, does anybody have a motion to match one of those. Somebody was gonna say something melody. I was just gonna make a motion. Okay. I was gonna make a motion that we approve the request. As written. Yes. Is there a second. I would. I don't want a second. Can we approve it with a condition that they explore the option of the brought you know, maintaining the garage door and just framing from the inside. I can amend it but yet. I think if we amend it we have to have a second before we can amend it or do we just have a friendly amendment added to it. There's a there's a main motion, and it doesn't. For lack of second and then you could have a new motion. Okay, or someone could propose. A second, an amendment after it's has a second. So those are the two options either it fails for lack of second, or it gets a second to then you could do amendments to that motion. All right, so is there a second or do we want to have to have a new motion. I'll do a five minute count five second countdown. Five, four, three, two, one. Okay, the emotion that Lenny has put forward has failed as somebody wants to put forward a second. conditional acceptance regarding the garage door. Evan wants to do. Let me see if I can rephrase that Evan moves that we should do a conditional acceptance which is the part B, given that the garage door facade should stay as it is. Did I got that correct. Yes, I didn't quite hear the last what did you say, the garage door does what that the garage door doesn't change that it maintains that work of garages that did I paraphrase you correctly. Or do you want to use that's correct. I'll second that. Okay, five seconds. Now can we have any discussion. Then does that mean that he can still replace the front. But just with that design, or he must he keep the door itself. That was my understanding was to keep the same garage door, that was my understanding, but if I'm correct, please correct me. Was, was your motion to approve with condition that the existing garage door remain the same, or was it to have separate the same to that can't hear you. Either that it remained the same or looks substantially similar to the way it looks now. So can, can we do a. I have a discussion question with that. Yes. Do we know if that garage door is wood or metal. Probably metal. Do we, we probably vinyl or even, I'm guessing this vinyl it's probably neither of the above. We we don't I don't know, we can certainly ask the, the applicant if that's something that the commission would like to do. Yeah, because I think Lenny brings up a very good point. Because the original door was probably would it was originally. And so now if we've gone to vinyl and we're saying hey you have to keep vinyl. Does anybody want to make a friendly amendment to the, to the motion. See, I think if what we're after is the look that can be done easily with wood. I don't know what he's getting me a little crazy. I think the suggestion was, you know, like I, I think he needs to discuss with his contractor. I mean, I would, if that was me and if it was my home, I would just keep the existing door that's there rather than spend money to try and match something to look like it just keep the existing door and look at securing it and you know waterproofing it, and then frame from the inside, I mean I think that would be that he's going to have to probably put some framing up on the interior of the entire piece anyway in order to put this, you know, installation and sheetrock so it would just be a matter of securing and waterproofing the existing the word that is there. And, you know, so I would think it would, it would be a waste of time to like try and recreate something new, like to maybe make it look like what's already there even though that's not the original door. That might be easier actually than trying to retrofit on the inside of that door with sheetrock and all. They have to do that whether they whether they put the siding on the building or whatever if they take the door out, then they have to cut out that you know they're going to have to frame in where there's going to be an empty opening they'll have to come back and they have to put new framing in on the inside and outside then they're going to have to waterproof and put sheathing on the outside and then put the, you know, the swaps up and then they have to go on the inside and put sheetrock so they have to do that whether they take the door out or not. If they take the door in place, what they would do is just kind of, you know, nail it in, secure it in, and they're still going to have to frame that opening and put sheetrock and insulation, so that it can be an interior space as a bathroom because then they'll probably also put, you know, tile or some type of waterproof material to make it a bathroom. So, that's what I was just suggesting because that, you know, that maintains the, the look that they, you know, like, it looks like it was a garage, it doesn't really matter whether it is a garage or not anymore. A lot of those detached garages are not used as a garage that they still look like one, you know, and I, as opposed to just having the garage completely gone and then it just looks like you know that you would just have siding that matched the house, and then it just looks like a box with a door in it in the backyard. So, that was just my suggestion to keep it visually from the front, looking like it looks right now. I mean, my desire would be that it looks the same whether or not the same garage doors there doesn't matter, it just looks like, like that, substantially similar so I wonder if we make that caveat, do I need to make a friendly amendment to that? I mean, I just said keep the door and that means they're stuck with it. If you if you would like to begin the motion motioner and then Mac, if I'm speaking out of turn please let me know if the motioner would like to restate his motion with the condition, that would help, help us understand what's being voted on. Right. Sure. I move and this, I want to thank Janelle for the idea in the first place. I move to conditionally accept the application, and the condition being that the garage door remain or at least the look of the garage door remain. Second that. We don't have this, we've already got a second though right? Go ahead and get a second for that. Okay. So any more discussion or are we ready to vote? Hearing no discussion, can I call for a vote? I'll start down with Evan since we know you're the motioner I'll start with you. I vote for the amendment to keep the look of the garage the same melody. Angie. Lenny. And it was, if I understand it is a look, so he doesn't have to keep that garage door. If it's better to do it in the correct material if you change it. Aye. I say aye. Aye. Okay, we are unanimous, I can stand that. Thank you. Thank you all. Do we have. Just trying to think if we have any other. I don't see any other business. That's all that we have as far as consideration or agenda items. There is the concluding items though if you have any. Do we have, I didn't see any. Let's see. It's not on my page. I have page 44 so I've missed that. If you go, if you go, I'm sorry, go up to the agenda. Oh, sorry. Let's see, here we go. Our concluding items section A. Correct. Let's see that under section 551.042. Texas open meetings act's response to inquiries from historical landmark commission or the public with specific factual information or recitation policy or accept your proposal take place. Let's look at section 551.5 of the Texas open meetings act provide reports about the items of community interests regarding which no action will be taken to include expression of thanks, congratulations, condolences, information regarding holiday schedules, an honorary or solitary recognition. If there is an individual, public employee or other citizen or reminder about an upcoming event organized or sponsored by the governing body, information regarding the social, ceremonial or community event organized or sponsored by any entity other than the governing board that was intended or is scheduled to be attended by a member of the governing body or an official or employee of the municipality or an announcement involving an imminent threat to the public health and safety of people in the municipality that has arisen after posting of the agenda. The historical landmark committee commission reserved the right to adjourn into the closed meeting on any item on its open meeting agenda consists of chapter 551 of the Texas government code as amended or is allowed by law. And do we have any other additions to this? Did you have announcements? I do have one announcement if the commission does not have. I just want to let the commission know that the city has hired a historic preservation officer. She will start in February, first part of February. So we do have a meeting in February. We'll certainly introduce her. If not, we'll certainly send out some some notification or information about her so that you all know and get to get to know her before her first meeting. So I just want to make that announcement that we did hire an HPO. Any other business, new business, old business, new business. If not, can I have a. I don't think we don't need a motion now. When is our next meeting? February. It's second Monday, first Monday. February the 8th. That is correct, February 8th. Well, you'll be you'll be real safe out there. Yes. Thank you. We'll see everyone in February, hopefully. Bye.